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Discussions => Tunes => Topic started by: arty on October 04, 2015, 01:45:54 PM

Title: Nadiejda, Stephane Delicq and playing in sixths.
Post by: arty on October 04, 2015, 01:45:54 PM
I have been learning Nadiejda by Stephane Delicq and have to say that I feel very lucky to have had a lot of help, instruction and advice from Massimo Craveri on this.
It is with his teaching that, for the first time, I have been learning to play (the B part) in sixths. At first I found it incredibly difficult, especially as it requires using one's thumb a lot. On the outer row, I am playing the notes with my thumb and little finger and on the inner row with my other fingers.
I know I have a long way to go yet but I am pleased with my progress, thanks to Massimo, who offered his help freely and purely out of love and enthusiasm for his old friend Stephane's music. There are some truly lovely people in this world!
I thought I would share what I have learnt so far: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIX-QYB8I2U
Excuse the face pulling!!!!  :D
Title: Re: Nadiejda, Stephane Delicq and playing in sixths.
Post by: Nigel on October 04, 2015, 02:50:09 PM
Brilliant David.
Title: Re: Nadiejda, Stephane Delicq and playing in sixths.
Post by: heartshaped1 on October 04, 2015, 07:50:12 PM
Wow, really, really good! I have been learning this tune recently and made a recording today as I felt I was making good progress....then I heard your version and realised how far I have yet to travel! Thanks for the inspiration, it's such a lovely tune I hope one day I'll do it justice.

And I have seen far worse face pulling.  (:)
Title: Re: Nadiejda, Stephane Delicq and playing in sixths.
Post by: MandoC on October 05, 2015, 02:49:29 AM
Arty:  Beautiful expressive playing.  Thanks for posting this.  Charlie
Title: Re: Nadiejda, Stephane Delicq and playing in sixths.
Post by: arty on October 05, 2015, 07:30:54 AM
Thank you all for your encouragement!

Heartshaped1......keep working at it, it is worth all the hours you put in to it!!! But please remember that I am also very much a learner too and would encourage you to study these videos on You Tube:
1st, this one of Stephane Delicq playing Nadiejda  himself - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnAB3sCm7Bg
2nd, this version played by Massimo Craveri, who was Stephane Delicq's friend. Stephane and Massimo often used to play together and Massimo has told me how he learned the way to express the music from Stephane - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r76tORVO1Qg
3rd, Yesterday, Massimo published the video he made for me, on You Tube. Here he goes through the tune very slowly, so you can work out the fingering etc - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0Q6IEDHvfY

Massimo has watched my video and written to me about it. In his email he says...."actually, that's not too bad" ! He tells me that I still have a lot of work to do, learning to use the air button better. He says, the air button should be working all the time and it is this that will enable me to give the sound more variety, more feeling and subtle differences in volume and expression. If you listen to my version again and then listen to Massimo's, you can clearly hear the difference - his is far more expressive, it is smooth and played with such feeling. I still have a long way to go and Massimo is a hard task master. But that is good - really good.

