Melodeon.net Forums

Discussions => News and Events => Topic started by: Hasse on December 07, 2016, 07:18:03 PM

Title: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: Hasse on December 07, 2016, 07:18:03 PM
Got a mail from The Music Room at Cleckheaton saying they are closing down.

Yet another musical instrument shop throwing in the towel...



Edit: added Cleckheaton to clarify
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: Winston Smith on December 07, 2016, 10:29:31 PM
It's sad, but this is the real world. If retailing circumstances didn't change it would run contrary to everything that has gone before! This example of slow social change is the breeding ground for a great deal of our folk music, worldwide. Many of us wouldn't have a song to sing without it.
Is someone going to write a new song and a tune to commemorate this loss? 
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: hogstonp on December 08, 2016, 04:15:13 PM
But which Music Room? There are lots of places so called.
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: george garside on December 08, 2016, 04:28:15 PM
hope its not the music room at Cleckheaton  . This could do with clarifying as if it is not  the one at Cleckheaton that many of us have known and dealt with for years  the 'rumour' could damage their trade

george


Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: Lester on December 08, 2016, 04:39:49 PM
It is the Cleckheaton Music Room

Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: Andy Next Tune on December 08, 2016, 04:41:01 PM
It is the Cleckheaton Music Room, purveyor of melodeons and other instruments.

See also the recent threads about new Oakwoods which are relevant.
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: Jack Campin on December 08, 2016, 04:52:37 PM
I had only a few interactions with them over the years, but all so hostile I'd never have considered doing business with them.

I'm not surprised they have accumulated so much ill will.
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: Caroline on December 08, 2016, 05:27:34 PM
Always had great service, friendly and helpful.  Very sorry they will no longer be a prescence  at festivals etc too, it was good to have a variety of instruments to explore.  I'll miss them.
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: sticky fingers on December 08, 2016, 06:32:07 PM
Guess that's everybody's warranty up the swany!, hope nobody has spent a big wedge with them!, it's still a shame, I first went to the shop when I lived in Manchester back in 1989 when Mally was running it, I quite liked their little in house box, sandpiper I think it was called!, gave one of the flatties (sorry, I meant flat keyboard models) a thrashing at Sidmouth and thought, I could definatly gig with this!, sf.
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: Steve_freereeder on December 08, 2016, 07:12:08 PM
I had only a few interactions with them over the years, but all so hostile I'd never have considered doing business with them.

I'm not surprised they have accumulated so much ill will.

That has never, ever, been my experience with the Music Room. Without exception they have always been helpful and friendly people, giving a great service.
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: malcolmbebb on December 08, 2016, 07:23:58 PM
I had only a few interactions with them over the years, but all so hostile I'd never have considered doing business with them.

I'm not surprised they have accumulated so much ill will.

That has never, ever, been my experience with the Music Room. Without exception they have always been helpful and friendly people, giving a great service.
I have heard such remarks of a similarly named Music Room, but on further enquiry not the same one.
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: Anahata on December 08, 2016, 08:02:09 PM
There was a branch of the same Cleckheaton-based business in Oxford but that seems to be long gone.
themusicroom.com (http://www.musicroom.com/storelocator.aspx) has shops everywhere but is unrelated.
And http://www.themusicroom.co.uk isn't even a music shop...
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: Thrupenny Bit on December 08, 2016, 08:03:56 PM
It is down to them, and a certain Mr Loomes of this parish that is the reason I'm here and gave a Tommy sat in the other room.
I have always found them friendly and helpful, and always ready to let me sit down and sample their boxes at festivals. In fact always encouraged me to sit and play.
There will be a huge hole in the music tent at Sidmouth this coming year......
Q
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: Hasse on December 08, 2016, 09:23:09 PM
I have also only had good experiences with them.

