Melodeons in Scotland (or lack of...)

[Old Leaky]

In a contribution to another thread about Fergie MacDonald I pointed up the lack of 2-row button box players here in Scotland. Here is more evidence (if any was needed) of this sad state of affairs.

I came across a leaflet setting out the 2009/10 programme for the Edinburgh based scotsmusic group and was amused (sic) by the sections on "Accordion - see Piano Accordion" and "Melodeon - see Moothie"!!!. The latter goes on, under the section headed "Absolute Beginner & Melodeon": "Melodeon players (preferably in the key of C) are welcome to come along." C? C? Aaaaargh!!!  

[NeilA]

Melodeons appear to be making up the numbers. Are moothies in D or G not the most popular keys? I've just bought a loud Hohner HA1040 off ebay and it's in C - maybe I'll enrol and drown out the moothies!

I always fancied having a go at Scottish step dancing - might try it in the Autumn.

All looks very "cultural".

Neil

[Drumkilbo]

Go back 60 years or so and in my area, Angus, and further North in Aberdeenshire and further South in Fife and the central belt there were lots of 2 row players and an awful lot of them progressed onto the 3 row, most of them were my father's and grandfather's generation. I'm 55 and I probably know possibly only 10 sook and blaw players younger than me, there's still a lot of them a lot older than me but not going out to play so much now. All the musicians I've ever worked with in dance bands have always been 15-20 years older than me except for Bruce Lindsay and Scott Band [20]. On the upside, when we play throughout Scotland and the North of England, the 3 row is still very much revered and admired.
As an afterthought, were there many melodeon players in England in the 40s and 50s, and was there any one player at that time that influenced today's players ?

Ian

[Gary]

When I stand just outsdie the house practicing on my DG pokerwork I do get people who stop for a chat and mention they recall the older generation playing a button box. I am in Grantown on spey and yet to find another up here who plays DG two row . Never mind, I do go to a fortnightly local session and manage to blend in with other musicians so there is hope.

[oggiesnr]

If you get a chance visit Bogbain Farm on the A9 overlooking Inverness and have a look at their collection of accordions which includes a few one row "bothy boxes"

Steve

[Rob2Hook]

Our PTA band are surprised at how often an ex-pat Scot will come up to say how much they enjoyed hearing a bothy-box again.  The four-stop really suits simpler Scottish dance tunes that we use for our "agricultural" English dances!  We also get gigs from the Caledonian Society, who agree that for a small gathering of non-dancers, the melodeon and concertina playing Scottish tunes gives more lift than a PA.  Horses for courses, I guess, but I prefer Jimmy Shand's earlier recordings with a bit more edge to them, played on a one row or two row.

Rob.

[Drumkilbo]

I played for about 6 years with one of Jimmy Shand's heyday fiddlers [Jimmy Ritchie, quite a family connection there as Ritchie's brother, Jock and my Dad were friendly rivals at the highland games, Caber, Hammer etc.] and Ritchie always preferred the Shand band pre-1960 as he said it had a natural wildness aboot it, afore the BBC kinda mellowed it. Shand had to make a living, and as he moved away from his natural folk music and recorded things like the Tango La Cumparsita accompanied by Jack Emblow and other London session musicians, his bread and butter was playing at dances throughout the UK, Scottish, Irish, English and Old Time and a bit of modern.
Not knowing the background to the English melodeon scene, other than JK was in awe of and influenced by Shand, I ask again, were there any great melodeon players in England who influenced the players of today, if not then where did the present scene come from ?

Ian. 

[oggiesnr]

Just as there were "source" singers who provided material for the sung folk revival there were pockets of traditional english musicians some of who played the melodeon and were recorded.  So amongst his other instruments, Scan Tester played melodeon (and fidle, anglo and bandoneon) and there was George Tremain who played for the North Skelton Sword Dancers for example.

I mind editions of "English Dance and Song" in the late sixties and early seventies which always carried adverts for Hohner Ericas (in G/D) aimed at the growing number of Morris Teams and musicians and certainly all the melodeon players I met back then (including JK) came from a dancing background.  In fact Mally's first books were for playing melodeon for North West and Cotswold Morris.

The first festival I attended would have been Cleethorpes c1970 and there was a definite split amongst the sessions, in the bar there were fiddles, whistles etc playing Irish music (led by the late and greatly missed Pat Nealy) and outside on the pier there were knots of other musicians with the box players down the bottom end of the pier knocking hell out of morris tunes.

