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Discussions => Tune of the Month => Topic started by: Clive Williams on March 01, 2019, 06:21:23 AM

Title: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Clive Williams on March 01, 2019, 06:21:23 AM
Well, that's one of the more comprehensive victories we've seen in a long time. As suggested by Arty,  “Origin of the World”  by Dave Shepherd...here played by Paul Young in B minor on a D/G Pokerwork https://youtu.be/2M95cuhjKtA

Here's some E minor ABC (thanks Greg) which it's playable in too (and probably a bit easier)

Code: [Select]
X:1
T:The Origin Of The World
R:mazurka
M:3/4
L:1/8
K:Emin
|: Bc BA FG | E2-EEFG | Ac cc BA | B2-BB BA |
Bc BA FG | E2-EE FG | CE GC EG | F2 FF GF |
EC A,C EC | D2 DB, G,B, | EC G,C EC | D2 D2 EF |
G2 GA-AB | B2-BA GA | AA AG ED | E2 E4 :|
|: E2 EB, EF | G2 GF GB | A2 AB-BA | D4 D2 |
E2 EB, EF | G2 GF GB | A2 AB-BA | DE GA BA |
ec AE CA, | dBG DB,G, | cG EC G,E, | F,A, DF AF |
G2 GA-AB | B2 BA GA | AA AG ED | E2 E4 :|

and the B minor version is

Code: [Select]
X:1
T:The Origin Of The World
R:mazurka
M:3/4
L:1/8
K:Bmin
|: fg fe cd | B2-BBcd | eg gg fe | f2-ff fe |
fg fe cd | B2-BB cd | GB dG Bd | c2 cc dc |
BG EG BG | A2 AF DF | BG DG BG | A2 A2 Bc |
d2 de-ef | f2-fe de | ee ed BA | B2 B4 :|
|: B2 BF Bc | d2 dc df | e2 ef-fe | A4 A2 |
B2 BF Bc | d2 dc df | e2 ef-fe | AB de fe |
bg eB GE | afd AFD | gd BG DB, | CE Ac ec |
d2 de-ef | f2 fe de | ee ed BA | B2 B4 :|

Happy playing! Not played this one myself, so got some learning to do!
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Hugh Taylor on March 01, 2019, 09:55:07 AM
A great tune, but following my recent thread on quavers grouped in 2's or 3's, I would welcome some definitive abc rather than peoples transcriptions from other peoples playing. Is it possible for Clive to ask Dave for his music in Gm?
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Fred on March 01, 2019, 11:45:03 AM
A great tune, but following my recent thread on quavers grouped in 2's or 3's, I would welcome some definitive abc rather than peoples transcriptions from other peoples playing. Is it possible for Clive to ask Dave for his music in Gm?

This is the Gm version that I found saved on my harddrive:

Code: [Select]
X: 1
T: The Origin Of The World
R: mazurka
M: 3/4
L: 1/8
K: Gmin
|: de dc AB | G2-GGAB | ce ee dc | d2-dd dc |
de dc AB | G2-GG AB | EG BE GB | A2 AA BA |
GE CE GE | F2 FD B,D | GE B,E GE | F2 F2 GA |
B2 Bc-cd | d2-dc Bc | cc cB GF | G2 G4 :|
|: G2 GD GA | B2 BA Bd | c2 cd-dc | F4 F2 |
G2 GD GA | B2 BA Bd | c2 cd-dc | FG Bc dc |
ge cG EC | fdB FDB, | eB GE B,G, | A,C FA cA |
B2 Bc-cd | d2 dc Bc | cc cB GF | G2 G4 :|

Mind you, I have no idea whether or not this is any different than the versions posted by Clive and I'm currently too lazy to transpose and compare note by note. ;)
Maybe it helps you still.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Clive Williams on March 01, 2019, 11:59:01 AM
A great tune, but following my recent thread on quavers grouped in 2's or 3's, I would welcome some definitive abc rather than peoples transcriptions from other peoples playing. Is it possible for Clive to ask Dave for his music in Gm?

I expect Dave's definitive version will be in one of his Blowzabella tune books, New Tunes for Dancing most likely.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Hugh Taylor on March 01, 2019, 12:04:41 PM
I expect Dave's definitive version will be in one of his Blowzabella tune books, New Tunes for Dancing most likely.

No it isn't Clive as I've already looked in there, but I think Julian S said that it was in their 'More Scores' book which I don't have.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on March 01, 2019, 01:15:46 PM
I expect Dave's definitive version will be in one of his Blowzabella tune books, New Tunes for Dancing most likely.

No it isn't Clive as I've already looked in there, but I think Julian S said that it was in their 'More Scores' book which I don't have.

pdf is only £5, hard copy £12

http://blowzabella.co.uk/shop#
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Hugh Taylor on March 01, 2019, 05:36:48 PM
pdf is only £5, hard copy £12


I can't seem to find how to buy a pdf copy.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Helena Handcart on March 01, 2019, 05:42:04 PM
...but I think Julian S said that it was in their 'More Scores' book which I don't have.

It is indeed. Page 30. Looking at it now - which doubtless I will regret and go scuttling back to the Em version.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Gena Crisman on March 01, 2019, 06:03:50 PM
I can't seem to find how to buy a pdf copy.

The link to do so is actually directly on the linked shop webpage (http://blowzabella.co.uk/shop#), just under the 'more scores' pictures- just keep scrolling down, should be there on the right. Then scroll back up if it doesn't and handle checking out your cart, which it will show at the top. Worked for me, etc.

I can add, if it helps, that none of the notes are grouped in any 'special' ways - it's all pairs of quavers at most Also, none of the chords as written straddle a beat, even if that seems to be what's happening in performance.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: playandteach on March 01, 2019, 07:08:33 PM
Yet again, I'm not happy with what I'm doing with the left hand. I can play it, but it either dominates the tune, or is plain and unwieldy at the same time. Maybe it's time for a lesson or two. Or a new box. Or both.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Hugh Taylor on March 01, 2019, 07:46:35 PM
Thanks Gena, I have it now.
The bar that I was asking about - B10 - is scored as 3 pairs of 2 quavers, the same as the others, so I've no idea where the 2 pairs of three quavers came from.
I think its important to always go back to the original source of a tune wherever possible, trad or not, before deciding how you're going to play it. The problem with The Session.org and other sites is that people transcribe what they think is being played, and often important nuances get lost. 'William Taylors Table Top Hornpipe' is a classic example.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Gena Crisman on March 01, 2019, 11:00:17 PM
Yet again, I'm not happy with what I'm doing with the left hand. I can play it, but it either dominates the tune, or is plain and unwieldy at the same time. Maybe it's time for a lesson or two. Or a new box. Or both.

What options do you have on your bass end? The main reason I went the extra mile to fit not just a 3rds stop but also a low fundamental stop to my Black Pearl was to make it much better behaved for block chords. Do you know if your box has big bass reeds? Maybe there's harmless way to silence them for a bit to see if you like that better.

Also,

Having transposed Blowz's book copy to Bm, I can say that if you were to just copy the way Paul Young plays it, or follow the posted ABCs, you won't have been steered far wrong.

Also, dear viewer, you might wonder why all us DG players are talking about playing it in Bm. Bm is perhaps a bit of an unusual key for DG players to play in, but it's a lot of fun (to me, at least!) to figure out how the box works when played like this. Bm is the relative minor of D major, meaning it's made out of all the same notes that can be found on your D row, the outside row. Origin of the World is in G natural minor originally, which can be a bit of an ask, even for a 2.5 row DG box, as they need to be set up for it. We're left with transposing options of Am, Em and Bm as being the most likely to be comfortable to play for us.

For a 2 row player, Am can be written off because it's going to want a lot of F natural notes / chords we normally don't have, as A natural minor is actually the relative minor of C major - a row we don't really have, leaving the options of Em and Bm - the relative minor keys of G and D. However, if you have a 2.5 row 'super' DG layout, with A/G chord reversals and an F chord, with a low F natural and C natural note, A minor may be a good transposition for you to pick!

In the case of this tune, there are several long arpeggios - especially in the B section. If we wanted to play in E min, we would either have to have a low G scale and dodge a really low E note (and play a G chord instead of an Em chord it's a C chord, so nbd), or, be willing to play all the very way up at the top of the box - it's either too high or too low. Choosing Bm however makes the tune sit more centrally, with it only going as low as one avoidable low B note (the same part of the tune you avoid when playing low in Em) and hits upper octave b at its highest - this means it's playable on even a bog standard pokerwork, as Paul Young demonstrates in Clive's youtube link in the first post, and doesn't end up too squeaky. In terms of chords, Bm is sort of a strange key to play in because you actually can't make a F#m out of anything on your left hand side. F#m is the v chord for Bm, which being part of the 3 chord trick, you'd expect it to be pretty important, but, turns out, it's not as big a deal for minor tunes. Case in point, the (as written) chord accompaniment of this tune never actually asks for a v chord, so, not having F#m doesn't actually compromise the accompaniment.

So, in theory, playing it in Bm may be the 'best' compromise for us DG players. But, if you've never done it before, it can be quite the finger puzzle. While all the notes are on the D row, in order to accompany yourself you will find you have to cross row quite a bit. For example, the B note on your D row is on the draw, but your Bm chord (or Bm7 without a 3rd stop) is only on the press, and the next note in the scale, C#, is obviously only on the D row so you have to cross row right away for that. You'll find yourself moving from row to row a lot to find harmony. The A chord and Em chord are your tension chords in this scale, so, you'll be playing A major under pull As on your G row and pull C#s of your D row, and E minor under pull Bs on your D row but swapping over again so you can use a push G major under a B on your G row. There's really very little static fingering, as if you want to change the chord, you may have to play that section in an entirely different way.

Best of luck!

edit - This (wonderful) performance (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBX8Jx6tMOM) by Paul Young and Sarah Loughran that was linked in the voting thread is being played in Am on Paul's 2.5 row DG, if that wets anyone's appetite. Well, I assume it's in Am, it's being played as if it was in Am on a DG. Perhaps this is how Andy Cutting plays it, but using a CF.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on March 01, 2019, 11:52:40 PM
Thanks Gena, I have it now.
The bar that I was asking about - B10 - is scored as 3 pairs of 2 quavers, the same as the others, so I've no idea where the 2 pairs of three quavers came from.
I think its important to always go back to the original source of a tune wherever possible, trad or not, before deciding how you're going to play it. The problem with The Session.org and other sites is that people transcribe what they think is being played, and often important nuances get lost. 'William Taylors Table Top Hornpipe' is a classic example.

