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Author Topic: Accordions with 4 voices, MMHH  (Read 2471 times)

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pgroff

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Accordions with 4 voices, MMHH
« on: June 24, 2010, 03:19:45 AM »

Would love to hear one of those boxes configured MMHH.  

Alright, once again I was guilty of thread drift in this topic:

http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,4328.0.html

As I mentioned there, I have seen a few pre-WW2, 4-voice, 1-row melodeons in G, with 2 sets of reeds that I would call "M" (comparable to the G row of a 2 voice G/C) plus 2 sets of reeds that I would call "H" (comparable to the G row of a 2 voice D/G).

Please, someone correct me if I am misusing the "M" and "H" designations here!

I think those melodeons may all have been International brand, but possibly one or more were Globes. Next time I am working in my storage space I will try to photograph one for melnet.

I also have a couple of nice Hohner 1-row boxes (ca. 1930s?) that are both in C, MMHH. Again, I will photo them when I can.

And quite a few 1950s D/C# Irish-American accordions were voiced LLMM in D, which is basically a fifth lower in pitch, and a similar voicing, relative to MMHH in G .... if you get my drift ;-)

The "octave-doubled two-voice" is an interesting sound that seems very uncommon among accordions being produced today.  Anyone else have examples to contribute?

Of course, you can get an idea of the sound by playing in simultaneous octaves on the right hand, using two fingers, on an accordion voiced MM.

PG

« Last Edit: June 24, 2010, 03:38:51 AM by pgroff »
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Andrew Culwell

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Re: Accordions with 4 voices, MMHH
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2010, 04:23:30 AM »

Paul, I think I am getting the gist of what your talking about.  Were there any boxes LLMM single row in the tradition?    I'm rather new at this and am fascinated by the different configurations of the different multivoice boxes.  I guess my question is does the "octave double two voice" lend itself more to Irish trad music or is the LMMH more suited?   I realize that much of this is personal preference.  
« Last Edit: June 24, 2010, 04:29:18 AM by ajay38 »
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Hohner's, Paolo Soprani red 4 voice, Paddy Clancy Celtic

pgroff

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Re: Accordions with 4 voices, MMHH
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2010, 05:28:17 AM »

ajay wrote:

Were there any boxes LLMM single row in the tradition?


Hi ajay,

Short answer, I have never seen what I would call a single row LLMM melodeon, though as I mentioned a good few 1950s  D/C# 19-key boxes were voiced that way.

But, I really don't know the whole variety of what was produced! I seem to remember Stephen Chambers was co-authoring a book on some of the melodeons, so maybe that will list more types.

Re: LLMM and MMHH, really these are related voicings .... I guess from lowest to highest in pitch I have seen:

D/C# in LLMM  ....    "low G" single row in MMHH   ....       C single row in MMHH

But probably many more versions of LLMM and MMHH were produced.

The post-WW2 Hohner 4-stop boxes that I have seen are all more or less LMMH, with the lowest I have seen in "low G."  I wrote "more or less" because the lowest notes of the low G ones I have seen are actually MMMH. Presumably the response (or audibility) of the bassoon reed wasn't found worthwhile on those lowest notes.

Possibly that's also the reason the pre-WW2 Internationals in low G that I have seen were not in LMMH -- they omitted the bassoon set altogether and substituted a second H reed set, resulting in MMHH.  Then, with the stops you also have the option to select from a MMHH to get either the 2 voice sound in low G, or the 2 voice sound in high G (among other nice options).  As we see today in G/C vs D/G boxes, each of those 2 voice, same-octave sounds for a G row can be useful in different situations.

I really like the sound of tunes played melodeon style on a multi-voice G row.  In fact, maybe a wonderful box would be a 6 stop, 6 voice in low G, MMMHHH: 1 each of M and H tuned straight, 1 each of M and H tuned up and 1 each of M and H tuned low -- providing the options of 3 voice musette in either low or high G plus options of nice octave voicings, maybe a couple helper keys on a partial inside row for F naturals and C sharps.....
Oops, there's that thread drift again.


PG
« Last Edit: June 24, 2010, 05:36:32 AM by pgroff »
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Lars

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Re: Accordions with 4 voices, MMHH
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2010, 04:06:56 PM »

Well, here's our own 'Boxlad' playing his black Walters D/C# LLMM:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8LoJmt-sNk

I haven't seen that one in the flesh, but I have seen one very similar - an identical LLMM D/C# red Baldoni Bros. owned by Stephen C.

