Melodeon.net Forums

Discussions => General Discussion => Topic started by: Selam on July 19, 2009, 05:13:33 PM

Title: First question!! Strap brackets?!?
Post by: Selam on July 19, 2009, 05:13:33 PM
Ok so I've got to my first stumbling block. My lovely shiny Weltmeister does not have strap brackets. From searching the archives I've found that this is quite a simple thing to remedy. However, I'm definitely not brave enough to attempt this myself. Is this a painless operation? Could it be damaged? How do I find someone to fit them?

Thank you!!

(:)


I'm based in Surrey, by the way.
Title: Re: First question!! Strap brackets?!?
Post by: Lester on July 19, 2009, 05:53:00 PM
You can get strap brackets HERE (http://www.theboxplace.co.uk/boxshop-partsaccessories.htm)

They are very easy to fit if you can use a screwdriver.
Title: Re: First question!! Strap brackets?!?
Post by: LJC on July 19, 2009, 06:03:14 PM
The thing to do is put the bracket in position and mark where the hole will go with a pencil or a sharp point, drill pilot holes slightly smaller than the screws then screw bracket on. Less chance of making a mistake that way or splitting the wood screwing directly into it.
Title: Re: First question!! Strap brackets?!?
Post by: melodeon on July 19, 2009, 07:53:09 PM
Look at other instruments for a location point.... can be critical..
then mark....  pilot hole... screw driver   
good to go

I get many of my strap brackets from a boating shop    stainless steel
Title: Re: First question!! Strap brackets?!?
Post by: forrest on July 19, 2009, 11:48:15 PM
The thing to do is put the bracket in position and mark where the hole will go with a pencil or a sharp point, drill pilot holes slightly smaller than the screws then screw bracket on. Less chance of making a mistake that way or splitting the wood screwing directly into it.

This is very good advice, but first it is prudent to remove the treble end from the bellows, and examine your intended hole locations quite carefully to make sure you are not drilling into some unseen innards. I was once shown a lovely Italian made instrument, where the installer (of fancy closure straps) drilled thru the case and almost into the metal retainer holding in the reedblock for the low-voice reeds. His luck finally ran out when he drove in the screw for the closure strap bracket, and when the screw contacted the reedblock retainer, the resulting stress caused the wood of the case to crack :'(. In other words, it's ok to drill holes in your box, but always look first!
Title: Re: First question!! Strap brackets?!?
Post by: Selam on July 20, 2009, 07:47:14 AM
Eeeep! See I was all set to follow advice and buy and install them myself but that's exactly the kind of worry I have!
*quandary*
I suppose the first thing to do is get the brackets then I'll ~see~ if I can brave doing that myself.

Thanks for the advice, guys.  (:)
Title: Re: First question!! Strap brackets?!?
Post by: Sebastian on July 20, 2009, 08:42:16 AM
Ok so I've got to my first stumbling block. My lovely shiny Weltmeister does not have strap brackets.
What do you need them for?  ???
Title: Re: First question!! Strap brackets?!?
Post by: Steve_freereeder on July 20, 2009, 09:57:32 AM
Ok so I've got to my first stumbling block. My lovely shiny Weltmeister does not have strap brackets.
What do you need them for?  ???
I'll assume this is not a wind-up. Not everyone is blessed with powers of levitation enabling one to hold the melodeon in a playing position securely against the force of gravity. We have to rely on straps.
 
Yes - I know some people, particularly the traditional Cajun 1-row players, do not use shoulder straps, relying solely on the RH thumb strap and the LH wrist strap. I've tried it. It's just about OK when sitting down and with a very light box.

I would not recommend a beginner to go strapless. Especially when you are just starting out, you need the stability provided by shoulder straps to stop the box wobbling around. Cajun players aside, just about everyone uses shoulder straps, including the top professionals - so that must be telling you something.

As to whether to use one or two shoulder straps, that's a different kettle of eels and has been discussed before and at length on this forum. It boils down to a matter of personal preference. Whatever works for you best is OK.