I would still advise that the only to play bar 10 correctly (and bars 9 and 11, come to that) is to listen to how it is played by by Dave Shepherd. The phrasing is very distinctive and is common to all three of those bars. To listen to his playing is the best way to go back to the source, not to consult transcriptions (which doesn't mean they are not useful in other ways).

Or, is that what you meant?
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Anahata on March 02, 2019, 12:07:19 AM
What options do you have on your bass end? The main reason I went the extra mile to fit not just a 3rds stop but also a low fundamental stop to my Black Pearl was to make it much better behaved for block chords.

Especially taking the thirds out, because I find I can often use the "chord " (now bare 5ths) buttons by themselves to accompany a tune all the way through, then add the bass notes next time which brings a huge and satisfying thickening of texture. Three note chords by themselves don't always work as well.

Quote
F#m is the v chord for Bm, which being part of the 3 chord trick, you'd expect it to be pretty important, but, turns out, it's not as big a deal for minor tunes.
... because these are modal (Aeolian or Dorian) minor tunes, which don't usually fit the standard I-IV-V pattern.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: playandteach on March 02, 2019, 12:11:20 AM
I think the issue of beaming quavers is not one to lose sleep over. Every individual can decide where to place accents. The only right reason for beaming in 2 sets of 3 is if the harmony lines up that way. Even then it could be a syncopation (that's not the real word for it, but it's one that I think we all understand) rather than a hemiola (which of course is not a word known by all, but just means an implied passing change of metre).
All of which can be summed up as, do whatever feels right, or quirky as you see fit.
I think the most likely reason for the beaming choice is that 'oh, look we've got the same 3 notes in a different octave, why don't we reflect that in the notation'.
Looking forward to learning this, but still unhappy with my left hand playing.
Good month ahead.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: playandteach on March 02, 2019, 12:16:56 AM
What options do you have on your bass end? The main reason I went the extra mile to fit not just a 3rds stop but also a low fundamental stop to my Black Pearl was to make it much better behaved for block chords.

Especially taking the thirds out, because I find I can often use the "chord " (now bare 5ths) buttons by themselves to accompany a tune all the way through, then add the bass notes next time which brings a huge and satisfying thickening of texture.

Quote
F#m is the v chord for Bm, which being part of the 3 chord trick, you'd expect it to be pretty important, but, turns out, it's not as big a deal for minor tunes.
... because these are modal (Aeolian or Dorian) minor tunes, which don't usually fit the standard I-IV-V pattern.
I don't think the problem is chord choice as I'm quite happy working stuff like that out. It's much more to do with note length, bass or chord or both, regular pattern or changing pattern, and voicing  - over which I don't have much say. The  bass voice (Gena) is something I might consider. But then again you can do no wrong in my opinion at the moment.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Mcgrooger on March 02, 2019, 08:17:29 AM
FWIW here is my version. I've played it in Bm following Paul Young's melodeon only video and Gena's abc - so thank you both. I played it on my Saltarelle Pastourelle III.
I'm sure some of the discussion in the thread is really interesting and useful and I'll read through it all later. But shouldn't it be in TOTM Chat?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM_N7q-2R9U
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Ellisteph on March 02, 2019, 09:31:39 AM
FWIW here is my version. I've played it in Bm following Paul Young's melodeon only video and Gena's abc - so thank you both. I played it on my Saltarelle Pastourelle III.
I'm sure some of the discussion in the thread is really interesting and useful and I'll read through it all later. But shouldn't it be in TOTM Chat?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM_N7q-2R9U
Excellent. I had already dismissed Bm as being too tricky but you seem to have taken in your stride. I'm still going to try Gm on my C/F (haven't even started yet) - hopefully I'll have all the notes. Time to get going then!
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Mcgrooger on March 02, 2019, 09:39:59 AM
Thank you for that, E. I did have a bit of a go at playing it in Am which is the equivalent of what you'd be doing and what Andy Cutting seems to do but I found it completely impossible. I think there were notes I'm missing but even if I had 'em I think I'd have still found it impossible. I quite like Bm.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Hugh Taylor on March 02, 2019, 09:58:28 AM
Good playing Mcgrooger!

I thought that TOTM Chat was about recording techniques and the like.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Mcgrooger on March 02, 2019, 12:29:26 PM
I s'pose you're right H if the chat is about how to play the tune, what key etc. 28 more recordings to come then (I didn't vote for it). Btw, however those quavers are written - groups of 2 or 3, the little perishers are murder to get under the fingers which is why I kept missing the LH chords I wanted to play in the next couple of bars - I was still traumatised by the arpeggios! :o
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Jackhumphreys on March 02, 2019, 01:28:41 PM
Just checking the melnet abc against the presumably definitive version in the book  "Blowzabella: More Scores"
There are quite a few differences in  rhythm.  The book version does not have the ties shown in the melnet abc: separate quavers instead.    There are also minims at the start of bars 4,8,12, 16.
So the melnet abc probably represents an interpretation rather than the composer's version.

More importantly,  the melody differs in bar 8 of the B music, where the BZB book's   G minor score notes are FGACDF
Whereas the melnet abc  G minor equivalent would be  FG BC DC.   The authentic tune has a different rising shape leading up to the top note of the arpeggio in the next bar.
Just thought that if we're busy learning this, we might as well respect DS's intentions.





Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on March 02, 2019, 01:56:03 PM

Just thought that if we're busy learning this, we might as well respect DS's intentions.

I'm sure Mr Shepherd is like the rest of us and plays it how he feels on the day and varies it each time through. It's a folk dance tune, not classical music. I haven't got the Blowzabella dots but I would put money on him not playing   as they're notated.

I know he got arsey, once, about Albert's Table Top, but the way it's played for morris is quite a long way, harmonically, from what he plays, himself and he thought it lacked something as a result.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Jackhumphreys on March 02, 2019, 03:25:41 PM
Here's Dave Shepherd playing the tune, so we can hear how it compares with the  melnet abc and with the Blowzabella book score:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYsnbonolUE
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Gena Crisman on March 02, 2019, 04:03:34 PM
... the little perishers are murder to get under the fingers which is why I kept missing the LH chords I wanted to play in the next couple of bars - I was still traumatised by the arpeggios! :o

Haha, I was watching your video and was thinking to myself, oh, very well done on those arpeggios! Those long A ones are a killer to get right. Very well played!
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: folkbluesnbeyond on March 02, 2019, 04:36:35 PM
An 'unauthorised' version: A couple of times without repeats and with an out-take, (which I might prefer!) A challenge to play in first position minor key, (rarely explored by me in the past). The BbEb 'chocolate' box puts it into Gm.

The tune has grown on me since spending time with it, (but not sufficiently for double As and Bs to hold attention- perhaps to do with me rather than the tune). Still feels somewhat convoluted, but that may be the writer's style/intention.

https://youtu.be/XVOrE05Tkpk

All the best

Bill
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on March 02, 2019, 05:34:17 PM
and here, again, with Blowzabella.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5D9tl-c1yAw
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: playandteach on March 02, 2019, 08:01:45 PM
And this confirms bar 9 as Jack has it, but I confess I'll be playing slightly different notes. I'm replacing the A in that bar with a Bb (in G minor talk). It's how I first heard it (mis-heard it might be better said). But then again I also intend to change the rhythm a bit.
Still an unhappy man about the left hand, though this youtube version gives unequivocal bass notes.
I do like the tune.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: playandteach on March 03, 2019, 12:00:04 PM
So here is that first playing of Origin of the World (https://youtu.be/WFIQHYRGhFs). In the spirit of uploading something whenever possible, and improving it if I have time (and skill). That way I can start to listen to the other recordings (which I'm loathe to do until I have an idea of how to play it for myself).
Switched video editor to photos in windows 10, but that doesn't let me reduce the original volume. Hopefully video quality will be better.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Gena Crisman on March 03, 2019, 09:02:30 PM
Not sure about the chord for bar 4 of the B music, what do you think?

The video looks good, I wouldn't worry about reducing the original volume. If anything, I find people end up putting up videos that are too quiet, anyway. The volume seems good to me!
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: playandteach on March 03, 2019, 09:11:36 PM
I think I was intending to play a G chord for the first two beats, then a D chord (this is in E minor on a GC box). I didn't like having a whole bar of D as it didn't get the upbeat across the bar properly without a chord change. I was playing it on the DG as I'm still in a quandry about the other box, whether it's the overpowering nature against the 2 voice, or the voicings of the chords I haven't decided.
The GC left hand feels more out of the way. I don't have third options on the GC, which might make the G chord a bit bare with a D in the tune too.
The other long term wish list would be extra bass notes (not necessarily chords). I know others have this option.
I'll go back and listen to my recording to see if I can hear it with fresh ears.

EDIT Just listened (and spotted a wrong note in the first arpeggio bar, whoops). It is the bareness of the chord - there are only 2 notes. I don't really mind this, but perhaps in the context of the min7th chords around it maybe I could add the B in the right hand.
EDIT Nope, that B sounded lame. I think the answer is to put a D (5th chord) in as you were probably expecting, and then using the A (5) chord to get me over the barline back to Em. All GC talk. I did think of putting it in DG talk too, but there are too many D and A chords jumping about the page.

Also noticed how stiff it is as a recording. I do notice that my knees seem to lock when I record.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Thrupenny Bit on March 04, 2019, 02:35:08 PM
Hi Peeps,
OK, I've given this a go here....
https://soundcloud.com/thrupenny-bit/origin-of-the-world

Having fallen in love with this tune from seeing Andy Cutting lead it during a Blowzabella gig, I've been unable to somehow fit it onto my DG box. Paul Young's video, playing in Bm was the answer and I'm eternally grateful to him.
I've played it here on my BbEb Hohner Erika using the 'DG fingering for Bm' which from my calculations puts it in the key of Gm.
cheers
Q
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on March 04, 2019, 03:10:00 PM
Hi Peeps,
OK, I've given this a go here....
https://soundcloud.com/thrupenny-bit/origin-of-the-world
Q

Nicely done, Q. That really sings out. I can tell you've been listening to Andy.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Thrupenny Bit on March 04, 2019, 03:33:17 PM
Aw thanks Greg.
Yes Andy's version is for me, simply sublime. Something to aspire to....
Q
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Roland Carson on March 05, 2019, 03:37:31 PM
Hi,
Here's a video we made of this a while ago...It's still a work we aspire to and no doubt we will play it more in the future because it is certainly a lovely mazurka.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQjfNahg70I
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Peter Savage on March 05, 2019, 04:47:18 PM
I just sat down to record this and found that I couldn't play it as well as I used to be able to!  So here it is from last year in B-minor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PnUj0Xg5TE

Looking at Andy's recordings of this in G-minor (played on a C/F box, so A-minor in D/G speak), I think the harmonies perhaps work better playing it like that.  Having said that, the tune not as easy to play it in A-minor versus B-minor...(in my opinion anyway).
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Fred on March 05, 2019, 05:24:59 PM
I just sat down to record this and found that I couldn't play it as well as I used to be able to!  So here it is from last year in B-minor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PnUj0Xg5TE&t=89s.   

