Hohner Panther... problems abound!

[cpsmart]

Jury's in!

Pros:
-  Buttons no longer sink into the keyboard.
-  Bellows surprisingly supple.
-  Totally airtight.
-  All operable notes are sweetly tempered, chords in bass very mellow.
-  Surprisingly lightweight.
-  Seems sturdy as a Hohner ever was.

Cons:
-  Three reeds are stuck in three different notes in the treble side and they will not sound.
-  One bass note (the G note of the chord) won't sound at all.
-  The 4 highest notes in the F and C rows are noticeably flat, painfully flat on the F row.
-  The action is pretty stiff, especially in the bass.
-  Thumb strap is enormous!  I could fit a sausage through this thing.
-  Buttons are very high, feel squared, and must come down to be comfortable.

I've been playing new out-of-the-box stringed instruments since I was 12 years old, and I understand setup issues with new arrivals.  Accordions aren't any different.  I could fix the stuck reeds easily enough but it seems like such a hassle for a new box.  I've received others in the mail without issues like these.  So I'm sending it back on my lunch break Friday, because I don't think I should have to invest my own time to repair the stuck reeds, etc., or invest more time and possibly money to have a technician examine it in order to preserve the warranty. I enjoyed the German paperwork in the box, it's all quite reassuring, but Hohner really needs to pay someone on the American end to inspect the instruments for quality control.  Other companies employ this practice.  Products should be inspected as they leave the factory, and reinspected by a qualified paisano of the importing nation upon arrival and before being sent to dealers.  Luckily the warehouse for Musician's Friend is in Salt Lake City so the refund should come by Tuesday.

At any rate, what's the old adage?  Ah, yes.  "Play it before you buy it."  In this case, importing a new box through a dealer who can set it up as part of the sale price is worth every penny in the transaction.  

Accordion technicians: the few, the proud, the indispensable.  

Sum total, the Panther could be a solid accordion with the usual tweaks, but for playability right out of the wrapping I have to give it a D-.  It's back to fleabay for me  

[waltzman]

I got a mail order Panther a couple of years ago and the only really significant issue with it was the relativley poor tuning which I think is true of almost all factory tuned Hohners. As with yours, the higher reeds seemed to be the worst.  I expected to have to tune it so that didn't bother me too much.  During the process of tuning it I was very impressed with how well made it is and what you actually get for $350.  A replacement bellows would cost you nearly that much for any other Hohner.  The action is very easy to adjust due to the removable back plate.

[nfldbox]

I know it can cost a lot but this thread seems to reinforce the purchase of boxes from small makers and/or small dedicated shops. I have never encountered one of the latter who is not absolutely devoted to customer satisfaction.
(Now someone is going to write in about John Smith in Teakettle Nebraska who sells unplayable Castagnaris)

[HallelujahAl]

The action is very easy to adjust due to the removable back plate

I think that they are very good value for money boxes - and yes, easy to fiddle around with if necessary. My El Rey del Vallenato reminds me of my first ford escort mk3. Yes folks, I'm that old.
AL 

[Bananayogi]

No matter what the selling price is, I think it is fairly shocking that any manufacturer would sell a box that wasn't properly tuned. That is the least I would expect.

Some people might be prepared to dismantle a new instrument and have the knowledge and equipment to tune it, but that is the tiny minority. So the majority of users are going to have to pay to have it tuned or play an out of tune instrument. Very poor.

[Québécois]

How many times do we have to say it: You get what you pay for!!!

[waltzman]

No matter what the selling price is, I think it is fairly shocking that any manufacturer would sell a box that wasn't properly tuned. That is the least I would expect.

Some people might be prepared to dismantle a new instrument and have the knowledge and equipment to tune it, but that is the tiny minority. So the majority of users are going to have to pay to have it tuned or play an out of tune instrument. Very poor.

Different people have widely differing tolerances for 'in tune'.  A "good" tuning on an accordion is relatively labor intensive and therefore adds a lot to the cost of a factory made instrument.  The Hohner factory tuning is OK for a lot of people especially if you are just learning and as such the Panther is a very good value.  For those who are more particular The Panther plus a tuning job ($100-$150 I believe) is also an excellent value and a much better approach in my opinion than buying a factory tuned chinese Corona for twice the money.

[Rees]

The Corona Classic and Corona Xtreme are both made in Germany and the tuning is very good.

The Chinese made Hohners are often way out.

[cpsmart]

I was most bummed because if the reeds weren't sticking, and the other reeds weren't out of tune, then the Panther would have been such a nice no-frills accordion.  The reeds that were tuned properly had been tuned at a very sweet interval and it was built like a tank.  For the money it's a good value and considering the competition, very rare indeed. 

I've played several other Chinese entry level three-row boxes by other makers and the Panther pretty much blows them away in terms of the overall quality; given what is wrong with the Panther I received, I think that says a lot about the quality of what is being offered by competitors like Gabbanelli (US), Sofi Maria, Scarlatti, etc. many fo which are probably made in the same Chinese factories.  If Hohner would only put a few good men on the job to inspect and test the boxes once they entered the country, then they'd really have a unique position in the market with a quality product at a low price.