Steve

[Anahata]

Not knowing the background to the English melodeon scene, other than JK was in awe of and influenced by Shand, I ask again, were there any great melodeon players in England who influenced the players of today, if not then where did the present scene come from ?

Your original question mentioned the 40's and 50's, and I'm not aware of any English melodeon stars, certainly nobody of Shand's stature back then.
If you're asking who the influential English players are, a little later we have Bob Cann and Tony Hall. Then John Kirkpatrick, and later still Andy Cutting. Honourable mentions too for Pete Coe, Dan Quinn and Rod Stradling, all of whom have been influential on a wider front than just as melodeon players. And on a smaller scale there were the East Anglian players like Oscar Woods and Percy Brown whose music has been taken up and revived by Katie Howson, Simon Ritchie and others.

I expect I've forgotten some important ones...

[HallelujahAl]

I ask again, were there any great melodeon players in England who influenced the players of today, if not then where did the present scene come from ?

Ian. 

I can't really answer that question Ian - as my knowledge is limited - but the English Folk Revival of the 1950s & 60s seems to have been a real powerhouse in forming and educating most of today's best English melodeon players. Topic Records (the 'little Red record label') was, despite its many detractors, was probably the most influential factor in promoting JK etc, and fostering a revival in the 70s of Morris music with the success of things like 'Morris On' (1972) and 'Plain Capers' etc and the very individual success of JK - and other bands like the 'High Level Ranters' etc.

Essentially I don't think the influence of JK should be underestimated in bringing the melodeon out of relative obscurity and into the mainstream within the English folk tradition. I personally am not aware of any great 'English' melodeon players before 1939 - except for Scots & Irish players like Shand and then the Wyper bros etc before him. But, having said that - what do I know? What I do know is that in the early days of The Salvation Army (from around 1878 - 1920s after which brass banding became the norm) both melodeons and concertinas were played in order to lead the singing in street gospel meetings in the open-air. The pic below is of a group of hallelujah lassies taken in 1902 taken before they launch forth to declare the gospel to the good people of Tring! What I love about the pic is the wide variety of instruments being played - by a bunch of very beautiful lassies if I may say so! I'm looking to start my own revival 
AL

[Theo]

I ask again, were there any great melodeon players in England who influenced the players of today, if not then where did the present scene come from

I think the answer must be that there was on English player of the stature of Shand, or we would all be talking about her/him.

In the northeast of England two of The Shepherds Willie Taylor and Will Atkinson at various times played melodeon,  but in later years when they became known nationally they stayed with the the instruments they were better known for of fiddle (Taylor) and moothie (Atkinson).  Incidentally Will Atkinson was Jimmy Shands cousin.  He used to say he could never be as good as Jimmy because he was born one day later, and so had less opportunity to practice!

[mab]

Have just started trying to learn the D/G Melodeon up here in Edinburgh (I looked hopefully at the melodeon classes with the Scots Music Group too. Ah well!) and have met a couple of D/G melodeon players who do sessions in the area (but sadly don't want to teach). However, give us time and there'll be a few more provided that you don't want to hear anything other than 6/8 jigs. Just discovered that over half my rapper side have started learning the D/G melodeon as well. (Hive mind at work I think).

[Steve_freereeder]

.....And on a smaller scale there were the East Anglian players like Oscar Woods and Percy Brown whose music has been taken up and revived by Katie Howson, Simon Ritchie and others.

I concur with Anahata's choice of Oscar Woods and Percy Brown, but I suggest that their influence extended well beyond East Anglia. When I started playing the melodeon in the early 1980s, I was living in west Wales at the time, yet the people I played with knew many of Oscar's and Percy's tunes, as well as traditional Welsh tunes.

I have a sneaking suspicion that this might have been due to the influence of a certain member of this forum, formerly in the Llandeilo area (I think) - famed in recent years for his wonderful Cajun/Zydeco style and making superb one-row melodeons.  

