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Discussions => Instrument Design, Construction and Repair => Topic started by: boxcall on March 10, 2015, 04:35:45 PM

Title: Refurbishing a Hohner 1040
Post by: boxcall on March 10, 2015, 04:35:45 PM
I have a Hohner presswood 1040 that I want to repair. when replacing valves is it best to tune the reeds before putting them back in box. I was thinking that I would try to do the valve replacement and re-wax reeds then send to the button box for tuning, as I don't feel like I could do the tuning. Is this an ok way to do it? or would it be better to just let them do it all.
and I think the most would recommend plastic valves?

Title: Re: replacing valves and tuning
Post by: Lester on March 10, 2015, 04:45:34 PM
The final tuning will have to be done with the reeds fitted to the box so best to re-valve, re-wax then send off to BB.

Title: Re: replacing valves and tuning
Post by: boxcall on March 10, 2015, 06:18:03 PM
Thanks Lester!!
A couple more questions, one reed came loose and fell out of position all the other reeds have H stamp facing out, so I'm assuming that how I should put it back making sure I keep the rest in order.
And I want to replace pallet facing whats the right material, use original thickness or thicker and will I have to adjust button height?  Also should pallets come off mechanism, I already took it out of the box both ends as they are a little rusty. thought I'd clean everything as I go. and I need to either remove the black paint on it to bring back presswood finish or repaint.
I remember you had pictures somewhere showing a lot of this, which I can't find now.
More questions to follow I'm sure (:)
Title: Re: replacing valves and tuning
Post by: Lester on March 10, 2015, 06:38:37 PM
Thanks Lester!!
A couple more questions, one reed came loose and fell out of position all the other reeds have H stamp facing out, so I'm assuming that how I should put it back making sure I keep the rest in order.
Yes the order is important and they should all have the H on the visible side

Quote
And I want to replace pallet facing whats the right material, use original thickness or thicker and will I have to adjust button height?
If you use the original thickness (just leather) the button height should remain OK, if you use thicker and thus quieter felt and leather the buton height will need to be reset. This is achieved by judicious bending of the mechanism.

The pallets will come off by gently working them back and forth. I would clean as much rust off as possible before refitting the mechs.
Title: Re: replacing valves and tuning
Post by: boxcall on March 10, 2015, 06:51:30 PM
Thanks again!
That sounds like it could be difficult where to bend midspan? and what do you bend it with.
Would it be possible to make the kerf in the pallet slightly deeper? maybe a dumb Idea.

I guess scape off the little button that holds pallet to lever then wiggle free?
and after cleaning metal is there any need to lightly coat with oil. runs for cover ;D
Title: Re: replacing valves and tuning
Post by: Lester on March 10, 2015, 06:54:12 PM
Thanks again!
That sounds like it could be difficult where to bend midspan? and what do you bend it with.
Would it be possible to make the kerf in the pallet slightly deeper? maybe a dumb Idea.

I guess scape off the little button that holds pallet to lever then wiggle free?
and after cleaning metal is there any need to lightly coat with oil. runs for cover ;D

NO OIL ANYWHERE it just collects dust and gums everything up!
Title: Re: replacing valves and tuning
Post by: GPS on March 10, 2015, 07:14:15 PM
I support everything Lester has said; I use Charlie Marshall's felt-backed Persian leather for re-facing, and though it does make the buttons sit a little lower I've personally never felt (pun unintentional!) the need to adjust the button height afterwards. The original action on pretty well all the boxes I've rebuilt has already been a tad on the high side for my liking, and I've not had a problem with a pallet not opening fully after re-facing. A matter of personal choice; if you do feel the need to adjust the button height it is, as Lester says, a relatively straightforward matter of judicious and very gentle bending of the levers - not as frightening as it sounds once you've done it a time or two!

Graham
Title: Re: replacing valves and tuning
Post by: boxcall on March 10, 2015, 09:17:46 PM
Ok NO oil, I thought so. well first job is done I got it all broke down, reeds out and organized they are in pretty good shape.
should they get clean beyond just scraping away wax and glue?  Now I need to work on pallets and rust which isn't much.
I guess if I'm doing all this I should try take out the clack with thicker stuff and add bushings to bass side.
then decide if I want to take the black paint off (I'm not sure how well that will work with out taking original press-wood finish off, and corners are rusted) or keep it black and repaint sort of a mini pokerwork of death. 8)
thanks for your input!!
Title: Re: replacing valves and tuning
Post by: diatonix on March 10, 2015, 11:47:00 PM
 I consider re-valving and waxing (should it be required), which is not quite as straight forward as some want to believe, an important first step of the tuning process. Unless I've had the chance to do this myself (or if it's not done by a professional)  I'd not take on the job of doing the actual fine-tuning.
Title: Re: replacing valves and tuning
Post by: TomB-R on March 11, 2015, 12:00:37 AM
If there's any rust to deal with I'd have thought the reeds are likely to need tuning before they go back on the blocks.  After that comes the "fine tuning."
Title: Re: replacing valves and tuning
Post by: boxcall on March 11, 2015, 01:14:23 AM
 Tom,
Not really any rust on reeds, just the treble mech. needs a little cleaning.

