Useful exercises and workouts to improve melodeon playing?

[Steve Jones]

I've taken up the idea of playing scales but I have a question about the fingers being used.
I understand Theo's idea of just using one (index) and four (pinky) or even one finger scales, as recommended by John Kirkpatrick.
If I'm using all four fingers is there a recommended sequence? I notice that in Dave Mallinson's book D/G Melodeon Absolute Beginners he suggests that there are 4 main ways to move fingers up or down -
change - when a single note is played twice - obviously doesn't appertain to scales
cross - when finger one crosses finger two to move up the scale or vice versa i.e. 2 crosses 1
stretch - a finger reaches further than the button it is hovering over
miss - miss out the hovering finger and use next finger up or down
As I have little chance to visit workshops I was wondering if there was a standard way when practicing scales?
Or should I use a mixture of Dave Mallinson's movements?

I don't have Mally's book and I don't play D/G but maybe these tips will help:

Try playing scales using a variety of strategies, they will all help to develop your mobility and command of the keyboard. You will have gathered if you've been following my previous posts in this thread that I'm not big on using the 4th finger and in scales, esp. on one row, I think it just gets in the way.

The "change" strategy does apply to scales, btw, and indeed is very useful, because most of the time you'll be playing two notes on one button.

Here's one method I was showing to some beginning students recently, for a first-octave scale of D on the D row, using two fingers only:

On every button (except the first) you change fingers in between the press and draw. Your hand will climb up the keyboard like a monkey, hand under hand - or finger under finger. The button numbers are for a 4th-button doh.

Code:

   Button Press/Draw Finger
D    4      P          1
E    4      D          1
F#   5      P          2
G    5      D          1
A    6      P          2
B    6      D          1
c#   7      D          2
d    7      P          1

You lead with your second finger.

Then come down again. This time you lead with the first finger. Again, the last button is the only one you don't change fingers on.

Code:

  Button Press/Draw Finger
c#   7      D          2
B    6      D          1
A    6      P          2
G    5      D          1
F#   5      P          2
E    4      D          1
D    4      P          1

See what you think of that! You can continue into the second octave the same way, using the 3rd finger just once, to play top C#.

Then practice the same thing, but using fingers 2 and 3 instead of 1 and 2. (Risto can try with 3 and 4 )

Then try a one-octave scale using three fingers, changing over from 3 to 2 between A and B. Then changing from 3 to 1 and going up further. And lots of permutations like that. Then look into how you can play the same scale with cross-rowing. Possibilities are endless, but no effort you spend on this will be wasted, in my view!

Steve

[Bryson]

Hi Steve
Thanks for that. Looks like I've got my winter activities  sorted out.
And as you rightly point out the "change" does apply to scales. Just shows how long it takes for the logical part of the brain to come to terms with the fact the 1 can equal 2. :)

[risto]

Yes there are different schools ....

Thanks Steve, this has been a very enlightening discussion. I checked my fingerings in the Dmaj version of the Silver Spire based on the "three strong ones" and using more jumping up and down. I found some spots where it makes a difference. However, where the tune plays in the second octave I'm going to keep the pinky playing in the couple of places which work just fine.

Last night I spent a couple of hours to find videos from Youtube which would show how Sharon Shannon uses pinky but couldn't find one.

[george garside]

I may be going a bit off topic here, but I had no idea that people would choose not to use their little finger for playing the treble side of the melodeon! I did play the piano (badly) as a child so perhaps that's why I did it 'naturally'.

I don't quite follow Theo's scales exercise, I haven't had time to try it on my box yet, sure it'll become clear when I do! (though my brain is addled enough already... )

I agree totally with Fee about using the little finger. Most little fingers are a bit on the week side so need to be put in training ( playing scales is one way - playing whole tunes with just little finger is anothr & drimming it on the table, steering wheel or whatever is handy also helps)  Not using the little fingr deprives you of a massive 25% of your prodding power which is a bit of a waste!  The thumb can also be useful in some circumstances giving a potential 20% increase in prodding power.

With regard to Theo's exercise the thing to remember is that with a standard undoctored DG layout  notes on the push repeat every 4 buttons all the way up and notes on the pull repeat every 5 buttons.  You therefore walk up the box in a crab fashion  starting with  fingr 1 on 3rd button & 4 on 7- push bellows.   next move finger 4 on to button 8 keeping 1 on button 3 -pull bellows.keeping finger4 on button 8 move finger1 onto button 4 - push bellows ----- That crablike motion can then be continued right up the box as it always puts you 4 buttons apart on push and 5 apart on pull.

It is also the key to playing in octaves i.e. prodding 2 of the same  an octave apart i.e. alays 4 buttons apart on push and 5 apart on pull.

This is another reason getting the little finger into trim is important.  The same technique cn be used on BC etc when playing accross rows to considerable effect  and was much used by Jimmy Shand.

george

[Steve Jones]

Welcome aboard, George - good to have you back!

