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Discussions => Instrument Makes and Models => Topic started by: 911377brian on June 13, 2016, 04:21:53 PM

Title: Weltmeisters 4 stoppers
Post by: 911377brian on June 13, 2016, 04:21:53 PM
As German made Hohner 114's in D seem to be as rare as hens teeth I've been wondering about Weltmeister 4 stoppers.I see new ones advertised regularly but they are invariably described as Cajun tuned; is that tuning very different to the 114's tuning? How do Weltmeisters compare  with  114's in playability and sound?
Title: Re: Weltmeisters 4 stoppers
Post by: squeezy on June 13, 2016, 04:27:22 PM
They're very different.  I had one many years ago in C and it was much bigger and heavier than a 114 with a much less bright sound.  They are a very standard one-row build - like a lot of the italian ones, but they are very inferior in quality.

I found multiple problems of the keyboard sticking when the wood swelled up in higher humidity, it wasn't very powerful and the reeds were quite sluggish.  I ended up selling it on having hardly played it.

This was about 15 years ago and they may well have improved, but if they haven't I can think of much better ways to spend about £800!
Title: Re: Weltmeisters 4 stoppers
Post by: TomBom on June 13, 2016, 04:50:30 PM
While I cannot compare them to a Hohner 114 I tend to disagree about the quality. I like mine a lot, reed response is quite good. It was built in 2011.
You can order them without cajun tuning. They are bigger though than a Hohner and heavier, ca. 2.8 kg
Height ca. 28 cm, depth 18 cm.
Title: Re: Weltmeisters 4 stoppers
Post by: rileycat on June 13, 2016, 05:24:12 PM
My one in G is easier to play than the equivalent 114 in G - it's quite new and seems well enough put together for the money I paid 2nd hand. Having said that, I'd still favour the Hohner in D if you can wait to find one - there's something about the Hohner bark which to my ear sounds better (more raucous?) than the Weltmeister, which sounds a bit too 'polite' tonally!
Title: Re: Weltmeisters 4 stoppers
Post by: 911377brian on June 13, 2016, 05:57:44 PM
That's what I wanted to know Rileycat, the difference in sound. If it doesn't sound something like a 114 then it won't do. Weight doesn't bother me as my boxes sit on my lap when I'm playing. Thanks Squeezy and Tom for your observations
Title: Re: Weltmeisters 4 stoppers
Post by: TomBom on June 13, 2016, 06:10:17 PM
Yep, it sounds polite. I can confirm that.
Title: Re: Weltmeisters 4 stoppers
Post by: forrest on June 13, 2016, 08:12:30 PM
  I have owned two Welty 4 stops, a C (which I sold) and a D. They were very sturdy and neatly turned out. They have stand-up reed blocks, so are a bit more polite. My D box has a cabinet of solid beech, mitered corners, and it's a bit heavy. The reed quality seems good, although as furnished from the factory, they do not seem to be set well. I reset and retuned both of mine, and it improved sound and playability enormously.
  The factory "Cajun" tuning on mine consisted of flattened thirds, with no other discernible variations from ET. In fact, the thirds were tuned flatter that pure (who knows why) to about -16 cents. I altered this so that they are around -10 cents, and are quite a bit more compatible with guitars, etc. The C box got retuned to 1/4 comma meantone, and was a great sounding box.
  I found the springs a bit stiff on these, and need some limiting on travel. I haven't gone down that road yet. I also found the air button to be difficult for me, and needed to allow more air in or out when called for. Please note that I have been struggling to play one rows for about 10 years now, and am not doing well with it, as my hands are no longer up to the demands required to operate it. Would love to try a high-end 4 stop sometime just to compare.

Here's a clip of the C in 1/4 comma meantone : https://youtu.be/olGp62lbFlk (https://youtu.be/olGp62lbFlk)
Title: Re: Weltmeisters 4 stoppers
Post by: invadm on June 13, 2016, 08:37:43 PM
Allodi accordion in Lewisham usaly keeps a few box in stoc for both welty and hohners C and D,on my last visit to Emilio I played one of his welty and a new 114, they both good but differnt,I like 114 sound but Emilio likes wely's more..I don't know where you are but pop in if you can to his shop and you can play as looooong as you like.very nice man he is  (:)
Title: Re: Weltmeisters 4 stoppers
Post by: 911377brian on June 13, 2016, 09:05:32 PM
Thanks for the tune, Forrest. Having never seen a Weltmeister in the flesh I'm surprised to see that the bass end has buttons rather than spoons...I'll be in sarf Lunnen in a couple of weeks Invadm and I'll pop into Allodi if I'm not sorted by then...
Title: Re: Weltmeisters 4 stoppers
Post by: melodeon on June 13, 2016, 09:17:35 PM
I, too, owned one of these branded Gallota  or Galotta.

