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Discussions => Tune of the Month => Topic started by: Clive Williams on May 01, 2018, 11:11:53 AM

Title: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Clive Williams on May 01, 2018, 11:11:53 AM
Hi all - this month's tune after 2 months being runner up,is the Tip Top Polka - here played by Paul Earwicker, and very nice too... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFM_f36k42k and here's as complete a tutorial as you could possibly want from Gavin Atkin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgQbOsTVRFs

Enjoy!

Clive

Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: folkbluesnbeyond on May 01, 2018, 11:30:56 AM
The sun is shining: pro tem

https://youtu.be/Gqj1zzTYPqc

All the best

Bill
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: baz parkes on May 01, 2018, 11:58:30 AM
https://youtu.be/0-Gyo2bmO6Y

Someone had to.... >:E >:E
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Jesse Smith on May 02, 2018, 12:35:53 PM
Was this tune originally written by the Bacup Coconutters, or is it an older traditional tune that predates their use of it?
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Saul Bailey on May 02, 2018, 01:26:17 PM
Complete with cheesy key changes and the old switch-a-roo!

https://youtu.be/fPHjuWmABgk

Saul  :||:
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: baz parkes on May 02, 2018, 03:22:28 PM
Was this tune originally written by the Bacup Coconutters, or is it an older traditional tune that predates their use of it?

Given they usually dance to a silver band, I doubt they would have composed it...but have no evidence that this is the case.
Someone more knowledgeable than I will be along shortly,,,x
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Lester on May 02, 2018, 03:45:01 PM
This is from t'internet so is definitely true

CLOW BANK. AKA - "Tip Top Polka." English, North-West Morris Tune (2/4 time). G Major. Standard tuning (fiddle). AB. Tune for a polka step dance and is employed by the dancers of the Pennine town of Bacup, Lancashire. The melody has been attributed to Moravian composer, conductor and impresario Max Maretzek (1821-1897), composed about 1850, and published by Edward L. Walker of Philadelphia.

https://tunearch.org/wiki/Annotation:Clow_Bank
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Jesse Smith on May 02, 2018, 04:01:54 PM
Thanks, Lester, that's something at least!
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: baz parkes on May 02, 2018, 04:08:45 PM
Might it be here

https://www.loc.gov/resource/sm1884.13797.0/?sp=1

I don't do dots so I don't know...
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Jesse Smith on May 02, 2018, 04:12:38 PM
Might it be here

https://www.loc.gov/resource/sm1884.13797.0/?sp=1

I don't do dots so I don't know...
No, that's a different tune (and I think I saw yet another different Tip Top Polka on the LoC website earlier).
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Tufty on May 02, 2018, 05:04:45 PM
For anyone not familiar with the Britannia Coconut Dancers ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sl58rIDNdWA

Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Mike Carney on May 02, 2018, 05:15:27 PM
For anyone not familiar with the Britannia Coconut Dancers ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sl58rIDNdWA
A work of true beauty and grace. Only in England. Thanks for the reminder!
 (:)
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: olly on May 02, 2018, 06:44:16 PM
Complete with cheesy key changes and the old switch-a-roo!
Great stuff 😀

https://youtu.be/fPHjuWmABgk

Saul  :||:
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Thrupenny Bit on May 02, 2018, 08:08:06 PM
Thank you so much Tufty - just sublime!
It always makes me  smile when watching, it's something you just can't make up in a million years.....
Q
 
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Daddy Long Les on May 03, 2018, 08:01:06 AM
This is my version.  Slow and steady for tuition purposes and interspersed with the Tip Top Hornpipe.  We use these tunes for our processional with Chelmsford Morris.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvUSYN3z0KA

Cheers

Les
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Martin P on May 03, 2018, 08:19:28 PM
I’m told that The Nutters band play TTP in Eb (being a Silver Band, that is natural for them). So perhaps don’t expect to sound the same on a D/G box!
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Martin P on May 03, 2018, 09:34:18 PM
Causes confusion amongst confused Southerners, but does anybody know of an actual dance that is danced to Rochdale Coconut Dance Tune? For the geographically challenged, Bacup is not the same as Rochdale. Bacup is much prettier.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Lester on May 03, 2018, 09:43:55 PM
Causes confusion amongst confused Southerners, but does anybody know of an actual dance that is danced to Rochdale Coconut Dance Tune? For the geographically challenged, Bacup is not the same as Rochdale. Bacup is much prettier.

This is the traditional dance (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi2E7Ez3BDg)
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Martin P on May 03, 2018, 10:38:37 PM
Whilst bowing to Lester’s great wisdom, I suspect he is being ironic here. I’m sure this tune wasn’t written for Belly Dancers. Any other  (sensible) suggestions?
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: howard mitchell on May 03, 2018, 10:53:00 PM
Here’s my concoction simulating the parts played by the Stacksteads Band for the Bacup dancers.
All played on the same melodeon, multitracked.

https://youtu.be/xyqgikYeRA4 (https://youtu.be/xyqgikYeRA4)

Compare with https://youtu.be/Sl58rIDNdWA (https://youtu.be/Sl58rIDNdWA)

Mitch
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Fred on May 04, 2018, 12:13:36 AM
Very nice renditions so far. I'm looking forward to hear a few more before recording my own take on it. :)
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on May 04, 2018, 12:31:54 AM
For anyone not familiar with the Britannia Coconut Dancers ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sl58rIDNdWA

Anyone know how long they've been doing this?
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Tufty on May 04, 2018, 09:27:37 AM
From the team's website:
 "As mines and quarries opened in Lancashire in the 18th & 19th  centuries some of the Cornish men headed north bringing their mining expertise with them  and it is with these men that the dances were reputedly brought into this area, in particular two Cornish men who came to work in Whitworth  (this was relayed by a former team member many years ago). The dances spread throughout Rossendale and around the turn of the century there were at least four troupes one of which was the Tunstead Mill troop who celebrated their half century in 1907 and is from this troop in which the Britannia Coconut Dancers descended from".
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on May 04, 2018, 09:56:01 AM
From the team's website:
 "As mines and quarries opened in Lancashire in the 18th & 19th  centuries some of the Cornish men headed north bringing their mining expertise with them  and it is with these men that the dances were reputedly brought into this area, in particular two Cornish men who came to work in Whitworth

Proper! I 'ent seen 'em doin' this in Bodmin.

Thanks. I never thought of looking there  :|bl
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Thrupenny Bit on May 07, 2018, 09:55:15 AM
You won't have seen them Greg, they've left Bodmin and gone to Bacup  ;D

Here's my effort.
https://soundcloud.com/thrupenny-bit/tip-top-polka

I've recorded it on my BbEb Erika as it reminds me of their brass band, and at more like their dance speed.
I've only ever seen them at the Sidmouth Festival, not on their home turf, but I could watch them all day!
cheers
Q
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on May 10, 2018, 12:46:43 PM
Back to ambling through tunes  (:)

My Tip Top Polka done as what I normally do it. Nowt' fancy,  like.

https://soundcloud.com/greg-bradfield-smith/tip-top-09-05-take-1
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Chris Rayner on May 10, 2018, 01:52:46 PM
Whilst bowing to Lester’s great wisdom, I suspect he is being ironic here. I’m sure this tune wasn’t written for Belly Dancers. Any other  (sensible) suggestions?

Given the approximate concurrence in time and geography of the composition of the tune and the invention of the polka, and the fact that the tune is described as a polka in its title I’d hazard a guess that the original dance was a polka.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: robotmay on May 10, 2018, 06:15:32 PM
You won't have seen them Greg, they've left Bodmin and gone to Bacup  ;D

Here's my effort.
https://soundcloud.com/thrupenny-bit/tip-top-polka

I've recorded it on my BbEb Erika as it reminds me of their brass band, and at more like their dance speed.
I've only ever seen them at the Sidmouth Festival, not on their home turf, but I could watch them all day!
cheers
Q

Sounds cracking on that box! Gives it a really mellow vibe (:)
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Thrupenny Bit on May 10, 2018, 08:48:59 PM
thanks robotmay.
Yes it's a lovely mellow sound and some tunes seem to sit particularly well on it. It makes a great change from my normal DG boxes.
Q
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Broadland Boy on May 10, 2018, 11:06:15 PM
This version of Tip Top Hornpipe and Polka by DTN & Jimbo is one of my all time favourite YT spots - if only  :||:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RyY7WDmkog
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Thrupenny Bit on May 11, 2018, 10:25:30 AM
The DTN and Jimbo video was a huge prompt for me when starting.
It's inspirational seeing such fun and enjoyment when storming up a tune in their inimitable way.
Yes an all time favourite of mine too.
Q
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Eshed on May 11, 2018, 11:52:15 AM
Work in progress, but the tune is there hiding beneath the erratic tempo changes.
https://youtu.be/fB6b5IT-HRQ

To add insult to injury, I've also messed up the focus.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Winston Smith on May 11, 2018, 12:03:03 PM
Very nice, Eshed!
Seemed pretty confidently played, plus nice and bouncy. I loved it.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Eshed on May 11, 2018, 01:01:24 PM
Very nice, Eshed!
Seemed pretty confidently played, plus nice and bouncy. I loved it.
Thank you Edward!
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Nigel on May 11, 2018, 03:02:26 PM
Very Good, Eshed. My feet were certainly tapping along with your playing. 
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Dick Rees on May 11, 2018, 05:17:17 PM
Very nice, Eshed!
Seemed pretty confidently played, plus nice and bouncy. I loved it.

Another thumbs up!  You play very musically.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Gena Crisman on May 11, 2018, 08:32:16 PM
Work in progress, but the tune is there hiding beneath the erratic tempo changes.
https://youtu.be/fB6b5IT-HRQ

I really enjoyed listening to your chord choices and watching you play them. I also noted that you're playing a different instrument than when I last saw you perform, so poked at your public videos to see when you got it - in one of which you were taking a preliminary shot at the Monkey Island theme; I think that's super cool! I hope you're able to continue with that one as well.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Eshed on May 11, 2018, 09:03:07 PM
Very Good, Eshed. My feet were certainly tapping along with your playing. 
This must be a mistake, it is the tip top polka, not the tap tap polka  ;)

Another thumbs up!  You play very musically.
Thank you!

I really enjoyed listening to your chord choices and watching you play them. I also noted that you're playing a different instrument than when I last saw you perform, so poked at your public videos to see when you got it - in one of which you were taking a preliminary shot at the Monkey Island theme; I think that's super cool! I hope you're able to continue with that one as well.
Yes, I've had the opportunity to get this new (old) box and it is so much fun to play!
Indeed I'm working on the rest of Monkey Island. Hopefully it's going to be ready for the current Theme of the Month (Michael Land is American, so I think it counts).
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Clive Williams on May 12, 2018, 06:28:55 PM
Here's my take on this again played on the G/C Lilliput. What a great tune - I had a blast learning it - don't know why I've never played this before. Here you go:

https://youtu.be/wUlebsoDSK8
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Eshed on May 12, 2018, 10:56:12 PM
Here's my take on this again played on the G/C Lilliput. What a great tune - I had a blast learning it - don't know why I've never played this before. Here you go:

https://youtu.be/wUlebsoDSK8
I really enjoyed this! The well-timed pauses kept me eagerly waiting for the music to come back  :D
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: baz parkes on May 16, 2018, 09:52:54 AM
Given many people have wondered about the, shall we say, singularity of the Nutters, here's a rather splendid piece of work recently published by Pete Bearon.

He's also a rather fine melodeon player, so hopefully we're still on topic...

Enjoy...I certainly did.

https://media.efdss.org/docs/HOM/HOM%20Bearon%20Coconut%20Dances.pdf

For those of a politically sensitive nature the historical references quoted occasionally use the "n" word...they are creatures of their time....
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Thrupenny Bit on May 16, 2018, 11:42:23 AM
really interesting, thanks for sharing Baz.......
Q
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Mcgrooger on May 18, 2018, 12:38:56 PM
Here's my go. All done in a bit of a rush. Played on my D/G Saltarelle L'Elfique, all reeds a blazin'.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6EFyjUW0Is
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: boblsturm on May 26, 2018, 03:57:06 PM
I've really enjoyed many of the postings here. What a fun happy tune.

Here's my take: https://youtu.be/pu25-8-M9DI

I begin with a variation of the Tip Top Polka created by my computer algorithm (https://folkrnn.org/). I asked it to complete the first four bars of the Tip Top Polka transposed to C minor (M:2/4 K:Cmin c /2 d /2 |: e e e f | c c c A /2 B /2 | c c c e | B 3), and here's what it produced (transposed to B-minor):

X:474
C: folk-rnn
T: Softmax Polka
M:2/4
L:1/8
K:Bmin
S:The RNN properties were thesession_with_repeats with seed 687677 and temperature 1.
S:The prime tokens were M:2/4 K:Cmin c /2 d /2 |: e e e f | c c c A /2 B /2 | c c c e | B 3.
B/2c/2 |:dd de |BB BG/2A/2 |BB Bd |
A3c |dB de |fB BA |GA G>F | G4 :|
|:d2 df|df d/2e/2d/2c/2 |B3c |
f2 ef/2e/2 |d2 df |df df |ec Ac | BA/2G/2 F:|
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Eshed on May 26, 2018, 09:07:51 PM
I've really enjoyed many of the postings here. What a fun happy tune.

Here's my take: https://youtu.be/pu25-8-M9DI
That was a trippy rendition!
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Ellison on May 27, 2018, 11:51:16 AM
Last Sunday, this happened (hope it works)
https://www.facebook.com/100009856022661/videos/629745174030678/ (https://www.facebook.com/100009856022661/videos/629745174030678/)
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Fred on May 27, 2018, 12:01:38 PM
I've really enjoyed many of the postings here. What a fun happy tune.

Here's my take: https://youtu.be/pu25-8-M9DI

I begin with a variation of the Tip Top Polka created by my computer algorithm (https://folkrnn.org/). I asked it to complete the first four bars of the Tip Top Polka transposed to C minor (M:2/4 K:Cmin c /2 d /2 |: e e e f | c c c A /2 B /2 | c c c e | B 3), and here's what it produced (transposed to B-minor):

X:474
C: folk-rnn
T: Softmax Polka
M:2/4
L:1/8
K:Bmin
S:The RNN properties were thesession_with_repeats with seed 687677 and temperature 1.
S:The prime tokens were M:2/4 K:Cmin c /2 d /2 |: e e e f | c c c A /2 B /2 | c c c e | B 3.
B/2c/2 |:dd de |BB BG/2A/2 |BB Bd |
A3c |dB de |fB BA |GA G>F | G4 :|
|:d2 df|df d/2e/2d/2c/2 |B3c |
f2 ef/2e/2 |d2 df |df df |ec Ac | BA/2G/2 F:|

AI will take away composers' jobs!

(In all honesty, that was not half bad although a bit trippy as Eshed has already stated.)
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Fred on May 27, 2018, 12:09:56 PM
Last Sunday, this happened (hope it works)
https://www.facebook.com/100009856022661/videos/629745174030678/ (https://www.facebook.com/100009856022661/videos/629745174030678/)

Don't have an account and sadly can't watch it. Any other source for this?
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Theo on May 27, 2018, 12:20:10 PM
Last Sunday, this happened (hope it works)
https://www.facebook.com/100009856022661/videos/629745174030678/ (https://www.facebook.com/100009856022661/videos/629745174030678/)

Don't have an account and sadly can't watch it. Any other source for this?
[/quote

I have a facebook account and it doesn't work for me either
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Ellison on May 27, 2018, 12:35:21 PM
Nope, sorry, can't fix it.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Theo on May 27, 2018, 12:47:25 PM
Martin, I can’t even see it on your fb page.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Jesse Smith on May 30, 2018, 04:35:00 PM
After working on this all month, here is my eleventh hour (or 30th day) contribution:

https://youtu.be/cSUnwolT648

For whatever reason, I gravitated towards playing this more as a sort of jaunty, loping hornpipe than a lively polka. I've been listening to John Kirkpatrick's Border Morris albums (Sheepskins and The Duck Race) a lot, so I suspect there's an influence there.

It's a lot sloppier than I'd like, and a few things didn't quite come out how I intended, but this is probably as good as it's going to get this month. I'll keep working on it, but I think I've at least succeeded at coming up with an interesting arrangement, rather than just playing the printed notes on the page.

The deeper I get into learning this instrument, the more respect and admiration I have for those professional and amateur players who can consistently rattle off tunes with crisp, precise rhythm every time, without hesitation or misplaced fingers. The more I learn, the more I realize there is to learn!
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Dick Rees on May 30, 2018, 05:00:37 PM
Jesse...

Tip Top!  For 7 months in, that's 7 thumbs up...
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Nick Ray on May 31, 2018, 08:55:53 AM
The deeper I get into learning this instrument, the more respect and admiration I have for those professional and amateur players who can consistently rattle off tunes with crisp, precise rhythm every time, without hesitation or misplaced fingers. The more I learn, the more I realize there is to learn!

I'm with you there Jesse. I'd be depressed about the whole thing if I didn't enjoy learning and playing so much!  ;D
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Thrupenny Bit on May 31, 2018, 09:08:13 AM
Jesse, that was excellent, well done!
Q
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on May 31, 2018, 02:20:37 PM
The deeper I get into learning this instrument, the more respect and admiration I have for those professional and amateur players who can consistently rattle off tunes with crisp, precise rhythm every time, without hesitation or misplaced fingers. The more I learn, the more I realize there is to learn!

I'm with you there Jesse. I'd be depressed about the whole thing if I didn't enjoy learning and playing so much!  ;D

If I can draw your attention to Clive's comment
http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,22270.20.html

All may not be what it seems. (:)
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Jesse Smith on May 31, 2018, 02:45:44 PM
If I can draw your attention to Clive's comment
http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,22270.20.html

All may not be what it seems. (:)

Ah yes, and in fact this was a situation where I certainly would have liked to combine two takes because I nearly fell off the horse on the second lap (but pulled myself back on!), and there were other takes that didn't have that problem, but I felt that my rhythm on the first pass was more solid on this take, and when in doubt make a good first impression and then mess up later in the tune, rather than the other way around, that's my new motto!

But I really do think musicians must have a streak of masochism, because to me the learning process is mostly all about watching the road in front of you get longer as move down it! You become aware of aspects you hadn't even considered before, and suddenly your naive "OK, I've learned where the notes are, how hard could it be?" becomes "Oh, that hard, right..."
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Anahata on May 31, 2018, 03:39:27 PM
Just for fun, I listened to the Stackstead Band's original of this tune, separated out the top line (which is very plain) and the main harmony part (which has most of the twiddly bits) and recorded them separately. It's not the full band arrangement, but it sounds a bit more like it.

The video is of the top part, and the second part was added as sound only.

https://youtu.be/G0kbGUgXZLY
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Clive Williams on May 31, 2018, 10:50:13 PM
Thanks all - I've put up the new tune of the month, but as ever please stick any late contributions on the end here!

Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Jesse Smith on June 01, 2018, 02:00:54 AM
Just for fun, I listened to the Stackstead Band's original of this tune, separated out the top line (which is very plain) and the main harmony part (which has most of the twiddly bits) and recorded them separately. It's not the full band arrangement, but it sounds a bit more like it.
In the video description, you write "What's usually played by other musicians is a mixture of top and middle parts from the band arrangement." Do you think the version played in sessions (and in most of the contributions to this thread) is a "devolved" version of the Bacup tune, or is it possible that both evolved divergently from the same original tune? I suggest that only because when I first heard the "Coconut Dance" tune, I felt that it was different enough from what is called the "Tip Top Polka" to be a separate but related tune. Sort of how the Evesham Stick Dance tune Fanny Frail strikes me as being related to / descended from the Jenny Lind Polka.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for May 2018: The Tip Top Polka
Post by: Anahata on June 01, 2018, 07:47:43 AM
Do you think the version played in sessions (and in most of the contributions to this thread) is a "devolved" version of the Bacup tune, or is it possible that both evolved divergently from the same original tune?

I have always assumed that the Bacup tune was the original, but I could be wrong. (tunearch.org is less helpful than usual on this occasion.)

As for Jenny Lind: Jenny Lind Polka as played in sessions and for Fanny Frail are both based on the original composed around 1840 by Anton Wallerstein.