And here's the link to the video without it starting right in the middle of the tune: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PnUj0Xg5TE
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Julian S on March 06, 2019, 01:37:49 PM
Having just transposed the dots from the Blowza tune book to my current favourite key (Bm), predictably I find that the version I have always worked from differs quite a bit - notes, phrasing etc. And there are better chord possibilities, and easier fingering so definitely a lesson for me !
Now to relearn...
J
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Fred on March 06, 2019, 03:41:05 PM
Here comes my approach to this tune. I do enjoy playing it so it will become part of my regular repertoire for sure.

https://soundcloud.com/laubblaeser/the-origin-of-the-world-take-1

Played in Em on my D/G Loffet with the repetition pattern AA BB AB A.
I've included a few hickups for you to spot while listening and also introduced a few variations which I personally find myself resorting to more often than playing the original notation.

To me this tune is a great pattern to improvise, change the rhythm, and add a bit of playfulness here and there - otherwise I don't want to play through it after one or two rounds. :)
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Jackhumphreys on March 07, 2019, 03:29:48 PM
Revised:   Typos now fixed, thanks to Greg.  (The original E minor version had some majors and minors mixedup)

CHORDS

In case it helps other seekers after authenticity, here are the chords for G minor which  Dave S provided in "Blowzabella, More Scores".
It's one chord per bar, except two chords [minim, crotchet]  in  square bracketed bars.
I've transposed to E minor  and B minor further down the page.

G minor  from the book:

Gm  Eb  Cm  Bb     
Eb  Gm  Eb  F 
Cm  Bb  Eb   F   
[Gm F] Eb  F   Gm       

Gm  Bb  Cm  F 
Gm  Bb  Cm  F
Cm  Bb   Eb  F
[Gm F] Eb  F  Gm   



E minor

Em   C    Am    G
C     Em   C    D
Am    G     C    D
[Em D] C   D   Em

Em  G   Am   D
Em  G   Am   D
Am  G   C     D
[Em D] C   D  Em

B minor

Bm G  Em   D
G   Bm   G  A
Em  D    G  A 
[Bm A] G  A  Bm

Bm  D  Em  A
Bm  D  Em  A
Em  D   G   A
[Bm A] G  A  Bm
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Anahata on March 07, 2019, 10:04:20 PM
I've not taken a great deal of notice of the discussion about chords, but I did pick up on the link where you can download the entire tune book from the Blowzabella site, and though it would be well worth it for many more tunes as well as this one.

So here's my take on it, intended to be as writ, with Dave's chords where possible, but all transposed to B minor.
On those downward arpeggios in the B music I get different notes wrong each time... several other fluffs too, but I eventually got a take where I didn't lose the rhythm too much.

https://youtu.be/XWvc5d1cLwE
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Fred on March 07, 2019, 10:23:00 PM
That was very enjoyable to listen to, Anahata. And I can definitely feel with you considering the variety of mistakes during the arpeggio parts - those don't come too easy but I think it was a worthwhile practice.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: playandteach on March 07, 2019, 10:30:41 PM
Good to hear that others find aspects hard too. Although I'd listen to you any day, wrong notes or not.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Gena Crisman on March 09, 2019, 10:23:24 PM
Hello TotM pals,

I usually tack my efforts on at the end of the month when I finally get around to learning and sometimes even recording the tune. This month's tune is one I have been working on for some time already, since the end of 2017 apparently, but, it's invariably taken a back seat. I've been spurred to get back to it though since it came up for TotM.

One reason I wanted to learn it originally is that, I met up with a friend of mine and played some music for them, and they were like "that's neat. I don't suppose you know any tunes that aren't bouncy morris sounding tunes?".

I didn't.

This tune then became the answer to that question. It captivates my interest not just for the melody and structure, but also for the the way you end up playing the instrument, however which  way you end up doing so, due to its natural minor scale and large wingspan. It helped encourage me to seek out (http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,22039.msg266276.html#msg266276) and learn how chords could work (http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,22039.msg269991.html#msg269991) to push the tune, or as it turns out, 'not' push, particularly when the leading tone is absent, and how to play in B minor, and why you would want to. Paul Young's video of this tune in Bm helped me a lot.

Since then my interest has grown to tune writing & modes and exploring more strange ways to play the melodeon, and the act of doing those things and thinking about them has improved my comfort level with this kind of 'dancing' around the keyboard, especially to find harmony, which I do think has improved my playing, and understanding, of tunes.

Sadly, I still have no physical knowledge of how to play a Mazurka well, but, perhaps I'll get there before the end of the month! I also need to really figure out the middle of the B music, where there's a long sequence of draw chords, in bars 7, 8 and 9. I've had some air woes there before when playing louder. I also actually run out of air at one point in my video. Some work to do, yet. The tune is under my fingers, though, which I'm very pleased by.

In the world of 'studio talk', the audio is from an H2n again, about a meter in front of me. This time the lighting is care of a single studio light, aimed at the ceiling, and using my phone's front facing camera instead of the rear facing camera. This means there's no focus adjustment, and the quality of the camera isn't as good in terms of how much light it can get. But! I can see exactly what I'm doing and frame it fairly well. Bass end is a little bit fuzzy, and, every time I move it looks a little bit like soup (peep the grill). To me, that suggests the shutter speed is too long, which suggests there's not enough light. Sadly, I also tend to move around a lot. No dodgy reflections though! And far fewer dropped frames.

I played this on a 'new' 3v Oakwood, with the following stop configuration:
3 voice: on
Low Bass Fundamental: on
Chord Thirds: off

Origin of the World (Bm)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO14MpMJgtg
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Clive Williams on March 10, 2019, 10:39:05 AM
Great stuff everyone - I struggled with this too! The 3rd arpeggio became a lot easier when I (eventually) figured out I needed to swap row!

https://youtu.be/IYIY26XSPKY

Here's my version, done on the Streb outputting midi to Mixcraft, and using the admittedly dodgy midi sound samples in Mixcraft. I suspect I might have been better using the samples in the Streb to be honest, but there we are. It's not, despite how it sounds, multi-tracked - I have the treble coming down one midi channel, and the bass down another with a different set of samples.

I think I'm in Bb/Eb, so the tune comes out in the original key of G minor. I'm also using unisonoric basses to make my life a bit easier.

Cheers,

Clive
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Dick Rees on March 10, 2019, 01:18:31 PM
Great, Clive.  Very noir!
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Saul Bailey on March 10, 2019, 05:35:50 PM
It's been a while, had a mad few weeks, but at last I can get back into TotM! So here we are...

https://youtu.be/rjR8RZpXWgg
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: playandteach on March 10, 2019, 05:48:41 PM
Just great, Saul.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Thrupenny Bit on March 10, 2019, 05:58:49 PM
Yes indeed, lovely playing Saul.
Q
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Jackhumphreys on March 10, 2019, 06:48:23 PM
It's been a while, had a mad few weeks, but at last I can get back into TotM! So here we are...

https://youtu.be/rjR8RZpXWgg

Thank you Saul.  So happy to hear all the notes and chords as Dave wrote them, plus your additional harmony notes and rhythms that our instrument can do so well.  And I'm so impressed with the fluency and accuracy of your playing, dancing over those arpeggios as if they were easy to play.   :|glug
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Saul Bailey on March 10, 2019, 10:56:15 PM
It's been a while, had a mad few weeks, but at last I can get back into TotM! So here we are...

https://youtu.be/rjR8RZpXWgg

Thank you Saul.  So happy to hear all the notes and chords as Dave wrote them, plus your additional harmony notes and rhythms that our instrument can do so well.  And I'm so impressed with the fluency and accuracy of your playing, dancing over those arpeggios as if they were easy to play.   :|glug

Thank you - you should see the other umpteen takes!
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on March 11, 2019, 09:32:04 AM
apropos of nothing, I have just started to actually try and play this (up to now I have been just trying to get the melody into my head). I am overwhelmed with respect for those who have managed it. I have a feeling I won't.

[Edit: I am skulking off now to see if I can manage something in Em, instead of Bm, on the box with a low D scale]
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Thrupenny Bit on March 11, 2019, 10:00:41 AM
Greg, I think that's what frustrated me for so long. Playing in Em meant I couldn't get down low enough ( low E?) with a low G scale ( Anahata ) layout. The Bm option meant it fitted on my box!
Good luck matey...
Q
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Anahata on March 11, 2019, 12:44:33 PM
B minor is a no-brainer on a D/G box on which you can take the thirds out of the LH chords, and as Paul Young has demonstrated right at the top of the thread it's certainly possible even if you have a B major chord, by using the bass note alone or with the D chord to make a Bm7.
I'm intrigued, though, by the idea of playing it in other keys on different boxes if time permits, especially my Club C/F on which it should be possible in the original key of Gm, including the E♭ bass/chord that comes with the Club system.
Or E minor on my C/G melodeon that doesn't get played nearly enough, fiitting the keyboard in the same way as Bm does on a D/G.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Clive Williams on March 11, 2019, 01:10:34 PM
apropos of nothing, I have just started to actually try and play this (up to now I have been just trying to get the melody into my head). I am overwhelmed with respect for those who have managed it. I have a feeling I won't.

[Edit: I am skulking off now to see if I can manage something in Em, instead of Bm, on the box with a low D scale]

There are tricks to playing this in Bm, and I'm not sure those tricks would work in Em. The hardest part, for me anyway, was the downward running arpeggios in the B music, and it took a while to get it right, even knowing what the tricks are. But basically, first arpeggio is on the outside row, on the pull, missing out one note, and played against E minor. Second arpeggio is on the outside row, on the push. Third arpeggio, and this is the one that took me ages to figure out, is on the push, on the inside row, played against G. The fourth bit is cross row, on the pull, but mostly on the outside row, and played against an A chord.

