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Discussions => Tune of the Month => Topic started by: Clive Williams on May 01, 2016, 01:56:51 PM

Title: Tune of the Month for May 2016: Sansonette
Post by: Clive Williams on May 01, 2016, 01:56:51 PM
The people have spoken!

This month's tune: Sansonnette, a wonderful schottische, perhaps "the" schottische, written by Dominique Forges a fine gurdy (and other things) player with (I believe) la Chavannee (and other groups).

I've already done this one when we had a schottische theme, , and it looks like this on a Hohner C/F https://youtu.be/OVH5oAJt44Y?t=2m7s

There are quite a few others out there too, like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MT52Y7YqN2Y and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89fh8X8KpSw . I used to think ideally it needed accidentals to get that opening few notes right (one of the reasons it hasn't been nominated yet), but the last example seems to zap along quite nicely without apparently hitting any accidentals, so perhaps you can get away with it quite easily.

Fits nicely on a 2 row with accidentals; if you haven't got accidentals, you can skip it quite successfully as shown above. On a 1 row, I don't know! Perhaps we'll find out!

Cheers,

Clive
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2016: Sansonette
Post by: playandteach on May 01, 2016, 03:36:28 PM
If anyone has time to upload dots, I'd appreciate it - could be in any key, though I'll probably end up playing it in Am.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2016: Sansonette
Post by: arty on May 01, 2016, 04:38:25 PM
Hopefully this will do you P&T, http://p0.storage.canalblog.com/08/48/637548/72263649.pdf
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2016: Sansonette
Post by: playandteach on May 01, 2016, 04:52:52 PM
Thanks, Arty. I can tweak from there.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2016: Sansonette
Post by: TomBom on May 01, 2016, 05:11:38 PM
There is a version in Dm:

http://archive.folx.org/tune/scottishe/sansonette-58

and another in Gm:

http://archive.folx.org/node/3971
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2016: Sansonette
Post by: Etienne on May 01, 2016, 09:13:47 PM
The abc in Am (from the first file)

X:406
T:La sansonette
C:Dominique Forges
R:scottiche
M:4/4
L:1/8
K:Am
|: e2  d2 ed cB | zd cB A4 | AB cd ed e2 | g2  f2 e4 |
e2 de d2 cB | zd cB A4 | AB cd e2 dc | Bc de B4 :|
|: e2 ce fc ef | e2 ce fc ef | B3 e fB ef | e2 Be fB ef | e2 ce fc eg |
eA ce f2 eB | zf ed cB |1 AB cB A4 :|2 AB cB A4- | A8 ||
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2016: Sansonette
Post by: Chris Ryall on May 01, 2016, 10:53:11 PM
Dominic Dominique is local to Embraud, but not a primary member of Chavannée. he wrote the tune in mid 1990s but didn't have a name for it. Bumbling home one evening through the "D" roads he saw a starling, moribund by the side of the road and named his tune in the dying bird's honour!

It uses the dorian #4 scale, a mode of harmonic minor (gurdies LOVE harmonic minor)', originally in D. Nowadays more commonly Am amongst the French melodeonista.  I taped it in St Chartier 1996 or so played by a 15+ gurdy band led by Patrick Bouffard. The dance floor was rocking and I was mesmerised, what an earworm! Basses can be awkward - ideally one person plays the tune, another the chording. Worth trying in Bm on a DG, and consider basses only rather than full chords on left hand as it isn't diatonic.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2016: Sansonette
Post by: Peter Savage on May 02, 2016, 07:36:12 AM
E minor for me...

X:406
T:La Sansonette (from the playing of Claire Halliday)
C:Dominique Forges
R:scottiche
M:4/4
L:1/8
K:Em
B2|: B2  AB A2 GF | FA GF E4 | EF GA BA B2 | d2  c2 B3A |
B2 AB A2 GF | FA GF E4 | EF GA B2 AG | F2 F2 E2 EE :|
|: B2 GB cG Bc | B2 GB cG Bc | F3 B cF Bc | F3 B cF cB | B2 GB cG Bc |
B2 GB cG Bc | Bc BA GF |1 EF GF E4 :|2 EF GF E4- | E8 ||

Or maybe a nice low B minor...

