Melodeon.net Forums
Discussions => Teaching and Learning => Topic started by: Barry Spaul on July 13, 2019, 09:08:32 PM
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Like most people in the UK I do most of my practice in a property adjoining another property. Out of consideration for my nice neighbours I usually practice at much reduced volume. This obviously means less bellows movement. To practice at full volume I go to a local largely disused church (with the church wardens permission). Does anyone else have an unlikely practice venue?
I noticed after 50 replies! That several people have got hung up on the “full volume” element of my question, perhaps I was a bit slack in my phraseology. I was not trying to imply that every note of every tune is screamed out, with dust flying out of every orifice of my poor box.Merely that increased volume implies different timing of bellows movement and possibly Button choice. I often play in church and like the congregation we enjoy getting really stuck into a rip roaring carol at Christmas like “Hark the Herald” but “in the bleak mid winter” gets a gentler treatment. So some knowledge of full volume is therefore desirable.
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When I lived with flatmates I went to a nearby pedestrian tunnel a few times. The acoustics were quite nice and I was even offered coins once or twice :D
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Whilst on hols last week spend a couple of days on Rhyl seafront playing tunes whilst the Sainted Mrs Bailey did her photography thing on the beach.
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in one semidetached house we had the only place I could play at full volume was in the bathroom (sat on the bog) as there were 3 walls between it and next door. At
times we had one musician on the bog and 3 sat on the rim of the bath!
I later discovered that playing at full volume was, in most circumstances, not needed and that it interfered with delicate bellows control,, So when playing for morris I made sure the musician (s) were upwind of the dancers so the sound carried to them. When playing for ceilidhs in a large hall amplification takes care of the required volume and in sessions I play at a reasonably low volume and if others decide to hijack and blast out a tune with volume beating musicality that's their problem not mine
george
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Throughtout most of my playing life, I've been fortunate in having understanding and tolerant neighbours or, as at present, living in a detached house. As my wife and I are both musicians, it was one of our priorites when we last moved house 14 years ago.
But in the past, the best place I ever had for practice was the compressor house at Cynheidre Colliery during the 1984-85 miners' strike, when I was doing methane/water safety cover at weekends. It had the acoustics of a cathedral and there was only me and Duke the pit pony in his adjoining stable to hear.
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We're moving to a new residence the first of the month. I paid a quick visit to the nearest neighbors and warned them I'm an accordion player. They said they'd introduce me to the other guy down the road who also played...
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Anywhere in my house!
Despite it being joined to another property, 2ft thick walls of Dartmoor's finest stone is a brilliant insulation against cold, hot weather.... and sound.
Q
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Usually in the spare room/office. It's a detached house but it's the most convenient place to scatter music and instruments around.
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I live in a detached cottage with walls almost 2ft deep, so no problem practicing at volume, if I want to. However...it has to be while my wife is out. Easier if a certain young spaniels is out as well, though. Dash insists on singing along with my melodeon.
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Do we really need to practice at full volume?
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Do we really need to practice at full volume?
Yes, if nothing else it is useful to detect any reeds that are choking at high volume, not something you want to find out at a gig.
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1. Underneath the house in the utility space
2. Garage
3. Most stuffed up crowded closet with door shut (very flat acoustics, like studio!)
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Greg, if outside in the garden, Maud my next door neighbour's terrier provides a perfect D drone howl accompniament ;D
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I live in a detached cottage with walls almost 2ft deep, so no problem practicing at volume, if I want to. However...it has to be while my wife is out. Easier if a certain young spaniels is out as well, though. Dash insists on singing along with my melodeon.
[/quote
Yet another reason not to own a spaniel! (They can't gather sheep to start with)
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I'm lucky despite living in a semi next door is tolerant, at times they even keep time banging their heads on the adjoining wall.
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I too live in a detached house with thick stone walls, but I never play loudly. Only time I pump up the volume is when I am in a session, and that's only about 4 times a year, including Whitby.
SJ
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Like Steve, we (as two musicians) deliberately chose a detached house for both current and previous residence. This one is Yorkshire stone and there's a garden between our house and the neighbour on one side, and no neighbour at all on the other side.
Music room is also a recording studio and has triple glazed windows that include one layer of laminated glass - pretty good for keeping sound both in and out!
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Greg, if outside in the garden, Maud my next door neighbour's terrier provides a perfect D drone howl accompniament ;D
;D
I think I may leave his contributions in next time I record a TOTM.
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I practice anywhere in the house, the upstairs landing seems to have the best acoustics. I share the opinion of one of the above, why would you want to play at full volume? Music is much more interesting if you play with the dynamics, you know vary the volume. I really don't like some players who just pump out a tune as loudly as they can. I have had players do this in sessions when I'm leading the tune, annoying, and if I can't hear what I'm playing I will just as likely close the bellows and let them crack on.
