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Discussions => Tunes => Topic started by: Thrupenny Bit on December 16, 2018, 08:15:18 PM

Title: Dots for 'Shropshire Militia Hornpipe' and discovery of Buttrey manuscript
Post by: Thrupenny Bit on December 16, 2018, 08:15:18 PM
Hi Gang,
I have just been contacted by a friend trying to get his box playing going again, and he's been listening to JK's Shropshire Militia Hornpipe.
He asked me if I have any dots or abc's and sadly I don't.
I've tried an internet search and can't see it...…
Has anyone out there able to help a lone box player in far off lands?
yours very hopefully
Q

** Please note: I have amended the thread title to reflect the manuscript content.
This thread has moved on and in the process of discovering the tune has managed to unearth a manuscript of 1,000 tunes along with a really fascinating story regarding the author. Several members involved in this thread have now undertaken notating the manuscript.
There is a sister thread relating more to the actual manuscript and those working on it. If you wish to check out this sister thread, go to the ABC 'child' forum attached to this Tunes forum **
best wishes
Q.
Title: Re: Dots or abc for 'Shropshire Militia Hornpipe' anyone?
Post by: Thrupenny Bit on December 17, 2018, 12:46:13 PM
Thanks to some excellent sleuthing by one of us melnetter, I'm now sorted.
Rest easy, stand down peeps  (:)
Q
Title: Re: Dots or abc for 'Shropshire Militia Hornpipe' anyone?
Post by: Julian S on December 17, 2018, 01:04:13 PM
The wonders of t'internet ! And only another thousand tunes in the manuscript...John Buttrey Ms for those interested.
I shall look forward to adding this one to my local tune repertoire when my swollen finger (due to playing too many carols I reckon) recovers. And just when I've got French session this evening, dance practice tomorrow, carols on Thursday...

J
Title: Re: Dots or abc for 'Shropshire Militia Hornpipe' anyone?
Post by: Thrupenny Bit on December 17, 2018, 01:29:11 PM
Oh blimey..... I'm not going to notate all that lot!
Well..... Not today  ;)
Thanks super sleuth!
Q
Title: Re: Dots or abc for 'Shropshire Militia Hornpipe' anyone?
Post by: pbsalt on December 17, 2018, 04:42:19 PM
Here's  the url for anyone else intrigued by this
https://buttreymilitarysocialtunes1800.wordpress.com/2018/11/27/all-961-melodies-now-posted/
Paul
Title: Re: Dots or abc for 'Shropshire Militia Hornpipe' anyone?
Post by: Pete Dunk on December 17, 2018, 08:19:14 PM
Oh blimey..... I'm not going to notate all that lot!

I think I can feel another Village Music Project epic transcription session coming on!  :o
Title: Re: Dots or abc for 'Shropshire Militia Hornpipe' anyone?
Post by: Thrupenny Bit on December 17, 2018, 09:13:22 PM
Well...!!
I put the tune into abcexplorer for my friend who is really pleased for the tune and also impressed at the networking that is Melnet.

I've also looked at the manuscript. John Buttrey was a fascinating person, joining the 34th Regiment in 1797 serving in South Africa then India getting discharge and then emigrating to Canada with his manuscript. What I find wonderful is this manuscript of tunes and drawing was passed down the family until it was microfiched in the National Archives, Ottowa in 1972. Just lovely the family had it.
Anyway.... There's a lot of tunes here, and a great story too.
Take a read....
Q
Title: Re: Dots or abc for 'Shropshire Militia Hornpipe' anyone?
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on December 17, 2018, 10:01:27 PM
Oh blimey..... I'm not going to notate all that lot!

I think I can feel another Village Music Project epic transcription session coming on!  :o

I had to do some. Couldn't help myself. It's like a drug.
Title: Re: Dots or abc for 'Shropshire Militia Hornpipe' anyone?
Post by: Pete Dunk on December 17, 2018, 11:56:00 PM
The VMP will welcome you with open arms Greg, especially with the thick end of a thousand tunes to do!

This is actually very exciting because the VMPs work has largely been done, all known English collections have been transcribed, published or are inaccessible in private collections.
Title: Re: Dots or abc for 'Shropshire Militia Hornpipe' anyone?
Post by: Pete Dunk on December 18, 2018, 12:34:49 AM
Well...!!
I put the tune into abcexplorer for my friend who is really pleased for the tune and also impressed at the networking that is Melnet.

So, you're not sharing Q? Hmm?
Title: Re: Dots or abc for 'Shropshire Militia Hornpipe' anyone?
Post by: Pete Dunk on December 18, 2018, 01:08:30 AM
Here's my take on this tune.

