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Discussions => General Discussion => Topic started by: EastAnglianTed on April 24, 2014, 05:33:24 PM

Title: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: EastAnglianTed on April 24, 2014, 05:33:24 PM
    "his accordian might be brand new' but the Saltarelle has done massive damage to traditional music.
the sound is very "tinny" and weak on these modern accordians.
it will never be as good as the 9 coupler red Paolo Sopraini
it had a real heavy sound..
you could also change the tone on it.
it could also take more pressure for musicians who like to play at a faster tempo.
the Saltarelle is very light' and does not have the masculine quality of the Paolo Sopraini.
in my opinion' Sharon Shannon did some massive damage to the accordian.
she introduced the "weak" one."

    This was posted on this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNHvx-D00PA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNHvx-D00PA)

    Just wondering what peoples thoughts are regarding his comment...
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: Rees on April 24, 2014, 05:40:02 PM
I've never been too keen on the Saltarelle sound even though I was the first to import them into the UK back around 1987-ish.
Anyways, I thought that Sharon plays Castagnari and Hyde accordions.
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: GPS on April 24, 2014, 05:45:41 PM
    Just wondering what peoples thoughts are regarding his comment, is there any truth to it? Hmmm...

Ypu don't really need to ask, do you?  ;D
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: Gary Chapin on April 24, 2014, 06:27:03 PM
What do I think of Saltarelle's?  Aside from having one tattooed on my arm (http://accordeonaire.blogspot.com/2013/11/laccordeonaire-tattoo.html) ... I understand that the S brand has a checkered history, much talk of uneven production outcomes.  None of that, however, means any damage has been done to "the tradition."  Blaming Sharon Shannon for anything seems just stupid.

My Saltarelle is the joy of my life.
Title: Locked Saltarelle Post
Post by: Lyn on April 25, 2014, 08:57:46 AM
Sorry, not understanding why I cannot post a reply to this post. I just want to say what utter balderdash. I have a Saltarelle Nuage in DG, a 2-row 3 voice instrument with an exquisite tone. Everyone who picks it up and plays it - including Andy Cutting at a workshop, remarks on what a beautiful sound it has. There seems to be a hatchet job going on with this make of melodeon. There may be poor examples - I defy anyone to name a make that doesn't produce a duff series. But not all of them, and remarkably, when people make a negative comment about Saltarelles, I ask what it is they don't like and it turns out they've never held one let alone played one. Lazy and ignorant bandwagon commenting.I might add that my lovely Castagnari Mory doesn't have the lovely tone of the Nuage.

Who is this miscreant who then goes on to blame Sharon Shannon for introducing the make? (If she indeed did?)
Just another opportunity for those who love to have a go at SOMETHING, ANYTHING that they don't personally own, like or can afford. Play what you want, stop knocking other people's choices, and stop making out that you have such a superior technical knowledge of - well, EVERYTHING, that you can make sweeping statements as if they are The Law.

And now good morning, I have had my rant, in response to yours.
Title: Re: Locked Saltarelle Post
Post by: malcolmbebb on April 25, 2014, 09:21:21 AM
Without revisiting, I believe the post on here was a quote of a comment on the video on YouTube. The name of the person making the comment was included, if you scroll down below the referenced video.

I don't think the actual, somewhat opinionated ::), comment originated here, or as far as I know from anyone here.
Title: Re: Locked Saltarelle Post
Post by: Malcolm Clapp on April 25, 2014, 10:08:59 AM
I was about to comment on the Saltarelle post earlier too when I found it had been locked. Not sure why...

Anyway, as I read it, the YouTube comment hints, in a rather heavy-handed way, at his dislike of dry tuning as opposed to the "old wet Paolo sound".

While I'm sure that this trend cannot be blamed on Saltarelle, Sharon Shannon or any one else in particular, and if that was indeed the point, then I for one must agree with that sentiment, if not in the way it was put.