I say play with finesse over volume any day of the week.
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I practice anywhere in the house, the upstairs landing seems to have the best acoustics. I share the opinion of one of the above, why would you want to play at full volume? Music is much more interesting if you play with the dynamics, you know vary the volume. I really don't like some players who just pump out a tune as loudly as they can. I have had players do this in sessions when I'm leading the tune, annoying, and if I can't hear what I'm playing I will just as likely close the bellows and let them crack on.
I say play with finesse over volume any day of the week.
If you're not listening, you're not playing.
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I'm told that it is repetition, not volume that causes annoyance.
I grew up in a household where music was the norm. My father played concertinas, mouth organ and guitar, my mother plays the piano, my sister played guitar and I play melodeon. There was always music in the house. When my uncle, who plays church organ, visited at Christmas, we would all whistle and step dance while washing up in the kitchen.
Growing up, my daughter played tenor horn, piano, drums and guitar. Without any intended pun, this was 'music' to my ear.
My partner does not have this grounding. Practice is torture for her. As a compromise I have taken to using a keyboard with headphones in the evening. We now have a situation where the gentle rattle of the silent keys is sufficient to prevent her from sleeping.
My father is now entering the later stages of Dementia. He has recently had a short stay in a rest home. I know that he he is happy because he has been heard singing in his room and on the way to breakfast.
I say let the music be heard.
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I totally agree, I've met people who play flat out at sessions and I too hate it.
Perhaps once or twice at my session someone will kick off a glorious tune that will build and build, the brass joining in .... and it is great to give it some welly.
Likewise at home, just sometimes I let rip if I'm away with the fairies, really enjoying the tune and at that moment in time know it's all going well.
For obvious reasons it's not often ;D
Q
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I too don't get this 'playing at full volume' business. One reason many musicians don't like melodeons is that they're often played too loud. Playing a tune in a session as though one were in the street playing for a dance side can be quite offensive to other people in the session. Perhaps practicing playing at a much lower volume would be beneficial to other musicians in a session?
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Surely practicing dynamics involves playing at a range of volumes from the quietest at which your reeds will voice to the loudest volume they can produce. At least part of a practice session must be at full volume.
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I too don't get this 'playing at full volume' business. One reason many musicians don't like melodeons is that they're often played too loud. Playing a tune in a session as though one were in the street playing for a dance side can be quite offensive to other people in the session. Perhaps practicing playing at a much lower volume would be beneficial to other musicians in a session?
As you point out, for playing in the street it is often necesary to play at full volume. And I find it is very different from playing at "normal" volumes, so the practice definitely has value.
As for sessions I wouldn't want to be in a session where playing at full volume is necessary, so agree there.
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most melodeons are capable of making loud noises if you push ad pull hard. They are also loud in comparison with some other instruments particularly If a heavy turgid ?? rhythm is thumped out on the bass throughout the proceedings. When played in this way rhythm, dynamics and phrasing usually come well down on the agenda and that includes when if playing outdoors for morris.
To me, the sensible way to get the best out of a box is to play the bulk of a tune at around half a particular boxes maximum volume so that you can add feeling dynamics, phrasing etc etc as there is always scope to go louder or quieter to get the best out of a tune.
Lesters comment about playing loud to test the efficacy of the reeds is of course quite right but as he said it is only for test purposes
george
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I'm told that it is repetition, not volume that causes annoyance.
Timing too. I believe a similar question came up on Melnet before, and somebody said they negotiated with the neighbours to find out what was a good time to play (when neighbours would be out) and that worked well for them.
I just wanted to come back also to say that I also found the "maximum volume" part of the original question strange. I don't deliberately play loud when I'm practising, only when I'm outside playing for a dance team, where loudness hopefully (at melodeon levels) isn't a problem.
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If I play in the front room, I disturb my wife. If I play in the piano room, I disturb my son. If I play in the dining room, I disturb my daughter. If I play in the hall, I disturb them all. I never disturb the neighbours.
This reminds me of Marisa Robles (harpist) who played the Mozart Flute and Harp concerto. She was asked how she tunes for different flute players: "If I'm playing with Jimmy (Galway) I tune a bit sharp. If I'm playing with WIB (William Bennett) I tune a bit flat. If I'm playing with my husband I don't tune at all."
Actually my son makes enough noise on the piano for me to play anywhere in the house up to bedtime. But his bedtime is way past midnight.