Especially back in the days before ordering in webshops. I remember first time I called them it was after advice from people in Denmark, and what a friendly and helpful staff giving good advice to a eager teenager calling. I don't really think they made much money on me in those days, not enough that can repay the service they provided anyway. I remember once they even send me some plectrums and a pair of melodeon straps!, only because they couldn't sell me a nice second hand octave mandolin that wasn't traded in as agreed.

But i guess with web shops growing importance and the different kind of costumer contact, like mail and Facebook, it takes more time or rather a different kind of time to provide the same kind of service as before, and if profit isn’t high enough I guess it might just get even harder to recalibrate and make time for a smooth customer service. Well, I really don't know I just ...
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: rees on December 08, 2016, 11:42:24 PM
They were (and still are) good friends of mine. They leave a large hole in the festival music traders scene and will be sorely missed.
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: squeezy on December 09, 2016, 12:21:39 AM
I was an employee of the company in question for about 5 years.  I ran the Oxford shop with Bill McKinnon.  I don't recognise the descrition of a comapny hostile to customers or unpleasant in any way.  We tried our absolute hardest to sell instruments to people who entered our shop or contacted us, of course we did, we were salesmen!  But we never looked down our nose towards anyone who came in our shop ... it was the perfect extension of the folk world in a shop form.

Even back in the early 2000's I was warned that owning a music shop was a precarious livelihood given the competition from online sales.  And we all knew that this technological advance would ultimately be a bad thing for people buying instruments ... imagine buying a box without ever having the chance to play it?  In our world a place where you can try instruments out side by side is invaluable, and that's what we always tried to do.  People might save a few pounds here and there, but that means nothing if you have to turn around and sell the instrument because it's not what you were hoping for.

I'm personally gutted that the company and HQ Cleckheaton shop is likely to cease trading.  We added a whole range of extra box brands to the scene that otherwise would have been competely dominated by Hobgoblin. Having 2 companies in friendly competition was great for you, the consumer, in true capitalist stylee.

Let's not forget that this turn of events leaves quite a lot of people without a job.

RIP The Music Room
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: robotmay on December 09, 2016, 12:53:26 AM
Though I don't know the particulars behind it, I do feel like their departure from Oxford was a mistake, although I'm sure the rent was awfully expensive (as my company have found out whilst looking for studio space). There isn't really an alternative between Birmingham and London (unless I'm forgetting anywhere), despite the area being heavy in folk and morris groups. The Cleckheaton shop was always a bit awkward to get to. I never bothered to travel up to it myself, and only ran into them at festivals, where they were always helpful.

From the instrument-side this is not a great turn of events; we're likely to lose Beltuna instruments in the UK (unless someone else takes up importing them), and I would assume that the Sandpiper models are gone, unless the rights to the name/production rest solely with Martyn Banks.

I do remember going into the Oxford branch a couple of times as a teenager, however, which very likely coincided with squeezy working there >:E
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: smiley on December 09, 2016, 03:44:34 AM

The Cleckheaton shop was always a bit awkward to get to.


This gormless foreigner will never forget losing his way in Bradford traffic while trying to reach Cleckheaton one afternoon!
At the shop Jon Loomes was very welcoming and ensured the visit was worthwhile. I bought a Sandpiper and they arranged for a fettler (Martin Whyte?) to quickly change it from 3rd to 4th button start before I flew out. I did have problems getting the VAT refunded but again Jon Loomes came to the rescue.
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: Hasse on December 09, 2016, 06:40:36 AM
I of course made this thread because I think its a shame they are closing down  :(

I've heard people complaining about service, but I think people expect too much from mail and facebook contacts.

