Useful exercises and workouts to improve melodeon playing?

[risto]

I would be interested to hear what kinds of workouts the advanced melodeon players do to improve their technical skills. What did your teacher tell you to do?

[Clive Williams]

I would be interested to hear what kinds of workouts the advanced melodeon players do to improve their technical skills. What did your teacher tell you to do?

One thing I was told many years ago was to play scales... sounds easy? Try making the scale go over two full octaves (no cheating and splitting it into 2 separate octaves), on the same row, up and down continuously, at speed. You'd be surprised how many people will struggle with the top octave, yet a decent mastery is quite important for being able to play a tune in the upper register easily.

Cheers,

Clive
 

[Theo]

One thing I was told many years ago was to play scales

Agreed.  And:

• scales in octaves
• scales played with one finger
• scales played across the rows
• scale in the bass buttons

[risto]

Very good points, thanks. Playing two octaves back and forth really isn't so easy as one might expect.

Slowing down tunes is a very good trick to hear what ppl are doing. For instance, when I recently transcribed the Silver Spire from Shannon's playing I now really paid attention to how lightning fast is her triplet. Instead of the normal three notes with equal note lengths, her triplet consists of two consecutive short notes after which comes a longer note. You can notate it with 1/16 + 1/16 + 1/8 notes in a midi file and make it sound almost the same but in reality her two fast notes are much faster.

I know she started as very young so it is impossible to get anywhere near to her standard starting now at old age, but any ideas what kinds of (muscle) practising methods are used for the triplet? Naturally it is repeat after repeat but I'm trying to figure out what to repeat:-) By repetition wrong things will get stuck in your brains as easily as the right things, or perhaps even easier. I'm using two fingers for the triplet (and always play with four fingers) which seems a must to me at this point. This is because with a triplet played with three fingers you easily get stuck in an impossible fingering situation for the notes coming after the triplet.

My question above is mess but I hope you can figure out what I'm actually asking:-)

Theo, what is the purpose of the one finger scale practise?


EDIT: So I guess I'm actually asking if there are any certaing drills to get the muscles work to play the triplets....

[Theo]

Theo, what is the purpose of the one finger scale practise?

Its a first step to playing in octaves.  This is something I'm working on, but I've not got very far.  To play in octaves I use my index finger finger for the low note, little finger for the high one, so the first finger goes up the scale at the same time as the little finger.  The added complication is that the fingers do not move at the same time!  so for a G scale:

Code:

Note   Finger    Button    Finger    Button   Push/draw
G       1           3           4           6          Push
A       1           3           4           7          Draw
B       1           4           4           7          Push
C       1           4           4           8          Draw
D       1           5           4           8          Push
E       1           5           4           9          Draw
F#      1           6           4           10         Draw
G       1           6           4           9          Push

Ties your brain in knots to start with

[risto]

Ties your brain in knots to start with

Heh, yes indeed:-) So did I get this right, you are 'climbing' the scale up with the index and pinky with the other finger changing button while the other is held down?

[Theo]

Exactly!

[risto]

Exactly!

Ok! This is a good parctise to learn the keyboard as well. It makes quite clear how the 2-4-6-7 notes shift away from the 1-3-5 pattern (from how they are layed out in the middle part of the KB )when you go upwards (or downwards) .

[BruceHenderson]

    I  agree with "scales and octaves".  There's another thing that I like, that "triangles"; because they develop fingering skills and you often use them in tunes.  By that, I mean play GABG, then ABCA, then BCDB, etc. up the scale and then back down.  Then, GBAG, ACBA, etc.   You'll find lots of variations and all are useful.  Play them up and down the scale, and try to work up speed and fluency.  Also, I like to play "missing notes" in the D-G area -- i.e. DFg, DEg, gED, gFD, etc. (on the 5-6 button, I mean) -- this is another place where you'll run into patterns in ordinary use that can be tricky if you don't have fluency with them.
   Charlie Pilzer says that these tunes are mostly scales and arpeggios anyway.  True, but it's the exceptions that often catch me out!
   BH, NC USA

[Steve Jones]

... when I recently transcribed the Silver Spire from Shannon's playing I now really paid attention to how lightning fast is her triplet. Instead of the normal three notes with equal note lengths, her triplet consists of two consecutive short notes after which comes a longer note. You can notate it with 1/16 + 1/16 + 1/8 notes in a midi file and make it sound almost the same but in reality her two fast notes are much faster....