I find it fascinating (well slightly anyway, I do think about other stuff too) how some tunes that were not written for the melodeon seem to make very little sense, but then make perfect sense when you figure them out. Patin Blancs is another.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Julian S on March 11, 2019, 02:01:31 PM
I think I'm getting there in Bm - taking full advantage of my Pasty push Em chord and push E on the half row. Don't half help with bar 9 b part. Smug grin time !

J
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on March 11, 2019, 02:54:28 PM
apropos of nothing, I have just started to actually try and play this (up to now I have been just trying to get the melody into my head). I am overwhelmed with respect for those who have managed it. I have a feeling I won't.

[Edit: I am skulking off now to see if I can manage something in Em, instead of Bm, on the box with a low D scale]

There are tricks to playing this in Bm, and I'm not sure those tricks would work in Em....

I'm sure you're right, and thanks for that, but what's really upsetting me is the squeakiness. I'm right up to the top on the D row playing notes I don't normally use, and which seem to need a tad more effort to get to sound, probably because they're very dusty.. Maybe I need to add an LMM to the collection.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Thrupenny Bit on March 11, 2019, 04:50:16 PM
Julian, have you been visiting Devon with your 'Pasty push'?
I keep meaning to ask about the advantages of the extra 4 bass buttons and how to use them, as touched on by Julian.
I see Saul nipping up to use his extra basses on his rendition. I am a committed 2row/8bass person, but still intrigued  nonetheless.
I suppose the interest comes from not seeing any regular 2.5row/12 bass players in my neck of the woods, so it's all a mystery.
Q
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Julian S on March 11, 2019, 05:54:26 PM
'pasty' short for pastourelle Q ! (Strictly it's a salty pasty too..yet another tune title pending ?)

J

Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Thrupenny Bit on March 11, 2019, 06:25:57 PM
Ah.... apologies Julian. I though predictive text had got in the way!
Q
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Thrupenny Bit on March 11, 2019, 06:33:08 PM
Greg, I hit reply as your post came in!
Yes, I'm aware of the fundamental difference between Saltarelle and Castagnari layout. I tend to think, in basic terms, the Saltarelle is a 'super' DG whilst as you say, Castagnari offer more key choices.
I suppose my interest is how people apply those options to the tunes. Basically I need to get and watch those type of players.
...and some turn up on this thread!
Q

Modified as my predictive text got in the way  ;)
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Dick Rees on March 11, 2019, 07:29:30 PM
Fingering and "flow" of the descending arpeggios in the B section can be approached in many ways.  I see a lot of folks "one-rowing" them like I used to do, but now that I've had to work around arthritic finger joints I find myself looking for more comfortable fingerings.  Here's my current approach to them using G/C as a notational reference.  First and third on the draw, second on the push. 

Edit for fingering:  Phrasing is more 4/2 rather than 3/3 with the index finger taking the fourth note in each bar.

a |
| e
| c
A |
| E
| C

g |
| d
| B
G |
| D
| B

f |
| c
| A
F |
| C
| A

I find the symmetry  evens out the phrasing as well as making the shift of hand position a bit more ergonomic.  I owe this approach to my dear departed friend John Berquist with whom I spent many happy hours playing button box.  Here we are serenading a garden gnome...
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Julian S on March 11, 2019, 07:49:48 PM
Do we need another thread on two an a bit /12 bass layouts - or has this been discussed ad nauseam elsewhere ? what do you think ?
I hope to post my version of Origin tomorrow (fingers crossed)...

J
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Thrupenny Bit on March 11, 2019, 08:07:34 PM
Thanks for the thought Julian.
Perhaps I need to re-visit the threads and read them again, though I do seem to go round in circles.
I will watch your post with added interest and see where the Salty Pasty takes you  ;)
I'm also aware I'm seriously thread drifting the ToTM so will keep quiet..... apologies ToTM-ers!
cheers
Q
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Gena Crisman on March 12, 2019, 12:49:38 AM
I keep meaning to ask about the advantages of the extra 4 bass buttons and how to use them, as touched on by Julian.
I see Saul nipping up to use his extra basses on his rendition. I am a committed 2row/8bass person, but still intrigued  nonetheless.

F major (F+A+C) is to A minor (A+C+E) just as C major (C+E+G) is to E minor (E+G+B). They overlap, basically.

So, if you play in actual A natural minor/Aeolian (using the same notes as C major), rather than A dorian (using the same notes as G major), F major can be a very useful chord. It's a chord based on a note that's normally only available on an accidental, but offers you improved chord vocabulary to bring your inner row's dorian-to-natural-minor playing in line with what you can do with your outer row's dorian. (eg makes A minor more on par with E minor in chords). Not having your F notes in the same direction as your F chord would be a bit weird though, which some layouts are cool with the idea of doing.

If you have a CF box, you just take all these things down a tone, so, you get G minor instead of A minor, but the reason for reaching up to the same basses still applies.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Thrupenny Bit on March 12, 2019, 08:43:43 AM
Thanks for that Gena.  I'll have a think about that......
Cheers.
Q
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Jackhumphreys on March 13, 2019, 05:27:08 PM
https://youtu.be/yOYL_xzbIU8

This beautiful tune has been the most difficult ToTM for me to learn, requiring endless practice of those arpeggios. And even then it required 29 takes this afternoon to get this version!!! (After a while, diminishing returns of further takes)
I'm lucky enough to dance and play mazurkas fairly often, and I prefer them slow and gentle.

So my version here is at only 110, while Andy Cutting plays at around 130, and there are some even quicker ones on the forum.  Although the feeling of the tune is quite slow in my ears,  there are nevertheless a lot of repeated quavers. So the tune alone carries the rhythm in my opinion, not needing a typical mazurka left hand. 

Seems to me that there's a lot of emotion and significance in this tune: its extraordinary choice of title points to that. Dave must have meant something very significant in giving the tune the same title as  the iconic painting (as in icon)  So it's worth spending hours (days) in learning to play it, in my opinion.  ToTM is definitely a good thing!



Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Gena Crisman on March 13, 2019, 06:35:44 PM
https://youtu.be/yOYL_xzbIU8

This beautiful tune has been the most difficult ToTM for me to learn, requiring endless practice of those arpeggios. And even then it required 29 takes this afternoon to get this version!!! (After a while, diminishing returns of further takes)
I'm lucky enough to dance and play mazurkas fairly often, and I prefer them slow and gentle.

Absolutely lovely, well done!
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Julian S on March 13, 2019, 06:51:18 PM
I haven't been keeping track of the number of takes I have rejected so far - loads ! The last wasn't bad, but I think I rushed the arpeggios too much, and consequently increased speed. Time for the metronome I think.
Listening to Blowza playing it, I think I prefer it a tad slower - I agree with Jack on this. Fresh look tomorrow for me.

J
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Thoon on March 14, 2019, 09:59:40 AM
Hi!  (:)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEbdk9YWctE&t=7s
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Jackhumphreys on March 14, 2019, 10:21:12 AM
Thoon's  Origin:   Masterful. In my ears the definitive interpretation in accordeon style, with wonderful additions to the chords, and fully expressing the spirit of the composition. 
When faced with this level of musicianship and expertise, what do the rest of us do? Almost feel like giving up the struggle to play well.  But no...... we can study what you are doing with those seventh chords and extra right hand notes, and the choice of voicings, but most of all how to convey the spirit behind a composition, beyond playing the notes.
Thanks Thoon for showing us the way!
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Thrupenny Bit on March 14, 2019, 10:31:45 AM
Lovely Thoon.....
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Julian S on March 14, 2019, 10:40:52 AM
Really beautiful, Thoon. Great playing.

J
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Julian S on March 14, 2019, 02:10:49 PM
Before I lose my sanity (never mind everyone else in the house), here is my attempt, warts and all.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i3teeJr2rC8

I can't say I'm entirely happy with it - I blame the limits of my technology as well as my ability but it's time to move on !

J
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: richard.fleming on March 14, 2019, 02:47:39 PM
Is there any connection between this tune and Courbet's painting of the same name? I think we ought to know. But be warned - if you look it up the tune will  never be quite the same for you afterwards. Better or worse, I'm not sure, but different anyway.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Julian S on March 14, 2019, 02:58:32 PM
Is there any connection between this tune and Courbet's painting of the same name? I think we ought to know. But be warned - if you look it up the tune will  never be quite the same for you afterwards. Better or worse, I'm not sure, but different anyway.

I think there is. Did Dave Shepherd compose it after seeing the painting ?

J
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: arty on March 14, 2019, 08:04:58 PM
Hi!  (:)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEbdk9YWctE&t=7s

That has set the bar very high, hasn’t it! Thank you Thoon, that is inspiring.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Winston Smith on March 14, 2019, 08:20:53 PM
"That has set the bar very high, hasn’t it!"

In my opinion, Thoon is one of our most exceptional players. Although I've listened to all of the renderings of this tune (and very good as they must certainly be) his version knocks them all into a cocked hat!
It's not a tune that I've ever liked, no matter who was playing it; but Thoons recording makes it sound so much more "listenable", for me. Thank you Thoon, so very much.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: playandteach on March 14, 2019, 08:22:13 PM

I can't say I'm entirely happy with it - I blame the limits of my technology as well as my ability but it's time to move on !
As I said before, we can either give room to the giants of the box who post here (and watch TOTM wither) or post the best that we can do at the time with the intention of making progress en route.
It's great that we get those giants here, and they do raise the bar, but we have our own personal goals and I'm delighted to see so many postings this month.
I used to run half marathons every weekend. They were called races, but I only ever raced against my own PB. I remember how difficult it became to shave even 5 seconds off a mile. I might have been overtaken by someone in a crocodile suit from time to time too. I once climbed a route on Harrison's rock, which is a smeary sandstone. I found out that someone else climbed it in boxing gloves and roller skates. I'm still proud to have done it.
For what it's worth Julian, I've heard you play tunes very comfortably, much more rhythmically than I can, and with seeming ease.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on March 15, 2019, 12:12:58 AM
Is there any connection between this tune and Courbet's painting of the same name? I think we ought to know. But be warned - if you look it up the tune will  never be quite the same for you afterwards. Better or worse, I'm not sure, but different anyway.

