Melodeon.net Forums

Discussions => Teaching and Learning => Topic started by: Reece Johnson on June 08, 2019, 12:59:47 AM

Title: what can I play?
Post by: Reece Johnson on June 08, 2019, 12:59:47 AM
hello.

i'm new to the melodeon. when looking for songs to play I cannot find anything that fits within the range of my
bass even after transposing. i'm looking for songs other than the stereotypical irish , English , Scottish reels etc.
one of the tunes I want to learn is the theme from monkey island. and I have seen it done on this video (video below) but I cannot
figure out how to play it as well as what the limitations of my instrument are. with piano accordion its a matter of "oh
I need a cm" and that's it a cm is there but with melodeon a lot of the chords are majors.

I currently own a hohner corona 3r  g/c/f although i'm looking into getting a club tuned one or might even try to get my g/c/f
retuned although I think that will just be more costly however having more pre-made basses sounds pretty good to me.


but yeah what are my options for this box?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk7CPvl4SQU
Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: Lester on June 08, 2019, 07:46:14 AM
On a G/C/F you can play any of the ~500 tunes from HERE (https://lesters-tune-a-day.blogspot.com/p/tune-index.html) albeit in different keys as they are mostly played on a D/G. The tunes are almost entirely played up and down the row so will move from one instrument to another.
Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: Sebastian on June 08, 2019, 08:56:36 AM
when looking for songs to play I cannot find anything that fits within the range of my bass even after transposing.

I currently own a hohner corona 3r  g/c/f
With a GCF you can play all you want. First step is to understand how to form minor chords on the bass side: You combine the bass note of the minor chord with the major chord a minor third up. For example: to form a G minor chord you play the G bass and the Bb chord. Both exist on the pull as you need it to play in D minor.

Could you provide the concrete notes for a tune and write where exactly you have a problem?
Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: Rob Lands on June 08, 2019, 09:06:09 AM
Are you talking about your Bass voice range?  CF is a reasonable Key for the higher male voice.  If so, its a question of working out what keys/ note range you are happy with first.
Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: playandteach on June 08, 2019, 09:08:05 AM
Could you list a bunch of tunes you are interested in learning and then we might be able to help. We might suggest alternative chords or alternative keys or similar songs etc.
If the one device you find yourself liking (which I suspect may be the case) is modulations to distant keys, then that can cause problems. I'm not sure how a club system will improve matters. Depending on your experience on other instruments, willingness to stick at it and budget maybe a 12 bass is worth considering.
Most of us picked up the melodeon because of hearing someone play something we liked. Who would you wish to play like?
Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: Eshed on June 08, 2019, 10:23:29 AM
Hi Reece,
The above tune specifically is played on a C/F club but uses an Eb chord which isn't available on a G/C/F. I'm pretty sure you could transpose it to Am and then you have Bb (both chord and note).
You still don't have the Fm chord, but I'm faking it as well (actually Bbm on the scale of Dm) by just pressing the bass button.

I don't think the club box allows that much more than a three row one, so if you do get a club box you will soon find new tunes you can't play. The diatonic boxes are ridiculously limited in terms of bass accompaniment (if, like me, you care about that) and moderately limited in terms of notes available.
Well, except B/C/C# I suppose, but I think that's an entirely different kind of beast.
Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: Sebastian on June 08, 2019, 03:57:59 PM
The diatonic boxes are ridiculously limited in terms of bass accompaniment
I would like to disagree a bit to this sentence (not to the rest of what Eshed wrote; I agree particularly on the idea to try to play Monkey Island in A on a GCF box).

The club bass layout provides the three main chords for three major keys and one minor key (+ many additional chords as well). The three-row bass layout provides the three main chords for three major keys and two minor keys.

On a GCF you have all necessary chords to play in the key of G major, in the key of C major, in the key of F major as well as in the key of D minor and the key of A minor.