When I was a clarinetist, I have practised in loos in trains, in the car (when camping), and in fields when abroad. A few years ago I played the melodeon on a derelict French village green. Several abandoned houses, no residents. Within minutes, two cars had stopped, joints were lit and passed round (not for me) and these French locals thought I must have been the last man standing in the village. I was terrified of being heard and had picked the most remote spot possible only for them to think I was a relic of their history.
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Perhaps you should have brushed your hair, P&T?
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When I was a clarinetist, I have practised in loos in trains, in the car (when camping), and in fields when abroad. A few years ago I played the melodeon on a derelict French village green. Several abandoned houses, no residents. Within minutes, two cars had stopped, joints were lit and passed round (not for me) and these French locals thought I must have been the last man standing in the village. I was terrified of being heard and had picked the most remote spot possible only for them to think I was a relic of their history.
Somehow people cannot sense whether you want to be heard or not.
When I took my Preciosa with me over public transport, I've found myself a few times playing on the end of the platform and waiting for the train to come. Usually no one cared, but I think once someone came deliberately and inquired.
I've also played on the top of Mam Tor in the UK, but there's no chance anyone could hear anything due to the wind.
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and i've played half way up a French Alp - but so what
george
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I read this as a list of possible tune titles. Who wrote "Full Volume", " On Mam Tor" "If I disturb my daughter"? Well maybe not the last one.
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In Québec it seems that almost everyone has a grandfather, an uncle or an aunt who played accordion - usually meaning a one-row. This can work to your advantage.
I often sit out and play (quietly) on our back balcony. Until a couple of years ago the house next door was occupied by two elderly sisters. The younger of the two (the one who wasn't deaf!) used to tell me how much she loved hearing the sound of my box because it reminded her of her youth when her father (or was it her uncle?) would play.
My wife has been working away from home for the past year and every Thursday night I pick her up from the coach stop just off the highway, at a service station. I usually throw a box in the car and try to arrive 30 or 40 minutes early to have some private practice time in the car. Last week a man came over and knocked on the window. Incredulous, and excited, he said:
- Excuse me, but my daughter said there's a man in that car over there playing the accordion!
- Yes....
- Are you any good?
- Well (seeing no reason for false modesty in front of people who would interrupt my private practice) I'm not too shabby.
He insisted on a demonstration, his teenage daughter giggling in the background. He was not going to leave until he had one. I duly launched into a few bars of a local reel. Oh yes, you're good, he said, and they went away highly amused and apparently satisfied.
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Perhaps you should have brushed your hair, P&T?
I don't even own a brush, or comb.
Actually, I like finding places where I can play quietly. I still want more responsive reeds, not so that I can play loudly, but so that I can drop the volume even more.
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I do find it important to find opportunities to play at volumes that would feel uncomfortable even to me if I were at home. Tunes which require that you take measures to account for air consumption specifically - at home, maybe 3 bars all on the pull is fine, but when using more volume and thus more air, it's possible to get yourself in trouble when playing out and about.
However, usually I develop my strategies and practice them quietly at home, and then implement them at the appropriate time later.
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Perhaps you should have brushed your hair, P&T?
I don't even own a brush, or comb.
And I don't own a great deal of hair...
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I do find it important to find opportunities to play at volumes that would feel uncomfortable even to me if I were at home.
Still can't imagine when I would play anywhere but home (not fishing for compliments). Still taking a break from playing, but feeling the urge to pick it up again. With some students I'm accompanying on piano, I find it really important to drive their playing which is no good for balance but is good for developing their playing. But in general I'm looking more and more to be heard less and less.
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And I don't own a great deal of hair...
Oh you still own it - it's just not in the same geographical location as the rest of you...
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In the forest. Merry Swedish players in the forest at Hårderupfestival.
http://www.ystadsallehanda.se/sjobo/det-svanger-i-skogen-nar-hultivalen-gar-av-stapeln/
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My wife has been working away from home for the past year and every Thursday night I pick her up from the coach stop just off the highway, at a service station. I usually throw a box in the car and try to arrive 30 or 40 minutes early to have some private practice time in the car.
I keep a cheap tin whistle in my glove box for situations like this.
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I live in North London 3 bed terrace house on a busy road and ;
I play almost every evening after 18.30 at home. Full volume. My neighbours don't mine I don't think they do as no complain made so far.. then again they all seem to be changing in every few months. I often do evening live Facebook videos to my followers until I get tired (:) no complain ever made... my next door neighbour did ask a few time 'you don't play anymore why ?' :D after a long break I took..
he also wonders what’s up with me if/when he doesn't see the light from my shed 8) ..one good side of living in London I guess'' no one cares what others do '
:||: :||: :||: :||: :||: :||: :||: melodeon rules :|glug
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In the forest. Merry Swedish players in the forest at Hårderupfestival.