So much to learn!!! Enjoy  :D
Title: Re: Nadiejda, Stephane Delicq and playing in sixths.
Post by: Julian S on October 05, 2015, 07:55:39 AM
Lovely and inspirational playing. A wonderful tune but one I have never got round to attempting -(so many tunes - so little time! ) reckon I've got something to aim at. I also hadn't thought of using the thumb -as I have a weak little finger the thumb could prove very handy  ::)
Title: Re: Nadiejda, Stephane Delicq and playing in sixths.
Post by: Bobtheboat on October 05, 2015, 08:55:14 AM
Hey Arty, that's fantastic! I learned it from sheet music and have totally missed the 'playing in sixths' bit. To be honest I'm not sure exactly what that means!! I'm a bit behind on theory! Could you explain what it is you're doing? I'm thinking its matching the melody notes with other notes that create harmony?? (Excuse my clumsy language please!) Bob.
Title: Re: Nadiejda, Stephane Delicq and playing in sixths.
Post by: arty on October 05, 2015, 09:41:40 AM
Hi Bob....yes it is fantastic, fantastic to have the help and support of Massimo but my playing is not fantastic, so don't be fooled! I am on a very steep learning curve, it's hard but I am loving the learning process.
If you want to know what I am doing, then the best thing is for you to watch Massimo's tutorial. He made this for me about a month ago and yesterday he published it on You Tube so everyone can benefit:  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x0Q6IEDHvfY#
Title: Re: Nadiejda, Stephane Delicq and playing in sixths.
Post by: Bobtheboat on October 05, 2015, 11:14:39 AM
I've watched the tutorial a few times but he's hiding his thumb!! Bob
Title: Re: Nadiejda, Stephane Delicq and playing in sixths.
Post by: arty on October 05, 2015, 12:19:58 PM
I've watched the tutorial a few times but he's hiding his thumb!! Bob

Yes, it's not very clear visually but the sound is. I worked it out, one pair of notes at a time, by listening hard and then finding the same sound on my instrument. It took me a few hours but then it started to fall in to place.
I'll see if there is a way I can help you tonight, when I have the time but I am reluctant to do much, in case I am not showing you correctly. My advice is, don't watch the whole tutorial, just listen to one pair of notes, stop the video, then find the notes on your keyboard. When you have done that, move on to the next pair of notes.......
Title: Re: Nadiejda, Stephane Delicq and playing in sixths.
Post by: arty on October 05, 2015, 10:24:05 PM
For Bob and anyone else who is interested.

This evening, I have made a video, close up, of the fingering pattern I use to play Nadiejda, particularly the 'B' part. This is the hardest thing I have ever done!!! So, I have gone through it a few times, at different speeds, and I hope you can see my fingers and thumb clearly enough, so that it helps you to learn this wonderful tune.
I will stress....I am very much a learner, I am not a teacher and all I am doing is sharing what I have learnt. I don't know that it is necessarily right, it is just the way that I am doing it. If it helps someone else, that's great!
The one to watch, on You Tube, is Massimo Craveri, who plays this tune beautifully and has very kindly been helping me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eA-qpwlv0NY

I am playing this on a G/C instrument.
Title: Re: Nadiejda, Stephane Delicq and playing in sixths.
Post by: arty on October 05, 2015, 10:45:00 PM
The chord pattern for Nadiejda is as follows:

Am  D  Em7  Am  F  Dm7  Em7  Am  (this for both the A and B parts)

Em7:  play an E bass with a G chord
Dm7:  play a D bass with an F chord

Play the basses with the thirds IN. Do not take out the thirds.

I hope this all helps! And if it doesn't, don't blame me!!!
Title: Re: Nadiejda, Stephane Delicq and playing in sixths.
Post by: diatosoldo on October 06, 2015, 11:22:54 AM

I hope this all helps! And if it doesn't, don't blame me!!!

No, we won't ;)
Thank you for everything
Title: Re: Nadiejda, Stephane Delicq and playing in sixths.
Post by: Roger Howard on October 06, 2015, 02:33:30 PM
Thank you for the video ... It's well worth looking at carefully.

Ah, me, I never tire of Delicq's tunes.

Best wishes

Roger
Title: Re: Nadiejda, Stephane Delicq and playing in sixths.
Post by: arty on October 06, 2015, 06:25:32 PM
Thank you Roger....I made the film just to show the way I finger the B section. Don't follow my playing, I am just learning. If you want to hear it played well, listen to Massimo Craveri.  (:)
Title: Re: Nadiejda, Stephane Delicq and playing in sixths.
Post by: Chris Ryall on October 06, 2015, 11:21:51 PM
I always sort of wondered what was special about Stephane, and sadly a workshop he did in Lancaster didn't explain that. Thanks so much for this. Have played in 3rds (haven't we all) 4ths and octaves but I never though of 6ths.

