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Discussions => Instrument Makes and Models => Topic started by: Kris Miskim on February 27, 2018, 07:36:59 PM

Title: Newbie looking to buy. Feedback please!! Menghini CG vs Panther
Post by: Kris Miskim on February 27, 2018, 07:36:59 PM
Hi all.
I'm interested in learning to play, like my grand- and great-grandparents did! I am an absolute beginner, tho I know a bit about chords from tinkering on guitar and piano. I've been looking at the HOHNER PANTHER, but have read that 3 rows could be a bit much (maybe more than I need to start?). I've found a Menghini at a local accordion store that looks appealing, and would be at the top of my budget. I don't find much info online about the Menghini. I'm wondering if it would be a better quality than the Panther. I don't know what year it is, but the accordion store has been around forever, and completely refurbishes and certifies their used accordions. Here is the link:  http://www.petosa.com/product/menghini-diatonic/

I would sooooo appreciate any input (re brands, key, etc.) I can't wait to get started!
Thanks!! KRIS
Title: Re: Newbie looking to buy. Feedback please!! Menghini CG vs Panther
Post by: Grape Ape on February 27, 2018, 08:57:46 PM
Nothing wrong with starting on three rows- but as other will say your first box is not likely to be your last.  I do not know the second brand, but I did own a Panther and in my opinion it is complete junk.  Things started breaking within less than a year, and I am for the most part a gentle player.  The advert for the second box has a couple of things I thought looked odd, but as I said, I do not know the brand.  My advice would be to grab a second hand pokerwork and start from there.  They come up often on this site, ebay, and especially german ebay.  They retain their value so chances are good you can resell it for what you pay for it.  Or you may find as did someone I know, that even after acquiring a mass of 14 or so boxes you still love the pokerwork for simplicity, durability, and low worries price should it be lost stolen or damaged.
For 3 rows, I would again defer you to ebay or this site, with again German ebay being some of the best deals- but be careful  and ask lots of questions to cover yourself should the item not be as described.  I recently got a 3row gcf corona with registers for about the cost of a new panther.  The difference in quality doesn’t even allow for a fair comparison.
Title: Re: Newbie looking to buy. Feedback please!! Menghini CG vs Panther
Post by: Sebastian on February 27, 2018, 09:18:22 PM
I'm wondering if it would be a better quality than the Panther.
Probably. The Menghini has one button per row more than usual (12 + 11 instead of 11 + 10). Otherwise I don't know what Grape Ape did hint at.

Your local accordion store does rentals. Why not ask them whether you could rent the Menghini for a month?
Title: Re: Newbie looking to buy. Feedback please!! Menghini CG vs Panther
Post by: boxcall on February 27, 2018, 09:23:06 PM
I don't know how good but here is some info on this site,
http://www.accordionlinks.com/manufacturer.html


"Menghini Srl from Castelfidardo, Italy, was founded in 1995; it was spun off from Farfisa. They made Paolo Soprani and Scandalli accordions. In 2003 it merged with SEM to form Suoni. A 2005 interview with Mirco Patarini, director of Menghini "



If they made these models they can't be to bad, I think?
Good to try it first though.
Good luck and welcome to the forum!
Title: Re: Newbie looking to buy. Feedback please!! Menghini CG vs Panther
Post by: melodeon on February 28, 2018, 12:28:42 AM
Kris..

Petosa is/was a decent shop  it was when I was up there many moons ago)

The Menghini , if made in Castelfidardo, no doubt would be of a higher quality than the Panther.

Ask them what reeds are in it.

Italian made and whether machine,  dural, tipo a mano etc.

I would get the two row as it is a GC, the three row is a C/F with a G outer row..
Lots of great learning material for the G/C ....
And I believe that you could resell the Menghini easily at minimal loss where as the PANTHER would take a bigger hit.

Go to THE BUTTON BOX  online and check out the learning material for G/C.

Some of my favorite players are G/C... check the recordings/videos section of Mel Net.. ToraderM being one of the best. (youtube)

Also in the US there is Santiago Jimenez a knock out 2 row G/C player.. Flaco's brother. Check out youtube.

Best of luck.

PS   $700 seems a good price for a decent Italian made two reed two row.   
Have someone not associated with the store check it out for you..
I think there are some melnetters up your way.