[Drumkilbo]

Interesting replies to my query. I knew Willie Taylor well as he used to come to ceilidhs up here and I knew Willie Atkinson even better through our own playing at Wooler and Rothbury accordion clubs, a great character and superb moothie player and as you point out Theo, a fine tuned sense of humour. The rest seem to be comparatively recent and it seems odd in a way that Beltona and Parlophone, both London based recording companies, did so much to promote Scots accordionists and their bands and then moved onto the Beatles etc. I have a few 78s of concertina player Alexander Prince but I can't remember if he was English. I suppose 'Morris' has brought more people onto the melodeon as well. I'm aware of Jack Armstrong [and the Barnstormers , wasn't it ?] and I know Malcolm Milner [PA] and the Hoghton band from Lancashire as I played a few double jobs with Rob Gordons band and his in Leyland with George Harrison calling the English dances. From what I've seen and heard of your work, Anahata, if I was starting out now, that's probably what would make me want to go out and buy a melodeon and learn it !

Ian.

[oggiesnr]

I can't really answer that question Ian - as my knowledge is limited - but the English Folk Revival of the 1950s & 60s seems to have been a real powerhouse in forming and educating most of today's best English melodeon players. Topic Records (the 'little Red record label') was, despite its many detractors, was probably the most influential factor in promoting JK etc, and fostering a revival in the 70s of Morris music with the success of things like 'Morris On' (1972) and 'Plain Capers' etc and the very individual success of JK - and other bands like the 'High Level Ranters' etc.

Morris On was actually released on Island Records I think due to the Ashley Hutchings/RT connection was also Fairport Convention's record label.

Anorak now away  

Steve

[HallelujahAl]

Morris On was actually released on Island Records

Yup true - my mistake, but I think my general point was that Topic were very important during the 70s in promoting the instrument - especially through the likes of JK?
AL

[graememackay]

My opinion of the lack of melodeons is down to the introduction of the 3 rows.

When all we had were 1 & 2 rows, that's what the popular players plaid such as Shand, Hannah etc.  When Jimmy was selling double rays, everyhouse had one.  When the Shand Morino was introduced, it had the best salesman in the world...

Melodeons were probably traded in or put in the loft and weren't looked after in preference to the 3 rows that the bands were playing on the radios.

Big 3 rows are harder for kids to pick up, hence less players evolving.

Had there been more melodeon playing band leaders sticking with their original choice, things might have been different.  But the b/c/c# 3 rows were much more versatile and powerful which makes it the obvious choice.

[Bill Young]

There are probably more 2-row players about than one realises. I keep coming across people in this part of the world who play the 2-row that I didn't previously know about. Most say "I jist play in the hoose", i.e. they're closet players. My daughter's father-in-law is one such, with a nice little Borsini BC that he hardly ever ventures out with. A recently-late player near Kilmarnock had 3 2-rows. A girl has just joined one of the music groups I go to. I've known her alter ego for a number of years - she's an artist - without realising she has been playing BC longer than I have. An acquaintance at an accordion and fiddle club said recently "I've got myself one of those wee Stephanellis, just to play in the hoose, ye ken". I see someone with a recently-acquired Hohner Double Ray has just joined this forum. So they're hereabouts, but generally keeping a low profile.

What seems to happen is that many players who want to play in groups, or in public, quickly gravitate to the 3-row, because that's the instrument of choice for the music. That's where the hot-shot young players are: in no particular order (pace "Coom Dancing") Graeme Mackay, Norman Mackay, Alexander Lindsay, Brandon McPhee, Robert Nairn, Graham Irvine, Bruce Lindsay, Ian Cruickshanks . . .

[Graeme]

In a contribution to another thread about Fergie MacDonald I pointed up the lack of 2-row button box players here in Scotland. Here is more evidence (if any was needed) of this sad state of affairs.

I came across a leaflet setting out the 2009/10 programme for the Edinburgh based scotsmusic group and was amused (sic) by the sections on "Accordion - see Piano Accordion" and "Melodeon - see Moothie"!!!. The latter goes on, under the section headed "Absolute Beginner & Melodeon": "Melodeon players (preferably in the key of C) are welcome to come along." C? C? Aaaaargh!!!  

Due to a lack of opportunities to play with other music learners in Edinburgh (or poor investigation on my part) I enroled in the PA class at SMG and trooped along with my Double Ray B/C. The tutor (Andrew Warren) was very welcoming and supportive of me coming along to try and learn some tunes and a bit about reading music. Eventually took my Gaelic along and got some input on the Stradella bass which was very helpful. Sadly I am no longer able to go to the classes but well worth a try if there's nothing else out there.

Graeme

[george garside]

I sell a steady trickle of my DG tutor 'DG melodeon a crash course for beginners' to   to people in Scotland.So as well as BCists there must also be DGists up there somewhere!

george