X:23
T:Shropshire Militia Hornpipe
M:C|
L:1/8
%%titlefont Helvetica, 22
%%subtitlefont Helvetica,16
%%composerfont Helvetica
%%partsfont Arial, 20
%%partsbox
%%gchordfont Arial, 16
%%barnumbers 1
%%MIDI program 73 % flute
Q:1/2=80
K:D
AG|FDFA dfed|cgec AGFE|FAdf gfed|c2A2A2A>G|FDFA dfed|
cgec AGFE|FdBG FAEG|F2D2D2::Ad|dAdf gfed|eAce gfdc|
dcBA Ffed|c2A2A2 A>G|FDFA dfed|dcBA GFEC|DdBG FAEG|
F2D2D2::AG|FGEF DFAd|cdBc Aceg|fdef gfed|c2A2A3A|
BdAd GdFd|BdAd GdFd|BdBG FAGE|F2D2D2:|


Edit: Correct typo and remove duplicate bars in the last line - cheers Steve!

Title: Re: Dots or abc for 'Shropshire Militia Hornpipe' anyone?
Post by: Roger Hare on December 18, 2018, 05:34:33 AM
https://buttreymilitarysocialtunes1800.wordpress.com/2018/11/27/all-961-melodies-now-posted/

Oh, joy! What a fabulous resource!!! I'm going to transcribe a couple at random to see what I get
(how I wish I could sight-read...).

I just had a quick look at the web site, and apart from  the tunes themselves, one of the delights of
this manuscript is the small drawings interspersed with many of the scores. The amount of work that
must have been undertaken here is phenomenal (that is, the work undertaken by both the folks who
created the original MS and drawings, and the team who are in the process of resurrecting this
fabulous collection...).

Roger
Title: Re: Dots or abc for 'Shropshire Militia Hornpipe' anyone?
Post by: Julian S on December 18, 2018, 07:30:58 AM
I only had time to scan through the ms after I unearthed it yesterday - just on the hunt for the tune in question. Luckily a review of the JK album including the tune mentioned John Buttrey as the source, and t'internet quickly put me on the track to Canada...where Buttrey ended up with his book of tunes.
Fascinating story behind the tune book - and lots of hard work has been undertaken by the Canadian project enabling us to look at it . (I will definitely send my personal vote of thanks !)

J
Title: Re: Dots or abc for 'Shropshire Militia Hornpipe' anyone?
Post by: Thrupenny Bit on December 18, 2018, 08:06:43 AM
Here's my take

X:1
T:Shropshire Militia Hornpipe
C: Buttrey Military & Social Tunes Manuscripts, 1790 - 1840
z: transposed by Quinton Cumbes 17.12.2018
M:2/2
L:1/8
Q:1/2=80
K:D
AG|FDFA dfed|cgec AGFE|FAdf gfed|c2A2A2A>G|
FDFA dfed|cgec AGFE|FdBG FAEG|F2D2D2:|
Ad|dAdf afed|eAce afdc|dcBA Ffed|c2A2A2A>G|
FDFA dfed|dcBA GFEC|DdBG FAEG |F2D2D2:|
AG|FGEF DFAd|cdBc Aceg|fdef gfed|c2A2A3A|
BdAd GdFd|BdAd GdFd|BdBG FAEG|F2D2D2:|
W:
W: John Buttrey joined 34th Regiment in Lincoln 1797 as drummer ( fifer) aged 13. He served
W:
W: in South Afria & India for 19 years, gunshot in India 1805 then discharged at Landguage
W:
W: Fort England 12th July 1814. He emigrated to Canada in 1849 with his manuscripts. He died in
W:
W: 1854, manuscripts kept in the family unti being micsofilched at National Archives, Ottowa 1972.


As I thought it might be a one-off tune, have added some notes. I quite like remembering things about a tune.

Pete - I wasn't sure of the situation when copying a tune from a manuscript like this, hence me not sharing. Therefore following your lead, this is my take!
Cheers
Q
Title: Re: Dots or abc for 'Shropshire Militia Hornpipe' anyone?
Post by: Thrupenny Bit on December 18, 2018, 08:27:40 AM
I'd just like to emphasise, this is all due to Julian's digging around after I'd emailed him wondering if he knew the tune.
He deserves the recognition for unearthing the archive!
Good job done mate  (:)
Q
Title: Re: Dots or abc for 'Shropshire Militia Hornpipe' anyone?
Post by: Anahata on December 18, 2018, 09:01:50 AM
Great stuff. Thanks for the ABCs.

