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Discussions => General Discussion => Topic started by: Jack Humphreys on October 24, 2016, 08:56:18 AM

Title: CLIP-ON MIKE recommendations requested
Post by: Jack Humphreys on October 24, 2016, 08:56:18 AM
I'd be grateful for recommendations for a good quality clip-on mike for melodeon. Have you used one successfully.

I'd planned on using the AKG 516, but it needs to have a base-plate permanently fitted to each box, with screws or sticky stuff.  So that 6 base-plates for three boxes; and I'm not keen on defacing the boxes.  I have seen from Andy Cutting's example how easy it is to transfer a clip mike between boxes.

(Putting this as a new thread as more specific than the general "Interface"  discussion.)
Title: Re: CLIP-ON MIKE recommendations requested
Post by: Theo on October 24, 2016, 10:24:28 AM
If you look closely at AC's Morys you'll see that he has cut a hole in the treble grill to take the clip.  You might not want to do that!
Title: Re: CLIP-ON MIKE recommendations requested
Post by: Mike Carney on October 24, 2016, 11:41:59 AM
Probably not as good quality mics as you are  looking for but I couldn't find a good clip system so adapted one for the T bone  CC75 from Thomann. I used an old guitar tuner and used the clip part to attach with Sugru to the microphone gooseneck...for the treble side.  It clips on neatly over the top of the fingerboard and is easily positioned. The bass side I just use the clip mic as it is, fitted to the handstrap.  Both mics go onto a magic box before going out to the desk, which gives me the option of using in ear headphone(s) to hear myself.
M
Title: Re: CLIP-ON MIKE recommendations requested
Post by: Steve_freereeder on October 24, 2016, 01:50:02 PM
I'd be grateful for recommendations for a good quality clip-on mike for melodeon. Have you used one successfully.

I'd planned on using the AKG 516, but it needs to have a base-plate permanently fitted to each box, with screws or sticky stuff.  So that 6 base-plates for three boxes; and I'm not keen on defacing the boxes.  I have seen from Andy Cutting's example how easy it is to transfer a clip mike between boxes.

(Putting this as a new thread as more specific than the general "Interface"  discussion.)

I've used the previous version - AKG 416 - very successfully in the past. I was also loath to 'deface' the wood casework of my instrument by drilling holes for screws or bolts, so I used self-adhesive velcro patches on the top surface of the box, paired with the equivalent velcro patch on the underside of the mic mounting base plate. The adhesive on the velcro patches was sufficiently strong to hold the mics in place, but if need be the patches could be carefully peeled off; any sticky residue residue could be removed by rubbing with a damp soft cloth
Title: Re: CLIP-ON MIKE recommendations requested
Post by: Jack Humphreys on October 24, 2016, 02:23:55 PM
Thanks Steve and Mike.
Taking account of your advice I've ordered the JTS version of the 516, as recommended by Bernard Loffet. Apparently it comes with two bases,  so that helps.  I'll use your method Steve. Thanks.
Title: Re: CLIP-ON MIKE recommendations requested
Post by: IanD on October 25, 2016, 10:54:20 AM
Thanks Steve and Mike.
Taking account of your advice I've ordered the JTS version of the 516, as recommended by Bernard Loffet. Apparently it comes with two bases,  so that helps.  I'll use your method Steve. Thanks.

I had some of the JTS mics, they developed noise problems and weren't easily repairable. Would suggest going for a reputable manufacturer like AKG, Sennheiser, Beyerdynamic, Shure even though the cost is higher.
Title: Re: CLIP-ON MIKE recommendations requested
Post by: Jack Humphreys on October 25, 2016, 03:42:19 PM
Thanks for your advice Ian. Looks like there are going to be some Returns being sent!
Title: Re: CLIP-ON MIKE recommendations requested
Post by: pikey on October 25, 2016, 09:42:14 PM
Do you want a clip on Mike Rowbotham, or a clip on Mike Gott ?

 >:E
Title: Re: CLIP-ON MIKE recommendations requested
Post by: IanD on October 26, 2016, 10:29:31 PM
Thanks for your advice Ian. Looks like there are going to be some Returns being sent!

