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Author Topic: Accordions made of oak  (Read 1051 times)

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tirpous

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Re: Accordions made of oak
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2019, 09:54:39 PM »

Oak is not significantly heavier than many other hardwoods used for boxes, such as cherry.  Any difference, if any, could be compensated by cutting it a bit thinner.

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/wood-density-d_40.html
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-Y-

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Re: Accordions made of oak
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2019, 10:27:29 PM »

I've wondered too, there seem to be a lot of variability in wood density measurement  (:)
But dependoing on the type of Oak, I think you're right. Boxcall explanation might be better!
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Y.

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Squeaky Pete

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Re: Accordions made of oak
« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2019, 11:01:57 PM »

Oak certainly wouldn't be my first choice of timber. I'd prefer a closer grain like cherry, walnut or sycamore.
Chestnut has a slightly finer grain than oak and is a lovely timber to work. Ash and elm are both good strong tough timbers but like oak the grain really needs to be seen in a larger piece. A bit like looking at William Morris wallpaper in post-it note sizes.
As has been mentioned oak really should be quarter sawn for stability (and prettiness) as slash sawn stuff can move a long way as the humidity changes.
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playandteach

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Re: Accordions made of oak
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2019, 12:21:23 AM »

Ash and elm are both good strong tough timbers but like oak the grain really needs to be seen in a larger piece. A bit like looking at William Morris wallpaper in post-it note sizes.
As has been mentioned oak really should be quarter sawn for stability (and prettiness) as slash sawn stuff can move a long way as the humidity changes.
This is exactly what I have been feeling. Small pieces of oak, especially not quarter sawn, are a limitation of my favourite wood. I actually don't like the tree, but the wood is gorgeous, but it needs a large stretch of it to really show off. The properties of oak are beyond my skill set, but there are few timbers I'd rather see (maybe elm).
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Accordions made of oak
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2019, 01:11:27 AM »

I had a G/C Lilium which was made of what I believe to be White oak (but possibly Ash?), with decorative Padouk inserts.
Plays beautifully with a great sound. Sold to another forum member  ;)

If Steve is right and this is oak, doesn't that negate any arguments against the use of oak, or do I misunderstand? It seems to be a beautiful instrument that sounds as good as it looks.
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Greg Smith
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Broadland Boy

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Re: Accordions made of oak
« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2019, 02:47:30 AM »

The tannic and acetic acid often takes longer than the normal seasoning period to finally vacate oak, rusting of ironwork  can be an issue.

Rumours abound that a kit for growing a Giordy sized box (which matures into a substantial PA if left unharvested), from an acorn may be available early April 2020, supplies are likely to be limited and may be available only to the worst MAD cases or the terminally gullible.....................
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Thrupenny Bit

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Re: Accordions made of oak
« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2019, 08:03:24 AM »

Broadland Boy has a good point about the tannins in Oak.
I have two pillars holding up my porch, at least 180 years old and cannot keep paint on them. My father said I won't because of the tannins and after 55 years of painting and decorating, he knew!
I've also seen fresh felled Oak being sawn by a hand saw, and water oozing out of the sawn end, quite incredible. No wonder it takes ages to dry and stop moving.
It has many benefits structurally, but perhaps not for a musical instrument?
Q
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Re: Accordions made of oak
« Reply #27 on: November 07, 2019, 08:03:55 AM »

Rumours abound that a kit for growing a Giordy sized box (which matures into a substantial PA if left unharvested), from an acorn may be available early April 2020, supplies are likely to be limited and may be available only to the worst MAD cases or the terminally gullible.....................

Catastrophe may be avoided if you keep your Giordy dry in a robust, tightly fitting, shallow locked case.
I think the technique is called "Bonzai"
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Gromit

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Re: Accordions made of oak
« Reply #28 on: November 07, 2019, 08:24:48 AM »

Quote
    Staining oak red - that's sacrilege and looks awful!


If you say so (I mean, it's your opinion, not a universal truth)

Can't argue with that - I'll use someone else's opinion next time.