[Andrew Wigglesworth]

** Warning, I'm going to be an awkward bugger and probably overstate my case    **

Hmmm, scales.  In all my years of playing I have never been requested to give a public recital of scales.

Is there some rule that the more esoteric or boring the practise is, the more "worthy" it is?

Surely, the technique that you need to play tunes on the melodeon is that which you use to play tunes on the melodeon.  If any tune required me to play a continuous scale over two octaves, then I'd practise that.  Since I've never come across a tune that requires that, I've never seriously practised it.

I well remember, as a young child at junior school, going along to recorder lessons where we were not allowed to play any tunes, just stultifying exercises to recorded "plinky plonk" piano music accompaniment.  I soon jacked it in and luckily for me was given a tin whistle by my father.  What a release!

Of course I'm not saying that *technique* should not be practised.  Triplets, runs (as you find them in tunes), getting the bass end going and all that.  That is,  stuff that you will actually find in tunes. Do I want to practise sterile nonsense that has no link to folk music? No.

[risto]

.... Do I want to practise sterile nonsense that has no link to folk music? No.

IMO two things are important in practises:

A. To learn to know the instrument.

B. Finger/muscle training.

Scales taste like work, practising triplets tastes like fun 

[Doug Anderson]

I play a D/G and have started playing every new tune I learn in both D and G. I play across rows a lot so one key is often easier than the other for a particular tune. For example, Mally's version of Sweet Jenny Jones is easy for me to play in D and not so easy in G. Working on the "difficult" key for every new tune is making me more comfortable with the instrument in general.

[trombonetom]

*and have started playing every new tune I learn in both D and G*

Sometimes this is not possible. i.e when you need to play a low E


*Sweet Jenny Jones is easy for me to play in D*

It sound nicer in D too i think.


Also, having learnt 5 instruments, in 3 of them my teachers made me do scales. I hated them and could see no logical reason for doing them.
I was still forced to do them and in my grade 7 trombone i scored a pitiful 9 out of 21 for them. Yuk!!


How do you create quotes?

[Doug Anderson]

*and have started playing every new tune I learn in both D and G*

Sometimes this is not possible. i.e when you need to play a low E

The pull E on the third button of the D row works fine for me in both keys.

How do you create quotes?

When I read the articles there is a "QUOTE" button in the upper right corner of the frame. It quotes the whole article. I just delete the stuff I don't want to include in the quote.

[trombonetom]

*and have started playing every new tune I learn in both D and G*

Sometimes this is not possible. i.e when you need to play a low E

The pull E on the third button of the D row works fine for me in both keys.

I meant the tunes in G that need a low E, when transposed into D they need a B instead. Thus, unless you have a low notes instrument instead of accidentals you can't play it, since there isn't a low B.

[Doug Anderson]

I meant the tunes in G that need a low E, when transposed into D they need a B instead. Thus, unless you have a low notes instrument instead of accidentals you can't play it, since there isn't a low B.

Those tunes can be played in the upper octave. That's what I do, and I'll be the first to admit that it sounds pretty squeeky. But the point of this exercise isn't to sound good, it's to become comfortable with the whole keyboard. The really bad ones are those I play in the upper octave of the G row, but that work will pay off when the G/C Lorelei gets here.

[GPS]

I had no idea that people would choose not to use their little finger for playing the treble side of the melodeon!

A bit late coming in here - blame Christmas!  I quite agree, Fee; it came as a surprise to me too that anyone would deliberately choose not to use the 4th finger. Surely the melodeon presents you with enough problems without handicapping yourself by depriving yourself of an entire digit? I know I couldn't play without using mine.  Still, if it suits some, then whatever floats your boat - I wouldn't dream of saying it's wrong, just that it's not a route I'd choose.

Incidentally, my teacher never told me anything - I didn't have one!  I just bought my first melodeon and got on with it, and whatever techniques or characteristics my playing may have acquired have either developed subconsciously or been stolen from someone else's playing.

Cheers
Graham

[brianread]

I also use my little finger all the time, as a left handed player, perhaps that might be more expected?

I also use all 4 fingers on the right (chord) hand.  I have the advantage (I think!) of having the G chord buttons on the first two fingers, and as G predominates I am not tempted to cross over the rows (on the chord end that is).  Whereas I can see that a right handed player might be tempted to use the stronger fingers on the lower rows.

 

[Johnf]

Octaves are actually rather simple: two keys between first and forth finger on push, three keys between fingers on the pull. To go up and down the scale, you only move one finger per note. You just "crab-walk" up and down the scale. 

I play Cajun mainly and octaves are the absolute core of cajun accordion playing. The rythmic high/low octave bounce, back and forth with timed bellows push/pulls are a signature sound as well. It is what hooked me on the music. In fact, I find playing in octaves to be much easier than playing single notes.  Octaves also leave you the two middle fingers for grace notes, triplets, four note squeezes and other ornaments.  Don't get me wrong, Cajun music also is done in single notes, especially that bouncing sound. Bellows techniques are very important to rythmn etc., but octaves are just plain fun.

