Mini Melodeon Project

[Lester]

I've never really seen their appeal; an expensive toy IMO.

Ollie, that is the point.
G

 

[TomB-R]

Thanks for the info on making bellows Tom, its useful. The couple of issues I had when making a set with pre-folded card were:

1. Cutting the block of card accurately. I don't have a band saw, so I found it very difficult to cut straight. I tried a mitre saw, a tenon saw and even I very sharp knife, and all left the cut wonky.

2. The metal corners. Obviously they come opened wider than you want when they are in place, but I found if I squashed them with pliers then they lost their 90 degree angle, however I don't have a press either, so they too are a bit wonky.

I'm sure these issues can be overcome, but I'd be interested in your opinions.

Yes, I appreciate a bandsaw is a luxury, even though mine's just a little benchtop job! A friend with one is just as good! It's literally a 5 minute job.
Sorry, It's not helpful to go on talking about equipment, but if using a handsaw I think something really sharp like a japanese saw would be best, a little ikedame is really useful.
Whatever saw, I think I'd make a mitre box with the angle I wanted with the saw slots cut by the saw I was using for the card.  Worth making the mitre box no wider than needed but too long, then one can have several goes at getting the slots right!

[Edit]  When cutting the mitre one wants the card "block" firmly compressed to get clean cuts, so it needs to be clamped into the bottom of the mitre box, or between two pieces of wood held with bolts or screws if using a bandsaw.

Yes that's the exact same prob as I had with the bellow corners! Ideally one would buy them the right channel width to just slide on, or after a tiny bit of opening, then just squeeze in the edges without disturbing the bottom curve of the U, using plier jaws with a hole through. (They go on very easily in that "Making a diatonic accordion" video.)

My improvised "presswork" involved putting the corner over a piece of metal filed to shape, squeezing the channel to the width I wanted, (which opened up the right-angle), then clamping a piece either side so the U couldn't open up, then putting a piece of steel angle over the whole thing and belting it with a hammer to restore the right-angle! 60-something times! (Did I mention that bit got a little tedious!)

[melodeon]

It is my understanding that the MIGNON  in stock configuration has dural or lesser quality reeds..
unless yours was custom ordered.

I have made some bellows using some card stock I found at a .local art dealer.. it was a discontinued material.. so
no longer available.  Similar to a grey card but with some body.
My next step... because I ,too ,   so thoroughly enjoyed  bending and cutting the card...is mto order prefolded bellows  card stock.

[emrock]

Richard! I may have to take you up on using the bandsaw! I'm in Norwich by the way. Oh and yes its much smaller than a toy, the ends are 108mm/78mm

Noce to know you had the same issues as me with bellows Tom. The other thing (that I forgot to mention before) that I found difficult was the bellows tape. I tried spray glue (useless), that special paste stuff (also uselss) and finaly settled with wood glue (ough I had to use lots of clamps for each piece and it took forever). So I'd be interested to know how you did this also.

Whether I buy pre-folded or fold my own crd I still haven't decided. Either way I'm pretty set on making bellows, its cheaper, and I can use my own fabric (normally William Morris).

The rest of the prototype is coming on well. I have a treble end (minus levers etc) and most of a bass box, so should have pictures as soon as I've got a camera to hand.

Emma

[Prestidigitator]

It is my understanding that the MIGNON  in stock configuration has dural or lesser quality reeds..
unless yours was custom ordered.

Until this spring, when I reluctantly sold it because I didn't use it much, I had a Mignon in D. It was to the same specification as Lester's (but not layout, of course), was "standard supply" and had tipo a mano reeds. I don't think Castagnari make them any more, as they don't appear on their website. The smallest box is now, I think, the Giordy.

It was certainly a gorgeous little jewel of an instrument - a veritable "object of desire" - beautifully made and a lovely sound. It definitely could not be described as a toy!

[melodeon]

I did a little research and it was the Giordy I was thinking was dural or lesser.

I stand corrected and now recall the MIGNON  did have the tipo a mano.

Shame these are no longer made.