(A CF Club box is for playing in the keys of C major, F major, Bb major [hence the Eb major chord mentioned by Eshed] and D minor.)
Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: Dick Rees on June 08, 2019, 04:48:54 PM
In playing music for nearly 70 years, I find limitations in the instrumental mechanics and in my understanding/perception of the tunes.  There are simple pieces which lose a lot when played with both hands on a diatonic box...and there are seemingly complex tunes which can be done quite well IF you let the box tell you how it wants to go.

We learn tunes in a genre or style and conciously or subconciously establish patterns in our playing as we build repertoire.  Then there are those moments when we somehow come upon something that breaks a pattern in a surprising and significant way, a fortuitous accident which brings the whole process into sharper focus and informs all which has come before.

I live for these "can do" moments.
Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on June 08, 2019, 05:22:04 PM
Eshed seems to be coping ok.

A club box only has 8 basses, same as simple  ordinary two rows.

Maybe a Handry would suit you?

https://folkworlpian.com/handry-44-18

Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: Sebastian on June 08, 2019, 05:51:14 PM
A club box only has 8 basses, same as simple  ordinary two rows.
That’s wrong.
Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on June 08, 2019, 06:03:16 PM
A club box only has 8 basses, same as simple  ordinary two rows.
That’s wrong.

I am happy to stand corrected. I should have said "the club boxes I have seen".
Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: Theo on June 08, 2019, 06:17:14 PM
Usually club boxes have 8 basses but the layout is different from standard 8 bass on a two row.
Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: Sebastian on June 08, 2019, 06:31:36 PM
I should have said "the club boxes I have seen".
No. You saw eight bass buttons like on a two row, but the note layout is different. Speaking in D/G terms: On the two buttons, where a two-row D/G melodeon has the C bass and C major chord (on push and on pull), a Club melodeon has the C bass and the C major chord only on the pull, but has on push an F bass and an F major chord. This F major chord is the missing chord for playing in the key of C major.

A Club box is de facto a 'three tonalities' melodeon for playing in the three related tonalities of D, G and C, just like a three-row accordion in DGC. (Well, in fact, Club accordions are mostly in the keys of CF(Bb) and BbEb(Ab), but the internal relations stay the same.) What can be done on a Club box can (grosso modo) also be done on a three-row and vice versa. The differences concern essentially fingering patterns and amount of buttons/reeds/weight.
Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: GPS on June 08, 2019, 08:02:35 PM
there are seemingly complex tunes which can be done quite well IF you let the box tell you how it wants to go.



Spot on!    (:) (Need a "thumbs up" emoji!)

Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: Anahata on June 09, 2019, 12:09:17 AM
Not quite the same as "ANY complex tune can be played on a two row" - the trick is (a) to choose your tunes carefully and (b) learn how to fake around chords you don't have.
Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: playandteach on June 09, 2019, 12:22:24 AM
Are we in danger of putting off a newcomer to both the forum and the instrument with confusing subtleties? I'd say welcome to a great bunch of experienced and friendly souls who are going to guide you through this bizarre but rewarding journey. You will probably find that you eventually embrace the limitations and contrary to what you currently think you may even get to enjoy the traditional repertoire. But even if you don't, your views and questions will always be welcome. You are tomorrow's expert.
Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: Pete Dunk on June 09, 2019, 09:22:06 AM
Hi Reece, welcome to the forum. It may be worth investigating a 3 row 12 bass box with a stop to take the thirds out of the chords. Playing across keys is certainly possible to some extent (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuVOanmsjSY).
Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on June 09, 2019, 09:25:22 AM
Hey, hey, Reece. You stirred things up a bit! Nice one.