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John MacKenzie (Cugiok)

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Re: Accordions made of oak
« Reply #29 on: November 07, 2019, 09:18:50 AM »

Quercua Robur, properly seasoned, ie, not kiln dried, is the answer. The faster growing white oaks have a more open grain, and that's because they grow faster..
I can tell the difference when turning on the lathe, a well seasoned English oak, is almost iron hard, and needs sharp tools, and light cuts.

Sir John
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Tone Dumb Greg

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Re: Accordions made of oak
« Reply #30 on: November 07, 2019, 09:42:46 AM »

The tannic and acetic acid often takes longer than the normal seasoning period to finally vacate oak, rusting of ironwork  can be an issue.

Rumours abound that a kit for growing a Giordy sized box (which matures into a substantial PA if left unharvested), from an acorn may be available early April 2020, supplies are likely to be limited and may be available only to the worst MAD cases or the terminally gullible.....................

That sounds like a really excellent idea. Who will be selling them, please?
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Greg Smith
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Re: Accordions made of oak
« Reply #31 on: November 07, 2019, 11:05:51 AM »

I had a G/C Lilium which was made of what I believe to be White oak (but possibly Ash?), with decorative Padouk inserts.
Plays beautifully with a great sound. Sold to another forum member  ;)

If Steve is right and this is oak, doesn't that negate any arguments against the use of oak, or do I misunderstand? It seems to be a beautiful instrument that sounds as good as it looks.

Here it is in action, played by our own Vicky of this parish!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPBqMIiHfsM
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heartshaped1

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Re: Accordions made of oak
« Reply #32 on: November 07, 2019, 11:21:45 AM »

Haha! Far too fast that version but I guess it gives an idea of the sound. Yes, I am the very privileged current custodian of the G/C Lilium and it literally plays itself. Amazing versatility, not at all heavy, quick as anything (certainly far faster than me anyway!). It’s an absolute dream of a box.

As for the material, I’ll let others decide, all I can say is unlike my other boxes you can feel the grain, as in it isn’t smooth to touch. The fretwork, fingerboard and bass end cover aren’t the same wood.

It will be with me at Melodeons in Wensleydale where I’m running a G/C mini workshop so if you happen to be there and would like a go, please do ask!

Vicky
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boxcall

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Re: Accordions made of oak
« Reply #33 on: November 11, 2019, 02:19:43 AM »



As for the material, I’ll let others decide, all I can say is unlike my other boxes you can feel the grain, as in it isn’t smooth to touch. The fretwork, fingerboard and bass end cover aren’t the same wood.



Vicky
You can typically see it as well as feel the slight imperfections in the finish.
Red oak is more porous than white oak.

Info from the woodwright shop below.
If a piece of red oak is put into water (end grain first) you can blow through it and bubbles will appear in the water. ( very porous)
White oak pores are blocked with inclusions called tyloses that make it impervious to liquids. Good choice for ship building ( or if you going to take your box out on a boat;) ) It is difficult to season successfully but worth the effort.
( my words )
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Broadland Boy

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Re: Accordions made of oak
« Reply #34 on: November 11, 2019, 12:59:53 PM »

After further thought, and while loosing the figure but more importantly, any residual acetic acid, bog oak with perhaps holly, sycamore or box stringing would look rather nice and be ideal for playing those fossilised tunes from wayback when.
 
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Richard A
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Winston Smith

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Re: Accordions made of oak
« Reply #35 on: November 11, 2019, 02:07:49 PM »

"playing those fossilised tunes from wayback when."

By some of our (almost) fossilised players, perhaps?
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tirpous

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Re: Accordions made of oak
« Reply #36 on: November 11, 2019, 04:21:51 PM »

Quote
Early 1980s Messervier one-rows such as this one were made of oak.  Many people feel this was one of Messervier's better models - if not the best.   

My comments above were based on having seen, heard (and heard about) these boxes, but I had never actualy tried one.  By a strange coincidence I had the opportunity to examine and play a very nice example of these red-and-blue oak Messerviers last weekend.  I found it remarkably light, vibrant and responsive, a real pleasure to play.

Based on this, it's clear (to me, anyway  (:)) that exceptional instruments can be made of oak.



 
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