I think there is. Did Dave Shepherd compose it after seeing the painting ?

J

I believe Dave wrote it as therapy to help him recover from the shock of seeing the painting.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Julian S on March 15, 2019, 08:24:27 AM
Is there any connection between this tune and Courbet's painting of the same name? I think we ought to know. But be warned - if you look it up the tune will  never be quite the same for you afterwards. Better or worse, I'm not sure, but different anyway.

I think there is. Did Dave Shepherd compose it after seeing the painting ?

J

I believe Dave wrote it as therapy to help him recover from the shock of seeing the painting.

I think I need to look at the painting to recover from the strain of recording the tune !

The tune has grown on me very much (even more after listening to Thoon's sublime version). It's a tune to stretch and learn by - just enough outside the comfort zone. And how to capture the spirit of the tune is the challenge, never mind the difficult phrases. I shall struggle on.

J
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Winston Smith on March 15, 2019, 08:44:27 AM
Do we really need to keep referring to a picture of a lady's private parts? Or am I the only one who finds it superfluous (and in rather bad taste) on a forum which is dedicated to melodeons and melodeon stuff, as well as possibly being offensive to some of our female members?
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Thrupenny Bit on March 15, 2019, 09:05:43 AM
Well done Julian!
Yes it's a tune that, for me, really got under my skin. I really love it. It will stay with me and therefore should improve with playing. I hope!
Q
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Fred on March 15, 2019, 01:00:17 PM
Or am I the only one who finds it superfluous (and in rather bad taste) on a forum which is dedicated to melodeons and melodeon stuff

Possibly yes.

as well as possibly being offensive to some of our female members?

Possibly no.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Winston Smith on March 15, 2019, 01:04:25 PM
Well, thanks for that reassurance, Fred. Haha!
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on March 15, 2019, 01:50:20 PM
Well, thanks for that reassurance, Fred. Haha!

Never mind. Maybe learning the tune will help you cope with it's relationship to the picture.

I have actually got the A part going quite well. Now for the B.
I have noticed that Blowzabella's setting will work rather well in Em, on a two row with low notes. No need to go mining for the lowest notes. They don't do that. Well, not all of them.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Squeaky Pete on March 15, 2019, 03:30:15 PM
I haven't heard a one row version yet.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Thoon on March 15, 2019, 04:57:55 PM
Thanks for kind words from those who appreciate my version! See you soon! (:)
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: playandteach on March 15, 2019, 07:00:15 PM
It's always a pleasure to hear your playing, Thoon.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: howard mitchell on March 16, 2019, 08:53:50 PM
I haven't heard a one row version yet.

I’d been thinking about doing a one row version. Of course that means none of the left hand accompaniments are available and some of the arpeggios become even more difficult.

My plan was to use my Sagne in D with its alternate left hand which has a chromatic set of bass notes and no chords. However time has beaten me, I’m travelling from tomorrow for the rest of the month and although I’ve got the tune on the right hand, my brain capacity is not enough to keep up with a newly-learnt layout for the bass notes.

The tune just by itself seems a bit bare so I’ve added my planned bass sequence using a double bass and few piano arpeggios to fill in the chords.

The arpeggios in the tune require a bit of bellows work on a one row and the downward G arpeggio in thr B music is particularly spaced out and comes out a bit staccato because of the hand shifts. I could do better there with a bit more practice.

Here it is in Bm - https://youtu.be/t_Lg8UvFo7A (https://youtu.be/t_Lg8UvFo7A)

Mitch


Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: playandteach on March 16, 2019, 08:57:58 PM
Sounds lovely.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Squeaky Pete on March 16, 2019, 11:13:11 PM
That was great. I enjoyed that.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: LoonBox on March 22, 2019, 04:08:07 PM
Here's mine.  https://youtu.be/Xxeac4iuDmY

I had to psyche myself up to make the video and got a bit nervous and shaky but I'm happy I could at least make it through.  Not that satisfied with it but I've got lots of other music to work on and have been playing this since mid February so I wanted to push part my discomfort and put something out there. I've been learning a lot from following along in the forum so here's my humble attempt and thanks to all you guys for creating such a welcoming community.

Edit to add I changed my user name to match the YouTube channel.
-Mia
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Anahata on March 22, 2019, 04:32:22 PM
Beautiful. If I knew how to do a mazurka, I could have danced to that.
I look forward to more, now you've broken the ice. (actually, 'melted' would be a better word in this case)
And how lucky to have inherited that fabulous box from your grandfather!
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Gena Crisman on March 22, 2019, 04:34:34 PM
I had to psyche myself up to make the video and got a bit nervous and shaky but I'm happy I could at least make it through.  Not that satisfied with it but I've got lots of other music to work on...

You have the long arpeggios in the B section down - many here have struggled with them. Even if there you feel it's wanting, the work you've been putting into the tune clearly shows through. Pushing through the fears and anxieties of performing, if even only to a camera, has yielded a lot of positive things for me so far, and I hope it offers you the same benefits.

Well done!
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: arty on March 22, 2019, 09:24:49 PM
Phew!!!

Stupidly, the first time through, I played the second part only once, so I played the whole thing through twice more as a kind of punishment  ???  Sorry if it goes on a bit - it's the best I can do at the moment. Lovely piece though!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5zXdml4CBg
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Jesse Smith on March 22, 2019, 09:36:50 PM
Pushing through the fears and anxieties of performing, if even only to a camera, has yielded a lot of positive things for me so far, and I hope it offers you the same benefits.

Yes indeed! I am really glad to have the Tune/Theme of the Month driving me to learn something to an approximation of "performance standard" each month. And there's a side benefit (although it might be reduced as I improve): It usually takes me a few dozen takes (many incomplete but some just annoyingly lacking in something or other) before I get something I'm satisfied enough with to call a keeper. So I guess I end up tricking myself into John Kirkpatrick's frequent recommendation of "play the same tune continuously for an hour". ;D It is certainly true that by the end of a recording session I always feel that I know the tune a lot better than when I started!

This month's tune is way outside my current abilities but it has been very inspiring to hear so many different interpretations. Many thanks to Clive and everyone who participates for keeping this going every month!
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on March 22, 2019, 11:35:19 PM
Phew!!!

Stupidly, the first time through, I played the second part only once, so I played the whole thing through twice more as a kind of punishment  ???  Sorry if it goes on a bit - it's the best I can do at the moment. Lovely piece though!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5zXdml4CBg

Never apologise. You played the second part once through because that was how you saw the artistic direction of the tune going. Nicely held together. It's great when everything flows. Nice sound to that melodeon, as well.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Pete Dunk on March 23, 2019, 12:22:15 AM
Here's mine.

Splendid! You may be new to melodeon and fighting against nerves when recording but your musicianship is rock solid and the fluid rhythm you bring to the piece is sublime. I think your grandfather would be justifiably proud of you and delighted that his box has found such a good home. Keep up the good work!  ;D
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: playandteach on March 23, 2019, 12:55:56 AM
Here's mine.  https://youtu.be/Xxeac4iuDmY
-Mia
Hello, welcome, and well done indeed.
You should soon start to realise that there is nothing more admired here than newcomers with new voices. It's great to have you playing and contributing  already. You are clearly, as already noted, an experienced musician and I really look forward to another GC player making uploads. Seriously, well played.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: arty on March 23, 2019, 06:54:11 AM

Never apologise. You played the second part once through because that was how you saw the artistic direction of the tune going. Nicely held together. It's great when everything flows. Nice sound to that melodeon, as well.

Thank you Greg. It’s a lovely piece but that one line of arpeggios is a bit of a bugger to smooth out. Worth all the effort though  (:)
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: arty on March 23, 2019, 09:34:21 AM
Hi,
Here's a video we made of this a while ago...It's still a work we aspire to and no doubt we will play it more in the future because it is certainly a lovely mazurka.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQjfNahg70I

Going through all the recordings, now that I have done mine, I have to say that I find this, played at this speed, very beautiful indeed. I have learnt a lesson here, having spent the last three weeks falling over my fingers, while trying to get it faster and faster, when really, a slower speed has much beauty. Lovely, thank you  (:)
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on March 23, 2019, 09:38:08 AM
Hi,
Here's a video we made of this a while ago...It's still a work we aspire to and no doubt we will play it more in the future because it is certainly a lovely mazurka.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQjfNahg70I

Going through all the recordings, now that I have done mine, I have to say that I find this, played at this speed, very beautiful indeed.

Roland's videos are always a treat to listen to.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Stiamh on March 24, 2019, 08:39:47 PM
This is a lovely tune. I'm surprised that nobody has pointed out the obvious mistake in bar 8 of the second part in all three ABC transcriptions posted on the first page. Part 2 bar 8 as given in Clive's Bm version is

AB de fe   

when clearly it should be

AB ce fa

which is what most people posting are actually playing, and it is certainly what Paul Young is playing (down a tone, in Am) on the clip I have just been watching.

Incidentally this sequence of notes strongly suggests an F#m chord, as do several other places in the tune. I don't agree with the suggestion that was made that the tune is modal tune and therefore F#m should not be expected. Aeolian mode if you like, but a straight minor key tune really. Those of you who have no F#m chord don't know what you're missing in Bm tunes!  :P
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Gena Crisman on March 24, 2019, 10:27:46 PM
I'm surprised that nobody has pointed out the obvious mistake in bar 8 of the second part in all three ABC transcriptions posted on the first page.
...
Incidentally this sequence of notes strongly suggests an F#m chord, as do several other places in the tune. I don't agree with the suggestion that was made that the tune is modal tune and therefore F#m should not be expected. Aeolian mode if you like, but a straight minor key tune really. Those of you who have no F#m chord don't know what you're missing in Bm tunes!  :P

Well, you are right, but I'd extend that to every ABC notation copy of the tune that's been posted so far either here or in the poll thread (http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,23566.0.html) has been conceptually speaking 'wrong' in one way or another, including the one I shared. There's the option to buy a tune book with the 'correct' score in it, and that helped me figure out all the places I had been going 'wrong', but after that... it seemed a little unethical to buy it, fix all the mistakes and share out that ABC, or even heavily draw attention to certain details. Perhaps the provided ABC was transcribed from some recording we don't know about? In terms of attention to details of recorded performances by Dave Shepherd... idk, so like as best as I can tell, I'm also the only person who's made a submission that repeats the final half of the B music at the end (apologies to anyone if I missed your recording, this tune really speaks to me so I've tried to listen to every submission), so, perhaps there's another 'obvious mistake' that everyone's made, since every (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdwaUm1QDv0) (reasonably) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78Nex0PCjPc) official (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5D9tl-c1yAw) recording I've seen/heard ends in this manner. But, TotM is about learning, adapting and performing a tune through your own lens (& mostly for ones own benefit), so, I dunno? I don't mean/want to imply anyone's performance is wrong, this was just a detail that mattered to me.