Title: Re: Newbie looking to buy. Feedback please!! Menghini CG vs Panther
Post by: Jesse Smith on February 28, 2018, 02:01:17 AM
What kind of music do you want to play, Kris? That will help determine what sort of box is best suited.
Title: Re: Newbie looking to buy. Feedback please!! Menghini CG vs Panther
Post by: Edward Jennings on February 28, 2018, 05:41:59 AM
Just a quickie here...if it's Italian, then why does it have "MYHRBRAATEN OSLO" on the front of the box?
Title: Re: Newbie looking to buy. Feedback please!! Menghini CG vs Panther
Post by: triskel on February 28, 2018, 06:47:19 AM
...if it's Italian, then why does it have "MYHRBRAATEN OSLO" on the front of the box?

Because they sold it originally I expect.

It's Italian, and made by the same firm as Scandalli and Paolo Soprani, but I've never seen one actually badged Menghini before so can't comment with any knowledge of what it'd be like.

The only downside I can see is that it looks unusually large for a 2-voice box.
Title: Re: Newbie looking to buy. Feedback please!! Menghini CG vs Panther
Post by: melodeon on February 28, 2018, 01:34:05 PM
"The only downside I can see is that it looks unusually large for a 2-voice box."

Not as big as a three row,     And   Manly  : )
Title: Re: Newbie looking to buy. Feedback please!! Menghini CG vs Panther
Post by: pgroff on February 28, 2018, 02:02:07 PM
...if it's Italian, then why does it have "MYHRBRAATEN OSLO" on the front of the box?

Because they sold it originally I expect.

It's Italian, and made by the same firm as Scandalli and Paolo Soprani, but I've never seen one actually badged Menghini before so can't comment with any knowledge of what it'd be like.

The only downside I can see is that it looks unusually large for a 2-voice box.

I saw that box listed on Reverb.com some time ago and my first reaction was "looks like a 3 voice box." Not necessarily, but boxes this size often have 3 reedblocks (so, 3 sets of reeds for a 2 row box). Petosa should know, but may not have cracked it open if it came to them playing and sounding fine. Couldn't hurt to ask for inside photos.

PG
Title: Re: Newbie looking to buy. Feedback please!! Menghini CG vs Panther
Post by: Kris Miskim on February 28, 2018, 04:02:17 PM
Wow! What an amazing bunch of folks on this forum! Thank you so much for your speedy feedback and input! I appreciate it!!

I plan to go up to Seattle this weekend and check out the Menghini, along with anything else they may have. Thanks for the input on some questions I should ask.

 I've also been looking at the Corona ll (not Classic ... Way beyond my budget). I fiddled with the Panther and the Corona at our local music store... QUITE a difference in tone! Will be fun to try the Menghini. It's sounding like a two row could be fine for a beginner like me ... plenty of room to learn on that!

We'll see how it goes. Thanks again... Love the input!!
Title: Re: Newbie looking to buy. Feedback please!! Menghini CG vs Panther
Post by: John MacKenzie (Cugiok) on February 28, 2018, 04:25:46 PM
Did you see this previous post? The guy is in Seattle. I love the look of this box.

Sir John

http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,21862.0.html
Title: Re: Newbie looking to buy. Feedback please!! Menghini CG vs Panther
Post by: triskel on February 28, 2018, 06:56:35 PM
Did you see this previous post? The guy is in Seattle. I love the look of this box.

Sir John

http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,21862.0.html

Only it's sold now, isn't it? :-\
Title: Re: Newbie looking to buy. Feedback please!! Menghini CG vs Panther
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on February 28, 2018, 07:01:52 PM
Wow! What an amazing bunch of folks on this forum! Thank you so much for your speedy feedback and input! I appreciate it!!

...Will be fun to try the Menghini. It's sounding like a two row could be fine for a beginner like me ... plenty of room to learn on that!

Don't dismiss two rows as beginner's instruments. They are far more than that.
Title: Re: Newbie looking to buy. Feedback please!! Menghini CG vs Panther
Post by: melodeon on February 28, 2018, 09:19:19 PM
Check out this "beginner" : )


ToraderM.. an inmate of this ward..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdn1KCGii-E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_Jx4gPFnlI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EizI4Ia3LfQ
Title: Re: Newbie looking to buy. Feedback please!! Menghini CG vs Panther
Post by: melodeon on February 28, 2018, 09:27:39 PM
Per the CORONA II...
German made only, and pre 1980...

