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[Andy]

Melodeon or Stradella bass?

I have been playing B/C box for about 15 months. Mainly Scottish traditional.
Feel I am making OK progress with treble side but all I am doing with bass side is grabbing chords when I can – generally managing to hit the appropriate chords but would like to up my game a bit here.
Recently had a brief shot at the stradella bass on a BCC#.

Feel this is a bit of a decision time-
A) Keep going as at present.
B) Don’t bother about the bass side; concentrate on getting the most from the treble side.
C) Stick in and learn to get more out of the 8 button melodeon bass.   
Or
D) Make the transition to stradella – and possibly BCC# at the same time.

Although the stradella is not necessarily easier, and at this point seems harder to me, it also seems like cheating – somehow wrong to me. This of course could be some totally irrational prejudice on my behalf.

If there is anyone out there I aspire to play like it would If be Fergie, but this does not help as his earlier stuff is B/C/C# with stradella, then a change to B/C with 8 bass, but the 8 bass is not a conventional melodeon bass – I understand it is unisonoric (same tone on press and draw) chords only.

Although I know that some B/C/C# players consider the Gaelic IVs (96 bass) to be compact and light I find it to be big and heavy – much as I like the sound and treble action.

Any thoughts appreciated.

[Bill Young]

I'm surprised you haven't had any response to this yet. My advice is, change to Stradella bass asap. That's what I did a year after starting with BC and I've never regretted it. It's probably no accident that virtually every player of Scottish traditional music from William Hannah in the 1920s, through Jimmy Shand from the 1930s, to the present day has used/uses Stradella bass. Don't be put off by the number of buttons in the Stradella bass. I think it's actually easier to play than melodeon basses, and with far more capability. There's no contest really. Consider taking 2-3 lessons from a piano accordion teacher to get you started with it.

Fergie's arrangement of 8 'chords only' is readily available on the Stradella bass, and much more besides (remember he's using them essentially to beat out the rhythm; playing in a band, he has a keyboard and sometimes a piano accordion to provide more comprehensive bass accompaniment).

If you think the Hohner Gaelic is too heavy, I suggest you consider some bodybuilding! Seriously, though, there are quite a few Stradella bass options out there. A Hohner Double Ray 12-bass like mine is a mini-Stradella bass. That's also available on the 3-voice Double Ray Deluxe. Most Hohner Trichord BCC#s have 12 Stradella bass (watch out for ones with melodeon basses). There is a neat Notturni 2-row BC; it's like a Paolo Soprani 9-coupler, but with 50 basses (5 x 10). Last heard of there were two on the Isle of Lewis (I used to own one); there are others somewhere as 10-12 were made. There are several types of BCC# 80-bass instruments about - Paolo Soprani, Super Salas, Cooperativa, Chiusaroli, Paramount, Borsini, Giustozzi and, of course, the new Manfrini Aria. In 96-bass you have the Hohner Gaelic and a Paolo Soprani. Then there's the main instrument for Scottish traditional music, the Hohner Shand Morino, which comes in 105, 117 and 120 bass versions. (Others this size are available as well - Guerrini, Fantini, Borsini). There will be other makes I've overlooked.

I'd suggest that you don't persist with an 8-bass BC; you'll only get frustrated trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Several friends and I started out as you have done; funny how many of us have ended up with Shand Morinos!

[Theo]

There is also the older BC Hohner Organola with IIRC 48 bass

[Bill Young]

There is also the older BC Hohner Organola with IIRC 48 bass

Jimmy Shand used a 2-row Hohner L'Organola (36-bass) for his first recordings in 1933. He replaced it with a 3-row 80-bass L'Organola in 1934. So any of the former still extant will be at least 75 years old.

I also forgot to mention the Casali BCC# 48 bass.

[Owen Woods]

And the Wilkinson 24 bass!

[george garside]

Agree with Bill. Stradella is much better  on BC  or BCC# boxes .  There is a trichord just come up for sale on the linked accordion website.

george

[george garside]

Agree with Bill. Stradella is much better  on BC  or BCC# boxes .  There is a trichord just come up for sale on the linked accordion website.

george

the trichord us on this  forum as well

g

[deltasalmon]

Agree with Bill. Stradella is much better  on BC  or BCC# boxes .  There is a trichord just come up for sale on the linked accordion website.

george

Stradella is much better on a BC as well? I've never tried but was curious. I wondered would it even be worth it with only 8 bass keys?

Which of these would be the best idea?

• a Bass and chord for 4 different notes, GDAE perhaps
• one bass/chord key for 8 different notes
• stick with melodeon bass for only 8 keys

[Anahata]

I think the idea of Stradella on a B/C is to have more than 8 buttons...

[deltasalmon]

I think the idea of Stradella on a B/C is to have more than 8 buttons...

Oh I guess I meant the stradella like unisonoric reeds. Likethe trichords with the mini stradella like 12 button bass

[Pat.]