From what you say,  you already have a bunch of musical skills on the PA. What is you repertoire like on that and what made you feel you fancied something different? Any examples? This might make sensible comment easier.
Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: Reece Johnson on June 09, 2019, 06:06:02 PM
sry for not responding I've been real busy.


my repertoire on PA is huge so there's some things that can be easily play eg. chicken dance. however other things not so much. one song I would love to learn is the theme from monkey island and the le chuck theme. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjTV5TZLjJw&t=2s) although this one I'm unsure of as I haven't really looked yet. the main problem with songs is the lack of minor chords. eg. an easy song on accordion is katyusha but on gcf I have a d minor and a minor but no g minor. etc.

as for the instrument itself I like the bisonoric nature of it. as well as the fact that they are quite clever in that with a cgf or club they add reversals on so you can play in either direction.in total its must a cool instrument.

especially with the monkey theme i'm currently learning it on PA so it's not really a big thing but owning a instrument which sort of fits the tune (pirates) is just kinda cool.
Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on June 09, 2019, 08:00:22 PM
sry for not responding I've been real busy.

...the main problem with songs is the lack of minor chords. eg. an easy song on accordion is katyusha but on gcf I have a d minor and a minor but no g minor. etc...


The normal way of coping with missing minor chords is to play the root note of the chord on the bass keys, coupled with the major chord whose root is a minor  third up from the minor chord you want. Clear as mud?

In practice, this means that, to get a G minor, you play the bass G note plus the Bb major chord. I think these are both available on your instrument (I am a DG player, so I am going by the layouts available from the melnet home page).

The notes you get by doing this are G, Bb, D and F. When combined, the chord you get is actually Gminor7. This is accepted as a near enough compromise by the vast majority of melodeon players. 

The same principle can be applied to get the other key missing minor chords you are  likely to need playing the easily accessible minor modes (the aeolian and dorian) of the fundemental keys of G, C and F.

For instance you get Dm7 by playing D bass with F major, you get Am7 by playing A bass with C major.
You soon get into the habit of doing this.

Of course, this only works where you have the bass combinations available in the same direction. I don't know for sure what chords you have. I'm looking at this layout http://forum.melodeon.net/files/site/gcf31corona.gif It may be nothing like yours.

[Edit: Just noticed you already have a Dm and an Am, but the principle still applies. Anyway, the m7 gives variety, which makes for a spicey life. You are likely to find a bit of creativity like this useful]
Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: Dick Rees on June 09, 2019, 08:25:58 PM
sry for not responding I've been real busy.

...the main problem with songs is the lack of minor chords. eg. an easy song on accordion is katyusha but on gcf I have a d minor and a minor but no g minor. etc...


The normal way of coping with missing minor chords is to play the root note of the chord on the bass keys, coupled with the major chord whose root is a minor  third up from the minor chord you want. Clear as mud?

In practice, this means that, to get a G minor, you play the bass G note plus the Bb major chord. I think these are both available on your instrument (I am a DG player, so I am going by the layouts available from the melnet home page).

The notes you get by doing this are G, Bb, D and F. When combined, the chord you get is actually Gminor7. This is accepted as a near enough compromise by the vast majority of melodeon players. 

The same principle can be applied to get the other key missing minor chords you are  likely to need playing the easily accessible minor modes (the aeolian and dorian) of the fundemental keys of G, C and F.

For instance you get Dm7 by playing D bass with F major, you get Am7 by playing A bass with C major.
You soon get into the habit of doing this.

Of course, this only works where you have the bass combinations available in the same direction. I don't know for sure what chords you have. I'm looking at this layout http://forum.melodeon.net/files/site/gcf31corona.gif It may be nothing like yours.

[Edit: Just noticed you already have a Dm and an Am, but the principle still applies. Anyway, the m7 gives variety, which makes for a spicey life. You are likely to find a bit of creativity like this useful]

Exactly.

Then there are a half-dozen or so playing tricks to overcome the seeming contradictions of differing directions for bass notes and triads as well as working your arrangement and phrasing to raise expectations for a particular chord and then make it appear to be there when you simply thicken the RH and/or substitute a beat of LH silence or use only a light percussive button flip rather than a triad.

A lot of the "suggestion by phrasing" involves how you set up the RH.  Then, too, anticipating or delaying a melody note by half a beat can leave you room to fit in something in the LH which if both hands sync to the beat would be less functional.