Last time I was in Oxford was 99 and 2000, going to a conferens and of course going to the temple of folk instruments. I bought a nice Lachenal concertina  (:)

Last week I bought finally bought a octave mandolin from the music room after 26 years or so, kind of closing a circle, so yes I'm being nostalgic!
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: Thrupenny Bit on December 09, 2016, 08:02:06 AM
Squeezy's comment hit's it on the head - being able to try things side by side is invaluable.
It worked for me!
I often have felt it a shame our friends from overseas on here are unable to have such a choice of instruments and appreciate the MR's  service provided in this respect.
I only ever bumped into them at festivals, and know from experience, their close of day cocktail parties are legendary!
I've made friends with them over the years and I wish them all well for the future.
hey ho......
Q
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: James Fitton on December 09, 2016, 09:05:34 AM

Another sad voice here. My very first melodeon was bought from the music room in Cleckheaton - the old smaller shop, where the melodeons were in an Aladdin's Cave upstairs. I think I must have tried every one in the shop before settling on a Dino Baffetti Black Pearl, which is still going strong over 20 years on. I bought my Oakwood model II from Squeezy in the Oxford shop - I tried it without, then, having heard of their reputation, but fell in love with it there and then, and bought it, without really being able to afford it. I've never regretted it, and I'd never have bought it without having happened to try it. And I've since bought countless musical odds and ends when passing Cleckheaton, often things I didn't know existed. That's the joy of a real shop, just like a real bookshop, or a real anything shop.


But if such places are to survive, it's essentially in all of our hands, pretty much literally. If we want our high streets to have thriving independent shops, we have to go into them, and give them money for stuff. If we went specialist independent shops, we have to be willing to travel to them, even if all that is less convenient than clicking online. So, if  I'm to put my money where my mouth is, where else is there? Who are the other physical shop-retaining melodeon sellers, and how do we sustain them?
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: rees on December 09, 2016, 09:34:07 AM
Have no fear, the cocktail parties will continue  :|glug :|glug :|glug
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: Theo on December 09, 2016, 09:52:39 AM

But if such places are to survive, it's essentially in all of our hands, pretty much literally. If we want our high streets to have thriving independent shops, we have to go into them, and give them money for stuff. If we went specialist independent shops, we have to be willing to travel to them, even if all that is less convenient than clicking online. So, if  I'm to put my money where my mouth is, where else is there? Who are the other physical shop-retaining melodeon sellers, and how do we sustain them?

Hobgoblin still have a network of high street shops, and there are individuals who work from home but usually have a small stock of instruments available to try.

The main thing I remember about going to the Cleckie shop, or before that the place in Leeds was being supplied with tea or coffee and time to try out as many instruments as I wanted to.
Very sorry to see them go.
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: playandteach on December 09, 2016, 09:59:44 AM
I've not bought an instrument from them, but I have spent an entire day there when first considering the change to melodeon from piano accordion.
There wasn't a hint of pressure, and although I did buy in the future elsewhere, it wasn't a 'try it out in the shop, buy it online' cynical move, but just a desire to support a maker (Serafini in this case) directly - and it wasn't an option from the Music Room.
I do feel it's a loss. I did try several times to contact them in the last few months with regard to buying an instrument, but didn't get any replies - I suspect the damage was done by then.
I have to say, I've had the same positive experience at a Hobgoblin shop in London. But then again all I bought were whistles (not cheap ones).
I wish the staff rapid re-employment.
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: Caroline on December 09, 2016, 11:32:41 AM
Have no fear, the cocktail parties will continue  :|glug :|glug :|glug
Phew thats a relief  (:) (:) (:)
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: Bill Young on December 09, 2016, 12:32:47 PM
I enjoyed my infrequent visits to the Oxford shop some years ago, and meeting Squeezy. Also had a good reception on my only visit to Cleckheaton. Unfortunately, this seems to be the changing face of retail. Music shops in Scotland have fallen like skittles in the last few years.
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: ACE on December 09, 2016, 01:34:39 PM
Living on an island I find getting to a place to try an instrument a bit of a mission. But  while I was having a trip up to the frozen wastelands of the north I dropped in to their shop, very impressed and was also made very welcome. I purchased a box after a couple of hours trying and drinking tea. When I wanted another a few years later, I did not hesitate to order on the phone sight unseen and unplayed knowing that I could return the instrument if it did not suit me. (it did). I shall miss them but at the same time we do have some very good traders on this site that will fill the gap.
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: Theo on December 09, 2016, 01:43:24 PM
[[ADMIN]]

I've removed two posts that speculated on the personal reasons behind the closure.   Please continue to discuss the closure, but no more personal stuff about the people behind the decision.  It's not our business.