The best ones are earlier with a pearloid faced wooden keyboard. Not black plastic.. though some of the earlier black plastic keyboard models were ok.

Personally, I'd go with a 2 row G/C.

Italian 2 row vs a German/Hohner Corona...   

Given condition and playability ok.. The G/C 2 row.

IIRC  The GCF has only one note not found on the G/C ..

I think Paul will attest to this..
There are many tunes that can be played on a 2 row box 
Just as there are many tunes that can be played on a 20 button Anglo Concertina
Title: Re: Newbie looking to buy. Feedback please!! Menghini CG vs Panther
Post by: Kris Miskim on March 01, 2018, 07:59:43 PM
Thanks again! Great feedback, especially about all that a two row has to offer. I feel pretty excited about the Menghini. Can't wait to go look this Saturday. Hopefully they will still have it.

I've been tinkering around on my great-grandfathers old eichhorn 2-row. It is so far out of tune and patched up that it'll never play a full tune, but it's behen a great learning experience for me, and really prompted my melodeon interest. I've replaced valves and re-gusseted and taped the bellows. It's just fun (and educational) to tinker! :) It actually has a few lovely notes and chords that it didn't have before I started :)
Title: Re: Newbie looking to buy. Feedback please!! Menghini CG vs Panther
Post by: hickory-wind on March 01, 2018, 08:31:34 PM
Kris-
If you want more options I have a website with 25+ two row instruments that can be tuned to your preference. I am a restorer/tuner in western NY State. Visit this linkhttp://bellingersbuttonboxes.com/product/two-row-accordions-restored-tuned-as-you-like/ (http://bellingersbuttonboxes.com/product/two-row-accordions-restored-tuned-as-you-like/) Any picture not labeled as SOLD should be available. To keep costs down for the buyer, I just add or restore the features important to him/her.

I also have a YouTube channel where I have demonstrated many button accordions in 1, 2, & 3 row models in many different keys so you can get an idea of how "wet" tuning compares to "dry" tuning; how GC compares to BbEb to DG, etc. Link here: http://www.youtube.com/c/ScottBellinger (http://www.youtube.com/c/ScottBellinger)

I've not had my hands on a Menghini yet and I would like to know your opinion of it after you visit Petosa. Best of luck in your search.

Scott Bellinger

Title: Re: Newbie looking to buy. Feedback please!! Menghini CG vs Panther
Post by: triskel on March 02, 2018, 01:21:30 AM
I've been tinkering around on my great-grandfathers old eichhorn 2-row.

Wow, there's something very, very special that you have in common with melodeon (http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php?action=profile;u=99) then. :o 

He too has his great-grandfather's old 2.4-row, though he didn't know it was Swiss, or an Eichorn, until I identified it as such for him.
Title: Re: Newbie looking to buy. Feedback please!! Menghini CG vs Panther
Post by: boxcall on March 02, 2018, 02:06:45 AM

I've been tinkering around on my great-grandfathers old eichhorn 2-row. It is so far out of tune and patched up that it'll never play a full tune,
Nice ! It may not be " it'll never play a full tune" if you get it fix up (:) if you can play something on it it may be worth fixing for the sentimental value. I thought I'd never be able to get My grandfathers box playing proper but with a bit of effort and some very helpful folks here it got done. Also took a little cash ( cost of the new Bellows mostly) to be honest but it was well worth it, the box plays great now.
It is a hohner so a good breed, I'm not sure about your G-G daddy's.
For me I wouldn't sell it so I'm not worried about what I spent on it , bottom line is I couldn't buy one in good nick for what I spent to fix it. I didn't fix it right away it took some MADness to set in , so maybe some day.
Good luck finding a box!!
Title: Re: Newbie looking to buy. Feedback please!! Menghini CG vs Panther
Post by: triskel on March 02, 2018, 03:41:29 AM
I've been tinkering around on my great-grandfathers old eichhorn 2-row. It is so far out of tune and patched up that it'll never play a full tune,

My grandfathers box ... is a hohner so a good breed, I'm not sure about your G-G daddy's.

It's a Schwyzerorgel, handmade in Schwyz, Switzerland, since 1886, and they're still making them there (unlike Hohner, in Trossingen :().

Quote from: Werner Greuter, present owner of Eichhorn Schwyzerörgelfabrik and Musikhaus
We make abut 30-50 accordions per year,” he tells me, through a translator. “That much adequately meets the demand, but most people bring in their old ones to get fixed. We’re always working on old ones.”

