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Discussions => Teaching and Learning => Topic started by: Tamba on July 10, 2009, 12:25:29 PM

Title: A useful tip....maybe!
Post by: Tamba on July 10, 2009, 12:25:29 PM
In an attempt to tighten up my bass/chord playing I have discovered something that seems to work for me, so I thought I would pass it on in case it works for anyone else.

In order to check whether I'm keeping good time and to try and be a bit more adventurous with my accompaniment I have been focusing on listening predominantly to the bass end whilst playing. The unexpected bonus from this is that my right hand is working much better, i.e. not nearly so many careless mistakes whilst playing. I have since realised that when playing I usually listen to the right hand and just hear the left hand, this also means that I crouch over the right hand buttons a bit, when I'm trying to listen to what the bass end is doing I also sit up straighter as the bass is easier to hear when I'm positioned with my head a bit more above the instrument.

Obviously, this works best for tunes that I am familiar with, have played a dozen times and have previously made random errors in playing. I suppose this is happening because I'm not concentrating too hard on the melody and just letting my brain get on with what it knows it is meant to be doing. Maybe every body but me does this, but if you don't then give it a try sometime, it takes a little while to tune your ear in to the bass instead of the melody, and I suppose ideally I should be focusing on both ends equally (working on this now), but if it does work for you then let me know.

Go on, give it a try, it's not difficult to master and it might make a difference to your playing.

Good luck!


Title: Re: A useful tip....maybe!
Post by: HallelujahAl on July 10, 2009, 02:51:50 PM
This is interesting. I'm usually the picture of concentration when playing - but when out Morrising last night during the playing of 'Valentine' I was having a little bit of a chat with another of the musicians and I realised afterwards that I'd been playing it almost on 'automatic'. This leads me to believe that not consciously thinking about what I'm doing might actually be a better way to play. Brainless melodeon! Works for me.
AL
Title: Re: A useful tip....maybe!
Post by: Bill Young on July 10, 2009, 03:37:34 PM
This is interesting. I'm usually the picture of concentration when playing - but when out Morrising last night during the playing of 'Valentine' I was having a little bit of a chat with another of the musicians and I realised afterwards that I'd been playing it almost on 'automatic'. This leads me to believe that not consciously thinking about what I'm doing might actually be a better way to play. Brainless melodeon! Works for me.
AL
This seems to be the principle of "The Inner Game of Music" (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Inner-Game-Music-Barry-Green/dp/0330300172), a spin-off from the original "Inner Game of Tennis" (and Golf, and Skiing . . .) - don't let your conscious mind try to control what your sub-conscious knows perfectly well what to do without help, thank you.

Worth a read, IMO, if you haven't already read it.
Title: Re: A useful tip....maybe!
Post by: ladydetemps on July 10, 2009, 03:53:30 PM
don't let your conscious mind try to control what your sub-conscious knows perfectly well what to do without help
And when playing with others, if you have a conscious mind going spare and with nothing better to do, it could always usefully be listening to what the others are playing.
MY conscious  mind is usually too busy trying to: stop me running out the room/falling over/bursting into tears/accidentily insulting someone/dribbling all over my melodeon/drifting off into a day dream/wondering what's for lunch or dinner etc....anyway.
Title: Re: A useful tip....maybe!
Post by: Owen Woods on July 10, 2009, 05:50:40 PM
I've found exactly the same thing.

Whenever I play in a concert (talking Piano here, not box) I would finish the piece and not recall what I played, my brain being turned off completely. I have to ask people how it was, as although I would remember a major slip I would have no idea how musical the playing would be.

With regards melodeon, I discovered the listening to the basses rather than the treble trick when at a Morris practice session earlier this year. I was lacking confidence with my bass work, something to do with the fact that it was a big hall with a toucch of reverb and if I went drastically wrong not only would six dancers misstep but it would sound absolutely dreadful. You're very exposed when playing for Morris I've always found. If you're the only musician anyway. So I'd been neglecting the basses, thinking that the tune was a better bet, which was a big mistake. On this occasion I started playing basses and because I was worried about them, listened to them instead of the tune, and everything went swimmingly.

