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Author Topic: Sticking keys on Marc Savoy 1 row : Climate related ?  (Read 4286 times)

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pbsalt

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Sticking keys on Marc Savoy 1 row : Climate related ?
« on: November 03, 2013, 09:41:09 AM »

A few weeks ago one of the buttons  on the right hand of my recent 2nd hand purchase of a Marc Savoy G  1 row 4 stop  started sticking so that the lever didn't return &  one of the notes kept sounding. Now 4 of 5 of the RH  buttons are sticking.  I wondered if this has anything to do with the onset of Autumn in Scotland  and cold, damp weather and the fact that perhaps this box is configured for the warmer climes of Louisiana ?  Would keepingthe box at a warmer temperature help ( e.g in the airing cupboard. )   

Are boxes set up to cope with different climates ?   Has anyone else experienced this in the UK ?

 
 
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Paul
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Bob Ellis

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Re: Sticking keys on Marc Savoy 1 row : Climate related ?
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2013, 10:57:33 AM »

I have had a second-hand Marc Savoy box in D for about two years now and I live in Yorkshire, high up in the central Pennines which also has a cold wet climate. I have had no problems at all with the box despite the fact that our house is not very warm (stone walls that are not suitable for cavity wall insulation).

Perhaps your problem has another cause. If it were me, I would ask Theo or Rees (who specialises in Cajun boxes) to take a look at it.
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rees

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Re: Sticking keys on Marc Savoy 1 row : Climate related ?
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2013, 11:07:19 AM »

It sounds as if the levers have expanded in the slots. The airing cupboard trick might work for a while but the problem will probably re-occur.
You (or an accordion mechanic) really need to take the keyboard apart and lightly sand the sides of the levers or the slots.
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triskel

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Re: Sticking keys on Marc Savoy 1 row : Climate related ?
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2013, 04:58:54 PM »

... perhaps this box is configured for the warmer climes of Louisiana ?

Warmer yes, but the humidity can be extreme:Ph

Quote
Are boxes set up to cope with different climates ?

In theory they maybe should be, though that could involve some serious humidity control in the maker's workshop, but in practice they're usually built without any thought of them ending up anywhere else. 

Quote
Has anyone else experienced this in the UK ?

I've never had a bit of bother with the D box I bought off Marc 5 years ago, and I live 2 minutes walk from the Atlantic Ocean, on the West Coast of Clare - where it also rains rather a lot  ::)

But I've had plenty of trouble with boxes made in Klingenthal - which is in the mountains of Central Europe and has an extremely dry climate.

Rees' suggestion is ultimately the "best fix" if it is wood on wood that's causing the problem - though you might also find you'll get some binding of the key lever on its metal axle rod, which will need relieving, or it might be worth checking if (with the change in the weather) some of the buttons have started to rub in their holes, and aren't allowing the pallets to close properly - I've got the latter problem to fix on a Klingenthal 4-stopper at the moment.

blafleur

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Re: Sticking keys on Marc Savoy 1 row : Climate related ?
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2013, 05:27:51 PM »

Before you get too drastic, check to make sure it's not the buttons catching on the bottom edge of the button hole, this is very common.  The next most common thing I've seen is the axle hole swelling and grabbing the axle.  Marc usually makes his rocker arm slots with enough play that that usually isn't the problem, but could be. 

I say check the button, because not only is it most common, it's easiest to fix, just take a sharp hobby knife and trim as needed.  The other two scenarios require removing the keyboard, springs, and axle.  And the buttons prevent the rocker arm from being completely removed without removing the button, but if you're careful, you can usually take care of the axle hole or rocker sides without it.

boxcall

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Re: Sticking keys on Marc Savoy 1 row : Climate related ?
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2013, 05:34:20 PM »

sounds similar to the problem I had in this thread http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,13438.0.html
after pulling apart and cleaning the rod, lever and slots I've had no problems.
I did not have the need to sand sides of levers on mine.
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pbsalt

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Re: Sticking keys on Marc Savoy 1 row : Climate related ?
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2013, 08:05:54 PM »

Thanks for the advice - I'll get an expert fettler to take a look.

How do boxes survive hot climates ? I was a bit nervous driving around England in temperatures of 30+ degrees Centrigrade this summer & stuffed the boot full of damp newspaper to try & keep the temperature down.  Recently a reed block fell out of my Saltarelle which might just be the result of old age but I was inclined to blame it on the hot summer. 

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Paul
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Doug Barr

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Re: Sticking keys on Marc Savoy 1 row : Climate related ?
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2013, 12:04:23 AM »

I have also had to pull the rod and clean it....no problems since
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melod-ian

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Re: Sticking keys on Marc Savoy 1 row : Climate related ?
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2013, 05:25:50 PM »

I'm having the same problem again. This happened the same time last year when the weather turned.
The airing cupboard was the solution last year. I might need to take it further this time
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triskel

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Re: Sticking keys on Marc Savoy 1 row : Climate related ?
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2013, 06:18:36 PM »

I'm having the same problem again. This happened the same time last year when the weather turned.

