Melodeon.net Forums
Discussions => Tune of the Month => Topic started by: Clive Williams on January 25, 2015, 11:38:16 PM
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Hi folks - what tune shall we play this month?
We have:
En Avant Blonde - narrow loser last month, a traditional French waltz; a nice little tune that sits nicely in Em on a D/G. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aesoSRvoKXw
Return from Helsinki - a lovely composition written by Ian Stephenson, and here ably demonstrated by our own Roland Carson: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYsygSIhTrM
Bluebell Hornpipe - traditional English 3/2 hornpipe, here played by new superband Leveret (it's playable on a one row apparently) - http://youtu.be/Itgt_AacsCA?t=4m21s ; more details here: https://thesession.org/tunes/11582
Mrs Casey's - I don't think we've done this one yet, have we? Traditional morris tune from Kidlington, here played by Lester: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTXwJK3aK3M
Happy voting!
Cheers,
Clive
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Well this has reminded me that I still hadn't gotten around to learning the Bluebell Hornpipe, so I'll cast my vote for that! It'll also fit in nicely with my current crusade to learn as many 3/2 tunes as possible >:E
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I started learning Mrs Casey yesterday as part of my morris tune a week challenge. It's got potential for some cracking bass runs and is just an all round lovely little tune.
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I'd be happy to vote for 3 of this month's tunes but I reckon players of all levels could learn a lot from Return from Helsinki and it's a lovely tune. I've been working on it a bit lately after hearing Karl Taylor play it at Furness Tradition's Christmas event. (Doesn't look a very popular choice though :()
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I'd be happy to vote for 3 of this month's tunes but I reckon players of all levels could learn a lot from Return from Helsinki and it's a lovely tune. I've been working on it a bit lately after hearing Karl Taylor play it at Furness Tradition's Christmas event. (Doesn't look a very popular choice though :()
Just to back you up Mcgrooger!
Return from Helsinki is a very beautiful tune that inspires one to be musical and bring a lot of emotion into play. I have had a quick go at it on my ol' pokerwork and it really sings out, wonderful! I am still working on it and want to do a more finished, considered video when I have practiced it a lot more and feel able to do it justice. Here is my early attempt, just a kind of 'sketch' really, complete with mistakes and stumbles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Cc9aXPkO1A
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This is a nice version of Return to Helsinki: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN-y86UtYvM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN-y86UtYvM)
I presume that is Dave Gray playing.
Some notes/ABC which look pretty accurate to me: http://archive.folx.org/tune/reel/return-helsinki-2044 (http://archive.folx.org/tune/reel/return-helsinki-2044)
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I believe it's actually the Blewbell Hornpipe, and the Session has it wrong.
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As I voted for En Avant Blonde last month - and have actually learnt the tune - it has to get my vote this month too
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...but you've already learnt it, Jules. Time to learn something else now. >:E
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Return from Helsinki seems just right for my bandonika...it refuses to play anything even mildly quick....
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I believe it's actually the Blewbell Hornpipe, and the Session has it wrong.
Thanks Ollie, I was wondering if the two were one and the same but couldn't check earlier.
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... and the Session has it wrong.
Why am I not surprised...?
The Session website is notorious for its errors and misconceptions. Don't trust anything you find there unless you can verify and check its accuracy from another source. :o
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...but you've already learnt it, Jules. Time to learn something else now. >:E
But a tune can always be improved on and played with more confidence
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I hereby declare that there must be a fault with the voting equipment on this site. After voting for the least popular tune, every month, since I started participating; I now find that the tune I voted for this month is number one.
It's a fix, and I demand a recount ;)
John >:E
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Blew Bell Hornpipe played on fiddle by Sam Sweeney: http://youtu.be/Vp5vE6ARAnE (http://youtu.be/Vp5vE6ARAnE)
... and the Session has it wrong.
Why am I not surprised...?
The Session website is notorious for its errors and misconceptions. Don't trust anything you find there unless you can verify and check its accuracy from another source. :o
Tthesession.org is intended for Irish music, particularly dance tunes (see https://thesession.org/help (https://thesession.org/help)). It is actually really good for that purpose in my opinion.
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Return from Helsinki is a very beautiful tune that inspires one to be musical and bring a lot of emotion into play. I have had a quick go at it on my ol' pokerwork and it really sings out, wonderful! I am still working on it and want to do a more finished, considered video when I have practiced it a lot more and feel able to do it justice. Here is my early attempt, just a kind of 'sketch' really, complete with mistakes and stumbles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Cc9aXPkO1A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Cc9aXPkO1A)
Impressive off the cuff playing on a gorgeous sounding box! If the tune doesn't make the cut keep going with it and put it up in the videos section, I'm agog to see where you take it from here!