I consider re-valving and waxing (should it be required), which is not quite as straight forward as some want to believe, an important first step of the tuning process. Unless I've had the chance to do this myself (or if it's not done by a professional)  I'd not take on the job of doing the actual fine-tuning.
I plan on re-valving and waxing. And I'm a professional just not a melodeon repairman (:) but do have skills as I'm a contractor (home builder/ finish carpenter etc.) so I know how to measure and glue things. I guess the wax part would be a new thing. To bad wax doesn't come in a caulking gun.
Title: Re: replacing valves and tuning
Post by: Steve_freereeder on March 11, 2015, 10:04:47 AM
If there's any rust to deal with I'd have thought the reeds are likely to need tuning before they go back on the blocks.
Not really. Unless the reeds are really badly rusted (in which case they may not be viable anyway) cleaning the rust off doesn't make too much difference to the pitch. Rusty reeds tend to be flat as the iron oxide is heavier than the unoxidised steel, so cleaning off the rust tends to sharpen the pitch again to somewhere near where it was originally, or perhaps a bit sharper. Once the rust is cleaned off, my recommendation would be to re-valve and re-wax back on to the blocks.
Title: Re: replacing valves and tuning
Post by: Rees on March 11, 2015, 12:47:54 PM
What Steve said.
Title: Re: replacing valves and tuning
Post by: boxcall on March 11, 2015, 01:08:23 PM
So whats the recomened material for cleaning? Very lightly rusted and only in a few spots on just a couple reeds. And if it's on the under side of reed whats the best way to get at it. would you just lift reed and pass it over a very fine emory cloth or board?
Title: Re: replacing valves and tuning
Post by: TomB-R on March 11, 2015, 01:11:19 PM
Fair enough - in my most recent experience of rusty reeds a lot of them were significantly flat with rust near the base. Possibly due to the glue used for the leather valves?
Title: Re: replacing valves and tuning
Post by: brazilian.BOX on March 11, 2015, 01:13:42 PM
Tune alone and do all the maintenance. I dream about it. These services here in my country are very expensive.
Dream also in do the changing in the tunes... change the note of a reed in F and pass it to F# for example. Cause specially THIS service about do this chantings in the tune, passing a melodeon C-F to A-D for example is incredibly expensive here.  :-X
Title: Re: replacing valves and tuning
Post by: GPS on March 11, 2015, 02:16:12 PM
So whats the recomened material for cleaning? Very lightly rusted and only in a few spots on just a couple reeds. And if it's on the under side of reed whats the best way to get at it. would you just lift reed and pass it over a very fine emory cloth or board?

I find a glassfibre brush very useful on light rust. This kind of jobbie: http://www.agarscientific.com/glass-fibre-brushes.html (http://www.agarscientific.com/glass-fibre-brushes.html)