While the clip in question is excellent on so many levels, and I perceive a certain degree of wetness in the tuning (?), I find that I easily tire of hearing dry tuned melodeons everywhere I look these days.

Just my 10c worth. Maybe I'm just getting old and set in my ways; perhaps I should get some advice from Marge... except that thread is locked too.... :'(
Title: Re: Locked Saltarelle Post
Post by: Sage Herb on April 25, 2014, 10:16:23 AM
I am a fan of the Saltarelle sound. I prefer my prewar Hohners, but it's a close-run thing.
Cheers
Steve
Title: Re: Locked Saltarelle Post
Post by: Ray on April 25, 2014, 10:27:25 AM
...And now good morning, I have had my rant, in response to yours.


I don't think I've ever heard anyone say that every Saltarelle ever made isn't up to par in terms of quality - as you've said every make has its ups and downs.

However, I wouldn't say it was justifiable to suggest that every negative criticism of the brand is "lazy and ignorant bandwagon commenting". I've not really liked any Saltarelle I've tried, much in the same way I've not liked any Dino Baffeti's either, for varying reasons the boxes just don't do it for me. If the brands come up in conversation, I'm going to voice my opinion.

Also, I don't think bringing in what people can afford to spend on an instrument is fair. I can't afford a Castagnari nor a Saltarelle, that does not in any way influence how I feel about the instruments; and just because something is expensive does not make it perfect nor free from criticism.

Edited to quote post after thread merge
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: Theo on April 25, 2014, 10:47:10 AM
[[admin]]

The topic wasn't locked by the mods, so I can only assume that the OP locked it.  Since there is clearly interest in responding I have now unlocked it and merged Lyn's topic with the original.

Theo

Title: Re: Locked Saltarelle Post
Post by: Cooper on April 25, 2014, 11:36:32 AM
I find that I easily tire of hearing dry tuned melodeons everywhere I look these days.
That's probably because of all those people that are tired of hearing wet tuned boxes ;-)
W
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: EastAnglianTed on April 25, 2014, 11:52:24 AM
   Oooops I must've done that Theo, sorry I  am a berk- it wasn't intended sorry!  :D Cheers for the unlock!
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: TomB on April 25, 2014, 12:15:59 PM
What makes me think that the person who posted on youtube has a  "9 coupler red Paolo Sopraini" (sic)  they can't sell and it's easier to blame another make for the fact that few irish musicians want these 9 coupler boxes as they are just to cumbersome to play.
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: TomB-R on April 25, 2014, 12:47:23 PM
Overstatement and dubiously generalisations are pretty typical of Youtube comments, as we all know.  To say one prefers the sound of the big old style boxes over the modern ones is fair enough. If one liked the tradition as it was, then it's a change for the worse.
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: Pat. on April 25, 2014, 01:13:33 PM
I remember years ago when that big wet sound was the normal sound for Irish music ,and I love it ,but not all the time so I have both  wet 4 voice and a dry 3 voice,lucky me easily pleased. (:)
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: Chris Ryall on April 25, 2014, 03:01:19 PM
I had a good go on Saltarelles at the stall in Quimper last year, and also at Ch.d'Ars in 2012. The cheaper kit wasn't fantastic, I felt Bernard Loffets offered more for the money. Up range it was pretty good, and very fast. As for tunings, I personally like a dry sound, but that is surely a matter of taste and I don't really do Irish music.

Bad mouthing Ms Shannon in this seems a bit weird. I have only heard her play penny whistle (session in Galway) and that she does .. pretty well.

She plays melodeon as well?!! :o
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: Steve_freereeder on April 25, 2014, 03:18:07 PM
Bad mouthing Ms Shannon in this seems a bit weird. I have only heard her play penny whistle (session in Galway) and that she does .. pretty well.