I've filled in the contact form on the Buttrey site to ask about putting them on the VMP.
My personal interest: I'm actually hosting the VMP site now. I don't want any copyright infringements!
Title: Re: Dots or abc for 'Shropshire Militia Hornpipe' anyone?
Post by: Thrupenny Bit on December 18, 2018, 09:19:15 AM
Ummm.... Depending on Anahata's reply, Pete, are you serious about a project?
I have no idea what it might entail....
Q
Title: Re: Dots or abc for 'Shropshire Militia Hornpipe' anyone?
Post by: Pete Dunk on December 18, 2018, 03:25:13 PM
I brought it to the attention of Chris Partington of the VMP and he's looking into it, we'll see what transpires.
Title: Re: Dots or abc for 'Shropshire Militia Hornpipe' anyone?
Post by: Thrupenny Bit on December 18, 2018, 03:47:27 PM
Thanks Pete
Q
Title: Re: Dots or abc for 'Shropshire Militia Hornpipe' anyone?
Post by: Anahata on December 18, 2018, 11:22:49 PM
Nice reply from Sandra Cameron:

Hello Anahata,

So glad you found the Buttrey site.  The whole purpose of the site is to let
musicians everywhere have access to the music, not just the dedicated fifers who
previously had access to it, so yes, please make ABC files if you wish. (I am
not familiar with this type of file but I see that is what your members use.)

From your forum, it seems some of your members are as excited about the music as
some of the Canadian fife and old time musicians were when they found the music.
I was very fortunate to have considerable interest from Fort York in Toronto who
were able to help considerably with tracking down military records etc.

Sandra Cameron
Owner of the Buttrey Manuscript
Previously Owner, Cameron Web Designs
Title: Re: Dots or abc for 'Shropshire Militia Hornpipe' anyone?
Post by: Julian S on December 19, 2018, 07:50:01 AM
I am really pleased about this Anahata...great outcome of my websearch following up Qs enquiry (thanks Q - I had no idea what I'd dig out !)
I have emailed Ian Bell at the Ontario Traditional Music Library to say 'thanks' as well - the site provided the necessary signpost and background info.
I will definitely be adding the Shropshire Militia HP to our band repertoire, seems apt as we often play at Blists Hill Victorian town. And what other great tunes are to be found ?

J

Title: Re: Dots or abc for 'Shropshire Militia Hornpipe' anyone?
Post by: Thrupenny Bit on December 19, 2018, 09:49:48 AM
Yes, thanks Anahata, that is a lovely reply to your enquiry.
Pete has been in contact with the Village Music Project, so when he has a reply we can take stock.
As I understand it, Pete has been involved with similar projects before so his advice and direction will be much appreciated.
Cheers
Q
Title: Re: Dots or abc for 'Shropshire Militia Hornpipe' anyone?
Post by: Steve_freereeder on December 19, 2018, 10:01:51 AM
Yes, thanks Anahata, that is a lovely reply to your enquiry.
Pete has been in contact with the Village Music Project, so when he has a reply we can take stock.
That is indeed good news.  (:)

I'm happy to take part in sharing some of the encoding to ABC.
Title: Re: Dots or abc for 'Shropshire Militia Hornpipe' anyone?
Post by: Thrupenny Bit on December 19, 2018, 10:21:54 AM
Thanks Steve.
I presume we need to simply organise ourselves so we don't all encode the same tunes!
Q
Title: Re: Dots or abc for 'Shropshire Militia Hornpipe' anyone?
Post by: Pete Dunk on December 19, 2018, 11:00:15 AM
Each transcriber is given a block of tunes to work on by Chris P. Once you've finished your block you send your ABC file back to Chris for proofreading and he sends you another block of tunes to transcribe. This continues until the job is completed. I'll let Chris know that we have new volunteers, he may comment in this thread as he is a member here.
Title: Re: Dots or abc for 'Shropshire Militia Hornpipe' anyone?
Post by: Steve_freereeder on December 19, 2018, 11:51:01 AM
Each transcriber is given a block of tunes to work on by Chris P. Once you've finished your block you send your ABC file back to Chris for proofreading and he sends you another block of tunes to transcribe. This continues until the job is completed....
Sounds good to me. Put me on the list.  (:)
Title: Re: Dots or abc for 'Shropshire Militia Hornpipe' anyone?
Post by: Thrupenny Bit on December 19, 2018, 11:56:42 AM
Thanks Pete, I'm up for it too, please put my name forward.
Cheers
Q
Title: Re: Dots or abc for 'Shropshire Militia Hornpipe' anyone?
Post by: Roger Hare on December 19, 2018, 01:39:03 PM
Each transcriber is given a block of tunes to work on by Chris P. Once you've finished your block you send your ABC file back to Chris for proofreading and he sends you another block of tunes to transcribe. This continues until the job is completed...

Well now, I'm already transcribing a few of these tunes into ABC for my own private use. So far, I'm only transcribing
tunes for which a 'modern' transcription appears in the indexed lists (downloadable as a PDF by right-clicking on the image).
The tunes for which this has been done appear to be in the minority so far, and I don't have the confidence to interpret
and transcribe from the facsimiles of hand-written pages from the original MS which also appear in the indexed lists.

