Experiments in Bass control

[j.w.forrest]

Here's a recent quote from Chris Ryall in the thread:The Melodeon & 1st or 2nd class citizen?

"Speaking as someone who has had to take criticism and try to change, I'd offer that a lot of the bias against our instrument springs from its weapon of musical mass destruction - a stolid left hand. The left end is often very loud, and can completely hogtie other instruments trying perhaps to do something light with the music."

 Although I think Chris is referring more to the operator here than the instrument, I firmly agree that this can be a problem with the melodeon. My experience is quite limited, of course, to the old and makeshift boxes in my stable, and not having a  population of players in my environs, I do not have opportunities to try out other instruments. It seems that there is no way to exert subtle control over the left side, basses especially, of most boxes I have played. The one exception is my Pistelli, which has basses and chords that are soft and almost subliminal, and smooth linear button action on the left side.
   I have been slowly renovating an old Hohner wooden 3-row box that I obtained from a 90+year old neighbor years back. The treble side is very sweet, but the basses are totally overpowering. The button action is an all-or-nothing situation, in other words, very difficult to modulate. Tap or hold down a bass button, and out comes an avalanche. (A polka player's dream). Not only that, the basses seem on the higher end of the spectrum. I tried stopping the low reeds, and the box did sound a bit better, but the upper bass reed is so high, it blends right in with the chords or lower trebles, so it's almost irrelevant.
   I have tried the easy fixes, felt baffles, blocking some of the left side grille, etc. The reed sound of the basses is much like a Helikon style, only instead of a deep Tuba sound, I'm getting a trombone or baritone horn, which is loud enough to be heard through the bellows. By trying to open the bass pallets partially, I have noticed that there are spots where the bass becomes softer, but still enough air to remain in tune. I am now working on this tack to try to soften the bass to (my idea of) a reasonable level., I am experimenting with partially blocking the openings at the base of the reed block by different degrees to see whether or not the volume can be reduced by air flow without making the reeds go off pitch. I am also considering (but have not attempted as yet) to slightly decrease the set of the reeds in question so they will still sound quickly with a decreased volume of air.
    Has anyone else had experience with this? I would be grateful to hear of any useful tips to achieve a better balance between right and left (sounds sort of political). All comments welcomed!! Thanks for reading this....................................jwf

[michik]

I think these old boxes from german speaking countries are designed - expecially the treble/bass balance - for the music played in those countries ... not single notes, but two or three notes ... have a look at the old german club melodeon tutor books. Same  issue with the three-row boxes
for example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-Ta5xAcrTE, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTok0fs71VI

I noticed this on my Club IV, which has a very mighty bass end, but a quite sweet teble end ... the balance is much better if two or three buttons are pressed at once.

The solution would be to reduce the power of the bass-end.

[j.w.forrest]

The solution would be to reduce the power of the bass-end.

That is precisely my intention. I think you are right about the type of music played. If one were to perform in a large hall full of noisy people (Hofbrau Haus, perhaps) you would want major power. I guess I'm trying to tame a party animal... :

[Chris Ryall]

I was (in shame) refering to myself. I think I was a real menace a few years ago and I think some still find me a rather loose cannon. I'm sure one can leaven a left end by muffling it, but that isn't really musicianship, is it? 

Technical, (as opposed to mechanical) tips I've absorbed over the years ..

• Tap rather than press the basses ("pretend they're red hot")!
• Vary as much as you can - drones sound surprisingly light
• Pay as much attention to lifting the finger as pressing it
  Try for bass .. chord[lift-finger]..silence as a rhythm
  Regard that lift is as much a rhythm event as the press
• Bring in bass runs where you can (just watch Anahata)
• Never play bass chord chord; bass chord chord; .. in 3 time

These sort of things can lighten the 'unseen' end quite a lot. I have to say that increasingly in sessions I'll often not play left chords at all but vamp my chords on the right with just a bass note. This fosters 'creative' bass. and allows the chords to be broken - arpegio'd - stripped to a bare tonic/5^th, played in a cross rhythem (but not too much!) or varied to add a 7^th (much richer sound) - or a suspended note  with resolution.

This sort of approach seems to have stopped people physically moving away from my left, and even brought the odd comment "what a nice light way of chording" - though not too many

[Anahata]

the basses seem on the higher end of the spectrum. I tried stopping the low reeds, and the box did sound a bit better, but the upper bass reed is so high, it blends right in with the chords or lower trebles

Did you try stopping the high reeds instead?
The low reeds are actually less audible, and they also respond slower, so you should find that a short sharp tap on the bass button will get you a real reduction in volume because the reed won't have time to get up to full power.

Apart from that... what Chris said. Just leave some gaps in between the bass notes and chords. Deciding where to play and where to leave them out opens up a whole world of music creativity....

[Clive Williams]

I am experimenting with partially blocking the openings at the base of the reed block by different degrees to see whether or not the volume can be reduced by air flow without making the reeds go off pitch. I am also considering (but have not attempted as yet) to slightly decrease the set of the reeds in question so they will still sound quickly with a decreased volume of air.

I'm sure someone with a sound knowledge of mechanics will shoot me down here, but I'm not sure that will make much difference. I think all you'll get is the air going over the reed with more pressure... which may be the opposite of what you want! It'll decrease the amount of sound when a treble note is being played for sure (because more will go through the treble holes), but on those occasions where you've got a bass note down and no treble down, you might get an unpleasant surprise.

    Has anyone else had experience with this? I would be grateful to hear of any useful tips to achieve a better balance between right and left (sounds sort of political). All comments welcomed!! Thanks for reading this....................................jwf

On my Hohner Club I had much the same problem when I first got it. In a very unsubtle way, I put some cardboard (cornflake packets probably, can't remember) on the inside of some of the sound holes on the bass end to deaden it a bit.

Cheers,

Clive

[Bill the Farmer]

My wife's Lilly has a piece of cardboard a bit smaller than the bass end cover fixed to the inside of the cover with spacers. Probably adhesive foam pads. Put there by a previous owner. It's stayed in there because it works very well to tone the bass down a bit.

[strad]

Sorry, Bill. When I read your post I didn't take in the 's after wife - That brings an amazing drift to your post!!

Nigel
 

[j.w.forrest]

Thank you Chris, for the tips on technique. I will confess that my manipulation of the left end is rather rudimentary. I, and certainly others will benefit from them. I appreciate what you and Anahata have posted in this regard and will use it in future as reference.
   However, it still doesn't address the fundamental concern I have, which is the overpowering dominance of the bass on my particular box. Even a 'tap' on a bass button lets loose a HONK like the horn of a diesel truck. If a melodeon is an ensemble in a box, I think of the Loffets and Galliards as chamber groups or woodwinds, Hohners are the brass section. Steyrische boxes are full parade dress military band.

I am experimenting with partially blocking the openings at the base of the reed block by different degrees to see whether or not the volume can be reduced by air flow without making the reeds go off pitch.....

I'm sure someone with a sound knowledge of mechanics will shoot me down here, but I'm not sure that will make much difference. I think all you'll get is the air going over the reed with more pressure...  It'll decrease the amount of sound when a treble note is being played.............. but on those occasions where you've got a bass note down and no treble down, you might get an unpleasant surprise.

 I don't believe that I play bass notes much without some other reeds sounding, Clive. So what I'm betting on is that this will divert air flow from the bass reedblock only to other reed blocks that are sounding. Too much restriction could 'choke' the reed similar to note bending on the mouth organ. I'm seeing if there's a balance that won't require any serious or permanent modification. All experiments so far are completely and easily reversible.

On my Hohner Club I had much the same problem when I first got it. In a very unsubtle way, I put some cardboard (cornflake packets probably, can't remember) on the inside of some of the sound holes on the bass end to deaden it a bit.

  Your club has a warm soft bass as heard on the recording . What brand of cornflakes was that?  

[Steve Fox]

• Never play bass chord chord; bass chord chord; .. in 3 time

Oh dear.  I seem to be unwittingly the perpetrator of a serious melodeon crime.  I admit it, m'lud, I do occasionally resort to bass chord chord.  Does that make me mad, bad and dangerous to know?  Do I need to kick the habit before it takes hold?

[ganderbox]

• Never play bass chord chord; bass chord chord; .. in 3 time

Oh dear.  I seem to be unwittingly the perpetrator of a serious melodeon crime.  I admit it, m'lud, I do occasionally resort to bass chord chord.  Does that make me mad, bad and dangerous to know?  Do I need to kick the habit before it takes hold?

Sounds like you might be OK if you do bass chord chord just the once, but if you do it twice in a row it could be a sign that you need help.