There's a lot of sleight of hand and auditory trickery which can be brought to bear.  An implication can be as good as the note/sound itself if you set up the expectation by arrangement.

I would recommend finding and studying pieces of interest played on various diatonic boxes to focus on how experienced players approach things.  Study what can and is being done before trying to adapt your chromatic experience to a diatonic approach.  It really is a different instrument, not a lesser instrument.  Open yourself to it.
Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on June 09, 2019, 09:23:57 PM

...There's a lot of sleight of hand and auditory trickery which can be brought to bear.  An implication can be as good as the note/sound itself if you set up the expectation b arrangement.


Anahata is a master of this. It's worth having a root around for some of his videos. One of him playing F chords on a DG comes to mind. I still don't really know where his F chords come from. I think it's voodoo.
Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: Anahata on June 09, 2019, 10:54:06 PM
The only example that comes to mind is Vedder Michel (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3XVvRZJrYk) when I go into C the 2nd time through the tune.
That's a RH only F chord, and relies on my having an F♮ on pull; then you have the A and C on the G row to make up the chord.
There's no bass, but for that sort of comedy stunt you don't really need it.
And what Dick Rees said, too:
Quote
An implication can be as good as the note/sound itself if you set up the expectation by arrangement.
Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on June 09, 2019, 11:06:59 PM

The only example that comes to mind is Vedder Michel (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3XVvRZJrYk) when I go into C the 2nd time through the tune.


It might have been that [actually, yes, that was what I had in mind]. It was something that changed key to a none DG standard key. Whatever it was I was seriously impressed at the time and never forgot how effective it was. Like most of  melnet it moved from now to a memory very quickly, with no easy way of restoration. I wish there was a sticky guide to "clever" stuff.
Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: Dick Rees on June 10, 2019, 12:52:12 AM
The only example that comes to mind is Vedder Michel (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3XVvRZJrYk) when I go into C the 2nd time through the tune.
That's a RH only F chord, and relies on my having an F♮ on pull; then you have the A and C on the G row to make up the chord.
There's no bass, but for that sort of comedy stunt you don't really need it.
And what Dick Rees said, too:
Quote
An implication can be as good as the note/sound itself if you set up the expectation by arrangement.

When faced with arranging things involving a RH chord or other such "remedy" I often find that working one or more other  similar iterations into the piece tends to diffuse the impact or soften the focus of a single such occurence. 

In the Vedder Michel example (certainly a masterful arrangement) I would look to mirror, echo or repeat the phenomenon of the RH F chord so as to draw attention away from the F and make it equal to another chord using the RH even though such a chord or chords could be found in the LH.  IOW, you uave made the F an equal partner in the arrangement without it being such a singular occurence.
Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: Anahata on June 10, 2019, 01:01:41 AM
I would look to mirror, echo or repeat the phenomenon of the RH F chord so as to draw attention away from the F and make it equal to another chord using the RH even though such a chord or chords could be found in the LH.  IOW, you have made the F an equal partner in the arrangement without it being such a singular occurence.

Yes, that's exactly the kind of thing I took you to mean when you were talking about setting up expectations, and if I was to spend more time working that tune up into a performance arrangement, I'd certainly look at such possibilities.
Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: Dick Rees on June 10, 2019, 01:09:19 AM
I would look to mirror, echo or repeat the phenomenon of the RH F chord so as to draw attention away from the F and make it equal to another chord using the RH even though such a chord or chords could be found in the LH.  IOW, you have made the F an equal partner in the arrangement without it being such a singular occurence.

Yes, that's exactly the kind of thing I took you to mean when you were talking about setting up expectations, and if I was to spend more time working that tune up into a performance arrangement, I'd certainly look at such possibilities.

