Club Players .... who keeps the "Gleichton" and who doesn't ?

[cpsmart]

Trying to learn the club system without the proper literature or instruction is difficult if you come from the perspective of playing the standard melodeon layout (at least I found the two systems to be quite different).  The club system is not meant to be played like a standard melodeon and so the basses don't make much sense and the keys seem limited.  But a look at some old club instructional materials illuminated the subject considerably.  I also found that after learning to play a standard melodeon, with more emphasis on moving across the rows for reversals that accommodate wider bass accompaniment (arguably as the standard quint layout was intended to be played), especially in the home row key, that the logic or reasoning behind the club system made a lot more sense.  It's a pretty sophisticated system for playing smoothly in long draws in either direction, and if you discount the basses for tunes in keys other than those of the home row, then chromatic play (or something approaching it) becomes possible.

Yes, so I kept the gleichton on my club.  

[Gandy]

Revival of the Club system? ebay.de is powerful 

I think an important factor is greater awareness of restorers who can take these instruments and convert them to different tunings.   I know I'd have loved a Club when I got my D/G, but the chances of getting hold of one in D/G were effectively zero at that time.  I wouldn't have had the faintest idea how or where to look.

[butterfingers]

 I like the Club tuning and the"helper" row for the possibilities they afford [blues,jazz plus really smooth playing of jigs and reels because of the gleichton]...will I ever realise the full potential in my playing? Probably not and it would be easier in standard tuning give or take a few notes [ but I like to "doodle" on my Club Accordions and dream]...I think that Theo had it right a couple of years ago when he said that in the universe of accordion players, Club players were a wee bit outside the norm, a bit like [my words now] computer nerds addicted to certain obscure programs, etc. Nevertheless Club accordions are great machines..perhaps think twice before you get the tuning changed...

[Bill the Farmer]

I like my club boxes the way they are, the system allows you to play some tunes with different harmonies which aren't possible on a standard box. However it makes some tunes with fast twiddles involving the gleichton more difficult to play in comparison.

[Anahata]

It's a pretty sophisticated system for playing smoothly in long draws in either direction  

Would I be right in thinking the club system is derived from the Steirische Harmonika system? They have a gleichton on all except the outer row, and the standard way to play a Steirische is to change bellows directions per bar or per main chord change. The gleichton makes a big difference to the ability to play the whole scale in either direction.

If I ever got a Steirische (and I'm tempted...) I think I might want to convert my other boxes TO club tuning so I didn't have to play two different systems. Has anyone ever done that? From the player's point of view, is it easy to convert, or even to mentally switch systems between one box and another?

I don't know much about the half row on a club...

[waltzman]

It's a pretty sophisticated system for playing smoothly in long draws in either direction  

Would I be right in thinking the club system is derived from the Steirische Harmonika system? They have a gleichton on all except the outer row, and the standard way to play a Steirische is to change bellows directions per bar or per main chord change. The gleichton makes a big difference to the ability to play the whole scale in either direction.

If I ever got a Steirische (and I'm tempted...) I think I might want to convert my other boxes TO club tuning so I didn't have to play two different systems. Has anyone ever done that? From the player's point of view, is it easy to convert, or even to mentally switch systems between one box and another?

I don't know much about the half row on a club...

I have played with both systems and I would say that it is not that easy to switch between the two for the same tunes.  Another way of saying this is that learning a different repetoir on the club is a lot easier than trying to play the tunes on it that you have leaned on the standard box.  To my mind if your are going to have a 2 1/2 row box and you learned on a standard 'quint' box it makes much more sense to put that draw first row tonic note on the half row and not mess with the standard layout of the outer two rows.  Then , instead of having to relearn anything, you can just explore the new options of having that particular note on the draw.  Just my two cents.

[Bill the Farmer]

I haven't had much of a problem getting used to the club system, In the worst case, you may inadvertently get the pull 'e' from the 'D' row on a D/G box, or waggle the bellows on a club box and get two 'c's in a row if you're not thinking. But I haven't really made much use of the half row. It's a collection of accidentals and reversals except you get more of them than a standard 2½ row box. And a couple of extra low accidentals on the row.  I like both systems.

[butterfingers]

 Regarding the useful aspect, when playing "modal" jigs and reels [ tunes like "Drowsy Maggie" or "Sunday is my wedding  day"] the gleichton allows you to play the flat 7 degree of the scale without changing the direction of the bellows [you can hang onto the minor chord]...so in an Emin.-D tune you could play the "D" passing note of the melody without having to switch to a "D" chord on the left hand...the drawback of course is that the Clubs aren't tuned in G or D, so you end up playing Celtic tunes in Cmin. or Dmin [you can also get a Gmin7 chord or an Amin 7..bit complex to explain here, it involves pressing bass buttons and chords from different rows]]....useless at most sessions unless you happen to visit Cape Breton or Scotland [no shortage of tunes in B flat, F,E flat, Cmin., Gmin., Dmin. and C]...which leads me to this question...does anyone know if there are any accordions in Club tuning being manufactured in the keys of D or G?