Fitting the strap brackets is not really a big deal, just a little bit of care is needed. Two observations arising from what has already been said:

1. Pilot holes for the screws:
The wood casing of the melodeon is generally relatively soft (certainly in the case of the Weltmeisters) so take care not to make the pilot holes too deep or too wide. The strap brackets would normally come with screws provided. Check to see how far the threaded portion of the screw protrudes beyond the bracket and make your pilot hole no deeper than about 2/3rds of this measurement. Probably this will only be around 5 mm. Also ensure the diameter of the pilot hole is no more than the narrow solid core diameter excluding the diameter of the threads. This means that the screw threads will be able to cut their way into the wood and provide a secure fixing. If the pilot holes are too deep or too wide, the screw thread will not be able to get a firm fix on the wood. To make the pilot hole, it is normally quite sufficient to use a narrow hand-spike or bradawl. You can even use a thin nail and a hammer at a pinch. If you must use a drill, only use a hand drill and make sure your drill is narrow and doesn't go too deep. It will cut very quickly! If using a small dremel-type drill, turn the drill chuck by hand, rather than use the power.

2. Positioning of the strap brackets:
Normally they are positioned on the top and underneath faces of the instrument casing, about 10 - 15 mm in from the edges nearest your body and nearest the grille. If you can, have a look at other instruments, or photos, to see how the brackets are positioned. With that sort of location you shouldn't have any problems of interfering with any delicate melodeon innards. And in any case, the screws shouldn't be so long that they penetrate into the interior of the box, or no more than a fraction of a mm at the most.

Finally, when driving in your screws take care not to over-tighten them; just nip them up until they are snug but no more. Otherwise you risk stripping the screw thread from the hole in the wood.
Title: Re: First question!! Strap brackets?!?
Post by: Steve_freereeder on July 20, 2009, 10:09:49 AM
Here's a close-up view of my Castagnari Sander showing the strap brackets position.
Title: Re: First question!! Strap brackets?!?
Post by: Selam on July 21, 2009, 10:32:19 AM
Wow Steve - thanks for the detailed reply and pictures. I'm feeling a bit more confident about fitting them now! I now have moved on to worrying that they'll some how come out and envisaging a melodeon-crashing-to-the-ground disaster. I think I worry too much!!!!

 (:)

euterpe
Title: Re: First question!! Strap brackets?!?
Post by: Sebastian on July 22, 2009, 11:37:56 AM
It's just about OK when sitting down and with a very light box.
It's a Weltmeister 86W. I had never problems playing it without shoulder-straps. I tried single and double shoulder-straps on my other boxes. They are usefull if you want to stand up, yes, and if you have a bigger instrument which needs more air. But for a normal two-reeded two-row box?

I don't think I had problems with the box wobbling around either. ;)
Title: Re: First question!! Strap brackets?!?
Post by: Bananayogi on July 22, 2009, 12:03:06 PM
It's just about OK when sitting down and with a very light box.
It's a Weltmeister 86W. I had never problems playing it without shoulder-straps. I tried single and double shoulder-straps on my other boxes. They are usefull if you want to stand up, yes, and if you have a bigger instrument which needs more air. But for a normal two-reeded two-row box?

I don't think I had problems with the box wobbling around either. ;)

Presumably you must use the thumb strap then? If you don't, I can't imagine how the box doesn't wobble!

I am having a go at Cajun at the moment, and you are supposed to use the thumb strap for that style - otherwise I always use a shoulder strap to keep things at the treble end where I expect them to be...
Title: Re: First question!! Strap brackets?!?
Post by: Mike Gott on July 22, 2009, 05:23:59 PM
I play 1-row on thumb strap only and don't have a problem with it, but it seems that these days most players can't come to terms with it, a bit like the way anybody born since 1980 can't contemplate riding a bicycle without a helmet, lycra and sunglasses  ;) - but having said that, if I play stood up I need my foot up on a box or something like that, so if playing in a standing position is in the plan and you want to move about, yes - fit a strap. Just be careful not to play with your wrist kinked as can happen when you play with only one strap (on a 2+ row I not only use straps, I use two) - as that can cause all sorts of wrist problems in the future.