Yup.  Sorry to be so verbose.
Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: Anahata on June 10, 2019, 06:37:12 AM
No need to apologise, I was just enjoying two minds thinking alike!
Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: Sebastian on June 10, 2019, 09:00:20 AM
my repertoire on PA is huge so there's some things that can be easily play eg. chicken dance. however other things not so much. one song I would love to learn is the theme from monkey island and the le chuck theme. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjTV5TZLjJw&t=2s)
If you could provide the PA notation for those two tunes, the forum would come up with concrete ways how to play them on your box.
Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on June 10, 2019, 10:44:12 AM
I bet Eshed could help.
Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: Sebastian on June 10, 2019, 11:07:35 AM
I found the notes for the Monkey Island Theme here (http://easymusic.altervista.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/DD.gif). It is notated in A minor. The chords used are: Am G F C Dm E Bb. From the Hohner Website I downloaded the note layout page for the GCF Corona (https://www.hohner.de/fileadmin/documents/instruments/accordions/diatonic/corona/corona-ii/hohner-accordions-corona-ii-fingering-chart.pdf). All chords are present on the base side.

The song should be playable if you start on the outer row on button 6 (in the Hohner diagram) on the pull. In the second half of the mesure the chord switches to G. You could stay on the pull and play buttons 16, 15, 24, or you could switch to push and play buttons 6, 25, 5. The second measure starts with an F chord which you have only on the push. In the melody play button 25.

If you proceed like that, where do you encounter problems?
Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: Eshed on June 10, 2019, 11:30:23 AM
I bet Eshed could help.
Disappointingly, Eshed plays by ear.
Since the theme can be played (as shown in my video), I'll focus on the Lechuck theme.
The notes are less of a problem but the chords in Am will be

Am B F E
Am B Dm E
Am B Dm Am
F E Dm E
Dm E Am
F>>E>>Am...

Note how F is always followed by E, and it happens frequently so we need two semitone-apart chords.
Looking at the Corona, we have two options - F and E or Bb and A. The first has a distinct lack of B, but the second seems to have all necessary chords so we transpose into Dm
Dm E Bb A
Dm E Gm A
Dm E Gm Dm
Bb A Gm A
Gm A Dm
Bb>>A>>Dm...

Everything except Gm seems to be available off the bat and Greg has already explained how Gm7 is possible.
I haven't touched melody note directions etc. which might make everything a bit annoying (especially as you will have to use the C# and G# accidentals).

On a regular 2-row it's nigh impossible without making too many alterations to my taste, on a club box you have the basses but it is positively annoying because the accidentals are out to get you.
Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: Eshed on June 10, 2019, 11:35:34 AM
I found the notes for the Monkey Island Theme here (http://easymusic.altervista.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/DD.gif)
These notes conveniently stop midtune right before a Fm chord :D, but as mentioned before, I'm also faking it around second 38 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk7CPvl4SQU&feature=youtu.be&t=38) of the video.
Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: Sebastian on June 10, 2019, 11:42:14 AM
Note how F is always followed by E, and it happens frequently so we need two semitone-apart chords.
Looking at the Corona, we have two options - F and E or Bb and A. The first has a distinct lack of B, but the second seems to have all necessary chords so we transpose into Dm
I think you describe the way to follow.

These notes conveniently stop midtune right before a Fm chord :D
Very inconvenient. :|bl Then I’ll wait for Reece to produce a fuller score. (:)
Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: Howard Jones on June 10, 2019, 03:01:48 PM
You have to remember that the melodeon was designed to be cheap to make and easy to play simple diatonic music.  That made it very suitable for the popular music of that period, but when popular music became more chromatic it fell out of favour, except for folk music.  Nevertheless, it is possible to play music of some complexity, but it will always be limited by comparison with a fully chromatic instrument such as the PA or CBA. 

In particular, with only 8 bass buttons your chord choices will inevitably be constrained.  There are ways to fudge chords, as already explained, and sometimes you just have to make do with the chord which fits best even if it isn't the proper one.  You may have to transpose, and sometimes the best key isn't the most obvious, especially when playing in minor keys. 

If you are determined to play more complex music then having a 3rd accidental row (rather than one in another diatonic key) will increase the options on the right hand, and having 12 or 18 basses will increase the chord options.  However you are then starting to drift towards what your PA is already capable of. 

