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Author Topic: The VMP Roose MS Project  (Read 2081 times)

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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #80 on: June 02, 2019, 09:13:44 PM »

try this..... not used to attaching stuff so hope it's ok...…..
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Roger Hare

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #81 on: June 02, 2019, 09:20:56 PM »

I have a spreadsheet listing tunes from various printed sources with over 8600 entries listed.
I can find the following tunes for 'Races'

Blaydon, Hexham, Camptown, Kilkenny, Mullingar, Newmarket, Blanchland, Thropton

To which you can add:

Nottingham, Doncaster, Galway, Litchfield, Sidmouth, York, Brighton, Knutsford, Chester,
Buxton, Manchester, Carlisle, Odiham, Burford, Borne

Sorry - I know it's OT, but it's been a long 'music' day, I need a little light relief  ::) ...
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #82 on: June 02, 2019, 11:04:37 PM »

try this..... not used to attaching stuff so hope it's ok...…..

Worked fine. Best guess is piano (=shh!)

Have you worked out the title yet?
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Greg Smith
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #83 on: June 03, 2019, 09:29:31 AM »

Greg: Yes, it's the third (C) part of a tune entitled 'Nottingham Races.
The tune's in a run of Races (!) just before Chelmsford Races, and just after Burford Races.
Why all the fascination with races?
Confused of Devon.
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #84 on: June 03, 2019, 02:58:23 PM »

Greg: Yes, it's the third (C) part of a tune entitled 'Nottingham Races.
The tune's in a run of Races (!) just before Chelmsford Races, and just after Burford Races.
Why all the fascination with races?
Confused of Devon.

erm, a day a the races is a traditional entertainment for both gentry and the hoi poloi and a jolly good day out?
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Greg Smith
Is not the space between Heaven and Earth like a bellows?
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The more it moves, the more comes out of it.
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #85 on: June 03, 2019, 03:09:47 PM »

well yes, though the ms author seems to have written a lot in one go!
I do remember the famous Newcastle fiddler and hornpipe master James Hill naming hornpipes after favoured horses of the day so I suspect you're right!
Q
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Thrupenny Bit

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #86 on: June 08, 2019, 10:46:39 AM »

Having the feeling that I was a Racing Correspondent, I've now become a 19C version of Trip Advisor  ;D
Tunes being Trip to this and Trip to that.....
All good fun!
Q
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Pete Dunk

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #87 on: June 08, 2019, 01:43:17 PM »

When looking at the ABC file of the tunes transcribed so far on ChrisP's webpage I was surprised to find that I'm the only transcriber so far to match the X: field number to the manuscript tune number thus:

X:0613
T:Untitled. Roose. 0613
M:2/4
L:1/8
U:w=!wedge!
Q:1/4=80
K:A
|:A2 c/B/A/G/|A2 c/B/A/G/|Af ed|cB/c/ AE|\
A2 c/B/A/G/|Af ed|cBAG|{G}A2A2:|
|:E2 FG &A,4|A3E &A,4|FEFG|A3E|\
FEFG|Afed|cBAG|{G}A2A2:|
|:c//d//e3/ c//d//e3/|dbb2|B//c//d3/ B//c//d3/|caa2|\
A//B//c3/ A//B//c3/|Afed|cBAG|{G}A2A2:|
K:Am
|:e2d/c/B/A/|f2e/d/c/B/|b2^g^f/g/|aecA|\
we(cBA)|wf(dcB)|cBA^G|{G}A2A2:|

All of the others, as far as I can see, have sent files in that start at X:1. Surely this will make sorting the tunes in the finished abc file into the correct order a greater task than it ought to be? As I'm the odd one out perhaps it's my logic that's flawed! The tune above is good fun btw, give it a listen.
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #88 on: June 08, 2019, 03:52:52 PM »

I match the x number with the Roose number too....
I'm about 3/4  through my first batch, been a bit busy at home so feel like I'm being a bit slow....
Q
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Pete Dunk

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #89 on: June 08, 2019, 04:26:19 PM »

It's not a race Q. Chill!
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playandteach

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #90 on: June 08, 2019, 04:26:34 PM »

I have very clearly written 'Pia' underneath the first bar of the C music of my tune.
Trying to google it but throws up all sorts of odd answers, pia mater = 'tender' being the most likely.
Do I write 'pia' under the stave, 'NB' it??
Can't see it on your image - too small for my eyes, but the most likely word is piu, which just means 'more' of something, piu mosso is faster. So if you've got an earlier comment, such as a tempo mark or a dynamic, then it could be a stronger version of that.
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Rob Lands