Mike
Title: Re: First question!! Strap brackets?!?
Post by: Selam on July 28, 2009, 06:20:57 PM
Now I'm willing to admit I'm not always the most practical person in the world but I'm completely baffled by straps & brackets! I've searched through pages of photos of boxes to work out what I'm supposed to do but now I'm appealing once more for help! And use small words. I'm clearly too stupid for anything else!   ???

Basically I have two straps but only a pair of horseshoe shaped brackets. Do I need another set of them for two straps? And how on EARTH do the straps work? Maybe it's because I've not yet recovered from the weekend but this has me completely flummoxed.

xxx
euterpe
Title: Re: First question!! Strap brackets?!?
Post by: jb on July 28, 2009, 06:33:42 PM
each bracket takes both straps - hence the horseshoe shape. The two straps go off in different directions, each from one side of the horseshoe. So you put one bracket on the top of the box, and the other on the bottom, and attach each strap to both brackets.
Title: Re: First question!! Strap brackets?!?
Post by: Selam on July 28, 2009, 06:39:09 PM
AhA!!! Brilliant! Thanks! In which case - do the brackets go parallel to the side nearest the body? As parallel as horseshoes can go, if that makes sense? I really hope I'm not the only person who finds this confusing!!!
xxx
euterpe
Title: Re: First question!! Strap brackets?!?
Post by: Pete Dunk on July 28, 2009, 07:19:17 PM
With the treble end to your right, looking down at the top of the melodeon.

You will have one strap shorter than the other, the short one is fitted to the right.

Pete.

(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk137/p_m_dunk/Primo/PrimoStrapBracket.jpg) (http://s279.photobucket.com/user/p_m_dunk/media/Primo/PrimoStrapBracket.jpg.html)
Title: Re: First question!! Strap brackets?!?
Post by: HallelujahAl on July 28, 2009, 07:20:10 PM
Quote
AhA!!! Brilliant! Thanks! In which case - do the brackets go parallel to the side nearest the body? As parallel as horseshoes can go, if that makes sense? I really hope I'm not the only person who finds this confusing!!!
xxx
euterpe

Hopefully my pic will help. You are looking at the top of my melodeon from the back (ie as you would see if were wearing it). Situate the horseshoe bracket so the round bit is nearest to you and then buckle the straps on - and away you go!
AL
Title: Re: First question!! Strap brackets?!?
Post by: HallelujahAl on July 28, 2009, 07:21:53 PM
Sorry Pete I must have pressed go on this post milliseconds after you. Same idea however!
AL
Title: Re: First question!! Strap brackets?!?
Post by: Pete Dunk on July 28, 2009, 07:29:46 PM
No worries Al, better two answers than none at all!  ;D
Title: Re: First question!! Strap brackets?!?
Post by: Selam on July 28, 2009, 08:07:26 PM
You guys are AMAZING!

Back soon - hopefully with straps attached!  ;)

xxx
euterpe
Title: Re: First question!! Strap brackets?!?
Post by: Selam on July 28, 2009, 09:03:07 PM
DONE IT!!!! Thanks to everyone! Now I don't have to lean my head on the top of the box to stop it moving - better for my posture and my hearing!!
 :|||:
xxx
euterpe
Title: Re: First question!! Strap brackets?!?
Post by: bluzdulcimer on July 28, 2009, 11:06:24 PM
Mike, can you describe what you mean about wrist position when playing
with one strap?  Do you mean kinked in or out?  And why is this just a
problem when playing with one strap as opposed to two?