X:406
T:La Sansonette (from the playing of Claire Halliday) C:Dominique Forges R:scottiche
M:4/4
L:1/8
K:Bm
F2|: F2  EF E2 DC | CE DC B,4 | B,C DE FE F2 | A2  G2 F3E |
F2 EF E2 DC | CE DC B,4 | B,C DE F2 ED | C2 C2 B,2 B,B, :|
|: F2 DF GD FG | F2 DF GD FG | C3 F GC FG | C3 F GC GF | F2 DF GD FG |
F2 DF GD FG | FG FE DC |1 B,C DC B,4 :|2 B,C DC B,4- | B,8 ||

Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2016: Sansonette
Post by: playandteach on May 02, 2016, 09:40:26 AM
I've just had a few emails with Dominique Forges (who wrote Sansonette), and he's looking to bring his duo (I think it's him singing and playing hurdy gurdys plus a guitarist) over to England for a tour in October (around 20th October to 2nd November). They are willing to put on concerts or Bals and are looking for venues (and fees).
They are working on a ball park figure of €400 plus VAT with acommodation and meals provided. I live in Hexham and there are a couple of venues there, but others amongst you will know better than I do what the norm is about payment - is it revenue generated on the door, or does someone else take that risk in order to put on the event. Doesn't have to be in Hexham or even in the north - any offers appreciated.
So - any suggestions I can pass on about helping them with their tour?
I appreciate this will need moving to another thread - just wanted to hit the Sansonette page.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2016: Sansonette
Post by: Chris Ryall on May 02, 2016, 10:03:07 AM
Brilliant idea. The french bal scene in Wirral has evaporated, but I'd love to attend a dance starring these two. Last saw him with the Paris brothers when they came here to Birkenhead Priory.

Been attacking the tune in Dm on my 3 row, and although the sharp 4 (that's Ab, folk get shot for playing those ;)) is a big feature in A music - like so many minor tunes things get "flexible" as to whether B or Bb is played in the upper part of scale.

The A music actually uses the whole Dm blues scale and no other notes! This is gurdy music and was written for the rhythmic drive of the wheel, and as a scottiche it also wants what Andy Cutting calls (and does so well) "a skip".

I cannot find Forges or Bouffard [ed: playing sansonnette] on youtube, but this young fella is more or less spot on

   http://youtu.be/kGuam3JVeqo

[ed2] Play'n'teach's Lâchez les chiens mass band version has something of what I heard in that square in 1996  :P
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2016: Sansonette
Post by: playandteach on May 02, 2016, 10:57:13 AM

I cannot find Forges or Bouffard on youtube,
Chris - It might be because you are looking for Dominic Forges? Try Dominique Forges - but here's a couple to get you going:
Website (http://www.lacompagnieberot.com/cb_v2/index.php/lesgroupesmenu/domniqueforgesmenu)
Youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVZ1fF9Vjgc)

Dominique says that he'd reduce the prices if several events could be organised. I'm not looking to be a middle man here - just looking for people who are happy for me to pass on their email addresses if they might be able to help them.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2016: Sansonette
Post by: Nigel on May 02, 2016, 11:22:08 AM
Hi PlayandTeach. Your post has brightened up this rainy morning. I want to support this, live in your area and will PM you soon. This could do with a separate thread. Can you do it? 
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2016: Sansonette
Post by: Ellisteph on May 02, 2016, 11:45:29 AM

I cannot find Forges or Bouffard on youtube,
Chris - It might be because you are looking for Dominic Forges? Try Dominique Forges - but here's a couple to get you going:

So it's Dominique? Not Dominic or Daniel as quoted on Tom Bom's Dm link. And Sansonette means a Starling? Just clarifying the facts before I settle down to learn it.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2016: Sansonette
Post by: Cooper on May 02, 2016, 12:11:55 PM
and as a scottiche it also wants what Andy Cutting calls (and does so well) "a skip".

what woudl that be then, a "skip"?
W
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2016: Sansonette
Post by: Chris Ryall on May 02, 2016, 01:09:40 PM
So it's Dominique? Not Dominic or Daniel as quoted on Tom Bom's Dm link. And Sansonette means a Starling? Just clarifying the facts before I settle down to learn it.