Also, I think the suggestion you're disagreeing with, that because the tune is modal that F#m 'is not expected', is probably based on a misunderstanding? Based on conversations I've had with some of my local band members who were taught to play music by some kind of teacher at some point (often in the distant past), some of them reported being taught that 'harmonic minor' was 'minor', so, perhaps that could have been the purpose behind the describing of the tune as 'modal', as this tune clearly is not harmonic minor. But, since the Aeolian mode and Natural minor are the same progressions, to say it's 'straight' minor surely is to say it's modal, and vice versa, right? *shrug* That's probably a semantics issue and a black hole of conversation though...

The more important takeaway is that, any progression, including natural minor, that does not include the leading tone (the note one semi tone below the tonic note), does not have the same functional harmony rules in its diatonic chords that make I IV V so effective. The v chord, F#m, would definitely be a perfectly fine chord to find in a B natural minor tune, but, we can fairly comfortably live without it. I believe it was far more the concept of I IV V breaking down that was being alluded to, rather than that F#m would be somehow wrong for a B minor tune. You're certainly not incorrect in your assertion though, F#m would be a banging chord to have access to!

However, if it's of any comfort to anyone, I can say that while the notes may imply it, the score as written in More Scores never uses the 5th scale degree.

Oh, edit, and I should add:

More importantly,  the melody differs in bar 8 of the B music, where the BZB book's   G minor score notes are FGACDF
Whereas the melnet abc  G minor equivalent would be  FG BC DC.   The authentic tune has a different rising shape leading up to the top note of the arpeggio in the next bar.
Just thought that if we're busy learning this, we might as well respect DS's intentions.

So, the punch was indeed thrown prior, it seems.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on March 24, 2019, 10:49:59 PM
Like I said at the beginning, you're better off listening to the tune being played than you are worrying about minor faffs in the score.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Stiamh on March 24, 2019, 11:01:55 PM
Hi Gena. My apologies to Jack Humphreys - I skimmed the thread but not carefully enough. I wasn't familiar with the tune when I first ran through it a while ago, using the ABCs posted here, and that bar immediately struck me as off without having heard any of the renditions. (I wouldn't care if that actually was the composer's version - I wouldn't play those notes! (:) )

As to the ethics of correcting a bad version of a tune published for all to see just because it's in a book you can buy - well, if you were the composer of a tune, would you prefer to think that people all over the world were learning a setting containing a bar that made little musical sense - and assuming that's what you had written?

PS Greg - of course I agree. But if you are going to post a score here for people to use as a reference, it should be reasonably accurate. I don't regard the bar B8 in question as a "minor faff" - to me it's a howler.  >:(

Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Anahata on March 24, 2019, 11:19:15 PM
as best as I can tell, I'm also the only person who's made a submission that repeats the final half of the B music at the end

Indeed - well spotted!
The three 'official' samples you linked to were all Blowzabella (or members of...) so the players are obviously all used to playing it that way countless times.
I don't see that as an issue with playing the tune right or wrong, but as an arrangement decision.

Quote
Perhaps the provided ABC was transcribed from some recording we don't know about?
Given that DS is on record as quite prickly about his tunes being played incorrectly, I'd assume(a) that the Blowzabella book is correct and (b) he'd prefer it played that way.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: playandteach on March 24, 2019, 11:40:56 PM
My feeling is that if a tune is written by someone who is ok with it being 'covered' in the Totm fashion, then we should be ok to assume that we don't want 10 identical interpretations - at least I don't. If someone has learnt something incorrectly by mistake then it's ok to ask if that is their intention, but if they've chosen to play it that way, then it should also be fine to allow their version. We don't have to like it, but I'd be put off joining in future tunes by an assumption that I have to do it one way or another.
I've respected composer's intentions for years in the classical world, and I'm rather enjoying not being that person on the melodeon (although of course I wish I could play the box better).
We might insist that the tempo has to be a certain way, or the harmonies have to be such and such (which might not always be possible), or the structure...
Then we might find that we get 2 people a month brave enough to brave the risk of 'corrections'. I seem to remember playing neither the official version, nor the one which dips at the end, but maybe in that key it would be FG, BbCD F. That's what I meant to play, and I'm perfectly happy leaving it there.
I get that this is a live tune by a living composer, but in time honoured fashion keeping tradition alive is best achieved by fanning the flames rather than preserving the ashes.
It's entirely possible that I've misunderstood the argument here - apologies if I have.
For the very few souls who fancy playing a tune I have written, knock yourselves out, change anything you like.

Having now read Anahata's comments about Dave being prickly - I don't know what to think, perhaps we shouldn't have such tunes as Totm, or at least not without their official published version, but that is a can of worms. It's a tune I like playing, but I'm never going to play it in public, and I've removed my Youtube version, warts and all, to avoid that criticism.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Anahata on March 25, 2019, 12:03:13 AM
Dave Shepherd's best known objection is to the way WilliamTaylor's Tabletop Hornpipe has been mangled by melodeon players in a number of Morris and Molly teams. I sympathise in that case, because the tune has had nice distinctive features flattened out into something much more bland, partly because of the melodeon's limitations. In that instance, the most frequently played version has taken on a life of its own.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Steve_freereeder on March 25, 2019, 12:52:15 AM
Dave Shepherd's best known objection is to the way WilliamTaylor's Tabletop Hornpipe has been mangled by melodeon players in a number of Morris and Molly teams. I sympathise in that case, because the tune has had nice distinctive features flattened out into something much more bland, partly because of the melodeon's limitations. In that instance, the most frequently played version has taken on a life of its own.
As I recall, Dave Shepherd has two main objections to how WTTH has been mangled: (i) being played in D/G melodeon friendly E minor, rather than the original G minor, and (ii) people not realising that the B-music has two subtly different halves and only playing the first half both times round.

Personally I have no problem with (i). I think it is fine to transpose a tune to a key which is friendly to a particular instrument, if it enables the tune to be played rather than not played. Bach did it all the time.

With (ii) I think it is a shame that the B-music is so often simplified (some might even say 'dumbed down') which is then perpetuated by other musicians learning/hearing the simplified version, not knowing any different. The original B-music, with its 'nice distinctive features' as Anahata puts it, is actually perfectly melodeon-friendly. It's just a case of looking up and/or listening to the original version and learning it properly. You end up with a far richer tune as a result.

I'm pretty sure we've discussed this tune before on this forum. The folk process of tune evolution doesn't always work for the best, sorry to say.

 
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Gena Crisman on March 25, 2019, 01:05:51 AM
Given that DS is on record as quite prickly about his tunes being played incorrectly, I'd assume(a) that the Blowzabella book is correct and (b) he'd prefer it played that way.

I mean, I would assume that too. Except that so far as I can tell, the chords for William Taylor's in the reprinted versions of Encyclopedia Blowzabellica do not appear to match up with the chords played by Becky Price in this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjZUmIw0sWk) on Dave's youtube channel which he describes as a definitive version. Everything's complicated forever, hooray! I have no answers, though, only observations.

I'm going to go research software licenses, but, for music compositions...
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Steve_freereeder on March 25, 2019, 01:20:02 AM
Except that so far as I can tell, the chords for William Taylor's in the reprinted versions of Encyclopedia Blowzabellica do not appear to match up with the chords played by Becky Price in this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjZUmIw0sWk) on Dave's youtube channel which he describes as a definitive version....
I suspect that Dave Shepherd, being a fiddle player, probably did not originally specify chords to go with WTTH. I may be wrong though!
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Thrupenny Bit on March 25, 2019, 08:46:58 AM
Once you release an animal into the wild you cannot control what will happen to it.
Ditto a tune...
Q
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on March 25, 2019, 09:25:57 AM
PS Greg - of course I agree. But if you are going to post a score here for people to use as a reference, it should be reasonably accurate. I don't regard the bar B8 in question as a "minor faff" - to me it's a howler.  >:(

 :|bl

I stand chastened.
Perhaps I should have made it clearer that the transcription was not my own. It was the only one I could locate at the time and I should have made the that clear when I posted it. I didn't realise it had two wrong notes in it.

I would love to hear your version, Steve.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Steve_freereeder on March 25, 2019, 09:27:20 AM
Once you release an animal into the wild you cannot control what will happen to it.
Ditto a tune...
Yes, I know and I agree with your reasoning. But with a tune, if it's really that important to you as a composer exactly how it should be played (as is the case with WTTH), then I think it's worthwhile making sure that when it's released it is accompanied by written music notation and perhaps a recording. At least it might stand a fighting chance of being played as you intended by more musicians.

Conversely, if you are more relaxed about your tunes, it's interesting to see how they develop in the hands of other musicians. Cue one of my own tunes 'Trip to Stowmarket' (https://soundcloud.com/steve_freereeder/trip-to-stowmarket-ponytrot) - it's a pretty basic tune with no real hidden subtleties. It is already being played by other musicians and has even appeared in a popular East Anglian album (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Borrowed-Shoes-PolkaWorks/dp/B01MS1Z6WY), which is most gratifying. But all the renditions I've heard are slightly different from how I first conceived it - which is OK!  :Ph
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on March 25, 2019, 09:37:38 AM
...I'm pretty sure we've discussed this tune before on this forum. ..

For those new to this discussion, hopefully, this  will take you to the right page

https://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,7676.60.html
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Stiamh on March 25, 2019, 10:24:11 AM
I stand chastened.

 :-[ I hadn't actually registered that the ABCs had been supplied by you, Greg! Sorry for the hard wording. :|glug
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on March 25, 2019, 10:46:17 AM
I stand chastened.

 :-[ I hadn't actually registered that the ABCs had been supplied by you, Greg! Sorry for the hard wording. :|glug

None taken  :D. Fair criticism.

I would still recommend taking any transcription with lots of NaCl, though. There are countless examples. Captain Francis O'Neill's little books comes to mind. I believe he fell out with James O'Neill big time over "weaknesses" in his transcriptions :|bl.