Try and find one that has a cable that can be replaced, this is often what goes wrong. If you want what is almost certainly the best clip-on solution and are feeling *very* flush you could treat yourself...

http://www.proaudiosystems.co.uk/dpa-d-vote-4099a-stand-mount-clip-microphone.html -- cheaper than Thomann :-)
Title: Re: CLIP-ON MIKE recommendations requested
Post by: Guy on October 26, 2016, 11:28:13 PM
Thanks Steve and Mike.
Taking account of your advice I've ordered the JTS version of the 516, as recommended by Bernard Loffet. Apparently it comes with two bases,  so that helps.  I'll use your method Steve. Thanks.

I had some of the JTS mics, they developed noise problems and weren't easily repairable.

I've been using the JTS mics for about the last 7 years for regular gigging. I've had them for both the treble and bass end, with both a wireless system and a belt attached box. They have been very good for producing a clear sound faithfully reproducing the tone of whichever instrument they were attached to; easy to move between sets if you're changing instrument. The fittings stick on well and come off easily without marking the instrument even if you leave them on for years. I've had no sound problems apart from occasional feedback in very "acoustically challenged" village halls.

However, I can say that Ian's comment about the cables is absolutely right-I'm a bit hard on them as I can get a bit careless; fortunately our sound engineer is very patient and fixes them when I stand on them! They should be fine if you look after them a bit better than I do...

Hope this helps....

Cheers,
Guy
Title: Re: CLIP-ON MIKE recommendations requested
Post by: Jack Humphreys on October 27, 2016, 09:11:18 AM
Thanks Guy and Ian. I've now ordered both makes and have to decide which to return. So that's Guy and Bernard Loffet saying the JTS is good reliable and cheap. And it comes with two bases. So maybe go with that. Loffet also recommends to use a tie-clip mike for the basses, and includes this in his sonorisation kit., so cheaper still. As I only rarely play in public makes sense to be modest in investment.   Maybe time now to let this thread drop.
Title: Re: CLIP-ON MIKE recommendations requested
Post by: Grape Ape on October 27, 2016, 11:15:24 PM
Maybe not. I have been watching this thread with interest.  I am interested in something as completely wireless as possible.  I would really like to hear what (and why) you decide.

While on the subject, this looks like a nice way to clip a mic to a box, and it's also a great video of great playing.  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nAHWST_Ldu4

Anyone have any idea what it is and where to get one? I have noticed many players using them including Pignol and Milleret.
Title: Re: CLIP-ON MIKE recommendations requested
Post by: Theo on October 27, 2016, 11:23:02 PM
You mean the box shaped fitting for a mic to clip onto?  Both on Gaillard boxes,   perhaps made by Gaillard?
Title: Re: CLIP-ON MIKE recommendations requested
Post by: Jack Humphreys on October 28, 2016, 02:47:45 PM
More hassles. If any other novice is thinking of miking up and is therefore following this tedious thread.... Here's another snag for you to avoid.

 There are at least two different sizes of audio connectors: XLR and mini-XLR.  My JTS 516 gooseneck mike has just arrived......with a big XLR output, whereas the belt/battery boxes for both JTS and AKG  have little mini-XLR sockets.  So presumably I will have to use the AKG 516 after all. >:(    Can't be bothered with adaptors.

Another issue which I don't know about:  The AKG battery box output (B23L)  is for a miniature jack-plug, as for earphones.  Helpful to listen through.  But the JTS equivalent  has a big XLR  audio output socket.

I suppose it would be helpful to have a light cable from the little jack plug, which will then presumably have to feed in to a bigger noiseless cable via an adapter, and then to the mixing desk.    Is that right? (.... I don't blame you if you've stopped reading)

( :Ph More packages to return to the post office.)
Title: Re: CLIP-ON MIKE recommendations requested
Post by: howard mitchell on October 28, 2016, 03:20:18 PM
The JTS 516W is the wireless version of the 516 and has a 4-pin mini XLR meant for their wireless transmitters and battery packs.
The 516, which you have, has a phantom power adapter built into the XLR plug.