Decent box, played mine for a year and sold it to a player who had it re-tuned "Cajun" by Jude Moreau.

There are some  plastic bits on the inside, slides as I recall. But, still functional.

Not as powerful as a Hohner but acceptable and if  purchased cheap.. considering you may want to upgrade. . would make a fine box.

These also came branded "REGAL"..      I believe Marc Savoy used to sell them.
Title: Re: Weltmeisters 4 stoppers
Post by: mselic on June 13, 2016, 11:09:27 PM
Having played both (and owned Hohners), I would say the Weltmeister sounds and feels nothing like the HA114.  It really depends on personal taste, as some people would consider that difference to be an improvement, while others, such as myself, feel that a lot of the charm of the HA114 is lost with the Weltmeister.  As far as 4-stops go, I would rather a Hohner or much better quality box; I haven't been impressed by any of what's "in-between", so to speak.  Again, it's all personal preference, but do try one if get the chance so that you can see for yourself.
Title: Re: Weltmeisters 4 stoppers
Post by: 911377brian on June 14, 2016, 08:18:41 AM
This has been really helpful and I'm grateful for all the input.Never having seen or heard a Weltmeister in the flesh I now know that it sounds nothing like a 114 and doesn't have the spoon basses I feel so comfortable with. Thanks..
Title: Re: Weltmeisters 4 stoppers
Post by: melodeon on June 14, 2016, 07:25:11 PM
To add, the Galotta was my second button accordion.
My first came from Paul Groff around '93-94.

The Galotta came to me from Hobgoblin in a trade for 50 sets of rosewood "bones" I made for them.
Title: Re: Weltmeisters 4 stoppers
Post by: forrest on June 14, 2016, 07:49:28 PM
To add, the Galotta was my second button accordion.
My first came from Paul Groff around '93-94.

The Galotta came to me from Hobgoblin in a trade for 50 sets of rosewood "bones" I made for them.

Hmmm....would that be Hobgoblin USA in South SF?
Title: Re: Weltmeisters 4 stoppers
Post by: melodeon on June 14, 2016, 10:15:29 PM
Nope, Crawley.  Neil McRitchie.
Title: Re: Weltmeisters 4 stoppers
Post by: Helena Handcart on June 14, 2016, 11:04:53 PM
Nope, Crawley.  Neil McRitchie.

Blimey - Crawley Hobgob now closed down, McRitchie flown north (to Scotland) over a year ago.
Title: Re: Weltmeisters 4 stoppers
Post by: melodeon on June 15, 2016, 12:01:05 AM
McRitchie went to Scotland... ?   On the run or or ??? : )
With ginger hair and a kilt he should be right at home.

Any idea what he is doing.?  Taken up the pipes ?

I tried calling him a while back but the number was not in service..
Title: Re: Weltmeisters 4 stoppers
Post by: Rees on June 15, 2016, 12:40:30 AM
Neil has a gorgeous place in Scotland, rents out various holiday accommodation for the likes of you and I and enjoys walking his dog.
Look him up, I forgot where it is.

P.S. He often wears a kilt, the noo.
Title: Re: Weltmeisters 4 stoppers
Post by: Theo on June 15, 2016, 08:22:24 AM
Fort William
Title: Re: Weltmeisters 4 stoppers
Post by: Simon W on June 15, 2016, 09:20:02 AM
McRitchie went to Scotland... ?   On the run or or ??? : )
With ginger hair and a kilt he should be right at home.

Any idea what he is doing.?  Taken up the pipes ?

I tried calling him a while back but the number was not in service..

You can find him here
http://rowanbrae.org/

Beautiful part of the world.

Simon
Title: Re: Weltmeisters 4 stoppers
Post by: melodeon on June 15, 2016, 02:14:29 PM
Thanks for the info.
Title: Re: Weltmeisters 4 stoppers
Post by: triskel on June 15, 2016, 03:52:38 PM
You can find him here
http://rowanbrae.org/

Beautiful part of the world.

Must look him up, next time I'm in the Highlands!
Title: Re: Weltmeisters 4 stoppers
Post by: melodeon on June 15, 2016, 08:44:20 PM
Wonder if he is still playing his beloved Lilly and another larger  Castagnari and still slagging Hohners : )

I may have to alter my next vacation plans.