I use standard 8 base when I play B/C,playing Irish music ,but when it comes to Schottish music I play B/C/C#with stradella base as to me it is essential when playing solo. because of the lift and expression/mood that is available that is only available with stradella,It is great for waltzes of all sorts and the capabilities are endless ,though you you have to be very handy to get the best out of it.

[Andy]

Many thanks to all who have responded – great to get experienced perspectives.

Only thing I am still wondering about is the 12 stradella bass - Worthwhile or so limited that you will be wanting an upgrade in weeks?

Bearing in mind I am talking here about a main box. I can see why some folk would have them as a cheaper, compact, lightweight box in addition to a larger box.

Thanks again.

[george garside]

It depends in a way where you are coming from    and  perhaps  what your expectations are.

 In my view  12 stradella  provides a vast improvement on 8 melodeon bass  (eg hohner trichord or double ray de lux) .  As to expectations if you want  to be able to provide rhythmic accompanyment with half decent harmony in CGDA and a ;bit of something for F & E  12 bass will do the job very nicely and should not be viewed as something of an inferior nature.  On the other hand  if you prefer to wallow in wonderous chords , perhaps  giving more emphasis to the bass than the treble  you need at least 4  vertical rows of bass and preferably 5. x  however many diagonal rows you need to cover the keys  you want to play in. eg 12x4 , (48),  8 x4 (32)  8x5 (40) or very useful 12 x5 (60) and if none of those will do  forget portability and light weight on the shoulders and go for a full 120.

Another way of looking at it is that you can do a great deal with 12 bass  providing you don't wast time agonising over what you can't do!

george

[Bill Young]

Only thing I am still wondering about is the 12 stradella bass - Worthwhile or so limited that you will be wanting an upgrade in weeks?

Bearing in mind I am talking here about a main box. I can see why some folk would have them as a cheaper, compact, lightweight box in addition to a larger box.

You've probably hit the nail on the head there. If you take a look at what boxes are being used (in public) for Scottish music, the vast majority are nearly full-sized instruments with 80 or more basses. That's what most players graduate to, sooner or later. There is probably a large number of BC instruments in the country, but the majority are lying about at home, just used for the odd tune now and again. (With the exception of Fergie, and an enclave of 2-row players in Lewis and Harris). Seeing a 2-row played in public, e.g. at an accordion & fiddle club, is regarded as a bit of a novelty.

The trouble with George's selection of smaller Stradella bass options is that there are few, or no, instruments like that. If you don't want to go too big, consider one of the many varieties of 80-bass BCC# instruments available. But there's not much difference to the Hohner Gaelic which you've tried, which many players have used as the step just before their Shand Morino.

[george garside]

The gaelic is not  overly heavy for a 96 bass box and is , I think a bit lighter than an 80 bass paulo soprani - to me the gaelic handles better ( and easier than the poalo)  It may be that it just feels massive when coming from an 8 bass 2 row and it would just be a matter of getting used to it .  That of course assumes that you are reasonably fit and have no ailments that it would exacerbate eg some back or shoulder problems , angina, etc etc. as these may limit the time you can play for without discomfort.  I have angina which effectively limits me to my
48 bass  casali as being comfortable.  My recently aquired 48 bass menghini  is  heavier than the casali  and is just that bit to heavy for comfort.  That is why I have aquired a 12 bass trichord  as a long term back stop so to speak.

So  a reasonably fit person   should adapt to a big BCC# from a BC but it will take a bit of getting used to.  Anybody less fit  woould be better borowing one for a few days if that is possible, or at least have several  longish 'goes' on one before making a decision.

george

[Theo]

Melodeon or Stradella bass?

Anyone want a 32 bass Hohner Club ll/Erika.  I may be able to supply one shortly.

[Jono]

You could try a 3 row CBA, 48 bass, or 72 bass, or more. But I don't know how suitable this type of accordion is for Scottish music.

[Sage Herb]

You could try a 3 row CBA, 48 bass, or 72 bass, or more. But I don't know how suitable this type of accordion is for Scottish music.

Didn't Jimmy Shand Junior play a CBA? Tell me if I'm mistaken.
Steve

[Bill Young]

You could try a 3 row CBA, 48 bass, or 72 bass, or more. But I don't know how suitable this type of accordion is for Scottish music.

Didn't Jimmy Shand Junior play a CBA? Tell me if I'm mistaken.
Steve

There are umpteen players using CBA for Scottish music, though mostly full size ones. Yes, Jimmy Shand Jnr plays (not past tense) a CBA. Other frequently heard players include Gordon Shand (no relation), Johnny Duncan, Ian Holmes. The late Bobby MacLeod moved to CBA, and you can't get more Scottish than his music.

[Jono]

I've decided to settle on a 2 row melodeon and a smallish CBA. These two should potentially open up a lot of styles.

I've got a 96 bass Hohner (b system) but find it quite a bit too big and clunky. I much prefer playing my old pressed wood 2 row. Nice to have all those chords to explore though. Still, some people prefer playing the more complex chromatic types of melodeons, with 3 rows and so on, instead of a CBA.