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[patrickcavanagh]

Johnny O'Leary of County Kerry, Ireland, played a number of different C#/D accordions, but it seems the one I see him with most often in photos and film is a red Paolo with a distinctive spiderwebby sort of grille, large all-caps letters, and a red badge at the front corner. As far as I can recall, I haven't seen this model played by anyone else. Do any of you know anything about when this model was produced, why it seems to be relatively rare, or any other info about it that might be interesting?

[pgroff]

Hi Patrick,

I would think this is a 1960s box.*  Sean Garvey of All About Accordions seems to have a similar one for sale with a similar date (scroll down a bit):

http://allaboutaccordions.com/allabout-product.php?parent_id=241

My buddy Joe Joyce (R. I. P.) of Boston had a similar one also, but in BC, and I think his family still has it.  Very nice sounding box when well tuned.  If the first link below doesn't work, try the second:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151345085286202&set=t.1132978311&type=3&theater

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/obituaries/articles/2007/07/27/joseph_m_joyce_captured_the_sound_spirit_of_ireland_on_his_accordion/

PG

* Edited to add:  Now I'm not sure I agree with those sellers who have claimed that boxes with these features date from the 1960s.  Maybe "ca 1970s" is more accurate, as Adam suggested.  See comments below on August 18, 2015.

[Adam-T]

Hmm, looks like an Elite-1 which is very much like my Baffetti Irish-1, I`d say the red bellows frames would give it away to be more late 70s than 60s as does the Grille (also they went to a scrolly script in the early-mid 80s if I remember rightly) .. they didn`t always call it the Elite-1 (it was a later naming which the box still has whoever makes it now) , baffetti made this box for P/S for a while in the 80s .....

I could be wrong of course (you know far more about these things than I do Paul) but I`ve not seen Paolos much earlier than 1980 with red bellows frames

Mines `s D/G made late 80s here it is with the Victoria badged version of the same box - they`re 4 voice LMMM , the coupler takes out the low reed of course - nice`n`wet :)

[pgroff]

Hi Adam,

I'm not a Paolo expert!  I didn't start paying attention to them until 30 years ago so I wasn't taking notes when these boxes were new, and don't have any catalogs or other solid dated documentary evidence prior to the 1980s.  Just passing on hearsay from players older than myself.  I'd expect Mr. Garvey to know however.  I think Dennis Galvin had a B/C in the style of the original post also, and again I remember that as being a 60s box.  I also think I remember being told that where the buttons are yellowed, they had originally been white before aging.

Here are a couple of Paolo Soprani accordions of various types, that I think are probably pre-1970, that do have red trim on the bellows frames  (also see pics below):

http://acordeon-anipas.blogspot.com/2010/11/fisarmonica-paolo-soprani-fondatore.html
http://uk.picclick.com/Stunning-RARE-PAOLO-SOPRANI-Accordion-Concertina-Piano-In-390639254982.html
http://images.quebarato.com.br/T440x/belo%20acordeon%20crom%20aacute%20tico%20paolo%20soprani%20120%20vermelho%20canoinhas%20sc%20brasil__36BF38_1.jpg

And here's a 9-coupler box dated 1964 by the seller, that has block lettering, a partly-similar grille pattern, and small round badge shape like the photo in the OP. True, this does have black bellows frames, and the small round badge is blue; note yellowed buttons as with Joe Joyce's box shown above:

http://worcester-ma.americanlisted.com/music-instruments/paolo-soprani-button-accordion-950-worcester-ma-_20283711.html

PG

[KLR]

I've seen those yellow buttons before - my guess is that material is Catalin, which is this junk they used to use on the mountings of Scottish bagpipes - brilliant white at first, but quickly turns orange.  Here's a page with pics:  Henderson, Peter « Island Bagpipe

[Adam-T]

As I say Paul , you may not claim to be an expert on these things but you`re bound to know more than I do . like most we can only go by our own experiences and I`d not seen red bellows frames on the diatonics much earlier the 1980 - my experience is limited of course and always ready to learn more - :)  .

I wonder when the red frames came in , that 64 9 coupler has black ones . I don`t know about the PAs and CBAs or what colour frames they have. all interesting anyway

[pgroff]

Hi Adam,

Again, I just don't know but I would have said the box in the OP was 60's.  Maybe 70s. A lot of times the stories that come down with instruments are very inaccurate. But I suspect someone out there knows exactly when the late Mr. O'Leary bought that accordion and whether new or second-hand. 

Re: the red trim, the two attached photos of Paolo button accordions that I took myself show boxes from the 40s or early 50s, that I think are very original (trim not replaced).  One of the PA pics that I linked is also presented as a 40s box.  IMO red trim on Paolo bellows frames has been around for a long time, but that may vary depending on what factory actually made the box and where they were exported.  Your experience might reflect a representative sample of the boxes exported to the UK.  I think that red trim and black trim overlapped chronologically.