So I guess I'm actually asking if there are any certain drills to get the muscles work to play the triplets....

Ah, the famous Sharon Shannon "raspberry"... Much as I admire her mastery of the keyboard in general, and her execution of this device in particular, I've no desire to emulate it (the raspberry, that is). To me, it's definitely a young dude(ss) thing - all the young hotshots are doing it and I reckon that if I ever mastered it (not sure I could) it would be the equivalent of an octogenarian sporting a platinum wig and a miniskirt :)

I prefer my one-note "trebles" to stay closer to the true 1/16th + 1/16th + 1/8th rhythm you described - using 3-2-1, I can get these very fast, even if I haven't found a way to get that farting quality, and am quite happy with them. The only situation where I've found 3-2-1 doesn't work is when you approach the treble from below and then have to follow with another note below. In that case I use fingers 1 & 2 e.g. Be e/e/e B could be fingered 13 2/1/2 1.

As for drills, it seems to me that to really get a raspberry you need to hit the buttons very fast and very hard. A possible exercise would be drumming your fingers on the tabletop until you can really get the required rhythm.

Tongue in cheek, since you're a four-finger devotee, I'd also suggest you practise them using fingers 3&4. Nice demonstration of why many Irish players recommend either eschewing, or not relying heavily on, the little finger.

Cheers
Steve

[risto]

I prefer my one-note "trebles" to stay closer to the true 1/16th + 1/16th + 1/8th rhythm]

You know what, I believe that if you practise enough the "true" rhythm on the melodeon, it will by itself gradually go towards the raspberry sound. I had this happen when practising triplets on the mandolin.

Tongue in cheek, since you're a four-finger devotee, I'd also suggest you practise them using fingers 3&4. Nice demonstration of why many Irish players recommend either eschewing, or not relying heavily on, the little finger

I'm in the lucky position that I have practised classical guitar drills for years and therefore find it very easy to play the melodeons treble side with four fingers (lefty guitar). Though the muscles are used in somewhat different manner I think I have some advantage from the previous practising.

Many use the  little finger quite a lot (in the Keanebox thread in the old forum James used too if I remember correct), so I don't understand why someone would want to eschew it. From another perspective, cosider that you have to play N notes in a certain time interval, having 4 fingers do the job they can be quite lazy compared to the only 3 fellas who must do the four mans job in the same time:-)

EDIT: So yes, I will take your advice and practise the 3&4, but I still quite don't know for sure what to practise for the triplets and how.

[Steve Jones]

Many use the  little finger quite a lot (in the Keanebox thread in the old forum James used too if I remember correct), so I don't understand why someone would want to eschew it. From another perspective, cosider that you have to play N notes in a certain time interval, having 4 fingers do the job they can be quite lazy compared to the only 3 fellas who must do the four mans job in the same time:-)

Well, it's whatever works for you. I can understand your point of view because it's the view I started with based on my experience as a fiddler, where the fourth finger (of the left hand) is invaluable. If you can really make the little finger contribute on the box, go for it. But watch a wide cross-section of good Irish-style players carefully - I think you'll be surprised at what you see.

I can only say that when I tried out the advice of a very good player to deprecate the little fella (advice I was initially reluctant to take, it seemed illogical and absurd), my playing really began to take off.

I reworked all my playing to avoid using the little finger wherever possible and have worked at the patterns I have developed for over two years now. I'd never consider going back to the way I used to play before "taking the challenge". I now allow myself to use the little finger, but only when no higher notes are needed in the phrase. Which usually works out to on high b only, and then only when there is a good reason not to use finger 2 or 3 instead.

I think it was Clive who was talking about practising scales. I do this a lot - every day in fact. And - for a straight up and down on the row scale - I have found that two fingers (1 & 2) can beat the pants off any other combination for speed and accuracy. But, whatever works for you.

[Jamie Robertson]

By repetition wrong things will get stuck in your brains as easily as the right things, or perhaps even easier.