Graham
Title: Re: replacing valves and tuning
Post by: Nick Collis Bird on March 11, 2015, 03:18:50 PM
Interesting stuff. My Organette won't suffer though, I've had the reeds remade in stainless steel. :o
Title: Re: replacing valves and tuning
Post by: boxcall on March 11, 2015, 08:42:37 PM
Thanks Graham!  I'll see if I can find some near by.
I was wondering about reed valves, on GCM web site there are assorted sets some with holes for rivets others with out. so whats best? assorted sets seem good but not sure. and if I buy some other packs I'm going to have a lot of extras I think, which isn't bad I just would like to get the right ones.
Title: Re: replacing valves and tuning
Post by: Theo on March 11, 2015, 10:03:33 PM
Another handy reed cleaning tool is a polishing block.  These are made for cleaning circuit boards prior to soldering.  Consists of a rubbery material filled with a mild abrasive.  The fibreglass brush works well, but it does put a lot of glass fibre fragments into the air so you need a face mask.
Title: Re: replacing valves and tuning
Post by: Lester on March 11, 2015, 10:43:45 PM
Another handy reed cleaning tool is a polishing block.  These are made for cleaning circuit boards prior to soldering.  Consists of a rubbery material filled with a mild abrasive.  The fibreglass brush works well, but it does put a lot of glass fibre fragments into the air so you need a face mask.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/abrasive-polishing-block-hx04e (http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/abrasive-polishing-block-hx04e)
Title: Re: replacing valves and tuning
Post by: boxcall on March 11, 2015, 10:44:30 PM
Ok thanks Theo!
Does this work on under side of reed the part facing channel in reed block.
Maybe I would need to push reed though channel to access, although I don't think I could get it the full lenght of reed with this method. or would I cut a piece to fit within the channel?
Graham's fibre pen seems like it could get right in there.  There's only a couple reeds to address that look rusty.
Thanks,
Michael
Title: Re: replacing valves and tuning
Post by: boxcall on March 11, 2015, 11:04:30 PM
I could get these on my side of the alantic
http://www.rockler.com/sandflex-flexible-abrasive-blocks
What would you recomend for grit fine, med,?
I could exactly use one of these any way to clean rusty tools as one of my tool boxes on truck has been leaking >:( or get some of that stuff you just dip the tools in.
Title: Re: replacing valves and tuning
Post by: syale on March 12, 2015, 12:06:46 AM
If you have the reeds off the reed blocks Evaporust works (you can buy at Harbor Freight). I know as I have just done it. I also used the fiber glass pen for the really light stuff.  I don't think the sanding block will get in there, especially the corners and also think it might be too abrasive. I have the valves from CGM and they have no holes so I made my own with a rotary leather punch tool. Have to glue them on and wax next. The waxing will be interesting as I have never attempted that! I have a tool that might help me with the waxing but I will will share after I achieve success  ;)

Stephen
Title: Re: replacing valves and tuning
Post by: boxcall on March 12, 2015, 12:48:43 AM
Hi Stephen.
Yeah, I thought about this stuff but wasn't sure if it was ok to use thinking that it leaves some kind of residue or coating.
Which could also effect the glue for valves unless you abrade first?  I'm in the process of ordering some stuff from CGM so I have some time to work on the rust.  Let me know how the waxing goes.
How's the weltmeister you bought?
Michael
Title: Re: replacing valves and tuning
Post by: syale on March 12, 2015, 01:01:32 AM
I have not found there is a residue. I rinsed with water and set to dry in a dessicator I have for 4 hours to ensure no moisture was left behind. The Weltmeister fell through as I was away at the time and they had someone with the cash ready. I did buy a DG Hohner 2915 to keep me rolling along.
Title: Re: replacing valves and tuning
Post by: blafleur on March 12, 2015, 02:08:32 AM
I also use Evaporust, but for me it did leave a residue, so I just give it a rinse in mineral spirits, it comes off easily before it dries.  It also removes bluing, which bothers some, not me.
Title: Re: replacing valves and tuning
Post by: Theo on March 12, 2015, 08:25:27 AM
Ok thanks Theo!
Does this work on under side of reed the part facing channel in reed block.


No, for that I use a small screwdriver as a scraper.
Title: Re: replacing valves and tuning
Post by: Steve_freereeder on March 12, 2015, 08:46:59 AM
I have the valves from CGM and they have no holes so I made my own with a rotary leather punch tool.
I have never bothered with making holes in the valves to fit over the rivet. I think it might be an older Hohner thing. Most other manufacturers seem to just butt the valves up to the rivet head, and fix with glue on the endmost 5 - 10 mm or so, depending on the overall length of the valve, so that's what I do. If it's good enough for Castagnari, it's good enough for me!
Title: Re: replacing valves and tuning
Post by: GPS on March 12, 2015, 09:00:10 AM
I have the valves from CGM and they have no holes so I made my own with a rotary leather punch tool.
I have never bothered with making holes in the valves to fit over the rivet. I think it might be an older Hohner thing. Most other manufacturers seem to just butt the valves up to the rivet head, and fix with glue on the endmost 5 - 10 mm or so, depending on the overall length of the valve, so that's what I do. If it's good enough for Castagnari, it's good enough for me!

Me too, Steve - except for the Castagnari bit, 'cos I've never seen the inside of one!
Title: Re: replacing valves and tuning
Post by: Steve_freereeder on March 12, 2015, 10:03:12 AM
Me too, Steve - except for the Castagnari bit, 'cos I've never seen the inside of one!
You should try to take a look at some point. The workmanship is superb.
Title: Re: replacing valves and tuning
Post by: GPS on March 12, 2015, 11:43:19 AM
Me too, Steve - except for the Castagnari bit, 'cos I've never seen the inside of one!
You should try to take a look at some point. The workmanship is superb.