“Like wine, they improve with age.” Christian explains. “The wood hardens. The sound gets better the more you play it. No two are the same, just like no two pianos are the same. Each will have variations, some are softer, some have a more aggressive sound"

The Eichhorn Schwyzerorgelfabrik and Musikhaus (http://travelingboy.com/archive-travel-gary-switzerland.html)

Der perfekte Klang braucht feine Hände (https://www.andreaschelbert.ch/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Eichhorn-Schwyz.pdf)

Eichhorn Schwyz facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/Eichhorn-Schwyz-186866381338343/)
Title: Re: Newbie looking to buy. Feedback please!! Menghini CG vs Panther
Post by: Sebastian on March 02, 2018, 03:59:01 AM
Eichhorn Schwyz facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/Eichhorn-Schwyz-186866381338343/)
The latest post on the Facebook page (from yesterday) is a newspaper article saying: "The company Eichhorn Schwyzerörgeli doesn’t exist any longer," and: "Production of Schwyzerörgelis has ceased."
Title: Re: Newbie looking to buy. Feedback please!! Menghini CG vs Panther
Post by: triskel on March 02, 2018, 04:42:11 AM
Eichhorn Schwyz facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/Eichhorn-Schwyz-186866381338343/)
The latest post on the Facebook page (from yesterday) is a newspaper article saying: "The company Eichhorn Schwyzerörgeli doesn’t exist any longer," and: "Production of Schwyzerörgelis has ceased."

That's a shame! :( (No wonder I couldn't access their website... :-\)

Thoroughly bad timing though!  ::)
Title: Re: Newbie looking to buy. Feedback please!! Menghini CG vs Panther
Post by: melodeon on March 02, 2018, 01:57:14 PM
"Wow, there's something very, very special that you have in common with melodeon then. :o 

He too has his great-grandfather's old 2.4-row, though he didn't know it was Swiss, or an Eichorn, until I identified it as such for him."

It's twoo, it's twoo. ( Elmer Fudd imitation) and thank you for the box forensics.


Mine is a 2 1/2 row... 21 plus 4 with 6 bass buttons.

This was my GGFs and according to my mother, he played it often.  He was know to play for Austrian/Bohemian gatherings, weddings, parties etc. 
If I had the ability/skill/knowledge/expertise to post a photo I would.

If you e mail me.. I could send a photo.

It is in the keys of D/G.
The box plays well and has a great sound.
This accordeon is approaching 100 years old.
There are some very cool, colloquial/vernacular/skilled amateur  repairs to include brass plates, and folded bits  playing cards inside the bellows.

I have often thought of making a modern replica.

Title: Re: Newbie looking to buy. Feedback please!! Menghini CG vs Panther
Post by: triskel on March 02, 2018, 05:22:06 PM
If I had the ability/skill/knowledge/expertise to post a photo I would.

If you e mail me.. I could send a photo.

I'll see if I can post some of the ones you sent me last year.
Title: Re: Newbie looking to buy. Feedback please!! Menghini CG vs Panther
Post by: melodeon on March 02, 2018, 07:07:31 PM
I have the box in front of me..

Photos available per request.. to include the case my GGF made for the box.
Title: Re: Newbie looking to buy. Feedback please!! Menghini CG vs Panther
Post by: triskel on March 02, 2018, 08:39:48 PM
If I had the ability/skill/knowledge/expertise to post a photo I would.

I'll see if I can post some of the ones you sent me last year.

(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/StephenChambers/Jeffs%20GGFs%20Eichorn%206.jpg)

(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/StephenChambers/Jeffs%20GGFs%20Eichorn%202ed.jpg)

(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/StephenChambers/Jeffs%20GGFs%20Eichorn%204.jpg)

(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/StephenChambers/Jeffs%20GGFs%20Eichorn%201.jpg)

(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/StephenChambers/Jeffs%20GGFs%20Eichorn%205.jpg)

(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/StephenChambers/Jeffs%20GGFs%20Eichorn%203.jpg)
Title: Re: Newbie looking to buy. Feedback please!! Menghini CG vs Panther
Post by: melodeon on March 02, 2018, 09:23:08 PM
Thanks for posting the photos.
Title: Re: Newbie looking to buy. Feedback please!! Menghini CG vs Panther
Post by: boxcall on March 02, 2018, 11:25:06 PM
Cool looking box! Nice to have something from your GGF to cherish.
If you feel like posting the case He made I'd be interested in seeing it, I suspect no butt joints ;)
I like how folks back "when" made stuff instead of buying it if they could, mostly because they had to, but I still admire that they did.
Title: Re: Newbie looking to buy. Feedback please!! Menghini CG vs Panther
Post by: triskel on March 03, 2018, 01:15:23 AM
... Nice to have something from your GGF to cherish.
If you feel like posting the case He made I'd be interested in seeing it ...

I'll gladly post the image here if Jeff emails me with it.

(It's maybe just as well I didn't get to inherit my GGF instrument, which was a 2-manual American organ with pedal board... :o He died a few years before I was born, and my father found he couldn't even give it away, so one wet weekend he dismantled it, salvaging what he could of the timber. Well, it was taking-up half the living room!)
Title: Re: Newbie looking to buy. Feedback please!! Menghini CG vs Panther
Post by: boxcall on March 03, 2018, 01:49:46 AM
... Nice to have something from your GGF to cherish.
If you feel like posting the case He made I'd be interested in seeing it ...

I'll gladly post the image here if Jeff emails me with it.

(It's maybe just as well I didn't get to inherit my GGF instrument, which was a 2-manual American organ with pedal board... :o He died a few years before I was born, and my father found he couldn't even give it away, so one wet weekend he dismantled it, salvaging what he could of the timber. Well, it was taking-up half the living room!)
Well if it was taking up space and no one was using it, I don't blame Him. Did he make something with the wood?
What does the  "2 -manual" mean?
Title: Re: Newbie looking to buy. Feedback please!! Menghini CG vs Panther
Post by: triskel on March 03, 2018, 03:15:24 AM
Him. Did he make something with the wood?

Knowing my father, I'm quite sure he did, though the only thing I know about him doing with it was repairing a door. But he used to make all sorts of things in the '40s, including wooden toys (and still had a book about that) because they were otherwise unobtainable.

The only piece of his carpentry I have is an Art Deco oak sofa table, made out of an oak board that he managed to get off a village coffin maker when it was rationed and impossible to get.

Quote
What does the  "2 -manual" mean?

"2 -manual" = 2 keyboards, which would have different sounds on them, plus it had a (bass) pedal board, something like this Mason & Hamlin I guess:

(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/StephenChambers/Mason%20%20Hamlin%202-manual%20%20pedal%20board.jpg)

And he'd have needed a full-width organ bench to sit on and play it, taking up even more space - not very handy for taking to sessions... :-\
Title: Re: Newbie looking to buy. Feedback please!! Menghini CG vs Panther
Post by: boxcall on March 03, 2018, 03:49:10 PM
"And he'd have needed a full-width organ bench to sit on and play it"

 you could use that as a coffee table ;)


"2 -manual" = 2 keyboards"    I got it now.

sorry for thread drift
Title: Re: Newbie looking to buy. Feedback please!! Menghini CG vs Panther
Post by: Kimric Smythe on March 05, 2018, 06:07:09 PM
Petosa is a top notch shop that has been in business since the early 1930's I believe and is run by the same family. I get my Giulietti instruments from them. They should be able to tell you anything you would care to know about the box.

 I have a couple of Hohner 3 rows that I have restored ,both still have the bass blocks and reeds. I rebuilt them a few months ago.
One is a Corona that is most likely 70's-80's vintage. The other is a 1940's model that did not appear to have been played much at all. I had to rewax and revalve it but it needed almost no tuning. http://www.smythesaccordioncenter.com/button-accordions.html
Title: Re: Newbie looking to buy. Feedback please!! Menghini CG vs Panther
Post by: Kris Miskim on March 05, 2018, 09:56:09 PM
Hi all. Thanks again for your great input. I purchased the Menghini from Petosa on Saturday and am VERY excited. It is B.E.A.U.T.I.F.U.L! I'm working on scales and just having fun! Can't wait to pick it up and play after work today. So... thank youall, and I know this forum will be a treasure of great info as I practice and learn.

Another note: The photos of the Eichhorn are beautiful. That is in AMAZING condition. The one I have from my GGF is pretty worn... even held together with masking tape in a few places! But, it's still a treasure, and definitely sparked my interest in playing!!