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I initially voted for the Bluebell hornpipe - but after seeing Craigus69 playing Mrs Casey's ... I am going for this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9YScpn0M8s
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The Session is devoted to Irish music, or rather what is actually called “celtic music”, but is a mine of interesting tunes from all over the world.
That what you find there is better be checked against other sources is an undisputed truth, but this reflects the attitude of the folk musicians toward the music they play. If they find what they think is a good tune, they just play it their own way, and couldn't care less about the sources. Then, that's exactly what the traditional players did!
To be honest, it seems to me that things here on melodeon.net aren't that different. If they were, with an original composition like Return from Helsinki – a nice tune that, as played by Roland Carson, reminds me of some of the compositions of Frederic Paris - I would have expected, beyond the links to some melodeon renditions (excellent as they are), a link to the author's recording. Those who have checked the link to the archive.folx.org page supplied by Bavarian Pete, by now probably know that it is available on Soundcloud. For those who haven't, here is the direct link:
https://soundcloud.com/ianstephenson/return-from-helsinki
For the record, for Return from Helsinki the tune page on The Session offers the same transcription of the melody that the archive.folx.org page, but adds a different chord progression that is worth checking, since it was posted by the author in first person (and does not make use of the F major chord, that's not available on a standerd D/G two row box). For the lazy ones here is the link:
https://thesession.org/tunes/11091
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I would have expected, beyond the links to some melodeon renditions (excellent as they are), a link to the author's recording.
Links are chosen to demonstrate how it plays on a (typically 2 row) melodeon, and ideally show the instrument being played - which is why Lester's and Ed Rennie's videos tend to get plundered in demo videos more than any other. They're not necessarily the most elaborate version out there, but they are clear and demonstrate the tune simply so that people can choose which they like... and then put their spin on it. In general, if there's no video available for a tune, it doesn't make the voting list (sorry); videos are used in preference to soundcloud links to allow people to see how it's played. If it wins, then it may get a bit more detail given on what it is, how to play it, and various versions people could listen to, but let's face it, most tunes don't win.
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GBbox: I agree with the sentiment you express.
Tunes can vary regionally and can also mutate as they get played more and more.
But..... my irritation is that if I've heard a tune at a local session, then go and learn it after sourcing it via a tune finder it's really annoying to realise everyone is playing one version....and you're playing another!
Un-learning the first version and re-learning a more common version ( if you can work it out or find it ) is really hard work as the original version in your head/fingers can be a devil to change.
I use tune finders a fair bit, but do try and make sure what I'm trying to learn is the version I want to learn, and that if it's transcribed from a recording that it has been done accurately.
Q
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But..... my irritation is that if I've heard a tune at a local session, then go and learn it after sourcing it via a tune finder it's really annoying to realise everyone is playing one version....and you're playing another!
Which is why I always try to record the tune at a session, then I can compare the output of the tune finder with it, mess with the ABC until they match, then learn the tune.
eg. Currently learning See me Dance the Polka for which the ABCs I can find don't match (in the B Music) the tune I know from Flowers and Frolics so I've worked with the recording and the ABC to make what I want.
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Good point, I should get into the habit of recording at the point of hearing a tune.
I've not tried to mess with abc's, but I print out the music and annotate that.
Q
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Whereas "going with the majority" makes for an easy life,
- It's always worth doing the research to find an "original" version, even if you don't end up playing it that way.
- If it's a recent composition, composer still alive, there's a stronger case for getting to know the original and trying to keep to the composer's intentions unless limitations of the instrument make that impossible.
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If it's a recent composition, composer still alive, there's a stronger case for getting to know the original and trying to keep to the composer's intentions unless limitations of the instrument make that impossible.
I agree, but, unfortunately, many people playing in sessions don't do this, probably because they were unaware of the original version when they first learnt the tune and, if they discovered the composer's version subsequently, they couldn't be bothered to change the version they had learnt.
Ashokan Farewell is a good example of this. When it was selected as one of our earliest tunes of the month, I contacted Jay Ungar, who composed it, to ask his permission for us to use it. He was kind enough to send me the sheet music and a link to a recording of him playing it, which I posted here. I was surprised to discover that the way it is played in every session I attend is different in the final two bars from the way Jay Ungar wrote it. He drops down to a low A in the penultimate bar and finishes on the D at the bottom of the octave, except for the final time through the tune, when he climbs up to the high D. It is this climb up to the high D which most people seem to play every time through the tune rather than just the final time.
Another example is Ganivelle, where many people play the seventh bar of the A music as though it is identical to the third bar, which is not how Frédéric Paris wrote it.