Thank you,

Theo
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: Dazbo on December 09, 2016, 01:55:45 PM
The Music Room in Cleckheaton was where I bought my first melodeon (and others since) as well as gig bags, whistles, CDs, Videos and DVDs.  At one point in the mid 2000s I think I was going every month or so on bored saturday afternoons, playing boxes and being supplied with tea (i'd forgotten that till it was mentioned above).  Never any customer dissatisfaction from me.

It's also where one of the salesmen persuaded me to buy the first Spiers and Boden CD as it "that one there works in our Oxford shop" and they played English music (a very rare find in those days I can tell you).

Haven't been to the shop for a couple of years now but always loved their stalls at folk festivals and preferred them to Hobgoblin
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: Julian S on December 09, 2016, 02:56:13 PM
R.I.P. Music Room. Four misc. instruments here, plus bags, books etc etc courtesy of them. A favourite stop off for us on way to see friends and rellies ooop north, cuppa tea and lots of instruments to try, covet, and buy.
Yet more bad news this year. Now will it be a lament or the Cleckie Clackie Polka to compose in fond memory...

J
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: Sue on December 09, 2016, 05:56:48 PM
It was the Oxford branch that I knew best.  Bill McKinnon was the one who talked me into trying the melodeon.  I couldn't really play at that stage so besides the cups of tea, and letting me try all the melodeons, he went round the shop playing the same tune on each melodeon so that I could hear what they sounded like.  I bought my first box there, a secondhand Lilly, at the time it seemed an enormous expense, and a big step into the unknown!
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: gettabettabox on December 09, 2016, 06:46:28 PM
I remember the two hour drive up to cleckheaton, did it quite a few times.
It's the "quest" you understand?!
Recall being interested in an original black double ray and cheekily asked if I could open it up!
They kindly allowed this, I saw an unmolested bank of shiny "H" reeds...and bought the box.
Great crowd.
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: smiley on December 09, 2016, 10:02:23 PM
And what about those 'Music Room' bags? Buying their backpack during my one & only visit to the Cleckie shop turned out to be a great investment. Amongst the milling throng at the Aussie National Folk Festival I've found the logo often gets recognised by other players interested in English music and we immediately have a conversation-starter. I guess they'll become a collector's item now.
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: JM on December 09, 2016, 10:56:43 PM
Being 15hrs by car from the nearest melodeon/accordion dealer, I've never been to an actual store.  Just thankful that the Button Box is my virtual neighborhood store, and their impeccable service.  Sad to hear that a store that has meant so much to so many of you had to end its run. 

While I have never had the chance to play-before-I-bought an instrument, I am very thankful to this group for continually showcasing the variety of instruments being produced.  This helped my decisions be much more informed.

JM
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: Thrupenny Bit on December 10, 2016, 09:04:09 AM
JM - you remind me how lucky we are here in the UK with our access to instruments in a 'hands on' situation.
I've never been to the main shop but always caught up with them at festivals.
I think the reason we here are all so sad is that they -possibly - had the largest selection in one place, and a very big presence at festivals, hence a lot of us have bought goods from them.
That presence will be missed.
Q
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: Schnorbitz on December 11, 2016, 07:17:24 PM
Like many of the comment above, the Music Room at festivals was how I first got into the melodeon. I always found them patient and great to deal with. My first box was purchased (slightly drunkenly) at Towersey from them. I never went to the shop - it is too far - but always enjoyed bumping into them at festivals. Sad news indeed.
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: Rog on December 15, 2016, 09:56:50 AM
I bought my Dino and a lovely Hohner from them. Not sure now where one would get hands on a new Dino....
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: Joan Kureczka on December 16, 2016, 06:10:31 PM
Like several others here, they were definitely how I got hooked. I'd been thinking about playing music again and wanted a portable instrument that didn't require a lot of fussing re tuning, etc. They started me off with my Excelsior Mini and then really hooked me a year later with the Oakwood Baffetti Super. Which is now possibly among the most traveled of melodeons, having gone from San Francisco to the UK and back with me a number of times. Missed them at Towersey last summer....
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: pipives on December 16, 2016, 09:54:12 PM
They were (and still are) good friends of mine. They leave a large hole in the festival music traders scene and will be sorely missed.

