Melodeon.net Forums
Discussions => Instrument Design, Construction and Repair => Topic started by: Squeaky Pete on July 09, 2019, 10:21:37 PM
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While I was waiting for some bits to carry on with work on the club IIIBS, I started on a club IIB.
This was originally bought to break for the bits, but although it looks like a dog it was actually in fairly good shape. It needed rewaxing and retuning, but it sounds great now and plays very easily.
Apart from the air button.
It was very stiff and push-in style, which I found uncomfortable. My thumb complained and I found it hard to control so i looked up threads on air buttons.
I saw pictures of a Van Der Aa button with a raised bit on a wedge and thought I'd give it a try. It works a treat.
The pivot position meant I couldn't move anything much but a little trimming and a new wedgie/button feels close enough to pokerwork or Erica.
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Have been up close and personal with a Gaillard recently, though sadly without a squeeze.
It has a Castagnari style wedge and on the face where your thumb pushesi are three small dimples. Presumably along the lines of your modification.....
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Gaillard changed design of his air button to a "floating" wedge of wood in about 2005, with a really large hole. It can gulp air like a surfacing cetation. Fantastic for "mainly on the pull" play 😎
van der Aa moved in a similar direction in 2012 (having dismantled my Gaillard, previous year! 😉)! His triangular profile button is easy on the thumb. I'd prefer a larger hole.
The air button is frankly the most important one on any box. Going back to a Hohner "pencil" or Casta push IN type would drive me mad. Thumbs are not designed to push "in"?
Great modification! Manufacturers please note
[typos corrected]
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Well, my Casta I never think of 'pushing in' I move down.
In fact any part of the base of my thumb and along it's length simply moving down can gently feather or grab gob fills of air. I prefer feathering!
The triangular design simply means the more you move down the greater it is pushed in and that's what I want.
I've tried the Hohner button and find it just cramps my thumb joint and have never got on with it.
But others here will have the opposite view cos we're all different
Q
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The "in" casta button was on my "max". 😕
Guess my point is that no air button should push "in".
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The air button is frankly the most important one on any box.
Never a truer word spoken
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Ah right Chris. Nope totally agree nothing should just push in.
Yes, agree, it's the most important button on the box.
Q
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Hmm. I prefer the Hohner style button, which is totally intuitive, but I, eventually, came to terms with the Italianate wedge, though it still requires a certain amount of conscious thought. Just keep plugging away at it until it happens seems the best plan.
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I cheated and got my Erikas fitted with Italianate wedges.
Sounds like a new pair of shoes ;D
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Sounds like a new pair of shoes ;D
Do you mean that they squeak?
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No, I'm sure I've read that Italianate Wedges are the height of fashion ...
but I might be wrong of course ;)
Q
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According to my granny; "Squeaky shoes aren't paid for!"
But what would you expect from someone from the NE?
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I think Leveret recorded The Italianate Wedge on one of their early CDs
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According to my granny; "Squeaky shoes aren't paid for!"
But what would you expect from someone from the NE?
In the 1920s my granny worked in Lewis's in Manchester, she told me the same, so it must be true.
P.S. "Don't try to teach your granny to suck eggs."
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More on topic, I have an old Hohner with a very short airbutton. Very similar to a pokerwork but barely proud of the cover. Suggestions for improving the situation welcomed.
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I seem to be the odd one out here. I usually convert my personal Castagnaris to a Hohner style air button.
Easy to use and less stress on the thumb.
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Apologies for frivolity.
I am not skilled enough to speak with any expertise, but to pull discussion back to issues of accordion construction and mechanisms, I recall owning an East German B/C instrument with a 'pencil' style depressable air button. The end plate on the left hand side had two holes, about 1/2" apart, giving flexible options for air value position.
It has to be said that I have no personal preference for air valve styling. In truth I cannot recall struggling with changes between one row rear spoon, one row rear mushroom button, palm operated bar valve, or light switch style thumb operated 'pencil' button.
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More on topic, I have an old Hohner with a very short airbutton. Very similar to a pokerwork but barely proud of the cover. Suggestions for improving the situation welcomed.
Remove the bass end plate, gently ease the button up the shaft a little, Robert's your father's brother.
Or if necessary fashion a new button out of a bit of dowel and fit in replace the old one
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Yes Stiamh I know lots of people that get on with both styles. Also I'm an odd one not being brought up the traditional way via a Hohner. I started on a Casta so it is what I'm used to.
I remember a friend at a session had an old Hohner. I think it was a 3 voice tuned MMM, and it had a small Italian type lever. The lever looked old, whether original or an old modification couldn't be seen.
But it wasnt a traditional Hohner button.