PG

[Adam-T]

Yep - looking at those early boxes with red trim, it would then seem they used red early on and there was a phase when black trim was used and then reverted back to red - the 9 coupler (pre-elite-II) I had was early 80s with red trim and large script lettering, the block lettering certainly was around through the 70s though I don`t know how much earlier .. 

The Baffetti I have is late 80s (the paolo badged ones are identical bar naming and grille style) so it would seem that at some stage they decided to go back to red, the design of the box inside and out seems to be a copy of the original two coupler 4 voice Paolos ..

I wish there was a definitive source of info on the history of Paolo Sopranis from when the family`s involvement ceased through all the different makers and owners of the name to this day . I have always been very interested in this, since long before I even actually played a melodeon .

[pgroff]

Hi all,

Reviving this thread because I have a near-mint example here now of a very similar accordion. Similar that is to the Johnny O'Leary box, maybe identical (except for the key) to the Joe Joyce box. So I'd be happy to field questions about the construction details of the one here. 

This example is a C#/D and near mint including case, straps, etc etc. Playing and sounding really nice too, with original LMMM musette at A 440. And -- though you have to remain skeptical of owners' memories -- this accordion is supposed to have been bought in 1965. I've asked a couple of experts whether that date can be accurate.  Anyway I really like this red box for the Cooley tunes as well as polkas, slides, and more, even though it doesn't have the classic body style or the wooden soundboard of some of the  Paolo models from the early 60s and earlier. Great keyboard!  Not too heavy for a 4 voice box at 5.1 kg, and it helps that it's very well balanced, dead airtight, with flat reed leathers.

PG
 

[gettabettabox]

nice box.
it appears to be in very good condition and that's supported by your assessment of the inside.
it would be interesting to know what the offsets of the treble reeds are?
enjoy the polkas!

[KLR]

My blue badge Paolo B/C/C# with "Italia" and other hallmarks of the late 50s has an aluminum soundboard for the treble, wood for the bass, for what that's worth.  A buyer's guide to Paolos would really be a good thing, we have those (in a way) for Pokerworks (Owen Woods) and Coronas (Peter the German guy) and those command lower prices in general - especially when the Paolo in question is grey.

What a guide it would be, though.  I was trying to figure out what era my grille was indicative of and about lost it, there are almost an infinite number of variants they used. 

[pgroff]

My blue badge Paolo B/C/C# with "Italia" and other hallmarks of the late 50s has an aluminum soundboard for the treble, wood for the bass, for what that's worth.  A buyer's guide to Paolos would really be a good thing, we have those (in a way) for Pokerworks (Owen Woods) and Coronas (Peter the German guy) and those command lower prices in general - especially when the Paolo in question is grey.

What a guide it would be, though.  I was trying to figure out what era my grille was indicative of and about lost it, there are almost an infinite number of variants they used.

Hi KLR,

The wooden soundboard Paolos definitely overlapped in time with the metal soundboard ones. Paolo was using aluminum back before WW2 for some types accordions.  There are small, early 1950s D/C# Paolos with aluminum soundboards that were made at the same time as some of the wooden soundboard BC and DD# boxes.  I think some of the 2-row, 2-coupler red Paolo BC boxes continued to have wooden soundboards well into the 1960s. But I have the impression that the large PS button accordions and those with more couplers were more likely to have switched to aluminum soundboards by the 1950s.

The models discussed in this thread may not be the most favored these days but the one here at present shows that they can be a lot of fun to play when in nearly-new condition.

PG

[pgroff]

Hi all,

Reviving this thread because I have a near-mint example here now of a very similar accordion. Similar that is to the Johnny O'Leary box, maybe identical (except for the key) to the Joe Joyce box. So I'd be happy to field questions about the construction details of the one here. 

And -- though you have to remain skeptical of owners' memories -- this accordion is supposed to have been bought in 1965. I've asked a couple of experts whether that date can be accurate. 

Well, Martin Connolly and Billy McComiskey both think that this C#D 2 coupler box (photos posted above) is from the 1970s - in Martin's opinion, from the mid to late 1970s. That dating would line up with Adam's opinion earlier in this thread. It does mean though that there are a lot of erroneous earlier dates being proposed by sellers,* either through faulty memory or wishful thinking.  I had been suspecting that the conflict in opinion might be due to some shops continuing to sell earlier models (as "new old stock") in the 1960s, after these later models had also begun to be made and sold.

PG

*Here's another example, a 9 coupler box with grille and other features similar to the boxes discussed in this thread. The seller (possibly on the advice of tuner Brendan Mulhaire?) was claiming it's from the mid to late 1960s:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F10-9k8Iim0

[triskel]

Here is very solid evidence that Johnny already had that box in 1973 anyway - this picture of him, playing with Julia Clifford and Denis Murphy, is from the Fleadh Cheoil that year in Listowel. (They're playing outside the doorway of the Bank of Ireland, on The Square.)

Indeed you can see them (and the box) in action, in that very same spot, at the opening of the Fleadh 73 documentary: Fleadh Cheoil Listowel (1973) Cartlann TV50 RTE

I'll see if I can find any older images of him with it...