A clear case of, how would you say... durspelansikten ?
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I live in North London 3 bed terrace house on a bust road ...
You should complain to the council.
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I live in North London 3 bed terrace house on a bust road ...
You should complain to the council.
(:) busy I should have said.. council ? do they do any other work but collecting tax'es & issuing parking ticket via their CCTV ? >:(
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I play mine whilst on duty
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I play mine whilst on duty
Damn nerve, playing a Jerry box. Don't you know there's a war on?
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I play mine whilst on duty
Damn nerve, playing a Jerry box. Don't you know there's a war on?
Captured and liberated equipment, old boy!
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I play mine whilst on duty
Damn nerve, playing a Jerry box. Don't you know there's a war on?
Captured and liberated equipment, old boy!
I would quite happily liberate it. I would love a 114.
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with the birth of my son I hesitate to practice full volume at home,
though my main instrument has excellent reeds so playing softly is no problem at all
besides that I share a permanent lease of a stocked rehearsal room outside of town with 24/7 access, which is a bit of a luxury
it used to be a pig pen and now it's called the GREEN ROOM (we decorated it with bright green cloth),
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I just wanted to come back also to say that I also found the "maximum volume" part of the original question strange. I don't deliberately play loud when I'm practising, only when I'm outside playing for a dance team, where loudness hopefully (at melodeon levels) isn't a problem.
I agree about not having to deliberately play loud when practicing, but what if the intended performance is going to be at full volume? I've always assumed (perhaps wrongly) that the practice should reflect what you're going to perform-once I've learned a tune, I'll (hopefully) play it differently if I'm outside and belting it out rather than playing tastefully (as far as ability allows) in a small venue. So, when I know what the venue and audience is, and if it's very specific, I'd try and run through the tunes in whatever style and volume seems appropriate.
Mind you, it still sounds rough to me whatever I do. Oh well.
Cheers,
Guy
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I live in North London 3 bed terrace house on a bust road ...
You should complain to the council.
(:) busy I should have said.. council ? do they do any other work but collecting tax'es & issuing parking ticket via their CCTV ? >:(
Employ music teachers?
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I never play at full volume ever, or top speed. Even with boxes subtlety is the name of the game.
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Yep - learning to play quietly is important - but even playing quietly repeating phrases over and over can be annoying. As a retired local government officer (I will resist the temptation to respond to previous comment with a list of what local government actually does ::) >:E)I have the luxury of playing during the day when neighbours are out. Living in a semi, fortunately we also have rooms which don't share walls with neighbours (who fortunately like folk music anyway).
Another point, if you do play outdoors for Morris as I do,I think it is useful to be able to practice at full volume occasionally, particularly when learning, and I often arrive early to dance practice which is held in a shed in an open air museum, closed to the public in the evening. On holiday, I've played on sea walls and beaches, friendly bars in ski resorts - and gone busking.
But for the next three months we have builders at work here at home - and the sound of box and fiddle practice is as nothing !
Julian
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I see that the OP has modified his original post to qualify the “full volume” element. To reiterate, for Morris and other outdoor playing, full volume or something close is very often needed. From discussion with other box players, I’m not alone in finding that the dynamics of the box change when I’m giving it a lot of welly and I make mistakes that I don’t make when playing quietly at home. Subtlety is of no interest when you’re competing with crowds, generators and just distance.
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Yes, there are times when playing for morris needs nothing more than full on grunt to enable the dancers to hear the tune.
Having been sandwiched between two North West sides with drums whilst processing at Warwick Folk Festival, and next to a massed band with drum section at Sidmouth seafront yesterday, there are times when a Pokerwork at full bore gets drowned. To play with that much oomph but precisely as Cotswold dictates needs practicing, so it is a necessary thing to do.
Q
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... Does anyone else have an unlikely practice venue?
When I first started I practiced in my car in a little used layby on the way home from work.
I am lucky enough, now, to be able to play as loud as I need, as long as my wife is out of the house.
I agree that if you need to play out and have the side be able to hear you (e.g. Sidmouth seafront) you need to be prepared and playing full volume is the best way to get used to this. Amplification is an alternative, but it's often inappropriate (e.g. Sidmouth seafront).
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As you said, we both managed our longest conversation yesterday on the seafront at Sidders!
Amplification is a tricky one. A few years ago we organised the Joint Morris Day of Dance in Exeter and one of the rules imposed on us was not to have amplified music from any of the morris bands as it contravenes some bylaws. I think it was at the time the bylaw situation was in flux and it might have been resolved by now.
Apart from the discussions of whether amplification is appropriate, there might be other things to consider such as bylaws regarding amplified music.
Q