Part of the challenge of melodeon is trying to find ways around its limitations, however you have to accept that some tunes just won't be possible, they are not what the instrument was designed for.  However as the link in the original post shows, 'Monkey Island' can be played on a melodeon.  The differences between club and standard layout aren't so great that they can't be got around.  Study the video - he seems to be using different combinations of chord buttons to achieve non-standard chords - and try to work out what can be done on your own box.
Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: Chris Ryall on June 11, 2019, 03:12:27 PM
With a big right end like your's I'd strongly advise taping 3rds out of your chords. You have a rich pallate of chords on right end, and when playing melody … sticking a spare finger into a Bb to give that Gm feel is easily learned. I'd suggest Bb + F if feasible!

You only need the tiniest touch and the listener will hear the whole chord. As Anahata says, fake harmony is one of the great joys of the instrument. Also "little bellows shakes". Amazing how often these afford a pleasant, and easy accent or decoration, even when not playing in main row keys.
Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: Sebastian on June 11, 2019, 08:41:33 PM
With a big right end like your's I'd strongly advise taping 3rds out of your chords.
And I would strongly advise against that. After muting the thirds you would be left with only hollow fifths. The typical richness of the melodeon sound would be gone. Muting the thirds is castrating the voice of the melodeon. -- And you don't even gain usefull new chord possibilities.

Look at Eshed's examples or look at mine. You don't need to mutilate your melodeon to play the music you are interested in.
Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: Eshed on June 11, 2019, 09:06:52 PM
And you don't even gain usefull new chord possibilities.
Muting the thirds is a trade-off. As you say, you lose a certain rich quality of sound, but you definitely open up new possibilities (depending on your style, of course).
Just listen to this glorious recording of Frank Lee: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6J5x6vWuYOw
Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: Sebastian on June 11, 2019, 10:05:27 PM
but you definitely open up new possibilities
But not musically meaningful ones (outside of deep Jazz -- that's why they tend to not use normal Stradella bass accordions in jazz but often free bass systems). Chords don't occur at random. They adhere to the key you are playing in. The Club and the three-row melodeon have nearly all possible chords for the key(s) it is designed to be played in. The two-row is only a little bit simpler. If in a score appear strange chords, they are normally only superficial masks for the right chords. (The other possibility is the occurence of a harmonic shift which has to be tackled slightly differently.) Just play the right chords and add the exoctic flavour by tapping an appropriate additional note on the right hand side.

But this is all very unspecific and vague talk. Whether thirds out is a sensible option is only determinable on the basis of a concrete piece of music, a concrete musical score and it's functional analysis.
Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: Eshed on June 11, 2019, 10:10:04 PM
But this is all very unspecific and vague talk. Whether thirds out is a sensible option is only determinable on the basis of a concrete piece of music, a concrete musical score and it's functional analysis.
With this specific bit I agree.
Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: george garside on June 12, 2019, 12:05:42 AM
You have to remember that the melodeon was designed to be cheap to make and easy to play simple diatonic music.  That made it very suitable for the popular music of that period, but when popular music became more chromatic it fell out of favour, except for folk music.  Nevertheless, it is possible to play music of some complexity, but it will always be limited by comparison with a fully chromatic instrument such as the PA or CBA. 

In particular, with only 8 bass buttons your chord choices will inevitably be constrained.  There are ways to fudge chords, as already explained, and sometimes you just have to make do with the chord which fits best even if it isn't the proper one.  You may have to transpose, and sometimes the best key isn't the most obvious, especially when playing in minor keys. 

If you are determined to play more complex music then having a 3rd accidental row (rather than one in another diatonic key) will increase the options on the right hand, and having 12 or 18 basses will increase the chord options.  However you are then starting to drift towards what your PA is already capable of. 

Part of the challenge of melodeon is trying to find ways around its limitations, however you have to accept that some tunes just won't be possible, they are not what the instrument was designed for.  However as the link in the original post shows, 'Monkey Island' can be played on a melodeon.  The differences between club and standard layout aren't so great that they can't be got around.  Study the video - he seems to be using different combinations of chord buttons to achieve non-standard chords - and try to work out what can be done on your own box.