It is so COOL … am like a kid with a new toy  (:)
Title: Re: Nadiejda, Stephane Delicq and playing in sixths.
Post by: Bobtheboat on October 07, 2015, 08:23:39 AM
Hi Arty, that's great! Thanks so much for taking the time to do the video, what a gent! That'll keep me busy for a few hours ::). Bob
Title: Re: Nadiejda, Stephane Delicq and playing in sixths.
Post by: penn on October 08, 2015, 11:55:56 PM
Arty, thanks to your slow video I get it now - the thumb pattern is a very smart thing and I can see how using it suits hopping the chords back and forth across the rows.
Do we know if this is how Stephane Delicq played the tune? It looks as if it may be from the video, but it's pretty blurred.

Thanks for the explanation, there's always something new to think about!

Steve
Title: Re: Nadiejda, Stephane Delicq and playing in sixths.
Post by: AirTime on October 09, 2015, 12:32:57 AM
I admire your dedication Arty! You are making great progress.

I first came across this tune on youtube as played, very nicely (& in a casual setting) by this young lady.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up5BEZypXoY&list=PLj-bQFDfMfl7eYxPeQUd4Mmmbtk54yWmE
Title: Re: Nadiejda, Stephane Delicq and playing in sixths.
Post by: arty on October 09, 2015, 06:59:02 AM
I admire your dedication Arty! You are making great progress.

I first came across this tune on youtube as played, very nicely (& in a casual setting) by this young lady.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up5BEZypXoY&list=PLj-bQFDfMfl7eYxPeQUd4Mmmbtk54yWmE

That's a different tune AirTime, that one is called La Discrete.
Title: Re: Nadiejda, Stephane Delicq and playing in sixths.
Post by: playandteach on October 25, 2015, 05:29:32 PM
For Bob and anyone else who is interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eA-qpwlv0NY
I am playing this on a G/C instrument.
Nice playing, and nice instrument.
For what it's worth - I haven't worried about using the thumb for 6ths as I quite like the lower 6ths to be a little shorter in note length than the upper note so that the harmony doesn't swamp the tune - not that I'm hearing that in your playing, just saying that I feel it can happen when I play - due to the air wanting to go to the lower notes). Please take this with the knowledge that David is showing better progress than I have, so no criticism intended.
Also, for what it's worth I like the strong clash of having to use Dm7 (instead of the D major chord for example at 2' 10" on your fingering video) - but that's the way I learnt it on a no-thirds box (again a G/C box).
Lastly, anyone who likes 6ths and Delicq could look at Vivre and Estrellas.
What I particularly like is where the right hand 6ths Am pattern are repeated over a Dm chord - so that you get a strong clash (major 9th of the E against the minor 3rd, F). I realise talking notes like this is like describing taste - if anyone wants to look at the music I'd happily upload it (or at least my best guess at it).
Title: Re: Nadiejda, Stephane Delicq and playing in sixths.
Post by: Wolfgang on September 03, 2016, 11:06:43 AM
What a great thread. Not only did I discover Stephane Delicq, it is such a joy to find new music, but this discussion is also a gem. Thanks to the contributors I can go about trying to play it myself. Doesn't look difficult in a technical sense, musicality is entirely another matter of course. For now I'm happy if I can find the right notes.