I've started at No. 1 [Conitz(?) - A Retreat], and will just plug on till I get bored. I'm transcribing in my own slightly
idiosyncratic ABC coding 'style', but if it would be useful/helpful, I'll be more than happy to donate whatever I have to
the pool if and when such a project gets off the ground.

Roger
Title: Re: Dots or abc for 'Shropshire Militia Hornpipe' anyone?
Post by: Anahata on December 19, 2018, 05:50:48 PM
It's worth reading the notes on the VMP web site about how the ABC files are made, in respect of editorial decisions and the ABC protocol:
https://www.village-music-project.org.uk/?page_id=17

That page is written to address users i.e. explains how it's been done.
I don't know if there's a more prescriptive document for the benefit of coders. No doubt Pete Dunk or Chris Partington (both of whom are melnet members) can advise.
Title: Re: Dots or abc for 'Shropshire Militia Hornpipe' anyone?
Post by: Pete Dunk on December 19, 2018, 10:47:32 PM
I wrote a long and complex reply to this post and hit 'Preview' without thinking. It messed up of course and now it is lost forever. I am way too stressed out and tired to reply again. Ah me!
Title: Re: Dots or abc for 'Shropshire Militia Hornpipe' anyone?
Post by: Steve Buss on December 20, 2018, 03:05:53 PM
Many thanks to those who helped me with this tune, Thrupenny bit & Julian S especially, sounds like it may have started something! Now I have to learn it, don't I? Ah well, something do during these dark winter nights  :||:
Title: Re: Dots or abc for 'Shropshire Militia Hornpipe' anyone?
Post by: Thrupenny Bit on December 20, 2018, 03:11:07 PM
Hi Steve,
Welcome aboard the Mad House  ;D
Yes this is *all* you fault so you do need to learn it. I will be testing you next time we catch up  >:E
take care
Q
Title: Re: Dots or abc for 'Shropshire Militia Hornpipe' anyone?
Post by: Pete Dunk on December 20, 2018, 03:47:17 PM
I don't know if there's a more prescriptive document for the benefit of coders. No doubt Pete Dunk or Chris Partington (both of whom are melnet members) can advise.

Here's a link to an older version of the VMP Modus Operandii (https://web.archive.org/web/20150403214313/http://www.village-music-project.org.uk:80/protocol.htm)
Some of the information in the old document is outdated as the rules of ABC usage and syntax have been changed.
Title: Re: Dots or abc for 'Shropshire Militia Hornpipe' anyone?
Post by: Julian S on December 20, 2018, 04:29:57 PM
Many thanks to those who helped me with this tune, Thrupenny bit & Julian S especially, sounds like it may have started something! Now I have to learn it, don't I? Ah well, something do during these dark winter nights  :||:

Thanks Steve. Guess what I have been playing this aft - two slightly different versions already...so it'll be interesting to see how it ends up (particularly when our fiddler gets his stamp on it as well ::))

And I also had a scan through the index of all the other tunes...hours of fun !

J
Title: Re: Dots or abc for 'Shropshire Militia Hornpipe' anyone?
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on December 20, 2018, 06:01:05 PM

...And I also had a scan through the index of all the other tunes...hours of fun !


More like a lifetime, unless you learn tunes quicker than me  (:)
Title: Re: Dots or abc for 'Shropshire Militia Hornpipe' anyone?
Post by: Roger Hare on December 21, 2018, 06:16:59 AM
Slight thread-drift kicking in...

...the notes on the VMP web site about how the ABC files are made...
https://www.village-music-project.org.uk/?page_id=17..

Thank you - I hadn't spotted that. Helpful. My SOPs are not radically different from that. Remembering
that I'm producing scores primarily for my own private use, the two main differences are:

1) I use spaces generously to produce an 'easily readable' ABC script, and tend to explicitly specify
    opening and closing repeat markers (ie: |: . . . :| rather than ::
2) I (generally) restrict myself to the sub-set X:, T:, C:, M:, L:, Q:, R:, P:, K:, P:, w:, W: (usually)
    in that order. I tend to use comments (leading %) in place of all t'others (N:, D:, B:, Z:, O:, H:,
    etc.).

I use commands to the abc2midi and abc2ps programs as required (eg: I use a sans-serif font as
default). These can be global or local in scope, as required.

Why? Because this approach produces a simple, uncluttered, simple score - which I really, really need.
All t'other information will be there, it's just hidden from view.
Title: Re: Dots or abc for 'Shropshire Militia Hornpipe' anyone?
Post by: Pete Dunk on December 21, 2018, 12:07:36 PM
Slight thread-drift kicking in...

To avoid any further thread-drift I've started a new topic in the ABC forum (http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php?topic=23252.new#new).