The sound is somewhat dark, depending on the tuning (as I remember, the two lows were dry, with a little swing on the middle sets) but very nice. It lent itself towards playing very 'rough' and punchy, and really gives a solid push to the music.

Drifting out: I've also encountered a 6 voice box in D, LLMMMH where the two lows were tuned apart, so you had LM tuned flat, MH tuned straight, and LM tuned sharp. Also a very nice option, but from what I gathered, the tuning process was rather hard as it took some experimenting to find just the right amount of swing to get it to sound right. This sort of tuning was measured on an old 6 voice Globe where two notes showed no sign of being tuned, or even played much, suggesting it was the original 30's tuning.
The again, I've also seen a 6 voice Globe with LMMMHH setup, no notes on the tuning though.
My 6 voice Baldoni-Bartoli was originally LLMMMM (now LMMMMH), and from what I heard, the two lows were originally tuned a little apart as well as the M reeds having loads of tremolo.

Plenty of options with all those voices!
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pgroff

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Re: Accordions with 4 voices, MMHH
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2010, 05:26:13 PM »

Well, here's our own 'Boxlad' playing his black Walters D/C# LLMM:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8LoJmt-sNk

I haven't seen that one in the flesh, but I have seen one very similar - an identical LLMM D/C# red Baldoni Bros. owned by Stephen C.


Thanks, Lars!  And thanks to Ray (and yourself) for generously making the videos to share actual sounds of some of these accordions (that's beyond my technology here at present).  Re: the LLMM D/C# boxes, I love those ..... I had a few of those come into and out of the shop in MA, but again ajay was asking re: a 1-row in LLMM..



Quote

Drifting out: I've also encountered a 6 voice box in D, LLMMMH where the two lows were tuned apart, so you had LM tuned flat, MH tuned straight, and LM tuned sharp. Also a very nice option, but from what I gathered, the tuning process was rather hard as it took some experimenting to find just the right amount of swing to get it to sound right. This sort of tuning was measured on an old 6 voice Globe where two notes showed no sign of being tuned, or even played much, suggesting it was the original 30's tuning.
The again, I've also seen a 6 voice Globe with LMMMHH setup, no notes on the tuning though.
My 6 voice Baldoni-Bartoli was originally LLMMMM (now LMMMMH), and from what I heard, the two lows were originally tuned a little apart as well as the M reeds having loads of tremolo.


I recently saw an 8-voice 1-row D box in LLMMMMHH. The LL reeds were tuned straight, but the HH (piccolo) reeds were tuned high and low... a little too much for me! Blocking the wet pair of piccolo reeds, but combining the very wet MMMM plus dry LL was amazing, and, to my taste, adding HH *would* have made it better yet if those high reeds were tuned straight like the LL.

My own 8-voice D box is LMMMMMMH and my 6-voices are LMMMMM and LMMMMH.

PG

« Last Edit: June 24, 2010, 05:32:12 PM by pgroff »
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pgroff

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Re: Accordions with 4 voices, MMHH
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2010, 09:34:40 PM »

Hi all,

Here are a couple of very nice Hohner MMHH melodeons in C.  Despite the missing button, the grey one is a great player. The red one needs a strap but sounds good also.

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michik

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Re: Accordions with 4 voices, MMHH
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2010, 09:43:01 PM »


I recently saw an 8-voice 1-row D box in LLMMMMHH. The LL reeds were tuned straight, but the HH (piccolo) reeds were tuned high and low... a little too much for me! Blocking the wet pair of piccolo reeds, but combining the very wet MMMM plus dry LL was amazing, and, to my taste, adding HH *would* have made it better yet if those high reeds were tuned straight like the LL.

My own 8-voice D box is LMMMMMMH and my 6-voices are LMMMMM and LMMMMH.


My 8-voice 1-row is  LLMMMHHH ... I cannot say anything about wet/dry tuning, the reeds where all loose, when I have got it
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Michael Knapp ~ Vienna ~ Austria
Playing on "Parigi Giovani" G/C (made by Bompezzo) - My recordings: http://www.onmvoice.com/mknapp
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