Indeed they will. Although I'm employed within a similar line of trade I completely agree with you Rees
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: Jonathan Arnett on January 25, 2017, 07:48:22 PM
They were (and still are) good friends of mine. They leave a large hole in the festival music traders scene and will be sorely missed.

Indeed they will. Although I'm employed within a similar line of trade I completely agree with you Rees
Sad too. I didn't know they were in trouble. Went to the shop in September and resolved to go back when I had sold my Piano. This tool longer than I would have liked. Finally I was ready to buy something though still unsure what. The Sandpiper was high on the list. Nobody answering the phone and no website. I missed the boat. The two guys there were helpful and friendly and I had a good time that afternoon. Gutted.
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: ocajun on January 25, 2017, 10:50:56 PM
The mandolin was my first Music Room instrument. It is still a fine thing twenty odd years later. They sold me my first box too, although I no longer have that. I can only recall one tea and melodeon afternoon. I was not really sure what I wanted at the time and probably could not have afforded it if I was but that, of course, was not a problem for these guys. Since I've been at a "relatively safe" distance I know I have mail ordered various bits and pieces and often wished I could drop by again sometime but somehow feel that I could have supported them a bit more. Does that make any sense? They sent out a few emails and I must confess to having been tempted by some of the clearance offers, including one of their iconic box bags (wee bit on the big side for the Club III but not outrageously so). I forwarded the bouzouki offers to a friend who was after one. I hope that was helping and not taking advantage.
I am sorry to see them go and will always be grateful for the instruments and things, the tea and the advice and friendliness. I wish everybody concerned all the very best.
Rod
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: AirTime on January 28, 2017, 05:49:47 PM
So what will happen to Sandpiper? Presumably there is a factory/workshop in China that has been set up to produce these. What happens to  the "infrastructure" created to produce Sandpipers? It would be a shame for this to be lost. Anybody else willing to step up & distribute Sandpiper?
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: Helena Handcart on January 28, 2017, 06:09:05 PM
So what will happen to Sandpiper? Presumably there is a factory/workshop in China that has been set up to produce these. What happens to  the "infrastructure" created to produce Sandpipers? It would be a shame for this to be lost. Anybody else willing to step up & distribute Sandpiper?

I might be wrong but at Witney I got the impression that Martyn Banks was going to continue to distribute these alongside making the brand new Oakwood melodeons. 
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: Steve_freereeder on January 28, 2017, 10:14:32 PM
So what will happen to Sandpiper? Presumably there is a factory/workshop in China that has been set up to produce these. What happens to  the "infrastructure" created to produce Sandpipers? It would be a shame for this to be lost. Anybody else willing to step up & distribute Sandpiper?

