Club Players .... who keeps the "Gleichton" and who doesn't ?

[Gandy]

Hi,

I'm interested in the Club layout, but a bit puzzled by the Gleichton.  Speaking in D/G terms I can see the desire to have a pull D, but not quite sure why they still keep a push D when that's available on the D row.   So I wonder why they didn't go for a reversed E/D button there rather than D/D.

So my question is to the Club players here,  who finds the Gleichton useful, and who decided to revert it to conventional form?   Do people retune it just so they can chop and change between Club and "normal"?

Thanks,

[Clive Williams]

my question is to the Club players here,  who finds the Gleichton useful, and who decided to revert it to conventional form?   Do people retune it just so they can chop and change between Club and "normal"?

I reverted mine to 'normal', so I can play it just like any other 2 row 8 bass box. I felt slightly guilty, but then, hey, an instrument's meant to be played, isn't it?

Clive

[pgroff]

I pull out the reeds and save them unaltered with the instrument, but substitute in spare ones that I retune to C press / D draw (for a C/F club) or Bb press / C draw (for a Bb/Eb club). Best of both worlds for me. I can play a stock club by reaching to the outside row for the different draw note, but would rather not have to think that hard. But the instruments themselves can always be returned to their stock condition, if a spaceship should land with thousands of players who suddenly want the original club layout.

Recent ebay auctions of some very high quality club accordions have usually ended with "reserve not met." The sellers understand that these instruments were expensive when new, but do not understand that there is very little market for the unaltered club system... lots of instruments chasing few potential buyers, and many of those buyers will want to reconfigure the boxes.

Still it would be good to preserve the potential for re-conversion to originality, especially for the super deluxe ones. You never know what the future might hold.

PG

[OwenG]

I've got a Club III with a 'split-Gleichton' with the Gleichton re-tuned to C/D and then the pull Eb on the half row re-tuned to a pull C to give me the best of both worlds.

I've also got a Liliput in original tuning with the Gleichton which I muck about with. It only takes a few minutes to adjust the brain to using the Gleichton and I find that my ring finger gets a real work out as it covers all two and a half rows.

[waldoB]

Quote :" The note occuring on both the push and pull allows the full major chords named by the melodeon system to be played in both directions. "  ref Mally

[Lester]

Two things:

If you remove the Gleichton doesn't the box become "just another melodeon" and not a "Club"    

I believe that the reversal of the D/E reeds (on a D/G) is called the "Dutch Modification"

[Gandy]

I believe that the reversal of the D/E reeds (on a D/G) is called the "Dutch Modification"

Not heard that, but it was a Dutch girl who seemed surprised that my Hohner had a normal D/E on the G row.

[Gandy]

Quote :" The note occuring on both the push and pull allows the full major chords named by the melodeon system to be played in both directions. "  ref Mally

But you have the note on the push anyway, on the outer row.

[waldoB]

That's the point, on a D/G you only have D on the push, on both rows. With a Club you get a pull.

[TomB-R]

Play about on the inner row in groups of three buttons, press and draw, and you'll get a very characteristic/(pastiche) Germanic flavour!

[ganderbox]

Quote :" The note occuring on both the push and pull allows the full major chords named by the melodeon system to be played in both directions. "  ref Mally

But you have the note on the push anyway, on the outer row.

That's the point, on a D/G you only have D on the push, on both rows. With a Club you get a pull.

I think Tony is saying that there is no need to have the D on the push on both rows...if there is a D on the push on the outer row, why not put on E on the push on the inner row (the dutch reversal).
I've never played a club with the original layout, but having played 2.5 row boxes with a D/E reversal on the half row, I'd say that I use the reversed D much more than the reversed E, so having the D in both directions on the same row might be an advantage.
With a club, you don't lose the reversed E as there is one on the half row. I presume that the dutch reversal is used on 2 row boxes, where there is no half row to provide a D & E reversal.

[LJC]

I'm too busy/lazy to re learn fingerings so I de-club. I do like having the D/E reversal on my 1/2 row however.

[Miklos Nemeth]

I do like having the D/E reversal on my 1/2 row however.

On my D/G Liliput's 1/2 row one of the button is C/D (push/pull). I have no E push on my box, and I'm thinking of reversing the D/E (5th) button on the G row to have an E push.
As I'm progressing in my learning the melodeon, I like more and more the smoother way of melodeon playing.
Theo's comment about the importance of learning cross-rowing in a very early stage was revelation:
http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,3537.msg43126.html#msg43126
With this E/D reversal and the C/D in the 1/2 row, the G scale would be available fully both in push and in pull.
Practically, I'm relearning all the tunes I learned so far to use cross-rowing, and I like this smoother style since it's much easier and  more fun. Just a meaningless comment from a beginner.
Miki

[pipives]

I am, I'm afraid another one who has a club box 'de-clubbed.' I could probably have got used to the d/d or a reversed d/e, but I admit I'm Lazy! 

[Matthew B]

I think there are quite a few discussions of the virtues and challenges presented by the club layout lurking around in the forum archives.  In response to the original post: I have kept the gleichton on my club boxes.  I like the options it presents for both push and draw runs in C and F, and for chromatic runs on the draw.  In the past year or so I've also been exploring some fancier chord progressions --- largely inspired by the erudite contributions of some of the more musically literate members of this group.  The club layout, particularly the version with at least seven accidentals, gives lots of options for this kind of thing, which in turn gives a lot more options for vamping outside the home keys.  The versatility of the club layout, plus the sound options given by a few switches means you can use a club box to sound like a melodeon, or to get a pretty close approximation of that big cheesy "real" accordion sound.  I'm guessing that one of the higher-end clubs, like a five-voice Morino, or one of those splendid spangly jobs that seem to be surfacing all over the place at the moment, would do an even better job of faking that kind of sound. 

In the end, however, like all melodeon layouts, its a compromise. 

[Falseknight]

What about the Club bass end?

[LJC]

I've got a Bb/Eb which has the equivalent of an F push chord on the C chord position (if it were DG). I never use it, but I'm sure I'll be glad of it one day. It does mean that playing that box compared to my DG's has to be a little more precise (probably not a bad thing) so as not to hit the wrong chord.

[Theo]

I play a Club II with both ends changed to the 'normal' layout.

Judging from work I've done for other Club owners it tends to divide between established players who want them de-clubbed so they don'e have to re-learn, and new players who are a bit more likely to keep the original layout.

[Miklos Nemeth]

new players who are a bit more likely to keep the original layout.

Revival of the Club system? ebay.de is powerful 
 

[Matthew B]

What about the Club bass end?

The club system bass end is certainly an odd duck, by any standards.  It's much less versatile than the melody end.  It works pretty well in the home keys, and because of the "extra" chord (the push Eb opposite the draw Bb on a C/F box) it can play pretty easily in Bb.  However, the lack of switches to pull the thirds limits the possibilities somewhat.  Even on the big fancy clubs the registers, if I'm not mistaken, just add and subtract reeds to and from the full chords.  Those clubs with extra bass buttons don't extend the chord range much, but I've never played one, so I don't know how that works out when one is actually using the thing.  There are a few clubs out there with stradella basses.  If I'm not mistaken Dino Baffetti have a club box set up like this.  Similarly Brazilian gaita pontos are club-tuned on the right but frequently with some version of a stradella on the left.  But again, I've never played one, so I'm not sure how that really works out.  Renato Borghetti plays a gaita ponto with stradella bass and seems to get along nicely with the arrangement.  Some of his tunes are quite catchy. 

Overall, just another compromise.