[Matthew B]

Would I be right in thinking the club system is derived from the Steirische Harmonika system? They have a gleichton on all except the outer row, and the standard way to play a Steirische is to change bellows directions per bar or per main chord change. The gleichton makes a big difference to the ability to play the whole scale in either direction.

If I ever got a Steirische (and I'm tempted...) I think I might want to convert my other boxes TO club tuning so I didn't have to play two different systems. Has anyone ever done that? From the player's point of view, is it easy to convert, or even to mentally switch systems between one box and another?

I don't know much about the half row on a club...

Ah well . . . the origins of the club system seem to be shrouded in mystery.  I think Peter Unbehauen (who shows up here now and again) has a few pithy things to say about how the Hohner folks lost track of the origins of the Corona.  Likewise, they seem to have lost track of who exactly came up with the club system.  However, it seems to me that the similarities between the club and the Steirische (and also I believe the Slovenian, and possibly the Schwyzerörgeli) systems are more than just a coincidence.  That reversal on the "middle" note opens up so many possibilities, its just hard not to experiment a bit and see how one can exploit it.  It's worth noting that quite a few 2.5 row layouts out there (including Castagnari and Andy Cutting's custom) emulate the club system by putting a gleichton substitute on the half row with a reversal.  And the Dutch Modification does a similar thing by flipping the middle reed.  It's possible all these versions are related somehow, or more probably it's such a good idea, that it keeps getting reinvented.  A bit like the semitone boxes, which variously show up as Irish B/C, Irish-American C/C#, D/C#, and C#/D, Quebecois C#/D, and Scottish B/C/C#, all with different bass systems.  Or the dual-tone boxes, which seem to get invented every few decades as well.  

The Club/Steirische link seems to be strengthened, regardless of where it started, by Hohner, since they put those big honking basses in the majority of club boxes.  As most clubs have quite heavy bass sides they tend to lend themselves to that "smooth" style, where the chords don't have to change with every adjacent note.  Melodeon in-and-out playing takes a bit of work on a club, unless its one of the "little" models.  And, of course the Club/Steirische link is further reinforced by the fact that a lot of the tutorial and tab materials for clubs tends towards ländlers and waltzes.  

As for the half row: Its all the missing notes.  So you can play tunes in B and C# really easily.  

[butterfingers]

 Perhaps that's an answer to my question re Club boxes in G or D...I would imagine that the Stierische accordions [closest thing to a Club] might be in those keys...also, as a footnote to my previous post, with a Bflat Club you can play tunes in G, D, A, etc. by using the helper row [the chords don't work unless you're into free form jazz]' you'll just be playing melody,but it can be done, in my case very slowly.

[Miklos Nemeth]

I would imagine that the Stierische accordions [closest thing to a Club] might be in those keys

Steirische accordions in A/D/G are very popular. The Schaborak (one of the best) Steirische tutor book, for example, can be ordered with an accompanying CD for A/D/G, G/C/F or Bb/Eb/Ab accordions, very handy. It is the English, Irish and French who play every tune in only one pitch  . 
The only way to get a Hohner Club-system accordion in D/G is to get one retuned from C/F or Bb/Eb.
Miki

[waldoB]

There's a very clear, informative and useful guide to the development and playing of the club system at :
delaguerre dot com Musician's Guide to the Club System. Note the chords on the pull, and shortcomings of the basses. Just another step towards a BCA or G/C anglo and some more fingers.

[IanD]

What about the Club bass end?

The club system bass end is certainly an odd duck, by any standards.  It's much less versatile than the melody end.  It works pretty well in the home keys, and because of the "extra" chord (the push Eb opposite the draw Bb on a C/F box) it can play pretty easily in Bb.  However, the lack of switches to pull the thirds limits the possibilities somewhat.  Even on the big fancy clubs the registers, if I'm not mistaken, just add and subtract reeds to and from the full chords.  Those clubs with extra bass buttons don't extend the chord range much, but I've never played one, so I don't know how that works out when one is actually using the thing.  There are a few clubs out there with stradella basses.  If I'm not mistaken Dino Baffetti have a club box set up like this.  Similarly Brazilian gaita pontos are club-tuned on the right but frequently with some version of a stradella on the left.  But again, I've never played one, so I'm not sure how that really works out.  Renato Borghetti plays a gaita ponto with stradella bass and seems to get along nicely with the arrangement.  Some of his tunes are quite catchy. 

Overall, just another compromise. 

When Theo first converted my Preciosa to D/G I kept the gleichton and the push F chord on the bass end, which is useful for playing tunes in D minor/D major (Scandinavian) and C -- but had all the thirds replaced with a second fifth reed to avoid the need for a stop or the thin sound you get by taping off the thirds.

All this worked well and the gleichton was useful in some tunes, but I found this was outweighed by having to relearn the fingering (not just the tune but also RH chords) for far more tunes, so the gleichton is no more.

Then I bought a Steirische with Helikon basses in A/D/G/C and the issue reared its ugly head again -- if I remove the gleichtons on this I have to play more push-pull, and since it's roughly the size and weight of a wardrobe...

Ian