She plays melodeon as well?!! :o
Oh Chris - where have you been all this time...  ;)
Sharon Shannon is an absolute ace on a Castagnari Tommy (BC tuning I think?)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsytbuFVo6E
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: Nick Collis Bird on April 25, 2014, 04:02:03 PM
I must admit I do love Sharon Shannon and that YT clip is great.
But do I detect that there is only one bass button or is it one White one and the others black?
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: Steve_freereeder on April 25, 2014, 04:14:19 PM
But do I detect that there is only one bass button or is it one White one and the others black?
Well spotted, Nick. I hadn't noticed until you mentioned it. If you freeze the YT video at 0:28 you can indeed see that there is only one bass button. The others have all been removed. There also seems to be a fair amount of black gaffer tape on the LH end.  :o

Edit:
In this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4QTmJB0VCw) she is playing a more modern box (note 'Cadburys'-style logo) with all the bass buttons and no gaffer tape. She still has her yellow sponge in the LH strap though!
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: Nick Collis Bird on April 25, 2014, 04:18:39 PM
Hmmm!......why?
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: Lyn on April 25, 2014, 04:28:19 PM
I have twice tried to reply to Young Ray's completely undeserved misrepresentation of what I said in my post.Both times there has been a red warning at the top about more replies ahead of mine and neither have posted.
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: AirTime on April 25, 2014, 04:29:20 PM
If there is a more beautiful melodeon tone in ITM than this, I'd be hard-pressed to come up with it ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pe1EjTMPl0Q
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: triskel on April 25, 2014, 04:53:37 PM
I suppose, for one thing, the accordion sound you like may depend on who your "God" (if you have one) on the box might be - and in my case that would be Joe Cooley (1924-73) on the two-row, who always played a 1940's/'50's/'60's musette-tuned (often 3-voice) Paolo Soprani, and Peter (P.J.) Conlon (1892-1967) on melodeon, who played a Globe "Gold Medal" on his earlier recordings and a Baldoni, Bartoli on his later ones. So those old, raw, full-blooded accordion sounds are the ones that appeal the most to me and those are my "ultimate" models of box, that I've sought out for myself (no mean task, you can't walk into a shop expecting to buy one, nor order a new one off the maker  :-\).

So I can sympathise, to a degree, with the sentiments expressed by the YT poster in finding the sound of the more "modern" style accordions too "polite" and in preferring a more traditional "old-school" sound (though he can keep his 9-coupler PS  ::)). But I'd wonder if he's not using "Saltarelle" as a generic term for what others might refer to as "Costalottis" and not really be specifically targetting Saltarelle after all, or maybe he simply doesn't know that she usually plays Castagnari accordions...

But I feel I really must point out that Saltarelle are quite categorically NOT accordion makers - their instruments have always been made for them in Italy, mostly by Dino Baffetti, and also by Serenellini for a while. There's a reason why the much-older French firm Accordéons Maugein (http://www.accordeons-maugein.com/) describes itself as "le fabricant qui fabrique" ("the maker who makes"... )

Saltarelle is a "brand" and not a "make" of accordion, and they are not made in France, but the company doesn't declare this.

Edited to add and not really be specifically targetting Saltarelle after all, or maybe he simply doesn't know that she usually plays Castagnari accordions and but the company doesn't declare this, and to add link to Maugein website
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: Ray on April 25, 2014, 05:00:25 PM
I have twice tried to reply to Young Ray's completely undeserved misrepresentation of what I said in my post.Both times there has been a red warning at the top about more replies ahead of mine and neither have posted.

I didn't mean to sound malicious in any way, I was just responding to what I got out of your post. The red warning just means to look below the boy you type in to read the new replies to the thread, just to make sure the conversation hasn't moved on or anything like that. You just have to hit the Post button again and it'll post :)
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: LDbosca on April 25, 2014, 05:04:59 PM
If there is a more beautiful melodeon tone in ITM than this, I'd be hard-pressed to come up with it ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pe1EjTMPl0Q

The Saltarelles MOCO plays aren't the same as the ones they flog to the plebs
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: triskel on April 25, 2014, 05:05:10 PM
If there is a more beautiful melodeon tone in ITM than this, I'd be hard-pressed to come up with it ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pe1EjTMPl0Q