I remember rushing out to buy tunes books by my favourite bands back in the 60s/70s and being discombobulated when the transcriptions weren't just like the records.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Saul Bailey on March 26, 2019, 08:04:25 PM
...maybe people should just take the license to play it how they want...? It's folk music after all...
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Eshed on March 26, 2019, 08:18:31 PM
...maybe people should just take the license to play it how they want...? It's folk music after all...
It's like free speech, people can play whatever they want, however they want, but there's no obligation to listen to them. 
There's a clear difference between deviating from a source due to a conscious choice, due to musical evolution and due to negligence.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Thrupenny Bit on March 26, 2019, 08:34:44 PM
Yes, I agree Saul.
Q
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on March 26, 2019, 09:09:31 PM
...maybe people should just take the license to play it how they want...? It's folk music after all...
It's like free speech, people can play whatever they want, however they want, but there's no obligation to listen to them. 
There's a clear difference between deviating from a source due to a conscious choice, due to musical evolution and due to negligence.

I feel compelled to point out, there are only two notes being objected to here. However, if you compare the setting in the Blowzabella tune book with what Blowzabella actually play there are loads of differences. If I had paid money for the tune book expecting to find their version of the tune I would be far more disappointed than coming across two wrong notes in a score, noted by ear, posted on line.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Dick Rees on March 26, 2019, 10:16:11 PM
Begging your indulgence and forgiveness in advance, I'll post my own very personal outlook with 70+ years of hindsight.  One of my mentors for whom I played guitar and with whom I learned the fiddle put it this way:

"With the fiddle the left hand is the artisan, the right hand the artist."
...Joseph LaBrosse

  Given the similarities between the bow and the bellows, I translate/transpose this to the accordion as the right hand is the artisan, the left hand the artist.  And as both fiddler and box-skweezer I would call attention to phrasing, articulation and dynamics as being the essential elements of musicality.

 Music is more than playing the right notes in the right order.



Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: playandteach on March 26, 2019, 11:47:27 PM
I fully understand your point, Dick.
Though I retain the right not to worry about even the right notes in the right order. Otherwise I might as well go and do something that I'm good at (but perhaps mightn't enjoy as much).
[At this point I should use some sort of emoticon to show my good nature, great sense of humour etc. but I can't bring myself to use them - emoticons that is. Or even exclamation marks, apparently - just tried but I'm hardwired against them.]
Looking forward to the next TOTM already.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Stiamh on March 26, 2019, 11:56:04 PM
I feel compelled to point out, there are only two notes being objected to here.

You're making me giggle with your two wrong notes, Greg. Two wrong notes may not seem like much to a statistician or an accountant, but what they add up to in this case is a musical phrase that makes no sense, goes nowhere, lets the tune die in mid flow. In such a well crafted tune the phrase stands out like a boil on a beautiful face.

That is what is being objected to. Personally, I couldn't give a fig for how many other little differences there are between that transcription and what is in the tunebook. Play the transcription as written and you get a lovely tune - except for that aberration that you are passing off as a minor faff or less than three wrong notes  ;)

I defy you to play the tune with that phrase in it and make it sound like there isn't something gravely amiss!
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Fred on March 26, 2019, 11:59:00 PM
Or even exclamation marks, apparently - just tried but I'm hardwired against them.

I strongly agree with Mr. Pratchett on this issue:

"The basic idea is that a person's sanity is inversely proportional to the number of exclamation marks they use
[...]
'And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five? A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head.'"
Source (https://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/index.php/Multiple_exclamation_marks)

So keep your pure sanity, pnt, as you rightfully refuse to use any exclamation marks.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on March 27, 2019, 12:17:51 AM
I feel compelled to point out, there are only two notes being objected to here.

You're making me giggle with your two wrong notes, Greg. Two wrong notes may not seem like much to a statistician or an accountant, but what they add up to in this case is a musical phrase that makes no sense, goes nowhere, lets the tune die in mid flow. In such a well crafted tune the phrase stands out like a boil on a beautiful face.

That is what is being objected to. Personally, I couldn't give a fig for how many other little differences there are between that transcription and what is in the tunebook. Play the transcription as written and you get a lovely tune - except for that aberration that you are passing off as a minor faff or less than three wrong notes  ;)

I defy you to play the tune with that phrase in it and make it sound like there isn't something gravely amiss!

 ;D Yes. But they're pretty obviously wrong when you try to play them. Worse things happen at sea.

Edit: Actually, what I'm really thinking is , yes, it was an incorrectly transcribed phrase but that's fairly trivial. I spotted it straight away and found it straight forward to sort out. What is really bugging me is that I prefer the way  Blowzabella play this tune, as a group, to the way that Mr Shepherd does it in other performances. I have been trying to get their setting (which is driven by Gregory's playing) off for most of the month but, for some reason, it is defeating me. I hoped that eyeballing the score from the Blowzabella tunebook would help, but it's left me no wiser. I am sure it's a copyright thing but it frustrates me.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Thrupenny Bit on March 27, 2019, 07:17:17 AM
I've already stated my point that things - tunes - mutate in the wild, and as Saul says, it is folk music.
But.... I suppose it depends on *which* notes or phrases have mutated.
I'm reminded of a favourite tune, Brass Monkey's version of The Waterman's Hornpipe. The tune ( in G ) revolves around a low F nat. Get that wrong and the essence of the tune is lost.
You can fudge/mutate/corrupt other notes in the tune, but not that note and phrase!
Q

Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Eshed on March 27, 2019, 08:37:06 AM
I feel compelled to point out, there are only two notes being objected to here. However, if you compare the setting in the Blowzabella tune book with what Blowzabella actually play there are loads of differences. If I had paid money for the tune book expecting to find their version of the tune I would be far more disappointed than coming across two wrong notes in a score, noted by ear, posted on line.
This was never aimed at you, as your response wasn't "Don't tell me how to play things, this is folk music!" but
;D Yes. But they're pretty obviously wrong when you try to play them. Worse things happen at sea.
It's likely that I make mistakes more than anyone else in this thread. It'll be preposterous to say I'm playing superbly just because it's folk music.
Similarly, I suspect many of you have seen a guitar player with a chords book they've printed off of the internet playing songs with their eyes only, giving their ears a rest. This is not music, folk or other, this is just eye-hand practice.
We don't get a carte blanche to play folk music in any conceivable way we want, only in ways that make sense or sound good. It might be that to Saul, who has more musical talent that I could ever hope of achieving, these are nearly the same, as it's truly inconceivable that he'd want play in a way that doesn't sound good. For us mere mortals, that is not the case.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Julian S on March 27, 2019, 09:06:00 AM
When I started playing many moons ago, I learned virtually everything by ear - there weren't many tunebooks available for one thing ! I'm sure I ended up mislearning loads of tunes (or putting my own version together I suppose), but for me the priority was to make the tune feel 'right' (whatever that means). Yep, important to get most of the right notes in the right(ish) order but there is much more to think about. For me the dots are a guide and starting point.
I don't think I have achieved my goal with this months tune, not because of whether I have hit the notes, but because the tune doesn't quite gel yet. And I agree with the comment about the Blowza vs Shepherd versions.
I'm pretty certain that quite a number of us have learned and maybe improved through playing the tune - I think I have, not least because of the amount of time I devoted to it. Thats great in itself.

I suppose I'd better go and relearn Tabletop and overrule my fiddler friend who prefers the wrong notes... >:E

J
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Thrupenny Bit on March 27, 2019, 09:29:21 AM
.... and surely if Blowzabella, with a lineup of stunning musicians including Andy Cutting *and* Dave Shepherd himself play it slightly different to the quoted ' Dave Shepherd ' version doesn't that speak volumes about following strictly 'as writ' ?
I rest my case m'lud  ;)
Q
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Theo on March 27, 2019, 09:32:57 AM
I think that’s called improvisation.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on March 27, 2019, 09:42:13 AM
I think that’s called improvisation.

AKA Gregory Jolivet grabbing the tune by the throat  :D

I feel the same as Julian about this tune and my playing of it. It hasn't really gelled for me, yet. Time's running out.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: arty on March 27, 2019, 10:35:49 AM
'
Time's running out.

If I may pass comment on this....I feel, at least sometimes, that a Tune a Month is too many. Some tunes take far longer and deserve much more time to get under the fingers. It also encourages people to rush, when really, everyone is capable of so much more if they want to put the work in. Add to this, the Theme of the Month and I think some feel they need to produce two recordings per month.
Surely, the whole idea of TOM is to encourage learning and improving as well as trying music, which is out of one’s comfort zone from time to time.
I would like to see much more encouragement for each other in the discussions. It is common to see a recording posted, (and we all know the time and effort involved to do this), only for it to be completely ignored by everyone on the site. We are all learning and we can all learn from each other. Let’s do that.
If it was just down to me, I think I would have a Theme of the Month every month and a specific Tune every other month.
I’m sorry and I feel I should wear a crash helmet now, I find the current bickering about a couple of errors in the abc all rather silly. It would be so much kinder and helpful, if those with greater musical knowledge used it to help those with less, rather than criticise the good hearted people who do help.
...maybe people should just take the license to play it how they want...? It's folk music after all...
Well said Saul...”how they want” - or, how your experience and present capabilities allow you to play it.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on March 27, 2019, 11:05:58 AM
'
Time's running out.

If I may pass comment on this....I feel, at least sometimes, that a Tune a Month is too many.... Add to this, the Theme of the Month and I think some feel they need to produce two recordings per month.



Arty, I would regard TOTM as an opportunity made available, not something you have to do to be a part of it. I sometimes post The Tune and sometimes post The Theme (or something a bit like it). Sometimes I post both. Sometimes I post nothing. Others do the same.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: arty on March 27, 2019, 11:35:40 AM
That is exactly what I do Greg, except I don’t take part very often as I play a G/C because my interest is mostly French music. I was making an observation of the recordings I see posted each month and by whom, that is all.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Thrupenny Bit on March 27, 2019, 12:09:40 PM
For me just playing the tune is the start of a process of learning, not the end.
Q
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Thrupenny Bit on March 27, 2019, 12:30:04 PM
.... and like Greg sometimes I post, other times not.
I still take note and it often shows up tunes I've never heard, or tunes I've never considered playing until ToTM highlights it.
For me it's a worthwhile monthly browse, then my choice as to whether I join in or just make a mental note of a good tune to learn when I have the time.
Q
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Dick Rees on March 27, 2019, 02:03:22 PM
For me just playing the tune is the start of a process of learning, not the end.
Q

No matter how far we go, there is no end.  That's the fascination.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Thrupenny Bit on March 27, 2019, 02:40:46 PM
Indeed, thats the beauty of it!
Q
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Anahata on March 27, 2019, 04:27:10 PM
If I may pass comment on this....I feel, at least sometimes, that a Tune a Month is too many. Some tunes take far longer and deserve much more time to get under the fingers.