I plan to tinker with any instrument that I buy so that the action and hand/thumb straps are set up to my preferences so those things didn't bother me (though I felt like imparting them in my initial post as a comparison to older Hohners).  I didn't so much mind a wider thumb strap or a bass strap that was high enough off the end plate to accommodate Andre the Giant.  And I lower the buttons on all my accordions.  But the tuning was pretty bad - 'way out there' is a good way of describing it, and that was my main gripe.  For a new instrument to be sent directly to a consumer, that's pretty much inexcusable.  I'm not very particular about tuning, not nearly as particular as a player of a dry tuned bow might be, because I like to play the Hohner factory tremolo which is pretty wet.  But these notes were so out of whack that even through the tremolo, each note above the octave C and F notes sounded almost a quarter tone flat.   

So in the future I'll be going the traditional route, and buying my Hohners from dealers/technicians who are sure to tune them before I take one home.  All in, it was a good (and ultimately free of charge) learning experience with one of the new products from Hohner. 

....though I'm still writing them a letter. 

How else are they to control what comes out of the factories?

[GCFMan/Steve]

I also have a Panther, also from Musician's Friend (they had a totally great price last years Xmas time) and it has been only good news. 

The worst you can say is that the tuning can be a little variable (e.g. the G on one button pull vs. the G on another button push have imperfect vibrato and also, well, it is hard work playing, lots of travel, not an efficient user of air, hard to play quietly.

BUT, hey, for less than US$400 with hard case, delivered, a lot of fun.

[acctech]

When it comes to the bottom line, does anyone know of a single new accordion model that comes anywhere close to the value associated with the Panther at it's price range? If so I would like to know.

[cpsmart]

I can't think of one, which I was disappointed with the bum tuning (not being picky here, it was very poor) and stuck reeds on the one I received, straight from the factory. I guess that's the problem, though -- I got mine straight off the production line, and like any other instrument, factories don't do setups. Buy it from a dealer who can spot tune it and then put it on the shelf, and you have a very nice instrument.

[melodeon]

I have long been a Hohner fan and have owned at least 2 dozen over the years. I currently have 5 of them dating form the 30's to the 60's.  I consider any accordion, even a Castagnari to be a kit in need of some fiddling.
But as I have related here in the past I got a serious dog of an accordeon from them that was in need of repairs, not adjustments, and the tuning was the worst I have ever heard on any new box.. so it happens to others as well as Hohner.  Castagnari declined to participate in correcting its ills, so much for warranty..and caused me to sell all my Castagnaris and swear them off for over 5 years.
Is not tuning covered by warranty???
Part of a products "value" is the manufacturers  willingness to cheerfully correct failings in a timely manner without excuses.

I have played the Panther, and have played them where they were acceptable and not so good.
I do not contest Hohners value, however an out of tune accordeon at any price is not a good "value" if the cost and inconvenience is passed on to the buyer, and this certainly does not help a manufacturer either in cost or reputation.
And, if some are properly tuned, it proves the point that Hohner can do it well some times. .. so consistency seems
to be an issue with the Chinese made boxes.  If a manufacturer is not going to do it "right" why bother with the product at all.
Because the Panther is entry level and relatively cheap is no excuse for poor quality control and does not justify the price or cause the
incorrectly tuned and inoperative components to be acceptable.

Historically I have found Hohner to be a "stand up" company going as far back as Rick Epping, and that is certainly the case today with Gilbert Reyes at the helm . It appears that their attitude is quite simply.. "what can we do to help". Not what can they do to get rid of the problem.  ( This is my experience having been a factory rep for 2 well known German companies who made high-line cars.)

If you like the accordion, why not
A. Exchange it for another.
B. Wait until Gilbert and Tim are back for the Conjunto Festival in San Antonio and see if they can help

Of all the inexpensive entry level 3 row Chinese boxes on the market, I still consider the Panther to be the best of the bunch.

Best of luck.

[jilly]

Hi,

Everyone likes a bargain,a lot of people buy from away using the internet then expect everything to be perfect.
These establishments who sell over the internet cheap are like the stack them high supermarkets,buy in bulk,sell out cheap and work the percentage system to how many returns they will get.
There will come a time when repairers and retailers in this country will have gone,or will snub sorting out these boxes or will charge a fortune.
You may pay a bit extra for a similar box from a reputable retailer but chances are it has been checked and slight adjustments made before you get it.

I had an example recently with a new accordion I was supplying,the coupler on the slide which operates the larger bass reeds had jumped out making that bank of reeds not work,checked it over,fixed the problem,customer happy.

Pete.
Acorn instruments

[HallelujahAl]

Yep agree with  Pete. I bought a new Hohner El Rey del Vallenato (basically a three voiced version of the Panther) last year. But sensibly I bought it from Rees Wesson of this forum who is able to import and deal hohner boxes in the UK. There was a slight problem with a bass reed which Rees had sorted in less than five minutes flat. Other than that original difficulty (which can happen with any box) its been fine. Had I bought it off the internet my guess is I'd have been most unhappy having to pay extra to get the thing fixed. As it was I got an excellent deal on price from Rees - a brilliant box - and great service - stonkin'!
AL

[melodeon]

Know thy dealer !