That's a lovely Serenellini he's playing  ;), but I'd go more for this older Paolo Soprani tone myself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGzJdoMeoQY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGzJdoMeoQY)
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: triskel on April 25, 2014, 05:14:40 PM
The Saltarelles MOCO plays aren't the same as the ones they flog to the plebs

Having played Jackie Daly's one (which would have been made by Dino Baffetti) I can say I was seriously not impressed - in fact I've politely declined when he's offered me a tune on it since...
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: GPS on April 25, 2014, 05:15:51 PM
My Saltarelle's a Serenellini......
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: LDbosca on April 25, 2014, 05:16:46 PM
The Saltarelles MOCO plays aren't the same as the ones they flog to the plebs

Having played Jackie Daly's one (which would have been made by Dino Baffetti) I can say I was seriously not impressed - in fact I've politely declined when he's offered me a tune on it since...

His sounds unbelievably bad as well, I miss when he played a Paolo
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: Lyn on April 25, 2014, 05:20:03 PM
OK Try and keep my cool (it has been a very trying and long day already)

I am relatively new to melodeons. I don't have 'gods'. I know very very little about makers, brands, whatever, and have no 'position' to defend. Which I must say, many people on this lovely forum DO. People have their styles of playing and choose their boxes with that in mind - I had NO IDEA folks could be so snippy, or defensive about OTHER PEOPLE"S choice of instrument! Can I say here and now I DO NOT CARE what you play, I dont think less of you if you have a humble Hohner (not my words, the words of a Hohner owner who thought I was going to be disparaging about her box- why? ) neither do I think you are an ace player merely because you are fortunate enough to be able to afford a more expensive instrument. I DO get tired when people ASSUME I will look down on a cheaper instrument than the one I am lucky enough to own. And the little jibes and jokes about costalotties may have been amusing first time round butnow I think they are becoming shorthand for "don't think you are better than me because you have a posh box" OK, not going to labour this point it has been done to death elsewhere - which goes to prove it is alive and kicking.

However, my post here has been misinterpreted by Young Ray - who, I accept meant no malice. I forgive you, having fumed and boiled for ten minutes earlier.  Let me explain the "lazy, ignorant, bandwagon commenting" this referred NOT to anyone who has a genuine dislike of any instrument, and can say why, but those who I know have never held or played one, yet repeat something they have heard - hence my adjectives are spot on.

And I would NEVER assume anything about anyone's ability to pay more for a box, I did NOT bring up the topic at all, and I most certainly don't believe and never said, that expensive boxes are beyond criticism or that pricier is always better, where on earth on my post can you extrapolate that from??

I care not a jot whether a name is a maker or a brand or a subsidiary or where it has been made, and I don't weight any opinion based on these factors. Please don't ascribe thoughts to me which I have never had.I thought the chap commenting on YT was probably trying to sell his Paulo what sit and felt he ought to rubbish something else - and why not good ole Saltarelle as everyone knows they are iffy??
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: EastAnglianTed on April 25, 2014, 05:51:44 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGzJdoMeoQY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGzJdoMeoQY)

    That is a brilliant recording!

She plays melodeon as well?!! :o

    Rather well in fact!  ;)
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: gettabettabox on April 25, 2014, 05:55:20 PM
they say...''any publicity is good publicity''... ??...i'm currently trying to sell a saltarelle 'irish' bouebe in the 'buy and sell' section on here!!

Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: Mystery Jig on April 25, 2014, 06:25:19 PM
It wasn't that long ago when Seán Ó Riada was saying accordions didn't belong in traditional music at all. Time only flows in open direction and the thing that hurts traditional music the most is close-mindedness. You need a classic, expensive box to play? Tell that to Lemmie Brazil, or this guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoeG2-ZKLBQ
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: forrest on April 25, 2014, 06:33:49 PM
Here are my thoughts...the YT poster of the critical statements has added this comment: "What would Joe Cooley, have made of it, I wonder?"..... For some reason, he has such a strong conviction of his opinion, that he even seeks the departed to somehow agree with him. I would step away from this sort of thinking, and return to what we know is sane...that is, that we all have and enjoy our instruments, in whatever diverse shape and form they manifest, and continue to play the music we love, and never fear.  (:)
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: Lyn on April 25, 2014, 06:37:23 PM
Forrest: ABSOLUTELY ABSOLUTELY ABSOLUTELY.
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: GPS on April 25, 2014, 06:40:17 PM
I must be missing something here - I really can't see why people are getting steamed up. Of course people have personal preferences, but I don't recall there ever having been brand snobbery here on melnet; in fact quite the reverse - people are generally genuinely interested to learn why player A favours box X while player B prefers box Y. Now personally I'm not keen on Castagnari; I don't much like the sound, and the few I've played have been heavy and disappointingly unresponsive, but I'm quite happy to accept that a huge wodge of the melodeon world thinks otherwise. No problem. I happen to like my Saltarelle (well, Serenellini actually) because it's light. bright-sounding and suits my style of playing - no other reason. I also own half a dozen Hohners, and to be honest I prefer the sound of any one of them over the Saltarelle. I tend to play the Saltarelle much more in public simply because its action is so effortless - the exception being when I need to play in a key other than D or G & friends (yes, I know it's not impossible on the Pastourelle, but life's too short - or at least too busy - to get my head round that particular can of worms). Having said I'm not keen on the generally dry to swing Castagnaris I'm equally unattracted by the dripping wet 4-voice Paolo sound. Top and bottom is we're all entitled to our own likes & dislikes; one man's meat......    I do think the YT poster, whoever s/he was, was a bit of a pillock, but that's his/her problem, not mine, and I can't be bothered to get worked up about it.

Peace, sisters & brothers(still a bit of a hippie at heart!)

Graham
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: AirTime on April 25, 2014, 06:44:58 PM
Quote
It wasn't that long ago when Seán Ó Riada was saying accordions didn't belong ion traditional music at all.

I have to say, one of the things that fascinates me about the accordion (in its various guises), is the way it managed to position itself as a "traditional" instrument ,in a whole variety of different musical traditions, in what was essentially a very short time. I'm guessing that at the beginning of the twentieth century, when the modern accordion - piano, diatonic, chromatic button etc. - reached its mature form, it must surely have been seen by all traditionalists as a new-fangled "high-tech" instrument?
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: Ray on April 25, 2014, 06:47:15 PM
And I would NEVER assume anything about anyone's ability to pay more for a box, I did NOT bring up the topic at all, and I most certainly don't believe and never said, that expensive boxes are beyond criticism or that pricier is always better, where on earth on my post can you extrapolate that from??

For that I construed that from: "SOMETHING, ANYTHING that they don't personally own, like or can afford". In retrospect I probably read into it wrong, I've had a long day too, I've been awake non stop from yesterday, so I apologise.
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: Lyn on April 25, 2014, 07:09:43 PM
Okey-dokey, and mine for the rant.

GPS - I agree with you.In general. But speaking as a newcomer with no background baggage, I'd say there is a smattering of what you call brand snobbery - usually of the inverted kind., even from some of the very nicest venerable chaps on here.  And the reason I got steamed up was, if you make a statement which is misconstrued, and then commented on, you do feel the need to put things straight. I love my Saltarelle, and rate it over my Mory for sound, but I played a suberb Hohner Pokerwork at Mendlesham the other week and I'd have snapped it up if it hadn't belonged to Helena! So that's where I am coming from.
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: triskel on April 25, 2014, 07:09:58 PM
It wasn't that long ago when Seán Ó Riada was saying accordions didn't belong ion traditional music at all. Time only flows in open direction and the thing that hurts traditional music the most is close-mindedness.