Part of it is that if you have a very strong bass then mistakes on the treble side are much more forgiveable. But the tip works for me in that I do tend to play better if I listen to the basses rather than the right hand.
Title: Re: A useful tip....maybe!
Post by: Tamba on July 10, 2009, 08:01:47 PM
Thanks Ukebert,

It's good to know that it's not just my imagination and that others have experienced the same thing. As for that 'playing when your mind is completely elsewhere' (like the drive home from work when you can't remember the last 10 minutes), I have experienced this too, it seems that I can read a newspaper whilst playing but it has to be the same tune going round and round. The thing about listening to the bass whilst playing is that I am fully conscious of what I'm doing and in control and that is why it has been such a breakthrough for me. I do realise, however, that there are many instances when this won't work.
Title: Re: A useful tip....maybe!
Post by: sqwzboxstudent on July 10, 2009, 10:29:04 PM
this could be another piece of advice for the left hand,

if you drop the finger that normaly plays a bass note so that it actualy touches the melodeon (and plays nothing) you can set up a drum beat or metronome (or in ur head like me ) to test your chord finger, you just play as normal but as you only playing the chord you can here/feel if you go off beat, do that a few times, then swap over , raise your chord finger so u just tap your box and play the bass note to a drum or metronome, its surprising what a difference it makes!!!

cheers tommy
Title: Re: A useful tip....maybe!
Post by: xgx on July 10, 2009, 10:53:41 PM
....during the playing of 'Valentine' I was having a little bit of a chat with another of the musicians and I realised afterwards that I'd been playing it almost on 'automatic'. ......

Jeez Al ...you can talk and play..... I've always wanted to be able to do that....umptynine years on and I still can't :-[ :'( :|||:
Title: Re: A useful tip....maybe!
Post by: Owen Woods on July 11, 2009, 02:47:34 AM
I can't talk and play at all. It takes usually an entire B section to ready myself to yell "Change".
Title: Re: A useful tip....maybe!
Post by: george garside on July 11, 2009, 10:07:46 AM
funny thing  this talking & playing business  - some can  & some can't- I can't despite many attempts over 50 years or so of playing!  Even  saying 'out' or something similar to bring a band to a halt buggers my playing up completely.  Instead I signal changes or end of dance coming up by a slight increase in volume at the start of the last  4 bars from the end or change. This has the advantage of ensuring that the rest of the band are listening to the leader.  I also find listening to somebody talking to me while I am playing can throw things badly so I usually respond with a dirty look of the piss off veriety!

The bottom line is there is absolutely no need to be able to talk whilst playing so why worry about it!

george ;)
Title: Re: A useful tip....maybe!
Post by: TonyRussellDavis on July 11, 2009, 11:02:55 AM
....during the playing of 'Valentine' I was having a little bit of a chat with another of the musicians and I realised afterwards that I'd been playing it almost on 'automatic'. ......
One time I remember reciting the solilique from Hamlet while playing a tune and got so distracted by the newspaper that I missed a dance step ;)! Tony.
Title: Re: A useful tip....maybe!
Post by: xgx on July 11, 2009, 12:17:31 PM
Heard that it's easier to make an utterance if you 'sing' it in time with the tune.... still trying :D

'Out' ....raise one leg :P
Title: Re: A useful tip....maybe!
Post by: HallelujahAl on July 11, 2009, 03:30:39 PM
Quote
The bottom line is there is absolutely no need to be able to talk whilst playing so why worry about it!
I disagree, some Morris tunes are so mind-numbingly boring one has to have something else one can do whilst playing. Since the hands are already in use, playing a quick game of rummy or strip poker is out. So I'm reduced to talking. Obviously not through all the tunes - that would be rude. But these dancers are quite rude as well you know - they will insist on dancing just when I've got a good conversation going ;)
Title: Re: A useful tip....maybe!
Post by: rees on July 11, 2009, 04:22:18 PM

'Out' ....raise one leg :P

Can't be doing with it. It looks sooo stupid.

It's easy to shout or grunt something like "ey-up" near the end of the tune.
An even better method, assuming you can see everyone, is to make simple eye contact with the principal players (especially the rhythm section, bodhran, tambourine, whatever). It leads to a much more organic ending.