I'd have to find somebody who's got one and doesn't mind me taking it to bits!  No chance of that on this island........

Graham
Title: Re: replacing valves and tuning
Post by: boxcall on March 12, 2015, 08:27:02 PM
Thanks to all for suggestions and input!!
New questions, so when I was taking things apart on treble mech. there where only three screws one on each end and one in the middle but I noticed there are two extra holes. And on bass side there was only two screws and two extra holes should each hole have a screw? seems to me they should.
air button mech. was fine.

Next: To bush or not to bush (and I don't mean G W Bush we know that was a mistake) the bass side.
and where would I find them as I don't see them on GCM site.
Title: Re: replacing valves and tuning
Post by: Theo on March 12, 2015, 10:22:54 PM
Yes it would be sensible to replace the missing screws.  A good solid base will give the action a positive feel.

You can't buy ready made bushes for bass buttons.  I copy the concertina method of lining the holes with carefully cut strips of woven felt.  The material is sold by piano repair suppliers and in England is called bushing cloth. You can also get it from concertina spares.com.  Ordinary wool felt is not durable enough.
Title: Re: replacing valves and tuning
Post by: boxcall on March 13, 2015, 01:54:17 AM
Thanks Theo
I thought the screws should be there, I'm ordering some stuff from CGM I'll see if he has some.
On the bushing does one need to widen the hole?
I should probaly rename this thread to 1040 repair/ rebuild or trying to bring Papa's meldeon back to life.
Title: Re: replacing valves and tuning
Post by: Theo on March 13, 2015, 08:44:53 AM
Yes you need a reamer to widen the hole.  It can be done with a round file but is very tedious that way.
Title: Re: replacing valves and tuning
Post by: boxcall on March 14, 2015, 01:45:05 AM
Ok thanks Theo and all,
I just ordered some parts so I'll keep you posted on progress.
I"m excited to get this going and to have a melodeon in the key of C when done.
Title: Re: Refurbishing a Hohner 1040
Post by: boxcall on March 23, 2015, 07:26:31 PM
I changed the subject since I'll be asking rebuild questions and showing progress now.
I just received my parts so I'm getting to it (:)

Question about cracks in fondo here's one in treble side that was taped over years ago, when it was being repaired maybe. It's directly under wood that makes reed chamber, and on inside where the reeds go only 3/4" is exposed. so how does one handle this? glue or something similar to what was done already / tape. As you can see in photo it's not under the pallets.

give me a couple minutes and I'll post pics.
Title: Re: Refurbishing a Hohner 1040
Post by: boxcall on March 23, 2015, 07:32:47 PM
another treble side
Title: Re: Refurbishing a Hohner 1040
Post by: boxcall on March 23, 2015, 07:34:40 PM
bass side
Title: Re: Refurbishing a Hohner 1040
Post by: boxcall on March 23, 2015, 07:39:28 PM
bass side inside
Title: Re: Refurbishing a Hohner 1040
Post by: boxcall on March 23, 2015, 07:43:13 PM
Last one showing some new parts plus I stripped the black paint, still a little bit there so I will seal with poly and if I don't like the results I'll try something else.
Title: Re: Refurbishing a Hohner 1040
Post by: boxcall on March 23, 2015, 07:46:35 PM
sorry about all the pics.
last one really, this shows what the box looked like.
Title: Re: Refurbishing a Hohner 1040
Post by: Theo on March 23, 2015, 07:57:57 PM
Superglue/cyanoacrylate is good for filling cracks.  The thin grades capillary right into the finest cracks.  Wider cracks can be packed with sodium bicarbonate and then add superglue which reacts immediately to form a hard composite.  If cracks will be visible then fill first with wood dust of a matching colour before adding the superglue.
Title: Re: Refurbishing a Hohner 1040
Post by: boxcall on March 23, 2015, 09:23:03 PM
Thanks Theo !
I thought about fine wood dust mix with glue but wasn't thinking of superglue, which I will try.
I did not think about baking soda thats interesting.

So when gluing felt leather on to pallets whats the right glue?
can I use the same stuff that I use for the valves. I got a tube of the stuff CGM sells for valves.

And I think I saw on Lesters pics once glue pallets to felt then trim, or could you precut then glue?
And do you over size slightly.