I might be wrong but at Witney I got the impression that Martyn Banks was going to continue to distribute these alongside making the brand new Oakwood melodeons.
That was my understanding too, Helena.
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: Lester on January 29, 2017, 01:01:09 AM
I would not be at all surprised if these came off the same conveyer belt as the Sandpiper

https://www.hobgoblin.com/local/sales/products/GR42054/sherwood-shire-ii-dg-melodeon-cagnoni-reeds/
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: AirTime on January 29, 2017, 02:52:44 AM
Quote
I would not be at all surprised if these came off the same conveyer belt as the Sandpiper

I wondered that too. Made in the same factory? Made to the same specifications? Same quality control?  I am very impressed with my Sandpiper - great quality for the price IMO. As I understand, it Hohner is discontinuing the Morgane line, which would seem to leave leave a significant space for a inexpensive Chinese-manufactured natural wood styled melodeon.
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: Andrius on February 13, 2018, 06:41:09 AM
compare:
https://www.hobgoblin.com/local/sales/products/GR42054/sherwood-shire-ii-dg-melodeon-cagnoni-reeds/
and:
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/High-Grade-23K8B-Diatonic-Wood-Button_60601893512.html?spm=a2700.7724857.2017115.218.6b8c60773MwQXN

Scarlatti?
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/31button-12bass-diatonic-button-accordion_857708789.html?spm=a2700.7724857.2017115.211.6b8c60773MwQXN
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: byteofthecherry on February 14, 2018, 04:34:24 PM
compare:
https://www.hobgoblin.com/local/sales/products/GR42054/sherwood-shire-ii-dg-melodeon-cagnoni-reeds/
and:
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/High-Grade-23K8B-Diatonic-Wood-Button_60601893512.html?spm=a2700.7724857.2017115.218.6b8c60773MwQXN

Scarlatti?
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/31button-12bass-diatonic-button-accordion_857708789.html?spm=a2700.7724857.2017115.211.6b8c60773MwQXN
Indeed.. 8)
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: Winston Smith on February 14, 2018, 04:49:01 PM
"compare:
https://www.hobgoblin.com/local/sales/products/GR42054/sherwood-shire-ii-dg-melodeon-cagnoni-reeds/
and:
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/High-Grade-23K8B-Diatonic-Wood-Button_60601893512.html?spm=a2700.7724857.2017115.218.6b8c60773MwQXN

Scarlatti?
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/31button-12bass-diatonic-button-accordion_857708789.html?spm=a2700.7724857.2017115.211.6b8c60773MwQXN"

I know that I'm thick; but what are we comparing here? The fact that both these instruments have Cagnoni reeds but wildly different prices?
And the Scarlatti? The Chinese will put anyone's name on their produce as long as you buy a certain number, there are loads of the self-same instruments with differing names on them. 
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: Andrius on February 15, 2018, 08:27:04 AM
First two are identical except different keyboard and most expensive part - label "Sherwood".
It seems they comes from the same factory.
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: Winston Smith on February 15, 2018, 09:46:01 AM
And......different grille. And......one has a treble end stop.
We could say that many older instruments also look identical, except for this or that; I've seen many which seemed to be replicas of Hohners, apart from very slight differences in appearance.

Mind you, I see your point about the prices being vastly different. "Buyer beware" is the old adage that we should all take to heart. But we should also bear in mind that a retailer has to source the instruments, actually pay for a minimum number, import them, stock them safely, advertise them, check them out before sale and give some degree of warranty. And all that whilst hoping that his investment eventually pays off!
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on February 15, 2018, 10:35:55 AM
It's more like the Sherwood III

It would be interesting to know how the mark up breaks down.

The wholesale price works out at about £212.
Then there is delivery to the supplier.
Badging.
They have been described as good value on this site so there may be some pre-sale fettling.
Business running costs and overheads.
Costs incurred as a result of  the franchising nature of the business.
Delivery to the customer, which is (at the moment) free.
Other costs?

Then there is the retailers profit.

Edit Xpost with Mr Jennings
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: John MacKenzie (Cugiok) on February 15, 2018, 10:39:37 AM
Import taxes, and VAT

SJ
Title: Re: The Music Room - Closing down
Post by: malcolmbebb on February 15, 2018, 02:43:19 PM
And, to reiterate, this cost is based on buying ten units. So you need to be sure of selling them all.
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal