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Author Topic: Hohner keyboard issue  (Read 1350 times)

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RogerT

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Hohner keyboard issue
« on: February 14, 2019, 06:10:36 AM »

I have a Hohner Morgane or similar to repair. The keyboard has screw-on felt padded buttons...they screw into little plastic dowels which are glued onto the end of the key levers. One of the buttons has sheared off, so I’m either going to drill out the screw in the dowel or, if that wrecks the dowel, make and replace the dowel. Any innovative other ideas on how to fix this? Those two seem to be the most obvious. Drilling out ought to work but obviously the plastic is softer than the screw so the drill end is going to dance around a bit. The hole will be too big after that but I can fill it and redrill a smaller hole.

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Re: Hohner keyboard issue
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2019, 08:49:33 AM »

You may be able to get the spare 'plastic dowels' from the Carini website, which is a bit like Charlie Marshall's, but on steroids. It is also notoriously difficult to find your way around unless you are reasonably fluent in Italian.

The things you need are drilled pistons - 'pistoncini'.
Here's a filtered link to what I hope will work. You will need to search for the correct size. Also I don't know whether Carini will allow you to buy a single piston, or at least a small number. You may need to order hundreds!

This is probably not much help, but you never know...
Good luck! :Ph

Edit:
Just seen that Charlie Marshall does have what might be suitable. Have a look at this page and scroll down a bit:
http://www.cgmmusical.co.uk/CGM_Musical_Services/Treble_Bass_Buttons.html#grid
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 08:54:25 AM by Steve_freereeder »
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Theo

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Re: Hohner keyboard issue
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2019, 08:54:34 AM »

You probably need to buy 50 or 100 at a time from Carini.  I have several sizes if Charlie can't help.
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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RogerT

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Re: Hohner keyboard issue
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2019, 09:19:45 AM »

Ah, thanks both. So...replace the piston.

Theo

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Re: Hohner keyboard issue
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2019, 09:27:53 AM »

If you can't grab the end of the screw that is the best way.
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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Re: Hohner keyboard issue
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2019, 10:36:40 AM »

Steve... I need to check with him... the treble lever 'piston' I need isn't there...or is it?

Theo

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Re: Hohner keyboard issue
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2019, 11:08:56 AM »

The ones on Charlie’s web site are not what you want.  You need one with a hole across the piston for the end of the lever.  Let me know what size you need
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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RogerT

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Re: Hohner keyboard issue
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2019, 12:45:07 PM »

Thanks Theo, I will.

Pete Dunk

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Re: Hohner keyboard issue
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2019, 12:58:35 PM »

You need one with a hole across the piston for the end of the lever.


Not unlike a concertina key then?
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Re: Hohner keyboard issue
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2019, 08:35:34 AM »

To successfully drill out the remainder of the screw is near impossible. Replacing the dowel involves  considerable work and skill. What I usually try and do first is to cut off a millimeter or two of the top of the dowel. This will in most cases make it possible to get a grip on the broken screw with a suitable pair of pincers and to extract it.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2019, 08:49:10 AM by diatonix »
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RogerT

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Re: Hohner keyboard issue
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2019, 01:57:49 PM »

Thanks Diatonix for that advice.
Peter...In fact the 'piston' has a slot in one end (not a hole) and is glued to the lever. So it’s not really like a concertina key.

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Re: Hohner keyboard issue
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2019, 02:00:36 PM »

Roger, could the slot not have once been a hole, but the piston has been snapped at the weakest point? (Just an idle thought.)
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Re: Hohner keyboard issue
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2019, 05:54:12 PM »

Roger, could the slot not have once been a hole, but the piston has been snapped at the weakest point? (Just an idle thought.)
No, it’s a slot. On older Hohner CBAs they use dowling instead of plastic, with a slot and glued to the lever.

Kimric Smythe

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Re: Hohner keyboard issue
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2019, 07:53:50 PM »

If any bit of the screw is exposed you can touch it with a soldering iron and heat it up till the plastic holding it softens. Makes it way easier to grab with a needle nose and pull out.
 I recommend a hemostat for pulling and twisting.
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diatonix

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Re: Hohner keyboard issue
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2019, 09:57:46 PM »

If any bit of the screw is exposed you can touch it with a soldering iron and heat it up till the plastic holding it softens. Makes it way easier to grab with a needle nose and pull out.
 I recommend a hemostat for pulling and twisting.

This has to be done VERY carefully and I would advise strongly against it. The dowel is in most cases made of extremely flammable material. When it comes into contact with a hot soldering iron it can very easily start smoldering uncontrollably.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2019, 10:02:55 PM by diatonix »
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Kimric Smythe

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Re: Hohner keyboard issue
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2019, 11:39:53 PM »

I have not run into one using celluloid for the dowel, typically wood in older models and ABS in later ones.
 Typically the soldering iron is not hot enough to ignite celluloid but it may smoke like hell , not a bad idea to keep a wet rag around though.

 Some accordions have the key arms held in the slot with celluloid glue and this is the only practical way to remove them without destroying them. Heat up the arm till it starts to smoke and pull it off.
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Broadland Boy

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Re: Hohner keyboard issue
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2019, 11:49:26 PM »

That sounds like the observation of someone who has been there, done that and had the teeshirt !

The main trouble with small diameter twist drills is that they are too long and flex badly as most drill chucks are not deep enough to 'swallow' enough length. Their cutting geometry is a compromise for starting accurate holes.

Lathe centre drills are relatively short and stout (and not hideously priced) and are much better for starting holes in most metals
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=lathe+centre+drill&_sop=15
HSS are fine for melodeous purposes but invest in a couple of heavier Tungsten Carbide and you will never worry about extracting an Allen screw which has lost its register again.
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Re: Hohner keyboard issue
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2019, 08:03:17 AM »

I recently cut holes sideways through hard steel mandolin machine head posts (they are basically rod shaped) with a v basic pillar drill (one of those with an ordinary B&Decker drill mounted in a Record frame). The trick was to get a good centre punch indentation where I wanted the hole to start and get the right speed for the drill and go at it gently to start with. It occurs to me I could try and centre punch the screw end. I'll report back on progress when I get to it. I got some parts from Theo so I have a few options.

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Re: Hohner keyboard issue
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2019, 09:00:07 AM »

A left handed drill working in left handed direction will sometimes back out a stuck screw.
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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Re: Hohner keyboard issue
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2019, 06:32:41 PM »

Just for a moment there I thought you were gently leading me towards the 'left handed screw driver, can of stripey paint and long weight' visit to the stores, trick played on new apprentices. But then I thought...yes, there might just be LH drills...  (:)
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