One more question for now what is the material used for padding (limiting)buttons?
Title: Re: Refurbishing a Hohner 1040
Post by: Theo on March 23, 2015, 10:12:06 PM
Whatever glue is handy for pallet facing as long as it is not able to soak into the felt - pva, contact cement, etc.  glue pallets onto felt/leather first, then cut up with a sharp blade. Don't try to precut.
Title: Re: Refurbishing a Hohner 1040
Post by: boxcall on March 24, 2015, 07:03:52 PM
When gluing pallets is any weight need to hold pallets to felt or just press in place?
And is it ok to put pallets close together when gluing so one cut down the middle to separate?
Title: Re: Refurbishing a Hohner 1040
Post by: Lester on March 24, 2015, 07:09:47 PM
When gluing pallets is any weight need to hold pallets to felt or just press in place?
And is it ok to put pallets close together when gluing so one cut down the middle to separate?

I don't weight the pallets down but I do butt them together to simplify cutting as you describe.
Title: Re: Refurbishing a Hohner 1040
Post by: boxcall on March 24, 2015, 07:21:42 PM
Great!
thanks Lester

I ask this earlier
One more question for now what is the material used for padding (limiting)buttons?

I may just poly case but was half thinking maybe staining with a light green or similar to hide any remaining black residue.
I like to give it some color but wasn't sure if I could stain and still get the presswood to show though any thoughts?
Title: Re: Refurbishing a Hohner 1040
Post by: Steve_freereeder on March 24, 2015, 07:31:57 PM
When gluing pallets is any weight need to hold pallets to felt or just press in place?
And is it ok to put pallets close together when gluing so one cut down the middle to separate?
I do weight the pallets down on the felt after gluing, but not by much. I use a single thin, even, coat of contact adhesive on the wooden face of the pallet, nothing on the felt, then just press into place. Once all the pallets are glued on to the felt, I cover them all with a sheet of plywood and place a couple of hefty books on top for a couple of hours. That gives sufficient time for the glue to set enough to separate the individual pallets with a sharp knife blade without risking disturbing the felt.

Yes - lay your pallets on the felt with just enough gap to be able to slip the knife blade between, and then one cut down the middle to separate them. 
Title: Re: Refurbishing a Hohner 1040
Post by: boxcall on March 24, 2015, 08:09:20 PM
Thanks Steve!
Yes I just got done gluing them with PVA light coat then put a little weight not much.
I don't know if others do this but when gluing wood together I put a little glue on then wait a few minutes, while some of the glue gets soaked into the wood then spread a little more keeping a thin coat. Carpentry talk it's "sizing" the wood.

so any one ever stained one of these?
Title: Re: Refurbishing a Hohner 1040
Post by: boxcall on March 27, 2015, 02:21:01 AM
So I got the pallets felted and cut out, went ahead and stained case a light lime green and seal it with poly (you can still see the decoration on the case which is what I wanted). I should be able to pick it out in a line up :D. I cleaned up light rust on metal bits.  put new cloth on bass side. so now I just need to put things back together.

So do most repair pallets to levers using hot glue or Pva with little disks? I had CGM send me disks as thats how it was done originally, any pros and cons?

Also when putting valves on reeds (I Had CGM send me a set for the 1040) whats the proper lenght?
when I just lay them lose on the reed plate butting it up to rivet it sticks pass the tip of reed by a good 1/8" maybe a little more.

When cutting if needed do you cut base or tip, seems like the base has about 5/16" where the layers are attached maybe more I just eyeballed the measurements. If you cut the base then could one just make a little Vcut so it slides past rivet to get better glue contact? I might be over thinking it.
 
In a reed waxing video CGM made, he used a paint brush to wax a simple way to do it I guess.  anyone done this?
I also noticed He only put valve on one side then waxed ( to make cleaning extra wax off with out getting it on valve I guess)
is this a good idea no matter which method?

advise as always greatly appreciated,
Michael


 
Title: Re: Refurbishing a Hohner 1040
Post by: GPS on March 27, 2015, 04:19:59 AM
If you need to trim a valve remove the excess from the tip. I use Charlie's paintbrush method and it works well for me; others may have different experiences. Personally I fit valves to both sides before waxing in, but on the face of it I don't see any reason you shouldn't leave the outside valves until the plates are in place.

Graham
Title: Re: Refurbishing a Hohner 1040
Post by: Lester on March 27, 2015, 07:09:39 AM
Also when putting valves on reeds (I Had CGM send me a set for the 1040) whats the proper lenght?
when I just lay them lose on the reed plate butting it up to rivet it sticks pass the tip of reed by a good 1/8" maybe a little more.
Care needs to be taken that the valve does not foul on the wood work of the reed block, I trim the valve much closer than 1/8th inch.

Quote
When cutting if needed do you cut base or tip, seems like the base has about 5/16" where the layers are attached maybe more I just eyeballed the measurements. If you cut the base then could one just make a little Vcut so it slides past rivet to get better glue contact? I might be over thinking it.
I have never considered cutting the base end of the valve. I attach the valves then trim them to size as I find it easier to get them the correct length.

Quote

In a reed waxing video CGM made, he used a paint brush to wax a simple way to do it I guess.  anyone done this?
I also noticed He only put valve on one side then waxed ( to make cleaning extra wax off with out getting it on valve I guess)
is this a good idea no matter which method?
I use a soldering iron, run through a light dimmer to allow me to control the temperature, to do my waxing. Using this method I have no/very little need to clean up afterwards so always fit all the valves first. You need to use great care as any dripped wax can cause greater problems than messed up valves if it is dripped across reed tongues.
[/quote]
Title: Re: Refurbishing a Hohner 1040
Post by: Theo on March 27, 2015, 08:19:47 AM

In a reed waxing video CGM made, he used a paint brush to wax a simple way to do it I guess.  anyone done this?
I also noticed He only put valve on one side then waxed ( to make cleaning extra wax off with out getting it on valve I guess)
is this a good idea no matter which method?

I think the reason for leaving the top valve off till after waxing is because he doesn't want to get wax on a valve and have to replace it.  But if you drip wax on an uncovered reed you will have more work to do than just replacing a valve!

Safety warning:   CGM shows wax being melted over a gas burner.  Serious fire risk, wax should be melted in a double container with the wax itself sitting in a water bath.   That or an electric wax bath with a thermostat.
Title: Re: Refurbishing a Hohner 1040
Post by: GPS on March 27, 2015, 08:39:27 AM

Safety warning:   CGM shows wax being melted over a gas burner.  Serious fire risk, wax should be melted in a double container with the wax itself sitting in a water bath.   That or an electric wax bath with a thermostat.

Absolutely correct. I melt my wax in a briki (a small Greek coffee pot) on a small (9cm diameter) portable electric hotplate with a temperature control.  I shudder to think of the implications of using an open-flame burner in my wooden workshop full of timber, glues, varnishes and wood-dust.......In fact I usually do my waxing either outside if it's warm and dry, or at the kitchen table if not, rather than in the workshop.

Graham



Graham
Title: Re: Refurbishing a Hohner 1040
Post by: boxcall on March 27, 2015, 01:07:19 PM
Thanks for tips and saftey warning.

So cut valve tip then, just covering hole a little or even to tip of reed?



Title: Re: Refurbishing a Hohner 1040
Post by: Theo on March 27, 2015, 01:22:37 PM
Best advice I can give is twofold
1 observe the way it was done originally and use that as a guide(applies to more than just valve trimming)
2 the only really critical thing about valves is to ensure that the underneath one is clear if the reed chamber walls.
3 don't be frightened of making mistakes, they are the best way of learning.

Oh I see that's three!
Title: Re: Refurbishing a Hohner 1040
Post by: Barry Swanson on March 30, 2015, 04:57:08 AM
...... I cleaned up light rust on metal bits. 

...rust has a habit of returning...what methods of treatment do folk use to stop it coming back in 6 months time?
Title: Re: Refurbishing a Hohner 1040
Post by: boxcall on March 30, 2015, 12:01:08 PM
...... I cleaned up light rust on metal bits. 

...rust has a habit of returning...what methods of treatment do folk use to stop it coming back in 6 months time?

Hi Barry,
I didn't treat with anything, it took 60+ yrs for the light rust to form. So I guess it's not something I'm going to have to deal with. (unless I find the fountain of youth)
Folks here suggest no oils on metal parts.
Title: Re: Refurbishing a Hohner 1040
Post by: Theo on March 30, 2015, 12:30:15 PM
A light buff with wax polish.
Title: Re: Refurbishing a Hohner 1040
Post by: boxcall on March 30, 2015, 12:49:48 PM
Theo,
Do you mean furniture polish or similar? 

I found the places where rust was worse was the metal bends ,pivot , spring area.
it would be hard to rub wax in there, unless I pulled the springs and pivot pin which seemed like alot of work.
Title: Re: Refurbishing a Hohner 1040
Post by: Nick Collis Bird on March 30, 2015, 01:18:53 PM
Metal parts on the outside are fine to be treated. Having removed the rust it shouldn't return for many years.
If you live in or by the sea it may return quicker. A small wipe of Vaselene or similar will do the trick.
But, in my opinion not necessary. My first box, even after a Dunk (sorry Pete) in the river Syd didn't really start rusting seriously for a month or two.

Edited to correct predictive type
Title: Re: Refurbishing a Hohner 1040
Post by: Theo on March 30, 2015, 02:34:40 PM
I was referring to external parts.  Internal parts just need to be lightly brushed to remove loose dust.  You can also remove the axle rod and clean it and levers etc if they are heavily contaminated.
Title: Re: Refurbishing a Hohner 1040
Post by: boxcall on March 30, 2015, 10:01:01 PM
So no wax needed , inside rust is done already.

I'm going to bush base side, I just need to source some bushing felt. Is there a certain thickness I should use? I guessing the thinest stuff I can get?

Metal parts on the outside are fine to be treated. Having removed the rust it shouldn't return for many years.
If you live in or by the sea it may return quicker. A small wipe of Vaselene or similar will do the trick.
But, in my opinion not necessary. My first box, even after a Dunk (sorry Pete) in the river Syd didn't really start rusting seriously for a month or two.

Edited to correct predictive type
I do live near the sea but the rust was light and I've been here 30 yrs. The Box is 60 or 70 yrs old.
I'm not going to worry about it, unless I go for a boat ride ;)
Title: Re: Refurbishing a Hohner 1040
Post by: Broadland Boy on March 31, 2015, 12:12:24 AM
There's a product in the UK made by Hammerite called "Kurust" it is a thin white liquid which turns rust purple then black (phosphatises it to the less reactive iron oxide) it skins then dries - I suspect this element is a PVA or similar. It leaves the rust neutralised and encapsulated, normally painted over, for internal work it would be fine as is.

Tis not cheap but a small bottle lasts a long time (don't contaminate the bottle contents by dipping the brush back in)

I use it where mechanical rust removal is not straightforward, especially where separating wood from iron is likely to cause more damage than its worth.

Not had a melodeon bad enough to need treating but wouldn't hesitate to use it (not on reeds I hasten to add) sold by most ironmongery / vehicle fettling requisites outlets.
Title: Re: Refurbishing a Hohner 1040
Post by: boxcall on March 31, 2015, 12:57:29 AM
Thanks Richard,
I saw some stuff similar at my local auto parts store but didn't like the idea of turning things black
and was'nt sure if it left unwanted residue. I could use a big tub of it to dip the bed of my truck in though :(
Title: Re: Refurbishing a Hohner 1040
Post by: Broadland Boy on April 01, 2015, 12:38:48 AM
Bill Gates might need to think twice about a chassis sized bathfull  ;) I suspect it would darken rust stain in wood such as pallets and cloth pads, my recent Liliput has some around the pads, I might experiment and let you know the result.

If exposed, a rub down with steel wool and then a coat of lacquer will hold any further ingress at bay for a long while.
Title: Re: Refurbishing a Hohner 1040
Post by: boxcall on April 01, 2015, 01:05:02 AM
So I got the bushing done  (:)  I'll post some pics soon.
two questions:
Do the bass buttons just push back on? (no glue )
my guess is yes but figured I'd ask.