Q
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Or if necessary fashion a new button out of a bit of dowel and fit in replace the old one
Stradella bass buttons are ideal as they have the hole pre-drilled (also they are sexy black).
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Just to mention Mustradem's DVD https://youtu.be/s4OMJGa1cfo
It is all about air control, the button, posture and avoidance of strain
(Link above is to the promotion video, not the actual product)
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I played this box a little more and it's really a huge improvement. The raised bit is just enough to act like a typical Hohner jobbie, and although the spring is stiffer than any other club box I've tried, it is no great effort as the action is down now rather than in.
If anyone wants to do the same thing, it fairly easy.
The original push in button is soft bendy plastic and it it pushed over a wooden block. This is easy to get off. Then the block is trimmed flush with the face of the bass cover.
The little block itself is a bit of (in this case) beech and I tried a couple of shapes starting with almost a hook before I came up with this shape inspired by Chris's picture of a Van Der Aa box.
Fitting it was a little tedious as I had to keep checking to make sure it didn't foul the slot. I used fast setting PVA, none of this foaming stuff, and gave it a few coats of Danish oil.
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Thanks Lester and Rees. I'll make those plan A anb plan B.
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It is all about air control, the button, posture and avoidance of strain
We are still talking about melodeons I trust...
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More on topic, I have an old Hohner with a very short airbutton. Very similar to a pokerwork but barely proud of the cover. Suggestions for improving the situation welcomed.
Remove the bass end plate, gently ease the button up the shaft a little, Robert's your father's brother...
Robert is, indeed my Father's brother.
It was very tight and tricky to ease up a bit at a time. Easier to pull it right off and then push it back on until it sat the way I wanted it. It was just pushed on, though, no adhesive involved.
Thanks for the confidence to actually do it.
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According to my granny; "Squeaky shoes aren't paid for!"
That is also true in Sweden.
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From my experience of having relatives without shoes or boots (not within the span of my memory, mind) I suspect that the only people in many poor communities to have new boots, which might well have squeaked, were bought on the never-never, so actually weren't paid for!
Most old wive's tales and granny sayings seem to have a kernel of truth, somewhere.
(Not unlike the scary tales of itinerant squeezebox players, eh? Gypsies and their like.)
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...I've tried the Hohner button and find it just cramps my thumb joint and have never got on with it...
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I suspect you were trying to push the button with your thumb. I don't know what others do, but I operate Hohner type air buttons with the fleshy part of my palm beneath my thumb. I don't think I could reach it and operate the bass buttons any other way. That works a treat, though.
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I have small hands and with my natural position to reach the bases, the button seemed to sit around the joint in my thumb.
I could use it, but as said, I'm used to an Italian wedge. Using a Hohner button I would often find I was bending my thumb joint to operate it and after a while felt it cramping.
It could have been simply that this was the first time of using a Hohner button on my friend's borrowed Hohner. When I had the opportunity to buy one and was having the Hohner fettled before buying, I opted to change it to the wedge.
For me it was the easiest way forward, possibly the laziest way forward!
Q
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Using a Hohner button I would often find I was bending my thumb joint to operate it and after a while felt it cramping.
Q
That's the difference. I just tried consciously operating the button while playing and found that it happens right at the base of the thumb in the joint that is considered part of the hand (the Basal Carpometacarpol joint. I looked it up ;D). This is the most mobile joint in the hand and seems to be the most powerful. Probably the one you use with the wedge.
Anyway, I'd better lay off this before Theo gets upset.
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Well I'm pretty sure my hand size/position made that impossible, but it's too late now for me to test the theory!
I think Theo might understand, but yes, let's move on.
Cheers
Q
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Nothing to upset me here.
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I found much of this discussion amusing as it relates to my present circumstances. I recently suffered a minor stroke, indeed I might well have missed it had it not left my left hand somewhat numb and clumsy. Over the weeks, I have been making all manner of strange noises in the morris band as I create new neural pathways to regain the lost dexterity. I've also used it as an excuse to swap boxes to see what currently works for me.
I find it easiest to operate the wedge type, but then can't get off it again, whereas the Hohner style button is a devil to get to, but I can release it easily, albeit with a deafening "thunk". For the record, most of my own Hohners are full-sized Club models, so have wedge air buttons. I believe some Club models have a second hole and mech linked in, allowing very fast bellows movements!
The primary grip has greatly improved, allowing almost full use of the index and middle finger, so I'm favouring tunes in D. Must get more practice in G and get that ring finger working again.
Rob.
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so sorry to hear that Rob. Stroke can be a terrible thing
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Thanks for the kind words, all. Seeing as I felt terrible for a week or more before the incident and have felt quite good since, I consider it no more than a warning. It certainly decided me to quit smoking and the health benefits have been immediate and remarkable. All told probably beneficial in the long run.
Rob.