Sticky up legs are pants!  :o
Title: Re: A useful tip....maybe!
Post by: HallelujahAl on July 11, 2009, 04:37:00 PM
Quote
Sticky up legs are pants! 

Better by far, however, than sticky up pants ;)
AL
Title: Re: A useful tip....maybe!
Post by: rees on July 11, 2009, 04:40:30 PM
Quote
Sticky up legs are pants! 

Better by far, however, than sticky up pants ;)
AL

... or legs up sticky pants?  ???
Title: Re: A useful tip....maybe!
Post by: Lester on July 11, 2009, 05:41:14 PM
Quote
The bottom line is there is absolutely no need to be able to talk whilst playing so why worry about it!
I disagree, some Morris tunes are so mind-numbingly boring one has to have something else one can do whilst playing.

All I can think is that you can't be playing them properly  :-\
Title: Re: A useful tip....maybe!
Post by: george garside on July 11, 2009, 05:58:25 PM
my thoughts  precisely!  There are many morris bands/musicians who put a great deal of skill into making their music & it responds accordingly.  Some bands/musicians do play boringly but that is perhaps because they have to have something else to do whilst playing!!!

george ;)   
Title: Re: A useful tip....maybe!
Post by: HallelujahAl on July 11, 2009, 08:00:38 PM
Quote
All I can think is that you can't be playing them properly

Quote
my thoughts  precisely!  There are many morris bands/musicians who put a great deal of skill into making their music & it responds accordingly.  Some bands/musicians do play boringly but that is perhaps because they have to have something else to do whilst playing!!!

Look I'm sorry if I've offended anyone's sensibilities but what a load load of old carp! There are a few Morris tunes that are, in my opinion, blindingly boring. They may be great to dance to - but frankly I find them quite boring - I'm sure that I'm playing them with a reasonable degree of competance. But by the time I've played the AB &  C sections for the umpteenth time not only am I knackered, but I've sometimes lost the will to live. Not all tunes leave me feeling that way - but some do. I'm very sorry and I shall try harder next time sirs!
AL

BTW Lester I learnt how to play most of my Morris tunes by playing along with your vids - obviously it goes without saying that they're definitely not boring in any way shape or form!
Title: Re: A useful tip....maybe!
Post by: GbH on July 11, 2009, 08:55:59 PM
During a festival kids circus show earlier today, I found myself stranded without much in the way of props, due to the rather (un)seasonal rain that was falling around the workshop tent.  Having been through the stuff I'd prepared for, I needed to get inventive as the audience clearly wanted to see more.  A Bear Dance, with real-life child-shaped snarling bears worked for a while, but I still needed something more.  So, I suddenly found myself saying that I was going to balance a stick on my chin, with a plate-thing perched on top of it, all whilst playing my Giordy.  Pretty soon after blurting that out I realised I had no idea whether I could actually do both at the same time, so was pleasantly surprised to find that it worked first time.  So, given that I could do this without too much of a problem, why does simple speech still feel so hard when squeezing out a tune?  From the comments above, at least I know I'm not alone in finding this a problem.
Title: Re: A useful tip....maybe!
Post by: xgx on July 11, 2009, 09:33:58 PM
......more organic ending.

Sticky up legs are pants!  :o


... or legs up sticky pants?  Huh?

I see what you mean by 'organic ending'  ....  ;D :P ;D
Title: Re: A useful tip....maybe!
Post by: rees on July 11, 2009, 10:34:37 PM
Apologies. I got carried away in the heat of the moment.
Please excuse my ejaculation. It was premature, I will remember to lift my leg next time.  :-*
Title: Re: A useful tip....maybe!
Post by: Bob Ellis on July 12, 2009, 12:06:38 AM
It's easy to shout or grunt something like "ey-up" near the end of the tune.