what is the material used for padding (limiting) treble buttons?
Title: Re: Refurbishing a Hohner 1040
Post by: boxcall on April 01, 2015, 02:50:50 PM
Any tricks (no april fools please) to putting buttons on bass side?
The holes in new buttons seem a little smaller than the originals and it's taking a lot of pressure to even get them started.
I'm holding metal rod just behind the hole in the case to support and I put a little piece of wood behind pivot so metal arm does not push back as I push.
what say you?
Title: Re: Refurbishing a Hohner 1040
Post by: Rees on April 01, 2015, 03:02:27 PM
I always remove the metal rod, clamp it in a vice then lightly tap the button on using a piece of softwood between the hammer and the button.
Title: Re: Refurbishing a Hohner 1040
Post by: boxcall on April 01, 2015, 03:58:29 PM
That's a good idea!! but sucks as I was hoping to put thing back together.
I know, "Man who lives on hope has a slim diet" Confucius.
Title: Re: Refurbishing a Hohner 1040
Post by: Theo on April 01, 2015, 05:59:54 PM
They are a very tight fit, you could try using a crew driver blade that is no wider than the end of the rod. Press the blade into the hole in the button to enlarge it. This will make the button easier to fit to the rod.  Go carefully though because if you enlarge the hole too much the button may fall off.
Title: Re: Refurbishing a Hohner 1040
Post by: boxcall on April 01, 2015, 09:38:27 PM
Thanks Rees & Theo!!
I did the remove the arms and put in a vise trick worked great.
I just got done putting valves the on the reeds so, I just need to wax them. Then send it out for tuning.
Still debating the waxing methods, is it ok to put all reeds in place then wax all at once or is it better to do one at a time?? I have the little nails that hold them in place some what but there is a little play.
Title: Re: Refurbishing a Hohner 1040
Post by: Theo on April 01, 2015, 09:59:40 PM
Throw the nails away! They are just a nuisance.  My method is to pull all the reeds in place, then tack them in place with a drop of wax at each end of each plate.  Then reassemble the box and play all the buttons to check the reeds are all in the correct positions! Then do the full waxing.
Title: Re: Refurbishing a Hohner 1040
Post by: Lester on April 01, 2015, 10:02:28 PM
Throw the nails away! They are just a nuisance.  My method is to pull all the reeds in place, then tack them in place with a drop of wax at each end of each plate.  Then reassemble the box and play all the buttons to check the reeds are all in the correct positions! Then do the full waxing.

+1
Title: Re: Refurbishing a Hohner 1040
Post by: boxcall on April 01, 2015, 10:09:44 PM
Ok thanks !! good idea to check placement I valved all but last two smallest reeds I should have made note but I think thats how it was?

I posted a couple of pics. here and above
Title: Re: Refurbishing a Hohner 1040
Post by: boxcall on April 01, 2015, 10:18:08 PM
I might make a new insert for finger bd. but this ones good enough for now.

one more pic. bass end
Title: Re: Refurbishing a Hohner 1040
Post by: boxcall on April 04, 2015, 09:09:22 PM
I got things back together ready for a tuning.  A couple of notes are in tune or not to far off the rest are on the sharp side.
this project was a lot of fun and I want to thank all for your support!!
here what it sounds and looks like at the moment.
Tune of the month
off to California in F on a C box

https://youtu.be/mueBGF7YVDE
Title: Re: Refurbishing a Hohner 1040
Post by: Rees on April 05, 2015, 12:37:31 AM
Sounding good already.  (:)
Title: Re: Refurbishing a Hohner 1040
Post by: Broadland Boy on April 05, 2015, 01:18:12 AM
Noooooo - you've forgotten to put all those carefully crafted Hohner clacks back in it boxcall - if you've lost them somewhere during the fettling, PM me you snailmail and I can send you some of my spares in an envelope  ;D

If you are not pleased with your progress so far, you should be its looking good and tuning apart, see above.........
Title: Re: Refurbishing a Hohner 1040
Post by: boxcall on April 05, 2015, 01:41:42 AM
Thanks Rees
I'm pretty happy with it so far, I need to do a little more tweeking.
It's a lot nicer to play now, not as clacky. I limited the buttons (I just used a strip of self adhering felt, the stuff that you'd use on furniture legs etc. seems to work) what do others use?

I have one note that does not respond as the others , sounds a little weak it's on the push.
I'll most likely let the tuner figure it out, I guess maybe a gap or maybe valve issue.
I did get a little wax on a couple valves but cleaned it off and they seemed to be moving freely and laying flat still
Maybe I should have just replaced them, I'm I the only messy waxer out there or does this sort of thing happen to the best of them?

Noooooo - you've forgotten to put all those carefully crafted Hohner clacks back in it boxcall - if you've lost them somewhere during the fettling, PM me you snailmail and I can send you some of my spares in an envelope  ;D

If you are not pleased with your progress so far, you should be its looking good and tuning apart, see above.........
It is a lot quieter now I will pm you if I miss them (:)
Title: Re: Refurbishing a Hohner 1040
Post by: boxcall on April 11, 2015, 07:59:49 PM
So I'm getting this box tuned and was wondering how to describe "original tuning"?
Maybe the folks at the button box already know but in case they ask what should I say.
It's stamped 880 in the box which I believe is the A note.
I know I need to say something more than wet ;) so how many hertz or cents would Hohner have use?
Also does one bank get tuned right on and the other get tuned slightly sharp? I guess this is done by taping over hole under pallets for each bank of reeds.
I love the loudness of these little boxes and would like to maintain that.
Thanks for any advise!