Greetings
Title: Re: Nadiejda, Stephane Delicq and playing in sixths.
Post by: Jack Campin on September 03, 2016, 02:46:14 PM
Is the stuff Delicq does in the second half of the video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnAB3sCm7Bg

a one-off improvisation, or did he think of it as a fixed part of the composition?  That is, did he do it that way other times?  (It's great whichever it is).
Title: Re: Nadiejda, Stephane Delicq and playing in sixths.
Post by: playandteach on September 03, 2016, 03:52:12 PM
If you mean the 6ths, then I believe that's the composition - as he does that in quite a lot of his pieces from the start. There are, of course, variants as he goes along - which are just that, but everything I hear in this performance agrees with the way I notated it from the tabs I found.
On another point, in the last 6 seconds of that video he starts another tune I've not come across. Any ideas what it is?
Title: Re: Nadiejda, Stephane Delicq and playing in sixths.
Post by: PeterPe on September 11, 2016, 06:01:32 PM
I love this! Brand new member - ink barely dry on the application- and Lo and Behold - Nadiejda explained in three easy steps! I have tried learning this tune by watching The Master himself on Youtube endlessly. Just could not quite get it together. Those dratted 6ths. I was even bracing myself for the possibility of having to go to a better box. ;) Bettter luck with that ploy next time I guess. Thanks! PeterP
Title: Re: Nadiejda, Stephane Delicq and playing in sixths.
Post by: Thrupenny Bit on September 12, 2016, 05:30:28 PM
Arty - what a brilliant video!
I confess I'd given up on the tune as I couldn't get it sounding right. A DG box doesn't help apart from the fingering. Your GC sounds lovely.
Looks like I need to revisit this another evening - Morris waits for no one!
Thanks for this
Cheers
Q
Title: Re: Nadiejda, Stephane Delicq and playing in sixths.
Post by: Pete Dunk on December 22, 2018, 05:02:20 PM
I admire your dedication Arty! You are making great progress.

I first came across this tune on youtube as played, very nicely (& in a casual setting) by this young lady.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up5BEZypXoY&list=PLj-bQFDfMfl7eYxPeQUd4Mmmbtk54yWmE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up5BEZypXoY&list=PLj-bQFDfMfl7eYxPeQUd4Mmmbtk54yWmE)

That's a different tune AirTime, that one is called La Discrete.

I had to bring this old thread back up to the top because of the great content throughout and add a link to a video of the other Stephane Delicq tune mentioned here which also features plenty of sixth playing. La Discrete played in full.  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRszYRIsJWY)
Title: Re: Nadiejda, Stephane Delicq and playing in sixths.
Post by: arty on December 22, 2018, 07:27:39 PM

I had to bring this old thread back up to the top

I know there is a huge interest in the music of Stephane Delicq and, as I learn more and more of his tunes, I can understand why. For anyone who is wanting to learn his techniques, I strongly recommend studying this video. This is a close up video of Stephane himself, giving a tutorial on playing a Five Time Waltz. The second half shows very clearly how he plays in 6ths, sometimes using his thumb, sometimes not. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v68REy_sZ0
There is another thing that he did, which is not so easy to see - it is do with his use of the air button. You will notice, in this video, how much the bellows open or close during what is often a very short phrase of just a few notes. I am told, that he was in the habit of playing with his left hand thumb applying very slight pressure, in different degrees, on the air button, which allowed him to open or close the bellows freely, while playing. This gave him a method of controlling the volume, (as if the air button was a volume control), in order to add feeling to the sound he was making. I don't really know how else to describe it but I will say that I have spent hours and hours trying to do this and it is very hard! When I do manage to do it, usually when I am practicing very slowly, it does make a remarkable difference. The trick is to have the air button fractionally open pretty much all of the time but then increasing the pressure on your thumb, by a fraction, which opens the air button a tiny bit more and therefore reduces the volume. And all of this, while playing and without missing a beat! Good luck with that one!
La Discrete is truly a wonderful tune, I play it several times a week!
Another really lovely tune, which includes playing in 6ths with the thumb, is Jamais Deux Sans Toi...here is my effort: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIv3J7u9EOE
Then there is this....Les Novis, which requires that you use the thumb in the 'B' part but not to play in 6ths. This is my favourite Delicq tune to play, so far: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rmv4XGhhd1w

And don't forget, there is now a really nice book of Stephane Delicq's sheet music, published by his daughter and available through the Stephane Delicq Facebook page.