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If the tune author is known and alive, and they win, I always make every effort to contact them and get permission to use it; nobody's refused permission yet, but it's possible, and if so we'd simply drop down to the 2nd placed tune on the list. I don't contact authors unless the tune wins, or looks like it's highly likely to however. Of course, assuming they give permission, they can provide notes / accurate music for it if they wish it to be played a certain way; most authors, including those that provide dots, simply have a 'I'm happy that you like my tune, play it as you wish' attitude which is rather nice.
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I think Clive has very carefully got this right. The issues are a whole mix not just of copyright, but also of respect for the original writer's intentions. Let's be honest, when we learn to play a tune it's because we like it and want to achieve some sort of performance with it as the original writer did - and of course no tunes are just 'traditional' - somebody somewhere once wrote them. I agree that if the writer is happy that a tune be changed, that really is a generous thing, as is freely providing their original music score, or recording or whatever. It is certainly true, and a good thing, that variations on an original tune come about. But I do also feel that just changing a tune in a session because it's easier to play it that way, or because one's box cannot play the original, can also reasonably be considered a little disrespectful to the author, particularly so if the author is still alive and kicking. If (highly unlikely though it be!) I were to ever write a tune that became popular, and then everyone changed the best bits, I think I might feel slightly miffed that all that would survive of my tune and reputation would be a dumbed-down version I didn't write!
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I would have expected, beyond the links to some melodeon renditions (excellent as they are), a link to the author's recording.
Links are chosen to demonstrate how it plays on a (typically 2 row) melodeon, and ideally show the instrument being played - which is why Lester's and Ed Rennie's videos tend to get plundered in demo videos more than any other. They're not necessarily the most elaborate version out there, but they are clear and demonstrate the tune simply so that people can choose which they like... and then put their spin on it. In general, if there's no video available for a tune, it doesn't make the voting list (sorry); videos are used in preference to soundcloud links to allow people to see how it's played. If it wins, then it may get a bit more detail given on what it is, how to play it, and various versions people could listen to, but let's face it, most tunes don't win.
Sorry Clive, but you seem to have totally missed my point. I wasn't criticizing the choice to offer video links, although what you say about it seems contradictory to me.
There are so many individual variants in the way you can play a tune, and often so many different variants of the same melody, that if the idea is to make people choose the one they like, looking to one single performance in video format, rather than simply listening to it, I don't think makes much difference.
Also, most of the traditional stuff that's played nowadays has been probably learned from audio sources and/or from the paper – we might not been aware of it, but whatever the length of the chain of people in flesh and blood who has handed it to us, it's likely those two were the sources.
Yet, I said something else. What I actually stated is that for an original composition (BEYOND the melodeon videos) a link to let us hear how it is played by the author and/or to a faithful transcription would be interesting, and a sign of respect toward him.
Let me put it this way: I usually feel free to play my own variants of other people's compositions, but when/if I do I wish to start with the original, not with someone else' variant!
A final consideration, since I was talking about Return from Helsinki. I have already said I like the rendition of Roland Carson. His dronish approach to the use of basses and chords is effective, and if I had to learn the tune I could consider playing it that way once, or eventually playing the first strain that way as an intro. Then, as nothing in the way the author has recorded the tune suggests such an accompaniment, I'd probably turn to the standard vamping that's the rule on the melodeon. In other words, that's an inspiring interpretation of the tune, but a failry personal one rather than a representative one as far as the box is concerned.
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Apologies for the thread drift in this post:
Following my earlier mention of Ashokan Farewell, I received a PM pointing out that the sheet music I posted in 2010 is no longer there for some reason, so here it is again for anyone who may be interested in the version of the tune Jay Ungar sent to me. It is the last line that Jay wrote differently from the way most people play it in sessions in England.
Of course, the melodeon fingering above the staves was added by me, as was the droned bass line, which uses bass chords throughout (i.e. no fundamentals.)
Here is a link to an insprinig YouTube video of Jay playing Ashokan Farewell with the Molly Mason Family Band (Molly is his wife.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kZASM8OX7s
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I think Clive has very carefully got this right.
(I feel I should clarify that in saying this, I was just referring to what you said Clive about approaching authors for permission if the tune is going to win, I was not intending to comment on other matters.)
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If I might drag this back to the poll.....
The link for Blew Bell Hornpipe gives a discussion ( argument! ) between Session.org members about which of the several lots of abc's in the link is the correct/good/ accurate version.
If you play it, which version of notation do you or Leveret use?
Q
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If I might drag this back to the poll.....
The link for Blew Bell Hornpipe gives a discussion ( argument! ) between Session.org members about which of the several lots of abc's in the link is the correct/good/ accurate version.
If you play it, which version of notation do you or Leveret use?
