Melodeon.net Forums
Discussions => Instrument Design, Construction and Repair => Topic started by: Peadar on August 11, 2019, 08:47:23 AM
-
I have just started trying to improve the tuning on my Hohner 1040/G. This is my first attempt to seriously tune a melodeon and with some reed pairs are out at 20+ cents. (I should maybe work out the standard deviation!)
Detailed discussion in previous threads makes it clear that for very precise tuning reeds have to be tuned in situ.
There are however 3 places in which reeds can be tuned.
1. Tune As individual reeds on tuning table (easiest for scraping but frequency response of reed will change firstly when it is set in the reed block and secondly when the reed block is
2. Tune Set in the reed block ( more difficult but the inside reeds can be accessed through the ports in the soleplate of the reed block - minor frequeny shifts expected expected when block is put back in the instrument)
3. In situ (minimal frequency shift when bellows re-attached - but most difficult and with risks of pulling reed plates off the block and or creasing plastic valves in the process)
As a preliminary to tuning I went go through all the individual reeds tabulating their existing frequencies and found some quite irregular steps (+/- 20cent) both in absolute tuning and in the offset between the M and M+ reed banks.
Step 2 isn't available in most 2 voice 1 rows (Including Hohner 1040 & HA112), because the reed chest in these is a simple ladder arrangement glued to the fondo (The only exception I know of is the Chanson 7 key and it's variants).
So the question of the day is how much scatter in tuning is likely to result if I just take the reeds out and get them individually in good tune outside the box.
Anyone got any figures?
-
My method for 1040s etc is to tune the reeds outside the box on a scrap pokerwork reed block* I aim for +2/3 cents from the desired pitch. Then I wax them in place and fine tune by lowering the pitch whilst sounding them in the box.
*I use a pokerwork reed block as the cavity sizes are near enough to the 1040/114 cavities to remove that difference from the confusion.
For in box tuning I have a piece of plywood from which I suspend the bellows and the bass end so I can pop the treble end on sound the reed, pop it back off etc etc
Picture to replace a thousand words (https://photos.app.goo.gl/e9y33VUXKG894eqd6)
-
If you want to stay with the typical Hohner wet tuning then you can get away with tuning the reed plates outside the box, because the errors that will result will be concealed by the strong tremolo. It would still sound better with the reeds tuned inside the box, but many people would not be able to tell the difference.
On the other hand for tunings with minimum degrees of tremolo as found on many Italian boxes the only way to get it right is to tune with the reeds on the blocks, and the blocked fitted in the instrument. I tune all instruments this way, even those with flat mounted reeds like the 1040.
Once you have built up some skill and have the right tools it’s also quicker than the fitting and the-fitting of reed blocks that you have to do with other methods.
I’d better take some photos and write up my method.
BTW the Hohner 112 (2 stop) does not have flat mounted reeds. It has a single upright reed block on all the examples I’ve seen.
-
[quote author=Theo link=topic=24319.msg289813#msg289813 date=1565510815
BTW the Hohner 112 (2 stop) does not have flat mounted reeds. It has a single upright reed block on all the examples I’ve seen.
[/quote]
Apologies- have opened up my 112 and Theo is absolutely right as usual. Wondering how I convinced myself that it was the same as the 1040 :|bl.
Peadar
-
For in box tuning I have a piece of plywood from which I suspend the bellows and the bass end so I can pop the treble end on sound the reed, pop it back off etc etc
I got lucky when I built my tuning table. Completely by accident I made the table in front of the bellows just larger than a pokerw ork's casework. So far the surface fit between the table top and he rim of the 1040 treble end is good enough that I can sound the reeds just by putting the treble end down on the tuning table. This won't work once I try to tune something with an upstanding reed block but hey! one step at a time.
Tuning outside the box will do to start with.
-
It v easy to knock up tuning bellows (if you happen to have some old accordion bellows and a couple of bits of plywood). In this photo you can see the bellows I made for tuning one-row instruments. The treble (or bass) case sits on the big hole and the bellows are clamped to the bench.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/mZ81onYdLAaJeZkC8
-
It v easy to knock up tuning bellows (if you happen to have some old accordion bellows and a couple of bits of plywood). In this photo you can see the bellows I made for tuning one-row instruments. The treble (or bass) case sits on the big hole and the bellows are clamped to the bench.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/mZ81onYdLAaJeZkC8
My set-up is very similar to Roger's and works very well, especially for tuning with the reed blocks in-situ.
The dimensions of my large opening are such that most melodeons fit over the width just right. The length of the opening is generally slightly longer than most melodeons, so I have a separate piece of thin ply covered with chamois leather, which I can butt up to the end of the melodeon to close up the gap. See photos.