[/list]

[Chris Ryall]

Sounds like you might be OK if you do bass chord chord just the once, but if you do it twice in a row it could be a sign that you need help.

Spot on    Think it becomes a felony only if you do it all the way through. The tip is from Stéphane Milleret, not me. The emphasis was also his.

[Clive Williams]

Sounds like you might be OK if you do bass chord chord just the once, but if you do it twice in a row it could be a sign that you need help.

Spot on    Think it becomes a felony only if you do it all the way through. The tip is from Stéphane Milleret, not me. The emphasis was also his.

Heh heh - this guy seems to do ok, doesn't he?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcNTVnAaEpA

Stephane is using a very light touch for the chord chord bit though, isn't he? Lots of space in the bass.

One of the things I love about melodeon playing - there's no hard and fast rules. You take ages unlearning a particular technique so you can play like player X, then player Y comes along and shows you what can be done with what you were doing in the first place!

Cheers,

Clive

[Clive Williams]

  Your club has a warm soft bass as heard on the recording . What brand of cornflakes was that?  

At least I never go hungry at gigs! 

Clive

(PS: Oh, and I cheat - I place the microphone off to the right a bit to balance the treble and bass better when recording.)

[Steve Fox]

Sounds like you might be OK if you do bass chord chord just the once, but if you do it twice in a row it could be a sign that you need help.

Spot on    Think it becomes a felony only if you do it all the way through. The tip is from Stéphane Milleret, not me. The emphasis was also his.

I'm afraid I am guilty as charged, Chris.  Take a look at this, if you can bear it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWsqzzp1Mxo

Any tips as to how I could be more subtle would be much appreciated!  Sorry for the thread drift by the way.

[Anahata]

Any tips as to how I could be more subtle would be much appreciated!  Sorry for the thread drift by the way.

Drift?

My take on waltzes, mazurkas etc: if you make the melody line incredibly smooth without gaps between the notes, you can get away with really short bass notes and chords - that way the bass is out of the way and all the smoothness comes from the RH side. Maybe practice getting the RH smoothness by itself, without playing the basses, so you can concentrate on what you are doing.
Actually you can have gaps between some of the notes, but only at the right places - the end of the bar often works.

You can also make the bass note on the first beat long, but the two chords very short; this is particularly appropriate for waltzes where the main emphasis is on the first beat, perhaps not so much in mazurkas where the second beat is the important one. But it's what Delicq is doing in that video.

I played L'Inconnu in France last year for a group of English and French dancers; I joined this forum too recently to contribute it for TOTM at the appropriate time but maybe I'll have a go anyway, a bit late...

[Chris Ryall]

I feel the same as Anahata (who's bass I admire greatly). You have to work out a chord run for the left end to have something to play against and have bellows in right direction.  I then try to focus on right hand, get it smooth, few embellishments, that sort of thing.  While I'm sorting out a RH line I try to simplify LH maybe to drones or a ".. cha .." .

When you reassemble (not always a conscious process) you should now regard the bass end as 'decoration' and put back notes and short chord chuncks only where they sound beautiful. Let your ear judge that.  I'd speculate that's where Anahata''s lovely bass runs might start to come in, but he'd need to engineer bellows direction changes for some of them!

"White space" seems to be the key to it.  Bear in mind that a bit of silence (or the termination of a chord) is as much a rhythm event as hitting the button. I've googled a bit - my O&B left hand attempts had a different focus but I found this ...

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpxfjUBjRhk

Nice LH shots - notice how the fingers spend more time off the buttons. Also found same tune played against a dumm cha cha (and nicely played too) for contrast

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=og64-v54xlo&NR=1

btw Clive - it's Stéphane Milleret - Stéphe likes noise! But always breaks the rhythms up too.

[j.w.forrest]

"White space" seems to be the key to it.  Bear in mind that a bit of silence (or the termination of a chord) is as much a rhythm event as hitting the button.

I agree wholeheartedly with this Chris, thanks for bringing it up. One thing I have learned thru TotM and viewing myself on video, is that what I am seeing and hearing is not quite the same as what I heard myself performing. I'm finding that I was trying to fill the performance, when I should be trimming it......

[Bill the Farmer]

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=og64-v54xlo&NR=1

Lovely music, but I was mesmerised by the wonderful railway images. Even an image of Corfe Castle from the Swanage line. 

[Bill the Farmer]

I agree, the other one is better, but no railway images.