In addition to the wisdom already posted in response to this, let's remember that it's not a race against time and you can still post after the end of the designated month. Maybe we should be more encouraging about late postings.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Dick Rees on March 27, 2019, 05:04:55 PM
I think that’s called improvisation.

One of my favorite quotes, possibly apocryphal:

"You're making the wrong mistakes."
...Thelonius Monk
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Squeaky Pete on March 27, 2019, 08:43:53 PM
I'm enjoying this month's totm. It's not a tune I would have tried and I don't have the low notes on my box anyway.
I can appreciate the sound and the control on the one row (one of my favourites) and the smoothness of the big Italian boxes. There are certainly no disappointments.
One day I'll post my own contribution, but the only way I can record is on my phone, and have to confess it makes my pokerwork sound dreadful.
It's gratifying to hear some of the most impressive recordings took so many takes. It gives me hope.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: playandteach on March 27, 2019, 09:41:33 PM
Just for the sake of those who don't get comments on their TOTM posts, I do listen to them all. Not always all the way through, but I do check everyone's out. Sometimes I'm listening for the box, sometimes the playing, sometimes to see how they are getting on, sometimes to admire - and never with the intent of disliking or looking for points to criticise.
The same with reading comments here, I try not to assume that someone is posting stuff I will just disagree with (before I've read it). I don't always get it right but when I think I've offended someone I've apologised.
This is a rare site, otherwise I wouldn't spend so much time here.

There is another saying: least said soonest mended - which I don't agree with even though I appreciate the intent.
I would rather say more (if you hadn't guessed) and back down if I've got it wrong.
Least said soonest mended would end up with a monastic feel.
Joke:
In a monastery with a vow of silence, the monks are allowed only one comment per year.
Year 1, Monk 1 says: I love it here but the porridge would be better with salt.
Year 2, Monk 2 says: I would rather have my porridge with sugar.
Year 3, Monk 3 says: I'm fed up with this constant bickering.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Ransom on March 30, 2019, 01:31:43 AM
I liked this one, and I think I can just about play it now. =)

https://youtu.be/VyoX-43a0fQ
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Dick Rees on March 30, 2019, 01:43:26 AM
I liked this one, and I think I can just about play it now. =)

https://youtu.be/VyoX-43a0fQ

You're well on your way!  Sounds good.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Fred on March 30, 2019, 01:51:42 AM
I liked this one, and I think I can just about play it now. =)

https://youtu.be/VyoX-43a0fQ

Congratulations on getting such a nice recording under your belt. This is a tough tune to play and you have already gotten very far with it. One thing you could work on would be the transitions into the arpeggios. The rhythm is a bit off in these parts. Thanks for sharing this, it was really nice to listen to.

Just for the sake of those who don't get comments on their TOTM posts, I do listen to them all.

Just wanted to add that I also do this. I always listen to every single recording uploaded for TotM. Everyone on here, please keep on doing what you do. It's a pleasure to listen to your playing and I always find the time spent listening to your music to be thoroughly enjoyable.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Ransom on March 30, 2019, 02:00:11 AM
Congratulations on getting such a nice recording under your belt. This is a tough tune to play and you have already gotten very far with it. One thing you could work on would be the transitions into the arpeggios. The rhythm is a bit off in these parts. Thanks for sharing this, it was really nice to listen to.

I actually sat down and got three decent takes in fifteen minutes. So I do feel pretty encouraged. I think I did better on the rhythm into the arpeggios in one of my other takes, but it had some different flubs that you wouldn't have minded as much, but I didn't care for. =)

I tell you, on those arpeggios, it doesn't look like much, but it feels awfully clever when I use my thumb to play 'em!
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: LoonBox on March 30, 2019, 05:31:09 AM

I tell you, on those arpeggios, it doesn't look like much, but it feels awfully clever when I use my thumb to play 'em!

Thanks for pointing that out, I had to watch it again. It's a clever way to do it. I just tried using my thumb for the first time to play the accidental in Jump the Sun. Also the first time I've used an accidental so it left me feeling pretty clever also. I'm just trying to get up to speed with all the possibilities.

You were doing some interesting left hand chords and rhythms that are beyond me for now but I can appreciate. It is neat to hear all the interpretations and to listen thoughtfully.  I'm encouraged and motivated by the kind responses here, very appreciative of the community.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Stiamh on March 30, 2019, 11:52:04 AM
One thing you could work on would be the transitions into the arpeggios. The rhythm is a bit off in these parts.

Fred is correct - what you have done Ransom is insert two extra beats in bar B8 by playing a long G (half-note or minim) before the upward run instead of starting the upward run on that G. You have thus succeeded in making a new, "crooked" version of the tune - a time-honoured tradition in my neck of the woods!

You'll see the problem if you count 1-2-3 all the way through the second part - as soon as the upward run begins we're off track. Fix that and you'll have a very creditable performance.

Edited to say long G (Am version)
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Ransom on March 30, 2019, 02:11:59 PM
You were doing some interesting left hand chords and rhythms that are beyond me for now but I can appreciate. It is neat to hear all the interpretations and to listen thoughtfully.  I'm encouraged and motivated by the kind responses here, very appreciative of the community.
I'm glad you like it. I remember it took a while for anything to come together, but now everything seems so natural that I can't recall what the problem ever was.

The long Press F in measure 14 of A and B was kind of surprising. (for G/D in Em: Press C).

I think one of the keys to success for this arrangement is to keep the bass very light in the first half of the A part. 1-3 and 5-7 are all drawing out, and if I use much left hand at all, my arm runs out before I can gather it back in on bar 8.

One thing you could work on would be the transitions into the arpeggios. The rhythm is a bit off in these parts.

Fred is correct - what you have done Ransom is insert two extra beats in bar B8 by playing a long G (half-note or minim) before the upward run instead of starting the upward run on that G. You have thus succeeded in making a new, "crooked" version of the tune - a time-honoured tradition in my neck of the woods!

You'll see the problem if you count 1-2-3 all the way through the second part - as soon as the upward run begins we're off track. Fix that and you'll have a very creditable performance.

Ohho! This was the explanation I needed to notice what you were talking about. Wow! How did I miss that? =)
What's happened, of course, is that B8 has picked up the first beat of the parallel phrase in B4. That might take some work to retrain...

Fortunately, no mazurka dancers were harmed during the production of this travesty. =P
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: LoonBox on March 31, 2019, 12:12:57 AM
[quote author=Dick Rees link=topic=23601.msg281871#msg281871 date=1552332570

Edit for fingering:  Phrasing is more 4/2 rather than 3/3 with the index finger taking the fourth note in each bar.

a |
| e
| c
A |
| E
| C

g |
| d
| B
G |
| D
| B

f |
| c
| A
F |
| C
| A

I find the symmetry evens out the phrasing as well as making the shift of hand position a bit more ergonomic.
[/quote]

This is a nice way you found, both the fingering and notation. Thank you for posting the update.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Wolfgang on March 31, 2019, 01:18:29 PM
Here's my humble attempt. I was slightly hesitant to post after the discussion here. Anyway, its only one single playthrough so not really a proper recording and only one take and unprocessed with the in-camera mic, but not too bad considering the red light was on. It is also my first ever recording of the melodeon, I'm planning to get some more hopefully.

This piece is slightly out of my comfort Zone, I usually Play French stuff. But it was interesting to try and see how far I can get within a month.

Thanks for all your contributions on the forum. I get huge inspiration from you guys. I listen to all recordings here and I think the TOTM is a wonderful idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gP6SLZRW3U
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: playandteach on March 31, 2019, 02:03:47 PM
Very nicely done, Wolfgang. I assume when you say it's your first recording on the melodeon that you also play other instruments? And when you say you mainly play French music, is that for your own enjoyment or do you play with others?
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Wolfgang on March 31, 2019, 03:03:39 PM
Very nicely done, Wolfgang. I assume when you say it's your first recording on the melodeon that you also play other instruments? And when you say you mainly play French music, is that for your own enjoyment or do you play with others?

Thanks very much. I used to play classical guitar, but not anymore. For now, since I'm rather new to the instrument, I play only for myself. Maybe later I'll find someone to jam with :)
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Jackhumphreys on March 31, 2019, 04:53:03 PM
Here's my humble attempt. I was slightly hesitant to post after the discussion here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gP6SLZRW3U

Thanks Wolfgang. I really liked your chording and gentle interpretation. It's a French style dance after all, so your French experience helps a lot.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Clive Williams on April 01, 2019, 08:48:39 AM
Thank you all - great stuff this month; certainly more submissions than I expected. Keep it up! On to the next theme; late contributions gratefully received as ever - just post on the end of this thread.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Ellisteph on April 19, 2019, 11:58:17 AM
Okay I'm a slow learner. It was those damned arpeggios; still a hiccup on the last one but I think this is as good as I'm going to get. I found this tune challenging to learn but then that's just what TOTM should be IMHO.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZVJVBASxEo
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Stiamh on April 19, 2019, 12:44:54 PM
Okay I'm a slow learner. It was those damned arpeggios; still a hiccup on the last one but I think this is as good as I'm going to get. I found this tune challenging to learn but then that's just what TOTM should be IMHO.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZVJVBASxEo

Nicely done - box sounds great too.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Dick Rees on April 19, 2019, 01:08:36 PM
Okay I'm a slow learner. It was those damned arpeggios; still a hiccup on the last one but I think this is as good as I'm going to get. I found this tune challenging to learn but then that's just what TOTM should be IMHO.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZVJVBASxEo

Nice pulse in the bellows.
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: Ellisteph on April 19, 2019, 03:42:59 PM
Grateful thanks to both for your kind comments.
Pulse in the bellows - heart in the mouth - would I get through it?!
Title: Re: Tune of the Month for March 2019: Origin of the World
Post by: playandteach on April 19, 2019, 05:43:25 PM
Worth waiting for.