I play 1-row on thumb strap only and don't have a problem with it, but it seems that these days most players can't come to terms with it, a bit like the way anybody born since 1980 can't contemplate riding a bicycle without a helmet, lycra and sunglasses  ;) - but having said that, if I play stood up I need my foot up on a box or something like that, so if playing in a standing position is in the plan and you want to move about, yes - fit a strap. Just be careful not to play with your wrist kinked as can happen when you play with only one strap (on a 2+ row I not only use straps, I use two) - as that can cause all sorts of wrist problems in the future.

Mike
Title: Re: First question!! Strap brackets?!?
Post by: theSmoiler on July 29, 2009, 12:33:30 AM
Mike, can you describe what you mean about wrist position when playing
with one strap?  Do you mean kinked in or out?  And why is this just a
problem when playing with one strap as opposed to two?

Just be careful not to play with your wrist kinked as can happen when you play with only one strap (on a 2+ row I not only use straps, I use two) - as that can cause all sorts of wrist problems in the future.

Mike

I presume Mike is meaning a potentially awkward wrist position due to also having to support the box, to some extent, as well as finger the keyboard, if using only one strap. I have only ever used one strap, and tend to hold the keyboard round the back ie with the edge of the keyboard resting in the web between my thumb and first finger (ok, supposedly bad practice - but it's never stopped me, and I think Brian Peters holds his box this way, too). However, I don't think this (trying desperately to simulate the position with various objects nearby, as no melodeon currently to hand!) leads to inappropriate position of the wrist and arm - on the contrary, it tends to give a neutral ie 'straight' position of the hand, relative to the forearm - neither 'kinked down' (in flexion
extension) or 'kinked up' (in extension flexion). The normal functional 'rest' position of the wrist is 15% flexion ie slightly bent upwards - so neutral isn't too bad. Whereas, playing with your wrist on the edge of the fingerboard, as one is supposed to do, to me produces almost excessive wrist extension ie with the wrist well bent over - which in turn can produce an uncomfortable internal rotation of the shoulder. This combination, I feel, is more likely to give later problems. (:-[ OK, so I'm a therapist...).

I don't get any wrist problems from playing my way. BUT, what I do get, if playing for long periods such as at Festivals, is thumb strain - since my thumb tends to 'wiggle' constantly in association with the movement of my other fingers, leading to Overuse Syndrome over time! This can be very painful, and resulted in the need for a thumb stabilising splint (produced in America to counter-act 'texters' thumb' apparently) for these times - nicknamed 'Wiggly's Truss' by my ex- who sourced it on the Internet!
Works well, and entirely functional to play in.

Anyway, I digress from the original strap brackets... Just a word of warning...I recently bumped into the chap whom I sold my Loffet 3-voice to. He was really pleased with the box, but I noticed it had rather more dings on it than when I'd parted with it only 2 months before - to which he explained that, on lifting it out of the case one day, the strap bracket parted company with the box, and the box fell (luckily, not far). Apparently, the screws - despite it being a reasonably weighty box - were only really short, and he has now replaced them with longer ones. So, I suppose a note of caution also needs to be sounded here about the length of screws relative to weight they are supporting.

Diane
Title: Re: First question!! Strap brackets?!?
Post by: Lester on July 29, 2009, 06:35:09 AM
<snip>
 However, I don't think this (trying desperately to simulate the position with various objects nearby, as no melodeon currently to hand!) leads to inappropriate position of the wrist and arm - on the contrary, it tends to give a neutral ie 'straight' position of the hand, relative to the forearm - neither 'kinked down' (in flexion) or 'kinked up' (in extension).
<snip>
Diane

I agree with Diane on this, I think one strap gives a better wrist position than two (I use both systems form 1 on my one rows and 2 rows but two on my 2.5 rows - it's a weight thing). My avatar shows my normal standing playing position.
Title: Re: First question!! Strap brackets?!?
Post by: theSmoiler on July 29, 2009, 11:52:41 PM
Whoops, noted a typo in my post above (which applies to the bit quoted by Lester) - so have corrected (my excuse is...it was late). Thanks to person in other thread who caused me to re-read.

AND...I think my final paragraph, of warning re. strap brackets, was totally on topic

Diane
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal