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Discussions => Tunes => Topic started by: Phil Howard on June 07, 2018, 04:20:32 PM

Title: Princess Royal Bampton
Post by: Phil Howard on June 07, 2018, 04:20:32 PM
I’ve downloaded the dots for Princess Royal Bampton (jig) from the Ring website (https://themorrisring.org/tradition/bampton) where it’s given in G minor.

If I transpose to E minor, I lack the lowest note (G) on my Lily, or both the low G&B on my Pressedwood; playing at the dusty end of the keyboard to get round this both instruments lack the top note (A).

(As an aside, I was surprised to find the highest buttons are set up to the same note in both directions on the Pressedwood: E on the outside row and F# on the inside).

If I transpose to A minor, I lack the high D on my 1 row in C.

Short of having an instrument retuned (or buying another one!) does anyone have any thoughts/tips/a workaround? I’m not massively keen on the idea of B minor…
Title: Re: Princess Royal Bampton
Post by: John MacKenzie (Cugiok) on June 07, 2018, 05:57:23 PM
Seems an odd key. to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yn_P-ufuFs0


SJ
Title: Re: Princess Royal Bampton
Post by: Lester on June 07, 2018, 05:58:55 PM
Seems an odd key. to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yn_P-ufuFs0


SJ

Good video  ;)
But neither are Princess Royal from Bampton
Title: Re: Princess Royal Bampton
Post by: Helena Handcart on June 07, 2018, 06:01:13 PM
I have the attached version in my abc library.  It is transposed to Em and amended to suit D/G melodeon although I appreciate it probably includes notes you don't have.  I can't actaully play it through to check 'cos it's so close to the Longborough in the B and I *can't* afford to get them confused:

X: 1
T:Princess Royal, Bampton (Em)
Q:120
M:2/2
L:1/8
A:Bampton
P:AAB(CB)2
K:EMin
P:A
BA|"eE"G2"dD"F2 "eE"E2"Em"BA|G2FG  E2GB|"C"c2A2 ABcA|"Em"B2BA GFGB|
"dD"A2 G2 "bB"F2""E2|"D"DEDB, "bB"B2"-----------"BA|"Em"G2FE "dD"D2"bB"B2|"Em"E4   "Em"E4||
P:B
"Em"g2g2 g2fg|"D"a2d2   d4|"C"gfed "Am"cBAG|"D"FAD2 "Bm"D4|
"Em"E2EF GFGA|B2B2   "C"e3e|"G"d2B2 "Am"c3c |"Em"B2E2 "Bm"A4|
"Em"BAGF EFGA|B2E2  E2BA|"C"G2FE "Bm"D2B2|"Em"E4   E4||
P:C
M:2/4
B3A|\
M:4/4
L:1/8
G3A F3G|E4 B3A|G3A F3G|E4 B4|c4 A4|A2B2 c2A2|B4 G4|
M:2/4
GFGB|\
M:4/4
L:1/8
A2G2 F2E2|DEDB, G,2BA|G2FE D2B2|E4 E4||


Title: Re: Princess Royal Bampton
Post by: Roger Howard on June 07, 2018, 06:27:32 PM
There's some discussion of this tune in http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php?topic=2986.260. It's a long thread, though!  ;)
Title: Re: Princess Royal Bampton
Post by: Rees on June 07, 2018, 07:40:28 PM
Nice version by Mitch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWtK2CUnyrQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWtK2CUnyrQ)
Title: Re: Princess Royal Bampton
Post by: Jesse Smith on June 07, 2018, 07:44:42 PM
Mally's Cotswold Morris volume 2 has this in a version suitable for D/G melodeon (probably in E Minor). I'm not home now and won't be able to check it until tomorrow. I presume he tweaked the melody to get it to fit into the melodeon's range.

I like the original Gm version you posted but I suspect it's better suited for the fiddle.
Title: Re: Princess Royal Bampton
Post by: brianread on June 07, 2018, 07:45:25 PM
I've always played it starting on a B (on a D/G), which I think corresponds to Helena version above. 

Never really thought about what key it was in!

Now I think about it I am not sure if it is Em or Am.

It uses both my low A and B.

Title: Re: Princess Royal Bampton
Post by: howard mitchell on June 07, 2018, 09:23:02 PM
Nice version by Mitch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWtK2CUnyrQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWtK2CUnyrQ)

Thank you Rees, but I have the low notes to get that low B.
You could take bars 5 and 6 (or just bar 6) up an octave. A technique greatly favoured by Anglo concertina players to keep tunes on the right hand side.

Mitch
Title: Re: Princess Royal Bampton
Post by: Helena Handcart on June 07, 2018, 09:39:49 PM
Mally's Cotswold Morris volume 2 has this in a version suitable for D/G melodeon (probably in E Minor). I'm not home now and won't be able to check it until tomorrow. I presume he tweaked the melody to get it to fit into the melodeon's range.

I like the original Gm version you posted but I suspect it's better suited for the fiddle.

Pretty sure it's not the Bampton version unfortunately, there are many, many Princesses Royal from the various Cotswold traditions.

[Edit: a morris pedant writes... 29 variants in the black book across 13 traditions.  There's a project in there somewhere]
Title: Re: Princess Royal Bampton
Post by: Lester on June 07, 2018, 10:19:28 PM
And that's before you consider the Irish versions and, of course, the Saucy Arethusa
Title: Re: Princess Royal Bampton
Post by: Jesse Smith on June 07, 2018, 10:55:35 PM
Mally's Cotswold Morris volume 2 has this in a version suitable for D/G melodeon (probably in E Minor). I'm not home now and won't be able to check it until tomorrow. I presume he tweaked the melody to get it to fit into the melodeon's range.

Pretty sure it's not the Bampton version unfortunately, there are many, many Princesses Royal from the various Cotswold traditions.
Well, it's labeled as Bampton at least on online table of contents listings. As I said, he's certainly moved things up or down an octave or otherwise adjusted the melody to fit it into the range of the D/G melodeon.
Title: Re: Princess Royal Bampton
Post by: Andy Next Tune on June 07, 2018, 11:56:05 PM
For clarity, here is the Bampton Princess Royal double jig superbly danced and played at Dancing England last year - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAI0ut--gW4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAI0ut--gW4)

IMHO Moving tune sections up or down an octave, or changing the odd note or moving the key is fair game to the solo morris musician playing for a jig.
The challenge with the Ring website is it largely reproduces the 'Black Book' tune notations which reflect how a tune was collected a significant number of decades ago from typically a single musician.

[CAUTION] Thread drift imminent [/CAUTION]
Title: Re: Princess Royal Bampton
Post by: Phil Howard on June 08, 2018, 06:59:02 AM
Thanks for the helpful suggestions (and interesting digressions).

I’ll have a look at moving bars up.

Mitch, I assume you have a low G too? Or do you pop up an octave for it? If only needing the B my Lilly can do it :-)
Title: Re: Princess Royal Bampton
Post by: Thrupenny Bit on June 08, 2018, 08:35:14 AM
Andy makes a very good point.
The Black Book gives a collected version, sometimes not accurately collected either, and many sides have used it as a start and adapted it into their style. Different sides will dance Bampton differently, and there are 3 different Bampton sides in Bampton who also dance differently!

We dance the Bampton version regularly. Frustratingly I can't immediately put my hands on the version my musicians play, but it's in a major key and sits on a 3rd button start melodeon.
Q
Title: Re: Princess Royal Bampton
Post by: Helena Handcart on June 08, 2018, 08:44:25 AM
Agreed, the black book and Ring website are good starting points but apart from the 'it's only what one man saw on one day and recorded' arguments so much of it is just isn't melodoen friendly. The Longborough Princess Royal has a D# in it. Well not when I'm playing it obvs, some note changing and octave jumping later and it sounds pretty good.

'tis the folk process my dears.
Title: Re: Princess Royal Bampton
Post by: Thrupenny Bit on June 08, 2018, 08:53:11 AM
Yep, absolutely Helena.

Just sat down and twiddled a rough version that sounds right as I dance it.
We play it in G, starting on the D note above 3rd button G.
It sits very happily on the box there, and allows some nice little bass runs reflecting a dropping melody C down to G. Well, I did twiddling!, go explore it, it's a lovely little tune!
Q
Title: Re: Princess Royal Bampton
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on June 08, 2018, 09:06:16 AM
Seems an odd key. to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yn_P-ufuFs0


SJ

Great bass playing there.
Title: Re: Princess Royal Bampton
Post by: baz parkes on June 08, 2018, 12:26:21 PM
For clarity, here is the Bampton Princess Royal double jig superbly danced and played at Dancing England last year - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAI0ut--gW4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAI0ut--gW4)
[CAUTION] Thread drift imminent [/CAUTION]

But...but...it's being danced by Bampton...what do they know.... >:E
Title: Re: Princess Royal Bampton
Post by: Thrupenny Bit on June 08, 2018, 06:35:01 PM
Yes Baz.... But *which* Bampton side?
 >:E >:E
Q
Title: Re: Princess Royal Bampton
Post by: Jesse Smith on June 08, 2018, 07:15:25 PM
OK, I'm back home and had a chance to see how Mally arranged this in his book. It is in Em, and for the 6th bar of the A part he offers both the "original" pitches plus an alternate an octave higher, with a note "The lower notes are those of the tune proper. If your instrument is without the low B and G, play the higher notes." It looks like the B part sits nicely in the D/G range without modification.

I like this Bampton version a lot; it's a bit more melancholy than the similar Adderbury version.
Title: Re: Princess Royal Bampton
Post by: Roger Howard on June 08, 2018, 08:29:57 PM
There's your answer.  ;)
Title: Re: Princess Royal Bampton
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on June 08, 2018, 08:49:21 PM
OK, I'm back home and had a chance to see how Mally arranged this in his book. It is in Em, and for the 6th bar of the A part he offers both the "original" pitches plus and alternate an octave higher, with a note "The lower notes are those of the tune proper. If your instrument is without the low B and G, play the higher notes." It looks like the B part sits nicely in the D/G range without modification.

I like this Bampton version a lot; it's a bit more melancholy than the similar Adderbury version.

and really beautiful played as a slowish air
Title: Re: Princess Royal Bampton
Post by: Phil Howard on June 09, 2018, 06:03:58 AM
OK, I'm back home and had a chance to see how Mally arranged this in his book. It is in Em, and for the 6th bar of the A part he offers both the "original" pitches plus an alternate an octave higher, with a note "The lower notes are those of the tune proper. If your instrument is without the low B and G, play the higher notes." It looks like the B part sits nicely in the D/G range without modification.
Thanks, that doesn’t sound bad on my abc player: I’ll try it for real at a time that won’t disturb the family/neighbours!

I like this Bampton version a lot; it's a bit more melancholy than the similar Adderbury version.

Me too, just wish I could play it! (But give me a couple of weeks...)
Title: Re: Princess Royal Bampton
Post by: squeezy on June 10, 2018, 10:40:12 PM
Yes Baz.... But *which* Bampton side?
 >:E >:E
Q

That's the real question ... there are 3 traditional morris teams in Bampton!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAI0ut--gW4 is one

But I prefer Matt Green's authentic Bampton one ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vb5c2sutirM

Title: Re: Princess Royal Bampton
Post by: Thrupenny Bit on June 11, 2018, 07:26:22 AM
Ah Squeezy's picked that one up!!!
Was wondering if anyone had noticed  ;D
Q