Q
This one - http://shootingroots.org/wiki/index.php?title=Bluebell_Hornpipe
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Thanks Ollie, much appreciated.
Q
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I wonder where Sam Sweeney's version came from. The three part version, apparently in E flat, seems to me more more likely to be Walsh's original, but has some strange jumps that look more like transcription or ABC coding errors. I'd love to see the Walsh book (or a photocopy of it) and get that version right. I have a playable version of it (transposed to D) with just a couple of compromises.
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I wonder where Sam Sweeney's version came from. The three part version, apparently in E flat, seems to me more more likely to be Walsh's original, but has some strange jumps that look more like transcription or ABC coding errors. I'd love to see the Walsh book (or a photocopy of it) and get that version right. I have a playable version of it (transposed to D) with just a couple of compromises.
I know Sam deliberately doesn't play the C part, so may well have edited certain other bits of the tune too.
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Well this is how I read and play the Bluebell and I'm not sure it sounds much like the tune Messrs Cutting et al are playing..
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gF0o4_iu7KM
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I'd love to see the Walsh book (or a photocopy of it) and get that version right.
Which Walsh I wonder? I have a transcription of Walsh 6 and I'm currently transcribing the two volumes of Walsh 4 from scans of the original. I only have forty or so of the 400+ tunes still to go and I haven't come across the Blew Bell Hornpipe yet . . .
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I've found this three part tune, not sure it's the missing link though!
X:1599
T:Blew Bell Hornpipe
B:Walsh
M:3/2
L:1/8
N:
K:Cm
E4 GABD E4| cBAG FGAG D2 F2|BAGF EFED C2 F2| AGFE B,EDF E4:|
|:e4 gbge cecA| F4 fgfe dcde| D2 E2 c3 B AGFE|AGFE B,EDF E4:|
EFGA B2 E2 D2 E2| FGA=B c2 F2 =E2 F2| g3 f edcB AGFE| AGFE B,EDA E4:|
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I've found this three part tune, not sure it's the missing link though!
That's the version as found in ABC transcriptions in various places.
Quinton has contacted me today, and he's got a new copy of one of Pete Stewart's books of 3/2 hornpipes, and the tune's there, identical except for bar 2, which is
cBAG FGAE D2 F2
with G changed to E flat.
The rest of the tune seems to be correct, and there is a sort of logic to the odd leaps, which I have grown to love, so I'll be playing it like that, except for a modification of my own to accommodate an accidental which I only have in the wrong octave (and also I'm doing it all in D)
Thanks to all those who have taken an interest.
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I thought we were looking at Walsh! I have Pete Stewart's book and the ABCs for them but I keep them in a separate folder to VMP files, no wonder I couldn't find the tune!
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I thought we were looking at Walsh! I have Pete Stewart's book and the ABCs for them but I keep them in a separate folder to VMP files, no wonder I couldn't find the tune!
As I understand it, the book in question is Pete Stewart's Three Extraordinary Collections (http://www.mustrad.org.uk/reviews/3hpe_col.htm)
where one of the said collections is "John Walsh's Third Book of the Most Celebrated Jiggs, Lancashire Hornpipes, 1730"
So it is Stewart, and it is Walsh!
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Yes Anahata, to confirm, that's the source I have.
Q
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This is the tune as transcribed by Pete Stewart himself which bears out Anahata's version of the tune. Not sure about the accuracy of the stated key signature in the ABC though, looks like Eb to me!
X:21
T:Blew Bell
O:England;London
M:3/2
L:1/8
Q:1/2=100
S:J.Walsh,Third Book of the most celebrated jiggs,etc 1731
Z:Pete Stewart, 2004
K:CMin
E4GABDE4|cBAG FGAED2F2|BAGF EFEDC2F2|AGFE B,EDFE4||
e4gbge cecA|F4fgfe dcde|D2E2c3B AGFE|AGFE B,EDFE4||
EFGAB2E2D2E2|FGA=B c2F2=E2F2|g3f edcB AGFE|AGFE B,EDFE4|]
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Not sure about the accuracy of the stated key signature in the ABC though, looks like Eb to me!
Yes, that's a bit of a howler. It produces the correct three-flats key signature, but no part of the tune sounds in the least like C minor.
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The rest of the tune seems to be correct, and there is a sort of logic to the odd leaps, which I have grown to love, so I'll be playing it like that, except for a modification of my own to accommodate an accidental which I only have in the wrong octave (and also I'm doing it all in D)
And here it is, for anyone who's still interested: Blew Bell Hornpipe (http://youtu.be/bAPD1xbyLMM)
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lovely! .... Thanks for the recording.
Defnitely put it on the 'to learn' list!
cheers
Q