[TomB-R]

Noce to know you had the same issues as me with bellows Tom. The other thing (that I forgot to mention before) that I found difficult was the bellows tape. I tried spray glue (useless), that special paste stuff (also uselss) and finaly settled with wood glue (ough I had to use lots of clamps for each piece and it took forever). So I'd be interested to know how you did this also.

I just used Polyten PVA from Axminster
http://www.axminster.co.uk/polyten-pva-glue-prod22032/
Creased each tape piece down the middle, ran a bead of glue, spread it, (I'm only describing that bit to confirm there was nothing ingenious!) and the "tack" was strong enough to install the strip. No clamping, just rubbing it firmly once in place. Perhaps the fast 10 minute claimed tack of this glue made the difference.


I hadn't realised quite how small you're going! Wow, it's going to be dead cute! I guess that with 20mm folded card you'd have about 30mm card "hinge" along the bottom of each fold on the short dimension.  Might get a bit fiddly if your folds are any deeper than that?

[Mike Averill]

I did a little research and it was the Giordy I was thinking was dural or lesser.

Dont underestimate dural reeds. If they properly fitted and tuned  they equal and beat many "TIpo a mano" reeds. The Giordy sound is easily confused with a good concertina. Great box for festivals. The label on the reeds is irrelevant, its the sound that counts.

[diatonix]

There is no such thing as dural reeds. All modern reeds are made from steel in different qualities. In most cases, these reeds are riveted on a plate made from duraluminum ("Dural), expensive a mano reeds as well.
When it comes to Italian reeds, there are 3 main categories: A mano (hand made), tipo a mano ("almost" hand made) and voci commerciali
(the cheaper ones, usually easily recognized by the rivet which doesn't show the distinctive hammer blows).
There are also different categories of a mano reeds: Standard, Bombate and Tirate (the latter being VERY expensive). Binci, to my knowledge and experience, only provides standard. But then, again, I'd rather have excellent standard reeds than mediocre bombate or tirate...

[melodeon]

There may be no such thing as  "dural" reeds, And yes I understand this applies to the reed frame as does "avional" etc..
however..
some Accordeon makers say they use "dural" reeds... as the quality just below tipo a mano

DURAL is a term that has been in use for many years

http://www.castagnari.com/index.php?strparam=&language=uk&sz=300

There may be no "dural" reeds, but according to Castagnari, there are "super dural"

Perhaps you might want to contact them and straighten them out.

While your at it...
contact these guys too, they seem to be confused

http://www.harmonikas.cz/

I know of no accordeon maker using the term "voci commerciali"  .. though it may be common to reed makers, to my knowledge , it is not in general use  by accordeon makers or dealers.

[diatonix]

Reed makers and accordion makers are (in most cases) not the same. The term voci commerciali has a negative ring to it and is therefore not used by accordion makers, especially when they decide to put them into their products: "super" sounds a lot better...
If the Czech are confused, so be it.

[emrock]

[ukebert]

[Lester]

Has he? Bugger, I was going to order some stuff off him today

He was just off for 3 weeks (I think) when he posted my supplies on Wednesday.

[TomB-R]

[emrock]

hurumpf! I was putting off starting the bellows

[TomB-R]

hurumpf! I was putting off starting the bellows

       Know what you mean!

[ukebert]

Has he? Bugger, I was going to order some stuff off him today

He was just off for 3 weeks (I think) when he posted my supplies on Wednesday.

Rubbish

[melodeon]

So,   when the "dural" quality reeds ( as designated by a manufacturer)  have the hammer marks of a "tipo a mano" or an "a mano"
are these  " super commerciali" ?  Or as someone else has suggested... faux , fake, smoke and mirrors ?

My thoughts are that unless you are in the loop in Italy... information is open to interpretation.

While "commerciale" may be a part of the lingua franca of reed makers, it certainly is not in  common use by accordeon makers, dealers, buyers or players.

What?  No overly pedantic unsubstantiated  retort ?    

[Broadland Boy]

hurumpf! I was putting off starting the bellows

Gulp! (thinking of a ton of old iron betwixt me and using the bandsaw) Had you thought of some nicely hand fretted endplates as a starting point before thinking of cutting & folding all that nasty old card ??

Richard