I find this set-up gives me very consistent results. For very accurate tuning, e.g. Castagnari with very light, slow tremolo, I still prefer to tune by off-sets rather than accept what the tuning meter tells me the pitch is when the instrument is sounded on the tuning bellows. The discrepency tends to be no more than about 1 - 2 cents from when sounded in the assembled instrument. I measure the tuning of each reed in the assembled instrument to establish the baseline, then measure the pitch on the tuning bellows and adjust the reed by the required amount. Works nicely.
-
More photos...
-
I must admit to being a bit mystified as to why you two professionals choose to use a separate bellows system for tuning "inside the box". I expect that there'll be some perfectly sound reason for this, which didn't even approach my conscientiousness, but it seems to me to be yet another time taking process, which could be missed out.
As Steve says, "I measure the tuning of each reed in the assembled instrument to establish the baseline, then measure the pitch on the tuning bellows and adjust the reed by the required amount." Isn't that an extra job which could be by-passed?
Although I've yet to have a go at tuning reeds in a fixed-in block, I copied one of my tuning bellows arrangements (from somewhere or other) which uses the instruments own bellows straight away. I really don't have room for extra sets of bellows sitting around and getting in the way when not in use, either!
-
I must admit to being a bit mystified as to why you two professionals choose to use a separate bellows system for tuning "inside the box".
Me too. I use the same system as you do Winston. It's simple, quick, the reeds are in the exact environment where they will be played, there is no need for "offset tuning". The equipment is simple, and cheap and easy to make an additional plywood bellows holder when you come across an unusual size of instrument. I have half a dozen of different sizes that covers all the boxes in common use.
-
I must admit to being a bit mystified as to why you two professionals choose to use a separate bellows system for tuning "inside the box". I expect that there'll be some perfectly sound reason for this, which didn't even approach my conscientiousness, but it seems to me to be yet another time taking process, which could be missed out.
As Steve says, "I measure the tuning of each reed in the assembled instrument to establish the baseline, then measure the pitch on the tuning bellows and adjust the reed by the required amount." Isn't that an extra job which could be by-passed?
I'm sure this has been explained before, by me and others.
The pitch of a reed on a tuning table, tuning bellows, etc. is always going to be different from the pitch in situ in the instrument, fully assembled with all bellows pins or screws in place. Depending on the design, dimensions and rigidity of the tuning bellows and the set-up you are using, that difference can be 5 cents or more astray. So you have to allow for that by comparing the tuning bellows pitch with the in situ instrument pitch. If you don't then the results of any tuning alteration which you carry out will be inaccurate.
Here's an example of my methodology. I will have previously measured the pitch of every reed in the fully assembled instrument. Just taking the example of just one reed, say the A4 'at pitch' reed, but it could be any of them:
1. Pitch difference from Equal Temperament as measured in fully assembled instrument: -4.5 cents (it's flat!)
2. Amount of correction needed: +4.5 cents
3. Pitch difference from ET measured with reed blocks in situ but instrument opened up on tuning bellows: -2.0 cents (the pitch is not quite as flat on the tuning bellows, but we still need to sharpen it by 4.5 cents - see step 2).
4. Sharpen the reed to +2.5 cents (-2.0 + 4.5 = +2.5)
5. Reassemble the instrument. The reed should now (hopefully!) be sounding at zero cents difference from ET.
In my experience the differences between the in situ assembled instrument and the tuning bellows value can vary something like this:
Unmounted reed plate in a holder: perhaps +10 cents or more.
Reed mounted on reed block sounded on top of the tuning bellows table: approx. +5 cents
Reed mounted on reed block in situ in instrument but sounded on a tuning bellows: 0 to +2 cents.
These values are based on my set-up. Other set-ups will probably give different off-set errors, but there will almost certainly be some difference.
Edited to correct arithmetic typo caused by trying to combine putting out wheelie bin for collection at the same time as posting on melnet. Multi-tasking clearly not my strong point.
-
-2.0 + 4.5 = +2.0
??
-
Replying to Theo's point:
I agree that using the instrument's own bellows will replicate the environment in which it will be played very closely but even then, there will be differences once the instrument is fully assembled and rigid. Not much, but measurable (typically in the order of 1 to 2 cents)
The bench top set-up I use is convenient for the very limited work room space I have.
I will always measure the 'as received' pitches for every reed as the first step so I know just how out of tune an instrument is. Any discrepency from the as received pitch, once on the tuning bellows will show up straight away and can be allowed for if needed. It's no hardship to do a quick bit of mental arithmetic to work out any tuning bellows corrections 'on the fly'. I also write everything down so I can track down and recover any errors or quirks - such as a pitch of a reed being influenced/interfered by the resonant frequency of the set-up.
-
-2.0 + 4.5 = +2.0
??
Oh bugger! Well spotted Lester. Of course it should be -2.0 + 4.5 = +2.5 :|bl
-
The pitch of a reed on a tuning table, tuning bellows, etc. is always going to be different from the pitch in situ in the instrument, fully assembled with all bellows pins or screws in place.