"Ey-up"?!?  Now we know the truth, Rees! That Welsh accent is just a cunning disguise. In reality, you're a closet Yorkshireman!  :o
Title: Re: A useful tip....maybe!
Post by: Owen Woods on July 12, 2009, 01:28:29 AM
There are some boring Morris tunes, of course, Shepherd's Hay springs to mind (except the Fieldtown version, which I love). There are however some cracking tunes there as well. It's just like any other collection of tunes. I can't say that I've ever found them boring to play for dance though, possibly because I've been concentrating on providing a decent tune for the dancers too much :P
Title: Re: A useful tip....maybe!
Post by: LeFonque on July 12, 2009, 03:48:17 AM
This is interesting. I'm usually the picture of concentration when playing - but when out Morrising last night during the playing of 'Valentine' I was having a little bit of a chat with another of the musicians and I realised afterwards that I'd been playing it almost on 'automatic'. This leads me to believe that not consciously thinking about what I'm doing might actually be a better way to play. Brainless melodeon! Works for me.
AL
I find this to be true in most areas of my life!
Title: Re: A useful tip....maybe!
Post by: ladydetemps on July 12, 2009, 10:31:32 AM
So, I suddenly found myself saying that I was going to balance a stick on my chin, with a plate-thing perched on top of it, all whilst playing my Giordy.  Pretty soon after blurting that out I realised I had no idea whether I could actually do both at the same time, so was pleasantly surprised to find that it worked first time. 
So when will the video of this be on youtube?
Title: Re: A useful tip....maybe!
Post by: Lester on July 12, 2009, 10:45:26 AM
There are some boring Morris tunes, of course, Shepherd's Hay springs to mind (except the Fieldtown version, which I love).

All I can think is that you can't be playing them properly either  >:E
Title: Re: A useful tip....maybe!
Post by: HallelujahAl on July 12, 2009, 06:57:21 PM
Quote
Jeez Al ...you can talk and play.....

I think having to play and sing at the same has enabled me to be able to do this. I led a service with my c/f erica this afternoon, and I noticed that as long as I have a copy of the words somewhere that I can catch sight of every now and then (so I don't have to rely on memory alone) then I'm fine. I don't need to see the music as well, that would throw me!
AL
btw there are some really boring hymns as well (nothing to do with my playing) - so I don't pick 'em!
Title: Re: A useful tip....maybe!
Post by: GbH on July 12, 2009, 07:16:05 PM
So, I suddenly found myself saying that I was going to balance a stick on my chin, with a plate-thing perched on top of it, all whilst playing my Giordy.  Pretty soon after blurting that out I realised I had no idea whether I could actually do both at the same time, so was pleasantly surprised to find that it worked first time. 
So when will the video of this be on youtube?

I'm not sure that the balance trick itself would make particularly interesting viewing on its own - I think I'd need to come up with something else to make it worth doing.
Title: Re: A useful tip....maybe!
Post by: ladydetemps on July 12, 2009, 07:17:40 PM
So, I suddenly found myself saying that I was going to balance a stick on my chin, with a plate-thing perched on top of it, all whilst playing my Giordy.  Pretty soon after blurting that out I realised I had no idea whether I could actually do both at the same time, so was pleasantly surprised to find that it worked first time. 
So when will the video of this be on youtube?

I'm not sure that the balance trick itself would make particularly interesting viewing on its own - I think I'd need to come up with something else to make it worth doing.
You could set it on fire?
Title: Re: A useful tip....maybe!
Post by: GbH on July 12, 2009, 07:20:24 PM
What, the Giordy?  I accept that some people (neighbours, perhaps..) might think this a great idea, I'm not sure I'd be so keen.
Title: Re: A useful tip....maybe!
Post by: Owen Woods on July 12, 2009, 11:12:51 PM
There are some boring Morris tunes, of course, Shepherd's Hay springs to mind (except the Fieldtown version, which I love).

All I can think is that you can't be playing them properly either  >:E


You may be right there, but I've played Shepherd's Hay too many times. I love Morris Tunes, let me make it clear, but there are some that are not quite as good as the rest, just as there are in any other collection of tunes.
Title: Re: A useful tip....maybe!
Post by: Ebor_fiddler on July 12, 2009, 11:37:21 PM
Mind, "T'Owd Lass o' Dallogill", used in the North Skelton Longsword dance is pretty boring, at least during practice when you can't play around with the emphases. It is certainly the most boring one I play. I don't mind Shepherd's Hey, because the chord structure offers much opportunity for variations.
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