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Author Topic: Monck's March and Coldstream Guards  (Read 8858 times)

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mikesamwild

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Monck's March and Coldstream Guards
« on: February 05, 2010, 11:26:22 AM »

This may be of interest, any other info on Monck and why the tune was named after him ?

http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=10782


I have found it in Playford so it may predate the Morris dance which uses it.

Note the Proudlock's Hornpipe link too.
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Mike in Sheffield

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Rob2Hook

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Re: Monck's March and Coldstream Guards
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2010, 11:52:50 AM »

I heard that General Monck was a Parliamentarian officer with Royalist leanings, so he marched his troops to this slow march so he never arrived in time to fight!

Rob.
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Re: Monck's March and Coldstream Guards
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2010, 11:54:50 AM »

I heard that General Monck was a Parliamentarian officer with Royalist leanings, so he marched his troops to this slow march so he never arrived in time to fight!

Rob.
Sounds like a good plan. I use the same idea when asked to wash up or do any other chores. :P

Ollie

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Re: Monck's March and Coldstream Guards
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2010, 07:42:10 PM »

I know a direct decendent of General Monck - he will be very pleased to see you've spelt his name correctly!
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Bob Ellis

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Re: Monck's March and Coldstream Guards
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2010, 12:58:13 AM »

Any other info on Monck and why the tune was named after him ?

Despite having begun the English Civil War as a royalist, George Monck became a general in the New Model Army. He was loyal to Oliver Cromwell, who appointed him to govern Scotland during the Protectorate. When Oliver Cromwell died and his son Richard's Protectorate collapsed, England began to drift into anarchy as the Rump Parliament (which had been dissolved by Oliver Cromwell in 1653) was first restored by the army (led by Generals Lambert, Fleetwood and Desborough) and then dissolved again by them as a result of the Rump's attempts to curb the powers of the senior army officers. The Rump appealed to Monck for help in late 1659 and he marched south shortly afterwards to take charge of the situation and restore order. He crossed the border at Coldstream, which is why his personal regiment became known subsequently as the Coldstream Guards. The tune, Monck's March, commemorates his march south, which was not slow due to hesitancy but due to diplomacy as he sought to avoid kindling a new Civil War with forces loyal to Lambert, Fleetwood and Desborough.

By the time Monck reached London, the Rump Parliament had been restored yet again. His assessment of the situation was that the Rump's blinkered republicanism was a major part of the problem and he forced it to readmit the survivors of those members who had been forcibly excluded from parliament by Pride's Purge back in 1848. He knew that readmitting those members would change the balance of power in parliament and lead to the restoration of the monarchy. Monck was also in secret communication with the court of Charles II in exile in the Netherlands. Charles sent Monck a document known as the Declaration of Breda, which he read out in Parliament. It guaranteed, among other things, that, if Charles was restored to the throne, there would be a general pardon for all who had taken up arms against the monarchy with the exception of those who had had a direct hand in the execution of Charles I. On hearing these terms, parliament voted immediately to restore Charles II to the throne. Thus, General Monck played a major, if not the major, part in the restoarion of the monarchy, for which he was granted a dukedom. He was immensely popular in the early years of Charles II's reign and this tune was written, presumably, in his honour.

(Sorry about the didactic nature of the above, but you did ask! I should explain that I am a professional historian who published a book on this period of history back in 1992.)
« Last Edit: February 06, 2010, 01:01:20 AM by Bob Ellis »
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Re: Monck's March and Coldstream Guards
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2010, 08:44:52 AM »

I know a direct decendent of General Monck - he will be very pleased to see you've spelt his name correctly!

I also know Lord (Charlie) Monck - I wonder if we know the same bloke?

Martin
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mikesamwild

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Re: Monck's March and Coldstream Guards
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2010, 12:04:56 PM »

Thasnks Bob and others!

I have noticed that some tunes in Playford colections were danced during the Parliamentary period so the Puritans didn't ban things alogether, In fact I noted on a TV series on the history of Christianity that Cromwell liked a dance but that church wasn't seen as the place for too much 'levity'.  No 'Lord of the Dance' >:( then
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Ebor_fiddler

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Re: Monck's March and Coldstream Guards
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2010, 12:40:47 PM »

No music either. Puritans have always been a miserable lot!  :|glug
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Re: Monck's March and Coldstream Guards
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2010, 01:28:09 PM »

I know a direct decendent of General Monck - he will be very pleased to see you've spelt his name correctly!

I also know Lord (Charlie) Monck - I wonder if we know the same bloke?

Martin

I do believe we do!  :D
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Bob Ellis

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Re: Monck's March and Coldstream Guards
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2010, 02:46:48 PM »

Thanks Bob and others!