AKG use a 3-pin mini-XLR.
Thomann do an equivalent to the older AKG B29L which has 2 3-pin mini XLR inputs and a single XLR out -

https://www.thomann.de/gb/the_t_bone_l_pack.htm (https://www.thomann.de/gb/the_t_bone_l_pack.htm)

Or the Audix APS911 https://www.thomann.de/gb/audix_aps_911.htm (https://www.thomann.de/gb/audix_aps_911.htm) or Superlux PS418D https://www.thomann.de/gb/superlux_ps_418_d.htm (https://www.thomann.de/gb/superlux_ps_418_d.htm) have just 1 3-pin mini XLR in but work off either battery or phantom.


Mitch

Title: Re: CLIP-ON MIKE recommendations requested
Post by: Julian S on November 18, 2016, 12:07:18 PM
Interesting and helpful thread. I'm ordering an AKG 516 for treble (velcro fixings could be a good option) and reckon a cheap tie clip mike for bass will be fine. Any recommendations and also any issues connecting tie clip into AKG battery box for easy on belt mixing ? I note comments that two separate channels are often better than one, but reckon less leads to tangle could be a good idea...
Title: Re: CLIP-ON MIKE recommendations requested
Post by: Jack Humphreys on November 18, 2016, 03:15:38 PM
Delighted that this  topic I started turned out to be useful to someone else.  If you look at the Bernard Loffet links I posted, he shows how to use a tie-pin style condenser mike for the basses, plugged into the battery box.  He offers a kit for this. I've also got the AKG stick-on mike for the RHS. I found that spare base plates and sticky patches can be ordered from Thomann's (at ridiculous price including £10 minimum carriage), enabling easy transfer between boxes.

( I'd recommend Bernard's thought-out kit over my saga of ordering and returning incompatible components trying to save a few Euros.)
Title: Re: CLIP-ON MIKE recommendations requested
Post by: dave t on July 18, 2017, 10:48:46 AM
Jack (or anyone else who wants to chime in), I'd be interested to know if you are still happy with the choice of AKG mics and if you opted for the mixer pack that Mitch suggested. I'm now in the exact position that you were in 9 months ago and would be keen to learn further from your experiences.

And does anyone have any experience with the t.bone Ovid System mics?

https://www.thomann.de/gb/the_tbone_ovid_system_cc_100.htm?ref=search_rslt_t.bone_270447_1

Cheers, Dave
Title: Re: CLIP-ON MIKE recommendations requested
Post by: Jack Humphreys on July 18, 2017, 01:18:56 PM
Hi Dave
I did get  AKG accordion mikes for both treble and bass, plus the little mixer box that can clip on your belt.
I've only used it once for playing for dance. It worked, sounding loud and boomy, but I had no help in getting the adjustment right.
The output is 3.5mm stereo jack, and I used an adapter to a mono XLR (or whatever the initals are) which is frowned on, but worked.
For fixing to the box, I didn't fancy spoiling the finish with screws or glue, and the tiny AKG  mounting block would be too unstable with velcro or mastic.
So I superglued the block to a small square of something like ply, then put stick-on velcro on the the square and on my boxes.  This gives enough stability and enable quick transfer between boxes.
(The Loffet kit has bigger mounting blocks.. would make life easier.)
However, I have noticed that most professionals use a clip on mike that clips above the middle of the keyboard, rather than at the top end like mine. 
Hope this helps.
Title: Re: CLIP-ON MIKE recommendations requested
Post by: Steve_freereeder on July 18, 2017, 02:09:22 PM
...For fixing to the box, I didn't fancy spoiling the finish with screws or glue, and the tiny AKG  mounting block would be too unstable with velcro or mastic.
I used the clip-on AKG 416 mikes for a good few years and I found that the AKG mounting blocks were surprisingly secure with a patch of velcro on the base of the block, matching with a self-adhesive velcro patch on the top of the melodeon. When I sold the box on to someone else, the self-adhesive velcro patches came away without too much difficulty and did not leave a mark on the instrument (Castagnari-style natural wood with a lacquer finish).
Title: Re: CLIP-ON MIKE recommendations requested
Post by: Stiamh on July 18, 2017, 08:57:46 PM
I used the clip-on AKG 416 mikes for a good few years and I found that the AKG mounting blocks were surprisingly secure with a patch of velcro on the base of the block, matching with a self-adhesive velcro patch on the top of the melodeon.