He described accordions as "Designed by foreigners for the use of peasants" - but he was over-stating his case for the sake of argument and actually had two box players in his group Ceoltóirí Chualann - Sonny Brogan and Éamon de Buitléar (who I met a couple of times and talked to about this), so (in reality) he couldn't have been all-that opposed to them. It seems though, that he did have problems musically with the typically discordant cross-row ornamention and the limited "ready-made" basses/chords of the button box.

Quote
You need a classic, expensive box to play? Tell that to Lemmie Brazil, or this guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoeG2-ZKLBQ

Absolutely not! There's many's a good tune played on an old Hohner, and Bobby greatly misses that old G one that got drowned, in the boot, when his car was in a flood.

But these days he plays a Mélodie one-row 4-stop and a custom-made B/C by Bruno Priez.

Mind you, back when Lemmie Brazil got hers, or when I started out, the Hohner was probably the most expensive box in the shop - in fact I couldn't afford a Hohner at the time and had to buy a cheap brass-reeded Klingenthaler instead...

Edited punctuation
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: triskel on April 25, 2014, 07:47:41 PM
Blaming Sharon Shannon for anything seems just stupid.

OK, I confess, mea culpa, it's all my fault - I'm the one who's done massive damage to [Irish] traditional music (which is what this is all supposed to be about, isn't it?), by selling Castagnaris in Ireland 20-odd years ago, and introducing Sharon to them - just don't tell the guy on YT ;)

I'll probably burn in Hell for it now!  >:E

But please don't let them make me play a Piano Accordion when I get there...  :o
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: sqwzboxstudent on April 25, 2014, 08:36:35 PM
You should all go out and buy " carnival float " stylee melodeons
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: AirTime on April 25, 2014, 09:21:16 PM
From the other angle: I found this video of an unusually wet-tuned Mori at Liberty Bellows interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9Dd2Wn4QuI


Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: Malcolm on April 25, 2014, 10:18:21 PM
I still get a lot of pleasure from playing the Berry I bought in Cleckheaton 15 or so years ago. Not too dry tuned and just the ticket for certain gigs. I certainly have no complaints about its playability or its build quality, especially when it fell down the steps of the Crooked Billet in Leigh-on-Sea many moons ago (not with me attached I hasten to add!) with naught but a bit of cosmetic damage to the joinery. But the fact that all my other boxes are Hohners of a certain age maybe says something about where my melodeonic preferences lie.....?
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: Lyra on April 26, 2014, 12:07:40 AM
Spawn of Satan  >:E

Where can I get a sponge? Clearly that's also a thing I should have - is there a Guinness branded one yet?
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: Pete Dunk on April 26, 2014, 12:10:55 AM
But speaking as a newcomer with no background baggage, I'd say there is a smattering of what you call brand snobbery - usually of the inverted kind., even from some of the very nicest venerable chaps on here.

My 'posh box' is an old rebadged Serenellini and I'm very happy with it. As a newcomer to the melodeon Lyn you may be unaware that Saltarelle is just a badge name, a French company that uses other makers to produce melodeons for them. Serenellini and Dino Bafetti have both produced instruments for Salterelle in the past and I'm not sure who is making boxes for them at present. If you post pictures of the box we may even be able to guess who made it but one thing I'm fairly certain of is that it wasn't Salterelle themselves!
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: triskel on April 26, 2014, 01:02:17 AM
Blaming Sharon Shannon for anything seems just stupid.
OK, I confess, mea culpa, it's all my fault - I'm the one who's done massive damage to [Irish] traditional music (which is what this is all supposed to be about, isn't it?), by selling Castagnaris in Ireland 20-odd years ago, and introducing Sharon to them - just don't tell the guy on YT

No, why should I take the rap?

Let's blame Tony McMahon - it's always Tony's fault!  ;)

This is "when the rot set in" - the moment that Irish box players discovered there were other accordion makers in the world, apart from Hohner and Paolo Soprani:

(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/StephenChambers/Accordions/image_008.jpg)
Joe Burke and Tony McMahon discover the new French accordions - Listowel Fleadh 1985

The French makers Bertrand Gaillard and Bruno Priez came to the All-Ireland Fleadh in 1985 to display their wares, and I've still got the price lists they gave me at the time.