I have noticed that some tunes in Playford colections were danced during the Parliamentary period so the Puritans didn't ban things alogether, In fact I noted on a TV series on the history of Christianity that Cromwell liked a dance but that church wasn't seen as the place for too much 'levity'.  No 'Lord of the Dance' >:( then

Cromwell was a lot less of a Puritan killjoy than his reputation suggests. He believed in a certain amount of religious toleration. It was a radical religious element in the army and also in some of the Interegnum parliaments (notably the Barebones Parliament) that were mainly responsible for restricting religious and social freedon, including the freedom to dance.
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Re: Monck's March and Coldstream Guards
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2010, 04:10:00 PM »

In fact I noted on a TV series on the history of Christianity that Cromwell liked a dance ..
.. waltz and all
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Ollie

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Re: Monck's March and Coldstream Guards
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2010, 04:17:46 PM »

In fact I noted on a TV series on the history of Christianity that Cromwell liked a dance ..
.. waltz and all

 ;D

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Owen Woods

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Re: Monck's March and Coldstream Guards
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2010, 04:28:56 PM »

I know a direct decendent of General Monck - he will be very pleased to see you've spelt his name correctly!

I also know Lord (Charlie) Monck - I wonder if we know the same bloke?

Martin

I have a weird interest in this sort of thing, do you know who he is related to? According to wikipedia General Monck had no direct descendents, is he related to his brother? If he has a peerage though (again according to Wikipedia) he must be Charles Monck, 7th Viscount Monck. If the two titles are linked then someone should edit the page (:)
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Ollie

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Re: Monck's March and Coldstream Guards
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2010, 04:37:03 PM »

I know a direct decendent of General Monck - he will be very pleased to see you've spelt his name correctly!

I also know Lord (Charlie) Monck - I wonder if we know the same bloke?

Martin

I have a weird interest in this sort of thing, do you know who he is related to? According to wikipedia General Monck had no direct descendents, is he related to his brother? If he has a peerage though (again according to Wikipedia) he must be Charles Monck, 7th Viscount Monck. If the two titles are linked then someone should edit the page (:)

Yup, that's Charlie.
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mikesamwild

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Re: Monck's March and Coldstream Guards
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2010, 02:16:24 PM »

namedropper ;)
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Mike in Sheffield

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mikesamwild

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Re: Monck's March and Coldstream Guards
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2010, 04:22:47 PM »

I've added a bt more on concertina net on Playford and the cultural politics of the period

http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=10782&st=0&gopid=108407&
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Mike in Sheffield

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Bob Ellis

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Re: Monck's March and Coldstream Guards
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2010, 08:45:40 PM »

I've added a bt more on concertina net on Playford and the cultural politics of the period

http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=10782&st=0&gopid=108407&

Most experts on the period would question the assertion that Monck remained a covert Royalist whilst he was serving the Commonwealth and Protectorate. Monck was steadfast in his loyalty to Oliver Cromwell and this loyalty transferred to Richard Cromwell's brief Protectorate. He had several opportunities to bring about a Royalist restoration earlier than 1660 that he spurned due to his loyalty to the Cromwells. This appears to have been the principal reason why Charles II, whilst rewarding Monck by creating him Duke of Albemarle, did not give him any significant political office in the years following the Restoration. Basically, Charles did not trust him.
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Owen Woods

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Re: Monck's March and Coldstream Guards
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2010, 10:31:52 PM »

I danced Monk's March (the dance, which I believe is spelt without a k) the other day, it's really quite good fun ;D
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Re: Monck's March and Coldstream Guards
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2010, 08:15:08 AM »

I danced Monk's March (the dance, which I believe is spelt without a k) the other day, it's really quite good fun ;D

You should try Monk's Pub Crawl - same dance but done with a pint of beer which has to be consumed during the dance, best to get a fair way down before the slow capers and at the end it finishes with your beer container of choice upside down on your head to show all has been consumed.

mikesamwild

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Re: Monck's March and Coldstream Guards
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2010, 02:44:35 PM »

I've added a bt more on concertina net on Playford and the cultural politics of the period

http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=10782&st=0&gopid=108407&

Most experts on the period would question the assertion that Monck remained a covert Royalist whilst he was serving the Commonwealth and Protectorate. Monck was steadfast in his loyalty to Oliver Cromwell and this loyalty transferred to Richard Cromwell's brief Protectorate. He had several opportunities to bring about a Royalist restoration earlier than 1660 that he spurned due to his loyalty to the Cromwells. This appears to have been the principal reason why Charles II, whilst rewarding Monck by creating him Duke of Albemarle, did not give him any significant political office in the years following the Restoration. Basically, Charles did not trust him.

I think I was alluding to Playford in the second post on Conc.net but I bow to your knowledge, I'm a humble scientist (:)
« Last Edit: February 11, 2010, 03:09:11 PM by mikesamwild »
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Mike in Sheffield

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