Sturnus vulgaris https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89tourneau_sansonnet

what would that be then, a "skip"? W

In the dance springen … misschien huppelen? (break step with a little hop)
In the music - a little break of rhythm that informs that - but you can scottiche well enough!  ;)

Tyneside people - I can get to/ support a Dominique Forge dance, if one happens. My Mum lives up there :D
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2016: Sansonette
Post by: folkbluesnbeyond on May 02, 2016, 04:59:50 PM
The clacky box, (one of).

https://youtu.be/ZHlWg6LPQbE

All the best

Bill
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2016: Sansonette
Post by: jorden on May 03, 2016, 07:45:23 PM
http://www.lacompagnieberot.com/cb_v2/images/cb/audio/Sansonnette2.mp3 (http://www.lacompagnieberot.com/cb_v2/images/cb/audio/Sansonnette2.mp3)

Playandteach already linked to this page, but some might have missed the link to the mp3 of Sansonnette by Dominique Forges on the homepage of his site.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2016: Sansonette
Post by: Chris Ryall on May 03, 2016, 10:25:13 PM
Superb!
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2016: Sansonette
Post by: Nigel on May 06, 2016, 09:25:43 AM
I've just had a few emails with Dominique Forges (who wrote Sansonette), and he's looking to bring his duo (I think it's him singing and playing hurdy gurdys plus a guitarist) over to England for a tour in October (around 20th October to 2nd November).
So - any suggestions I can pass on about helping them with their tour?
I appreciate this will need moving to another thread - just wanted to hit the Sansonette page.

I opened a new post about this initiative on the News and Events Board . So far, it appears that there is only an interest in the North East!   
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2016: Sansonette
Post by: Helena Handcart on May 06, 2016, 11:46:53 AM
I really love this tune and have had fun noodling around with it for the last few days. The 'A' is coming together nicely but the 'B' - well I just can't decide where I want to be with the basses. Naturally it feels like it should all be pretty much all on the pull but that's not really where I want to be. At the risk of promoting the dreaded thread drift (sorry Theo) dare I ask what others would suggest for the B music?  I should add that in accordance with Bailey's First Law of Female Melodeon Players I am playing this in Em using the ABC from Bavarian Pete.

Cheers :)


Nell
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2016: Sansonette
Post by: Lester on May 06, 2016, 11:54:49 AM
Bailey's First Law of Female Melodeon Players

 (:)
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2016: Sansonette
Post by: Cooper on May 06, 2016, 01:14:58 PM

what would that be then, a "skip"? W

In the dance springen … misschien huppelen? (break step with a little hop)
In the music - a little break of rhythm that informs that - but you can scottiche well enough!  ;)
Ah, right, i thought it was e specific "move" in his playing. And it probably still is, but i was hoping there was a "how to" from him ;-)
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2016: Sansonette
Post by: Julian S on May 06, 2016, 01:26:34 PM
I have to say I have enjoyed playing this challenging tune since Andy's workshop at MatW but I regret not writing down his chord pattern ! For the B part I use Em (bars 1/2), D or Bm (3/4)  C (5/6) A then Bm (bar 7) and Em for 8. Thirds out - and I have a really useful Em push chord and a C reversal on the helper row on my Pastourelle. I'm sure there are other options - I like to vary chord pattern to add interest and it'll be great to hear different versions. Unfortunately I'm too shy to sit in front of a camera to record mine !
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2016: Sansonette
Post by: Helena Handcart on May 06, 2016, 01:38:05 PM
I have to say I have enjoyed playing this challenging tune since Andy's workshop at MatW but I regret not writing down his chord pattern ! For the B part I use Em (bars 1/2), D or Bm (3/4)  C (5/6) A then Bm (bar 7) and Em for 8.

Thanks Julian - looking at this it is pretty similar to what I am playing apart from one bar.   If any kind souls did note down the chord pattern than Andy taught and is happy to share I'd be grateful.

Cheers all 
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2016: Sansonette
Post by: Clive Williams on May 07, 2016, 01:40:28 AM
Not sure I can play this any different to my first attempt; it's original form is just too strong for me.