This has worked for me too (on my 516) but what works better is a blob of the white sticky tack ("elastic putty" at the bottom of p.2 in the attached parts list, sold by the metre).
Title: Re: CLIP-ON MIKE recommendations requested
Post by: dave t on July 18, 2017, 11:11:28 PM
Thanks Jack (and the other contributors). It looks like AKG is the way to go but I think I'll probably get the t.bone pack that Mitch suggested.

https://www.thomann.de/gb/the_t_bone_l_pack.htm

as it has an XLR output rather than mini jack.

Dave
Title: Re: CLIP-ON MIKE recommendations requested
Post by: dave t on August 13, 2017, 06:29:01 PM
So i bought the AKG C516 MLs with the t-bone l-pack which sounds great and I'm very happy with the setup.

I used the supplied putty to stick the fixing onto the box and played with it for the the first time at a ceilidh last night. However, the putty just gave up and the mics slowly drooped out of position. I had previously tried the double-sided sticky rubber pads and it was no better. I'm loath to screw in the fitting even though that would be the ultimate solution. There are suggestions futher down this thread that velcro is the way to go but I'm not convinced that it would hold everything in position firmly enough.

Has anyone used the AKG putty successfully?
Any other suggestions for fixing the mics into position?

Thanks, Dave
Title: Re: CLIP-ON MIKE recommendations requested
Post by: Andy Next Tune on August 13, 2017, 07:02:58 PM
I saw someone use the press stud, used for securing the bellows strap at the front top of the box, as an anchor for a mic.
And someone else (Saul Rose?) clipped his mic to the secured bellows strap.
Worst case, you could 're-purpose' that hole which is already drilled in your box. Always assuming one is fitted.
Title: Re: CLIP-ON MIKE recommendations requested
Post by: Steve_freereeder on August 13, 2017, 07:07:15 PM
... There are suggestions futher down this thread that velcro is the way to go but I'm not convinced that it would hold everything in position firmly enough.

All I can say is to reiterate that self-adhesive velcro patches worked fine for me for several years, until I started using stand mics, in fact.
http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,19518.msg250620.html#msg250620
Title: Re: CLIP-ON MIKE recommendations requested
Post by: Stiamh on August 13, 2017, 08:14:48 PM
Has anyone used the AKG putty successfully?

Yes - see above.

This [i.e. Velcro] has worked for me too (on my 516) but what works better is a blob of the white sticky tack ("elastic putty" at the bottom of p.2 in the attached parts list, sold by the metre).

BTW in both cases (Velcro and putty) I put the mounting block on the top of the treble cabinet, i.e. lying flat. And with the putty I use a pretty big dollop that I can firmly squish the block into.
Title: Re: CLIP-ON MIKE recommendations requested
Post by: dave t on August 13, 2017, 11:48:23 PM
Has anyone used the AKG putty successfully?

Yes - see above.

This [i.e. Velcro] has worked for me too (on my 516) but what works better is a blob of the white sticky tack ("elastic putty" at the bottom of p.2 in the attached parts list, sold by the metre).

BTW in both cases (Velcro and putty) I put the mounting block on the top of the treble cabinet, i.e. lying flat. And with the putty I use a pretty big dollop that I can firmly squish the block into.


I'm mounting on the side of the cabinet at the knee end to keep everything out of the way. Maybe that's the issue.
Title: Re: CLIP-ON MIKE recommendations requested
Post by: syale on August 14, 2017, 07:41:19 PM
I glued a hard disk drive magnet to the inside of my box. With another magnet (got to get you N and S right!) I glued a piece of leather to the box side of the magnet and the microphone arm to the other side of the magnet and plopped it onto the outside of the box. It holds very well. To reiterate I have a magnet on the inside and outside with the box case in between them. I suppose neodymium or rare earth magnets would do as well but I had some old broken drives hanging around begging me to use them!

Stephen
Title: Re: CLIP-ON MIKE recommendations requested
Post by: playandteach on August 14, 2017, 08:21:33 PM
Do you ever repair computers with left over bits of melodeon?
Title: Re: CLIP-ON MIKE recommendations requested
Post by: syale on August 15, 2017, 02:03:19 PM
Do you ever repair computers with left over bits of melodeon?
I am thinking about replacing the ESC key on my keyboard with a melodeon button. It reminds me I need to escape to doing something more productive!  :||:
Title: Re: CLIP-ON MIKE recommendations requested
Post by: rileycat on August 17, 2017, 06:23:05 PM
Jack, your super-glue fix to give a greater base area for velcro sounds like the fix I need to stop a bit of boomy 'waggle' from my treble-end AKG - thanks for this idea.  I used to use an AKG on the bass end, too, but the movement inherent on playing the instrument exaggerated the waggle problem, so I got a simple tie-clip mike, re-soldered the mini plug onto it and plonked it on my bass end with blu-tack.  Crude, I know, but it works with the independent vol controls on the AKG box (which I also velcro to the back of the treble end for ease of volume access).
Cheers all. Tony
Title: Re: CLIP-ON MIKE recommendations requested
Post by: dave t on August 21, 2017, 02:33:48 PM
Thanks for pointing that out Rileycat, I missed the extra detail. I'll try it out at the weekend and see how I get on. I'm still sceptical that the Velcro will hold well enough as I want to have the mics mounted on the front of the box (as you hold it) towards the knee end and curling round to the grill, rather than on top.
Title: Re: CLIP-ON MIKE recommendations requested
Post by: Julian S on August 21, 2017, 03:06:39 PM
I have used a 'heavy duty' velcro patch for an AKG microphone on top of my Pastourelle 2 - but did put a strip of gaffer tape on as well to secure it further. No problems on first use even though I was moving round quite a lot on stage !
I did consider using a mounting on the front edge of the box, but felt that velcro wouldn't be sufficient, and I didn't want to drill holes in the box.

Currently I'm using a cheap clip on on the bass end, again secured with velcro after I found that attaching to bass strap resulted in too much random noise.

I hadn't thought of attaching the belt pack to the back of the box. Interesting - but knowing me I'd probably bash it. At least on the belt it's out of the way - though not so easy to change settings.

J
Title: Re: CLIP-ON MIKE recommendations requested
Post by: dave t on August 30, 2017, 11:00:07 AM
I glued a hard disk drive magnet to the inside of my box. With another magnet (got to get you N and S right!) I glued a piece of leather to the box side of the magnet and the microphone arm to the other side of the magnet and plopped it onto the outside of the box. It holds very well. To reiterate I have a magnet on the inside and outside with the box case in between them. I suppose neodymium or rare earth magnets would do as well but I had some old broken drives hanging around begging me to use them!

Stephen

Hi Stephen,

I had a play around with neodymium magnets over the weekend with little success. The magnets were not strong enough but the stated pull was 2.1 kg which I thought would do the job even taking into consideration the fact that the magnets are separated by the box casing.

Where on your box have you have placed the magnet? I also wasn't able to find a suitable mounting point inside the casing to get the mic on the front of the box.

Thanks, Dave
Title: Re: CLIP-ON MIKE recommendations requested
Post by: MandoC on September 15, 2017, 12:59:50 AM
Here in the US, there is a relatively new company called Myers Acoustic which is making clip on mics.  I just ordered one for my mandolin, but I see a number of accordion players are endorsing them on their website.  I do not yet own one so I cannot comment on how they sound.  I will comment on the device after I have used it.  My two cents.   Charlie

https://www.myerspickups.com/
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