I'm afraid there always have been these problems with wooden lever mechanisms - it's why Hohner started to use their all-metal mechanism (the same one they still use) around 1929-30.

Quote from: c.1929-30 Hohner Catalogue
Our latest invention
(patent applied for)

The Hohner keyboard and simplified bass mechanism.

A new and accurate mechanism for the treble and bass parts which is of tremendous durability and absolutely unaffected by weather influences ... It is quite impossible for the keys to scrape against each other or to jam.

My emphasis in red.

melod-ian

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Re: Sticking keys on Marc Savoy 1 row : Climate related ?
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2013, 06:48:02 PM »

And  DO NOT USE LUBRICANTS.. Some bright spark said try furniture polish - as it's wood on wood... DONT. Took me ages to clean all that out.
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Ken Watson

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Re: Sticking keys on Marc Savoy 1 row : Climate related ?
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2013, 07:46:28 PM »

A few weeks ago one of the buttons  on the right hand of my recent 2nd hand purchase of a Marc Savoy G  1 row 4 stop  started sticking so that the lever didn't return &  one of the notes kept sounding. Now 4 of 5 of the RH  buttons are sticking.

I used to own three Acadians, all bought 2nd hand (one is now owned by Bob Ellis).
My 'G' Acadian used to stick a bit... but I did used to play it outside in the winter for Grimsby Morris Men dancing 'Border' morris!

Does yours have an 'owners name' on the treble end?
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boxcall

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Re: Sticking keys on Marc Savoy 1 row : Climate related ?
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2013, 08:48:41 PM »

I'm having the same problem again. This happened the same time last year when the weather turned.
The airing cupboard was the solution last year. I might need to take it further this time
I did not find it very hard to take apart ( after a good yank to get the rod out)  and put back together.
A typical cajun keyboard with springs on the bottom might take a little more work?  and as Bryan pointed out the buttons would have to come off to really work on them. I really like the set up on the Beltuna I have , remove the face plate from keyboard 6 screws then loosen and remove two screws that hold keyboard to face plate of box. once screws are removed there's nothing holding back spring tension so you need to release slowly. then all that was left was pull pin and it all came apart and it was even number  (:)
I also think if addressed while your having the problem and while the box is still in those conditions it's best, as carpenters know you acclimate wood to it's environment before you install.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2013, 12:12:44 AM by boxcall »
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pbsalt

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Re: Sticking keys on Marc Savoy 1 row : Climate related ?
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2013, 04:53:02 PM »

Quote
Does yours have an 'owners name' on the treble end?

Quote
Hi Ken, - No  owners name - Just Acadian at the top and Made in Lousiana at the bottom.
I've found all the replies v helpful - looks like others have had the same problem & the reply from Triskel explains why I never had that problem with my 1 row 4 stop Hohner.

I'm about to go and get it looked at by an expert repairer - just hopingthat it won't require an expensive overhaul every Autumn !   

Paul

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Paul
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triskel

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Re: Sticking keys on Marc Savoy 1 row : Climate related ?
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2013, 05:34:57 PM »

I'm about to go and get it looked at by an expert repairer - just hoping that it won't require an expensive overhaul every Autumn !   

Once you get it properly "sorted" (under Autumn conditions) you (hopefully) shouldn't need to have it seen to again.

melod-ian

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Re: Sticking keys on Marc Savoy 1 row : Climate related ?
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2013, 07:40:32 PM »

Successfully sorted mine by sanding down the levers and slots today ..
 I say 'successfully' lost a spring pin to the carpet, and I've pushed the axel a bit far back in, so next time could be difficult.
Must say the whole action feels much more responsive on all keys now
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triskel

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Re: Sticking keys on Marc Savoy 1 row : Climate related ?
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2013, 07:56:25 PM »

Successfully sorted mine by sanding down the levers and slots today ..

Glad to hear it, and I discovered today that the Klingenthal box I was having trouble with has miraculously "fixed" itself... again!  ::)

pbsalt

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Re: Sticking keys on Marc Savoy 1 row : Climate related ?
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2013, 09:24:36 AM »

Quote
Glad to hear it, and I discovered today that the Klingenthal box I was having trouble with has miraculously "fixed" itself... again! 
Quote
Mine also "sorted itself out" - just after I'd arranged to have it inspected. I'll just have to cosset it and keep it warm .
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Paul
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triskel

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Re: Sticking keys on Marc Savoy 1 row : Climate related ?
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2013, 05:45:08 PM »

... I discovered today that the Klingenthal box I was having trouble with has miraculously "fixed" itself... again!  ::)

Spoke too soon, there's one sticking again today... 

Who needs a barometer?  ::)

boxcall

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Re: Sticking keys on Marc Savoy 1 row : Climate related ?
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2013, 10:49:36 PM »

Why is it always (for Me that is) the middle buttons five and six say, where you can't even play above or below the offending button  :(
or is this more likely to be the case ?
My barometer is a weather stick it's very accurate  (:)
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