So... instead here's one of my very occasional walkthrough tutorials for the tune, where I go through it bit by bit on a 2 row D/G (playing in Em). If you're struggling, perhaps it might help you out?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LTpTEYAGQk

Cheers,

Clive
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2016: Sansonette
Post by: playandteach on May 07, 2016, 10:08:32 AM
Good job. Thanks
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2016: Sansonette
Post by: Gary Chapin on May 07, 2016, 03:00:23 PM
Hola, Nell,

I have to say I have enjoyed playing this challenging tune since Andy's workshop at MatW but I regret not writing down his chord pattern ! For the B part I use Em (bars 1/2), D or Bm (3/4)  C (5/6) A then Bm (bar 7) and Em for 8.
Thanks Julian - looking at this it is pretty similar to what I am playing ...

Looking at Bill's excellent version on the G/C pokerwork it looks like (in D/G terms) instead of Bm for bars 3 and 4, he's doing Gmaj (which becomes a G7 with the melody line). I think it adds a nice touch.

I too am kind of obsessing on this tune. There are a startling number of versions out there. One of my favs (non-melodeon) is this one: https://youtu.be/wZqooNZXhT8
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2016: Sansonette
Post by: Helena Handcart on May 08, 2016, 10:46:38 AM
Not sure I can play this any different to my first attempt; it's original form is just too strong for me.

So... instead here's one of my very occasional walkthrough tutorials for the tune, where I go through it bit by bit on a 2 row D/G (playing in Em). If you're struggling, perhaps it might help you out?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LTpTEYAGQk

Cheers,

Clive

Thanks Clive, this is really useful. Thanks for taking the time to do this.

I spent some time on this tune on Friday evening and thought I'd pretty much nailed it but you have given me some further food for thought. It's almost as if I can find too many options with this tune and need to narrow down what I want to. That said it has been a really useful experience for me in examining how I learn tunes and construct basslines, including some collaborative working on the tune via the internet with a mate on the other side of town and another in the States.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2016: Sansonette
Post by: Anahata on May 17, 2016, 10:45:54 PM
It's been very quiet here for a few days.

Here's my Sansonette: https://youtu.be/8_C1xg1lC4M

Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2016: Sansonette
Post by: Ellisteph on May 17, 2016, 10:52:20 PM
It's been very quiet here for a few days.

Here's my Sansonette: https://youtu.be/8_C1xg1lC4M
Well that's just wonderful. I really like the bass notes; must take some concentration.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2016: Sansonette
Post by: playandteach on May 17, 2016, 11:57:43 PM
Help me out here, Anahata. How are you not playing the majority of the B section on the pull? Great stuff, by the way.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2016: Sansonette
Post by: arty on May 18, 2016, 07:05:41 AM
It's been very quiet here for a few days.

Here's my Sansonette: https://youtu.be/8_C1xg1lC4M

Whoop whoop....fantastic!!!
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2016: Sansonette
Post by: Anahata on May 18, 2016, 07:43:35 AM
Help me out here, Anahata. How are you not playing the majority of the B section on the pull? Great stuff, by the way.
Er.... by playing notes on the push when I can!
Most of it can be played push on the first half of the bar and pull on the second half. Then it's a matter of finding a plausible bass line that fits with that scheme.
Bar 1 : all pull (you've got to have that E minor to establish the home key)
Bar 2 : D bass push (ideally with G chord) then C bass pull
Bar 3 : B bass push, then A pull (using C chord to make Am7)
Bar 4 : Exactly the same as bar 3
Bar 5 : Either like bar 1, or G push, then Emin pull
Bar 6 : same as bar 2
Bar 7 : Plenty of push B, with a tiny gap for the offbeat C in the second note
Bar 8 : you're home and dry!

- The G in bar 5 makes a nice continuation of the descending bass scale, but shouldn't be overdone.
- There are obviously enough push opportunities to keep things balanced with the air button.
- Clive does D push D and then pull D in bars 3 and 4, creating a strong D7 harmony. That works too.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2016: Sansonette
Post by: Prestidigitator on May 18, 2016, 10:02:09 AM
Love it! It's a nice tune anyway, but really comes alive here.