Practice makes permanent--not perfect.

[risto]

... I reworked all my playing to avoid using the little finger wherever possible...

But isn't this how you do it with your fiddle too, use stronger fingers whenever possible and reasonable?

My thought of this is that the little finger is like a crutch which you use whenever it gives you some advantage over the 'not using it'. Now, to be able to use it (when you need it) you must train it.

In CBA accordion playing using the little finger is a norm, same goes with the piano, (with both they even use the thumb). Is there some particular reason why the melodeon would be so much different?

EDIT: Or could it be that our views are actually closer than what we think and we are 'arguing' about nothing.

Well, it's whatever works for you.

Yes, two fingers worked for Django Reinhardt

[Fi]

I may be going a bit off topic here, but I had no idea that people would choose not to use their little finger for playing the treble side of the melodeon! I did play the piano (badly) as a child so perhaps that's why I did it 'naturally'.

I don't quite follow Theo's scales exercise, I haven't had time to try it on my box yet, sure it'll become clear when I do! (though my brain is addled enough already... )

[Steve Jones]

[Bryson]

I've taken up the idea of playing scales but I have a question about the fingers being used.
I understand Theo's idea of just using one (index) and four (pinky) or even one finger scales, as recommended by John Kirkpatrick.
If I'm using all four fingers is there a recommended sequence? I notice that in Dave Mallinson's book D/G Melodeon Absolute Beginners he suggests that there are 4 main ways to move fingers up or down -
change - when a single note is played twice - obviously doesn't appertain to scales
cross - when finger one crosses finger two to move up the scale or vice versa i.e. 2 crosses 1
stretch - a finger reaches further than the button it is hovering over
miss - miss out the hovering finger and use next finger up or down
As I have little chance to visit workshops I was wondering if there was a standard way when practicing scales?
Or should I use a mixture of Dave Mallinson's movements?

[Ellison]

Theo said:
"To play in octaves I use my index finger finger for the low note, little finger for the high one, so the first finger goes up the scale at the same time as the little finger.  The added complication is that the fingers do not move at the same time!  so for a G scale:"

I think this is what Tony Hall calls the "crab walk".
May I suggest the "crab limp": Do the same but play the octave notes separately (i.e. play low G, then higher G, lower A, higher A etc). It's great for popping in octave ornamentation on runs.

Martin

[risto]

quote]
I think the answer is that the piano keyboard and the diatonic button box keyboard are really quite different. The length of the piano keys makes it much easier to use all the fingers. And your thumb isn't tied up in a strap or glued to the edge of the fingerboard. So why assume that all piano technique is bound to be transferable to the button box?

[Steve Jones]

That was a nice try Steve, do you have a similar explanation for the CBA playing?   

Well the layout of notes on CBAs is very different from our straight rows, and from what I've seen players hold their right hand at a very different angle. So there may be even less of a case for assuming that the fingering techniques for CBAs apply to diatonics.... 

Yes there are different schools and I have the John Williams DVD. Apart from the scale demos the place I noticed him using the 4th finger consistently was to play the def# pull triangle using 343. Works for him obviously!

I heard a quote from another prominent B/C player, Paddy O Brien: something to the effect you use your first three fingers in the lower part of the keyboard and the last three in the upper reaches - which I can see the sense of.

But the player who convinced me to go cold turkey on the little finger for a while put it this way - during a five minute lesson that I begged after a concert. He asked me to play and after about four bars he stopped me and said, in these exact words: "You have to stop using your little finger." I was gobsmacked...

I don't want to set myself up as some sort of authority or anything - nor paint myself into a corner: just today I was analyzing a passage and decided using that the fourth finger was the best way of tackling it - part of The Wheels of the World: ABce gece d3.... (on B/C transpose down a tone into C mix: GA_Bd fd_Bd c3) - it made sense to hit that g with the pinky rather than move the whole hand - for once

So I wouldn't try to propound a hard and fast rule against using the 4th finger - but I would say, based on my experience, that you can improve your playing a lot by learning to work without it. Making a conscious effort not to use it for a while will force you to get your hand moving much more, and the benefits of that are huge.