It even made it onto the front cover of the Comhaltas magazine Treoir at the beginning of 1986:

(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/StephenChambers/TRE-1986-1original-page01.jpg)

And there was a short piece inside, about their coming and how Tony McMahon had produced a TV programme about them too:

(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/StephenChambers/Accordions/TRE-1986-1original-page42.jpg)

So the evidence is overwhelming...

It wasn't until 1989 that Georges Roux, the founder of Saltarelle first came over, for the Fleadh in Kilkenny, and I met him then - I think I've still got that catalogue somewhere as well.
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: gettabettabox on April 26, 2014, 01:09:37 AM
squirm as you might....it's very clear from your own admissions...that you are fully implicated in this whole, sad process.
trying to make them sound like concertinas... ?...I think not sir.
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: triskel on April 26, 2014, 01:30:36 AM
squirm as you might....it's very clear from your own admissions...that you are fully implicated in this whole, sad process.
trying to make them sound like concertinas... ?...I think not sir.

 ;D My own feeling on that score has always been "if I want a concertina sound, I'll play my concertina - they do it much better!"

But I remember the first time I ever heard Sharon Shannon was in London, when she was visiting as the new teenage "whizz-kid" on the box, and she was playing a 2-coupler Paolo Soprani back in those days, with all but one set of reeds taped off - so maybe the buck passes back to herself again...  :D
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: triskel on April 26, 2014, 01:35:51 AM
Where can I get a sponge? Clearly that's also a thing I should have - is there a Guinness branded one yet?

Only a "roll-your-own" one:

(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/StephenChambers/LabelBeachTowel_MED.jpg)
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: Noodle on April 26, 2014, 04:14:12 AM
Gosh, that's a rather high horse he's riding! I respect the author's opinions for having them, but completely disagree with them and his tone.

There, that was pretty painless. Now, should he appear on this open minded, easy going forum, I wonder if he'd show me and other folk the same courtesy. Since that's probably unlikely to happen, is it worth worrying about his comments? I'm sure Sharon Shannon wouldn't lose sleep over the accusations, especially with the crowds and respect she draws with her TV and radio appearances... The sound of her boxes don't seem to be doing the "trad Irish" music scene any harm.
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: Rob2Hook on April 26, 2014, 12:40:27 PM
Considering how catholic Ms Shannon is in her choice of musical sources (ITM being the main one, but by no means the only one).  I respect the man's opinion, but wish he recognized that that is all it is - his own (stupid) opinion.  We used to have a "rule" that only Hohners were to be played for our Border side and it produced a great sound by which many recognized our side blindfold (we dance better that way).  Of late, convenience and more complex tunes have led us to use our favourite "posh" boxes.  We still enjoy it...

Rob.
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: AirTime on April 26, 2014, 04:25:13 PM
Quote
This is "when the rot set in" - the moment that Irish box players discovered there were other accordion makers in the world, apart from Hohner and Paolo Soprani:

Quote
But I remember the first time I ever heard Sharon Shannon was in London, when she was visiting as the new teenage "whizz-kid" on the box, and she was playing a 2-coupler Paolo Soprani back in those days, with all but one set of reeds taped off

It's a fascinating process - how "taste" changes over time. What prompted Sharon to tape off the reeds in the Soprani (surely the worst of all possible worlds in terms of efficiency)?
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: Prestidigitator on April 26, 2014, 05:32:12 PM
I have an older Saltarelle L'Elfique. Despite many years of owning other Saltarelles, Castagnaris, Hohners, and whatever besides, I like it well enough, and oft-times it produces the music I want from it.

Generally speaking, I think I'm more concerned about my playing than the label on the box I'm torturing at the time. For a long while, between about 1960-something and 1985-ish, I didn't know that there were "brands available"  other than Hohner.