Probably be in the Melodeon Doghouse for saying so, but the other version I really like is that by the Tony Eyers Harmonica Trio (that's @Harmonicatunes on Melnet) on, yes, harmonicas! To be really bold, I'll post the Youtube link:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPPBplt_A8M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPPBplt_A8M)
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2016: Sansonette
Post by: Jackhumphreys on May 18, 2016, 10:14:59 AM
Here's the composer himself and his band, playing at Grand Bal de Bath
https://youtu.be/sqVIS1GbmcE
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2016: Sansonette
Post by: playandteach on May 18, 2016, 01:08:38 PM
Help me out here, Anahata. How are you not playing the majority of the B section on the pull? Great stuff, by the way.
Er.... by playing notes on the push when I can!
Thanks, hopefully I'll find time next week to have a proper go.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2016: Sansonette
Post by: Chris Brimley on May 19, 2016, 02:02:40 PM
Here's my version:

https://soundcloud.com/user9632366/t41-la-sansonette-1

(Updated 20/5/16)

I also found Em to be the easiest key, though originally I preferred Am.

It was interesting for me to look at everyone else's ways of learning this tune, because as a DGAcc player with a long third row including reversals, I've found I actually learn tunes quite differently from many of you.  For me, I first look at the tune I want to play, and crucially decide in advance on the chord/bass accompaniment I'm going to use.  In this tune, there were two particular challenges - first, playing the A# (flattened fifth) note against Em accompaniment (which I only have on pull) - this decided the key, because fortunately I have A# in both directions on the RHS.  And second, how to play the tricky B music with a good flowing accompaniment to achieve something like the drone trompette sound of a hurdy-gurdy.  To do this, I needed to split the B music into 2-bar segments, because they obviously need to be flowing arpeggios, if you're going to match Dominique's sound at all.  OK, so this means a couple of bars all on the pull of arpeggio notes from the Em chord, followed by the push direction D7 notes to balance the bellows, and lastly the Cma7 arpeggio on the pull, utilising my third row C reversal (actually, Dominique's guitarist chum doesn't play Cma7, he reverts to the original chord - Em in my speak).  But personally, I like the descending accompaniment.  Anyway, the huge benefits from learning it this way are that it flows so well - you are matching the way the young hurdy-gurdy player does it (the one Chris R liked), and you can speed it up to your heart's content, still keeping the groove, if you want.

The next thing is that luckily, with a box, you do not have to stick to an incessant hurdy-gurdy drone - you can mix it up with some rumpty-tumpty.  And this is one point about this tune that really works well on the box, because there are some lovely bits that fit that idea too.
 

I do feel a bit embarrassed because the end result has patently been somewhat Anglicised, but hey, it's an interpretation!


Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2016: Sansonette
Post by: Gary Chapin on May 27, 2016, 06:19:38 PM
Okay, here's my late in the month entry (it always takes me about a month to get comfortable with an interesting tune).

https://youtu.be/DMOZ6mccsEc

I play it on my Dino Baffetti 3-row, on the Bb and Eb rows, in G minor (would be F# minor on a DG box, E minor on a GC box).

I took a different approach than you all here, in that I entered into Major territory for the B section, and I think it's delightful, contrasted with the minor A section.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2016: Sansonette
Post by: Jackhumphreys on May 30, 2016, 07:36:46 PM
Just made it before the 31st. Trying to prioritise tune and rhythm.

https://youtu.be/R-3wP3d5A5o

Recorded with
a)  drone style basses (Forges is a gurdy player after all, so maybe drone is best for this tune)
b)  simple I and V chords.
c)  the dreaded descending basses

With a metronome earphone to keep me regular.

Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2016: Sansonette
Post by: playandteach on May 30, 2016, 09:27:32 PM
Well done JH. I've run out of time for this one. Life got in the way.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2016: Sansonette
Post by: Helena Handcart on May 31, 2016, 07:46:33 PM
A last minute entry from me as I've just got back from Chippenham FF, I struggled with this one and it still needs work but time is running out so here it is:

La Sansonette (https://soundcloud.com/nellodeon/la-sansonnette)
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2016: Sansonette
Post by: Nigel on May 31, 2016, 09:09:37 PM
Helena posted
"A last minute entry from me as I've just got back from Chippenham FF, I struggled with this one and it still needs work but time is running out so here it is: La Sansonette"

Hi Helena,
It sounded pretty good to me and you really got the rhythm towards the end. This has to be a difficult tune as confirmed by the number of plays on this topic. So, full marks. I hope to be able to attempt it one day.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2016: Sansonette
Post by: Clive Williams on May 31, 2016, 10:52:44 PM
Thanks again all, and thanks to Dominique for his great, great tune. On to the next tune, but as usual feel free to stick late contributions onto the end of this thread!

Cheers,

Clive