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #91 on: June 08, 2019, 05:04:53 PM »

'pia' my first thought - piano as in p
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #92 on: June 08, 2019, 05:08:05 PM »

When looking at the ABC file of the tunes transcribed so far on ChrisP's webpage I was surprised to find that I'm the only transcriber so far to match the X: field number to the manuscript tune number thus:

X:0613
T:Untitled. Roose. 0613
M:2/4
L:1/8
U:w=!wedge!
Q:1/4=80
K:A
...All of the others, as far as I can see, have sent files in that start at X:1. Surely this will make sorting the tunes in the finished abc file into the correct order a greater task than it ought to be? As I'm the odd one out perhaps it's my logic that's flawed!...

You're right Pete. I think Chris posted something including that information. It's how I've done it. I've also got B and Z fields based on an example that I thought was from Chris. Maybe not. Not too late to correct them if I do have it wrong. I'm just trying to proof read them.

B:Roose MS, poss. Manchester, mid-late 19th century.
Z:vmp.2019.Greg Bradfield-Smith.


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Greg Smith
Is not the space between Heaven and Earth like a bellows?
It is empty, but lacks nothing.
The more it moves, the more comes out of it.
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #93 on: June 08, 2019, 05:10:37 PM »

'pia' my first thought - piano as in p

and mine, definitely looks like Pia
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Greg Smith
Is not the space between Heaven and Earth like a bellows?
It is empty, but lacks nothing.
The more it moves, the more comes out of it.
Lao Tzu

Thrupenny Bit

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #94 on: June 08, 2019, 05:14:29 PM »

Pete : Yes I know and I really enjoy the journey so don't race through my quota.
I just don't want to hold up the overall process that's all.

P&T: thanks, will check back and see if I've missed any other comment, but don't think I have.
I've left it as a comment above the bar as it is written, and double check it's spelling whilst I'm there!
Cheers
Q

Ah as I post...... Greg has a Pia too!
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!

Rob Lands

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #95 on: June 09, 2019, 09:53:51 AM »

Looking through my set.  I have a batch of 'minstrel' songs with titles reflecting that content.  Tracking the titles; I hope my search history isn't reviewed; I find many references to the 'Ethiopian Seranaders'. They have a batch of songs in the Library of Congress and else where where tunes are reasonable matches (they tend to be piano scores).  The singers names suggest they blacked up as do some press reports.  They toured England for two years ~1845 and did play in Manchester.  I certainly have a very close match of titles so am wondering if they are a source.  And also whether Roose was in a concert band.  There many references to So(lo), Sym(phony), Chorus. In many cases I have found verse, chorus and musical flourish, a lot of flourish.
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Roger Hare

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #96 on: June 09, 2019, 11:50:49 AM »

(1) ...'Ethiopian Seranaders'...They toured England for two years ~1845 and did play in
Manchester....am wondering if they are a source.  (2) And also whether Roose was in a
concert band...
(1) That's a nice idea! Do those dates help decide which of the three John Rooses was
the one who wrote out the MS?

(2) Do we actually know which John Roose was responsible for the MS? I don't think
we do, but the date of those tours may help?

John Roose(2) was a constable in Manchester's finest. I wonder if 'twas him, and he was
in the Police Band? There was a Police Band - I was told this while playing at a Morris
dance-out t'other night. When I have a minute (Tuesday, I hope), I shall toddle along
to the Police Museum in Manchester and see if they have any information...
« Last Edit: June 09, 2019, 11:57:53 AM by Roger Hare »
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Rob Lands

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #97 on: June 09, 2019, 08:18:27 PM »

I don't think i wrote down the website with the tour information.  If wanted let me know and I'll see if I can find it in my history.  I also had a lot of 'English' tunes from C18 - published songs, in an earlier part 0500, the minstrel tunes are at least 50 years later.  If I needed an estimate I'd say everything I have is pre 1850 and a lot pre 1800.
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Rob Lands

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #98 on: June 10, 2019, 10:03:06 AM »

https://minstrels.library.utoronto.ca/content/ethiopian-serenaders-1846-48
The first English Tour 1846 -48
The came back later with William Henry Lane 'Master Juba' thus the project name I think.
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: The VMP Roose MS Project
« Reply #99 on: June 13, 2019, 12:27:48 PM »

Are these squiggles below the stave trills?
The first one I read as a '3' for a triplet, but then changed my mind after encountering the second.
I presume a trill?
Q
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Thrupenny Bit

I think I'm starting to get most of the notes in roughly the right order...... sometimes!
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