[Andrew Wigglesworth]

I had no idea that people would choose not to use their little finger for playing the treble side of the melodeon!

A bit late coming in here - blame Christmas!  I quite agree, Fee; it came as a surprise to me too that anyone would deliberately choose not to use the 4th finger. Surely the melodeon presents you with enough problems without handicapping yourself by depriving yourself of an entire digit? I know I couldn't play without using mine.  Still, if it suits some, then whatever floats your boat - I wouldn't dream of saying it's wrong, just that it's not a route I'd choose.

Incidentally, my teacher never told me anything - I didn't have one!  I just bought my first melodeon and got on with it, and whatever techniques or characteristics my playing may have acquired have either developed subconsciously or been stolen from someone else's playing.

Cheers
Graham

It's an interesting question (the little finger thing I mean).  I've often looked at videos of Mairtin O'Connor and Jackie Daly, noticing the lack of little finger work.  I've also seen it live in other musicians.

Mairtin O'Connor, for example, can play at such a speed and accuracy that I can't see that being an inherent problem.  What I think it does do, however, is start to impose a certain style of playing.

I've been trying this out this three fingered approach on some slides that I've learnt from recordings of Jackie Daly and Eoghan O'Sullivan.  Impact has been very interesting.  You can hear the style of playing change, and the ornamentation (or lack of it) becomes more distinctive of their particular Irish style.

[Steve Jones]

Mairtin O'Connor, for example, can play at such a speed and accuracy that I can't see that being an inherent problem.

Well I would contend that the speed and accuracy exhibited by O Connor et al. is actually a direct result of using three fingers. This is based on my own experience.

Are you suggesting that using three fingers imposes a style involving less ornamentation? If so, I can't agree with you there. There's an interesting DVD tutorial by Peter Browne consisting mainly of demonstrations of r/h ornamentation techniques on a B/C. Some serious finger pyrothechnics at serious velocity - he never uses the fourth finger.

[Andrew Wigglesworth]

Mairtin O'Connor, for example, can play at such a speed and accuracy that I can't see that being an inherent problem.

Well I would contend that the speed and accuracy exhibited by O Connor et al. is actually a direct result of using three fingers. This is based on my own experience.

I'm pretty sure that argument couldn't be sustained, it can easily be refuted by people who can go just as fast with four fingers.  Speed isn't everything and I suspect that it's effect upon style is much more important.

Are you suggesting that using three fingers imposes a style involving less ornamentation? If so, I can't agree with you there. There's an interesting DVD tutorial by Peter Browne consisting mainly of demonstrations of r/h ornamentation techniques on a B/C. Some serious finger pyrothechnics at serious velocity - he never uses the fourth finger.

Nope, just that it encourages a different style and ornamentation.

[Steve Jones]

I'm pretty sure that argument couldn't be sustained, it can easily be refuted by people who can go just as fast with four fingers.  Speed isn't everything and I suspect that it's effect upon style is much more important.

You're probably right Andrew. It struck me in between the time of my last post and your reply that it could be that the reason the 3-finger technique makes such sense to me is that my aim is to play in the style of those Irish players - for all I know it could be a hindrance for playing in other styles!

If you find you can put into words what the tangible effect on style is, I'd be interested to hear your take on it.

[Folkiekay]

** Warning, I'm going to be an awkward bugger and probably overstate my case    **

Hmmm, scales.  In all my years of playing I have never been requested to give a public recital of scales.

Is there some rule that the more esoteric or boring the practise is, the more "worthy" it is?

Surely, the technique that you need to play tunes on the melodeon is that which you use to play tunes on the melodeon.  If any tune required me to play a continuous scale over two octaves, then I'd practise that.  Since I've never come across a tune that requires that, I've never seriously practised it.

I well remember, as a young child at junior school, going along to recorder lessons where we were not allowed to play any tunes, just stultifying exercises to recorded "plinky plonk" piano music accompaniment.  I soon jacked it in and luckily for me was given a tin whistle by my father.  What a release!

Of course I'm not saying that *technique* should not be practised.  Triplets, runs (as you find them in tunes), getting the bass end going and all that.  That is,  stuff that you will actually find in tunes. Do I want to practise sterile nonsense that has no link to folk music? No.

I like your way of thinking!  I agree too, as I couldn't hack just sitting and playing scales   I suppose I'd be a much better player if I could actually force myself to play scales and techniques, but I just like having fun with it and playing tunes that I like and that make me smile.  I think life is too short to spend it doing anything we don't like.  It's bad enough I have to work a day job, and then if I got home in the evening and thought I'd have to play scales, I wouldn't even be able to pick up my box and play.  I took 14 years of piano lessons from Catholic nuns, even though I was not Catholic, and the one teacher I remember best told me to not practice if I wasn't in the 'mood'.  She also told me to only practice the songs I loved the best.  I always thought she was the one of the most wise people I ever knew.  It was delightful to take lessons from her.  Over the years I've pretty much forgotten those teachers who forced me to practice scales and songs I didn't love, but I've always remembered her with a special fondness.