Most good players can make at least "half a silk purse" of any old "sow's ear" box.
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: Gary on April 26, 2014, 05:34:25 PM
I started with a new Pokerwork Hohner  DG and found I made better progress after Theo tweaked it for me. Then I tried a dryer tuned Sandpiper box at Whitby and loved the sound. It was 5 years later that i took the plunge and bought a new Sandpiper DA .The contrast in sound is great in sessions and to me thats whats important as well as the playing action.  Having the choice of 2 boxes is great.I between I did own a BC Hohner but could not get on with it.
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: triskel on April 26, 2014, 06:09:09 PM
Quote
But I remember the first time I ever heard Sharon Shannon was in London, when she was visiting as the new teenage "whizz-kid" on the box, and she was playing a 2-coupler Paolo Soprani back in those days, with all but one set of reeds taped off
It's a fascinating process - how "taste" changes over time. What prompted Sharon to tape off the reeds in the Soprani (surely the worst of all possible worlds in terms of efficiency)?

I can only assume that it gave her the "concertina" sound she felt she wanted, but the Paolo was the box she had at the time. It was only after that, and until I sold her the Castagnaris, that I saw her playing Hohners.

But (irony of ironies!) when I sold her a Lilly - which would have seemed the perfect box for her - she found she was breaking its single reeds too easily and got rid of it. But she didn't have that problem with the Tommy, and the rest is history.
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: Gandy on April 26, 2014, 06:22:08 PM
Has the whole bass end been cut down, there hardly looks room for reed blocks?
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: triskel on December 18, 2014, 02:47:22 AM
But I remember the first time I ever heard Sharon Shannon was in London, when she was visiting as the new teenage "whizz-kid" on the box, and she was playing a 2-coupler Paolo Soprani back in those days, with all but one set of reeds taped off - so maybe the buck passes back to herself again...  :D

And tonight a film clip of Sharon playing that 2-coupler Paolo Soprani has turned up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7TVNo4dCW0&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7TVNo4dCW0&feature=youtu.be)
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: ACE on December 18, 2014, 06:58:17 AM
A soprani in the wrong hands can also do massive damage to traditional music. I expect the writer of the statement is such a player and was 'blasted' in his own mind at a session by a salterelle in the right hands.
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: baz parkes on December 18, 2014, 02:02:21 PM
I had a Berry for some 20 years , and liked it for band use at the time...it stood up to a fair amount of hammer and was very responsive.  As many of you know, I lost it in a burglary...but was in no hurry to replace it with another Saltarelle...choosing a vintage Hohner as it suits what I play and how I play it...rumpty tumpty southern plodder style.  And I was finding it a tad heavy for an evening's band work these days if I'm honest

I also have a 4 stop in D I think they called the Cajun (bought a year after the Berry)...it;s a joy to play and will ride roughshod over most sessions...but she's not getting the outings she deserves.

horses for courses I

Now, if we could all look at the Lemmie Brazil stuff and start a 1040 revival... :||:
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: KLR on December 18, 2014, 04:57:51 PM
This is pretty funny as on those Joe Cooley tapes you hear him playing a pretty dry tuned C#/D off and on, for the stepdancer for instance.  Maybe he used couplers to get that sound.

Didn't know Saltarelle were just a distribution firm.

Thanks for introducing these great Italian boxes to the British Isles, Triskel and Rees.
Title: Re: Thoughts on this YT comment: regarding Saltarelle's
Post by: triskel on December 18, 2014, 07:21:15 PM
... on those Joe Cooley tapes you hear him playing a pretty dry tuned C#/D off and on, for the stepdancer for instance.  Maybe he used couplers to get that sound.

I'm intrigued, I've never heard Joe play a dry-tuned accordion, in fact "Irish" accordions only came in broad "factory" tuning in his day, and he usually played D/D#. Where did you hear that - is there a link to it?
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