I totally agree that a bog standard 8 bass dg box has its limitations as do any other melodeon set ups be it two and abit rows or 3 rows.   Trying to play a melodeon in the same way as a piano or continental chromatic accordion whilst possibly being a challenge is often a hiding to nowhere - why not get a pinao or continental chromatic box and have done with it!

On the other hand  treating the simple 8 bass 2 row box  as a folk instrument   and accepting its liimitations can lead to a great deal of enjoyment .  Thre is absolutely no need to play 'correct bass' whatever that means and in some cases its fine to play treble only which can in many cases be enhanced with RIGHT hand chord and sod the bass. It is also perfectly acceptable to play treble only as do many Irish trad BC players.

Enjoy the melodeon for what it is  rather than trying to make it sound like something like something it isn't!

george ( probably 3 sheets to the wind after an evening of real ale!)

Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: Dick Rees on June 12, 2019, 01:39:48 AM
I play music on various instruments.  Each has its advantages and disadvantages.  For instance, I can easily harmonze RH triads spread over a tenth on a 2-row diatonic while the same intervals on my PA's are difficult if not impossible.
Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: Sebastian on June 12, 2019, 09:08:16 AM
'correct bass' whatever that means
Correct chords means chords that are interpretable as following the tunes harmonic progression.

Quote
Enjoy the melodeon for what it is  rather than trying to make it sound like something like something it isn't!
Yes. Why trying to reach sour grapes.
Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: Lester on June 12, 2019, 09:13:10 AM
'correct bass' whatever that means
Correct chords means chords that are interpretable as following the tunes harmonic progression.

As a 1 row 4 stop player the correct bass is either the only one available or none.
Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: george garside on June 12, 2019, 11:43:56 AM
to me 'correct chords' are those that are not dischords

george
Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: baz parkes on June 12, 2019, 12:33:23 PM
'correct bass' whatever that means
Correct chords means chords that are interpretable as following the tunes harmonic progression.


As a 1 row player the correct bass is either the only one available or none.

Unless you're on a 1040 when ot might be "oh it's that one..." :|glug
Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: Lester on June 12, 2019, 12:38:07 PM
'correct bass' whatever that means
Correct chords means chords that are interpretable as following the tunes harmonic progression.


As a 1 row 4 stop player the correct bass is either the only one available or none.

Unless you're on a 1040 when ot might be "oh it's that one..." :|glug


Updated my post   ;)
Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: Eshed on June 12, 2019, 01:04:54 PM
Well, in some cases even if we're the only ones left in the world, I still wouldn't press that chord.  >:E
Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: baz parkes on June 12, 2019, 03:01:47 PM
Well, in some cases even if we're the only ones left in the world, I still wouldn't press that chord.  >:E

Step away from the left hand...(unless you're left handed...) >:E >:E
Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: Sebastian on June 13, 2019, 01:48:28 PM
Correct chords means chords that are interpretable as following the tunes harmonic progression.
As a 1 row 4 stop player the correct bass is either the only one available or none.
Thank you for your kind hint. Original Poster plays 3-row 12 basses.
Title: Re: what can I play?
Post by: Chris Ryall on June 14, 2019, 02:07:44 PM
to me 'correct chords' are those that are not dischord george

Maybe,George but that's to stay totally in a comfort zone?

1. 12 bar blues - all three chords of the bass set are discords. Indeed, in say D we
     might accent that further by playing A7#9 as the turnaround cord? Works just
      fine and also present on main rows of a D/G!

2 Minor ii V progression: eg F#min,b5 | B7 | Em (again, all there on standard kit)?

3 Sus chords, clashing adjacent notes (ditto)

4 My current favourite chord Am9 on C base = Cmaj7#11 😜 Another freebie on DG

… or just Em9, or Am9 as substitutes for trichords? "Texture" is in the chord extensions
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