And if follows that if you do all the tuning in the fully assembled instrument there is no offset.
I tune in the fully assembled instrument with all screws in place. Bellows pins are out, but I’ve been unable to detect a difference in pitch based on the presence or absence of bellows pins. I do cover the bellows pin holes with tape to avoid air escaping.
-
I must admit to being a bit mystified as to why you two professionals choose to use a separate bellows system for tuning "inside the box". I expect that there'll be some perfectly sound reason for this, which didn't even approach my conscientiousness,
If I understand your puzzlement correctly (and forgive me if I have missed your point)... I have plenty of old bellows and making another tuning bellows takes 10-15 mins, and saves a lot more than that during tuning. I'm not trying to make a piece of furniture, I just knock them up with a jigsaw, drill, glue, gaffer tape and bits of craft foam. When I can I just lift the end on and off the instrument itself, but sometimes (as with a 114) it won't sit on the bench on either the bass or the treble side.
-
The pitch of a reed on a tuning table, tuning bellows, etc. is always going to be different from the pitch in situ in the instrument, fully assembled with all bellows pins or screws in place.
And if follows that if you do all the tuning in the fully assembled instrument there is no offset.
I tune in the fully assembled instrument with all screws in place. Bellows pins are out, but I’ve been unable to detect a difference in pitch based on the presence or absence of bellows pins. I do cover the bellows pin holes with tape to avoid air escaping.
Yes - I cover the bellows pin holes too.
I've had a couple of frustrating experiences with tuning discrepencies which I eventually tracked down to the presence or absence of bellows pins affecting the rigidity and hence the pitch of the reeds in the instrument. I think it depends on the instrument; it doesn't always happen but sometimes it does.
More recently, working with concertinas, the pitch is definitely affected by whether or not all the end bolts are in place.
-
"I'm sure this has been explained before, by me and others."
Yes, but in your explanation here, only the difference which could be made by the bellows pins/screws not being present when tuning (and using the rest of the instrument as the bellows) is cited as being a possible variant. Surely such a difference would be infinitesimal?
I'm not being deliberately obtuse here, or trying to antagonise anyone, but I still cannot see any benefit in using a separate, specially constructed, bellows for this method of tuning, sorry!
"The bench top set-up I use is convenient for the very limited work room space I have."
Steve, as some of your fellows were once quoted as saying....."You were lucky!" You should see my cramped conditions. They're a major consideration in only using the instruments original bellows, as my storage space for another "special" set is already overwhelmed!
"but sometimes (as with a 114) it won't sit on the bench on either the bass or the treble side."
??? It just sits there in the "U" shaped hanging device, no need to balance or anything.
-
"I'm sure this has been explained before, by me and others."
Yes, but in your explanation here, only the difference which could be made by the bellows pins/screws not being present when tuning (and using the rest of the instrument as the bellows) is cited as being a possible variant. Surely such a difference would be infinitesimal?
I'm not being deliberately obtuse here, or trying to antagonise anyone, but I still cannot see any benefit in using a separate, specially constructed, bellows for this method of tuning, sorry!
See my earlier reply (http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,24319.msg289880.html#msg289880) to Theo.
I do use the suspension by bellows set-up sometimes, but for me my work top mounted bellows works for me and is very convenient. It's especially easy to seat the instrument end very firmly on the bellows top.
The other advantage of the work-top mounted bellows is that I can clamp an additional sheet of plywood on top which has a single vent in it. I use this to sound individual reeds mounted on the reed block outside the instrument. This is good for checking the reed response and adjusting the reed tip gap as needed. Also good for checking whether the valves are working properly, especially after fitting replacements. These adjustments would be harder more fiddly to do on the suspension by bellows method.
Ultimately we all have our favourite tools and methods; these are mine.
-
"I can clamp an additional sheet of plywood on top which has a single vent in it. I use this to sound individual reeds mounted on the reed block outside the instrument. This is good for checking the reed response and adjusting the reed tip gap as needed. Also good for checking whether the valves are working properly, especially after fitting replacements. These adjustments would be harder more fiddly to do on the suspension by bellows method."
A single vent is a must for me, too, on occasion. And your method would eliminate the need for a second set of separate bellows, thus saving space again! I also have a separate device for this, as pictured.
"Ultimately we all have our favourite tools and methods"
Very true, personal preference can be the spice of life in many circumstances.
-
I don’t use the suspended bellows for checking valves, dealing with stuck reeds, adjusting reed set, and general troubleshooting of misbehaving reeds, or for rough tuning - for example when repitching from 435 to 440.
-
"or for rough tuning - for example when repitching from 435 to 440."
Do you do that off the block, so to speak? Or after valving and waxing, with a "big hole" bellows, like Steve's?
-
If the reeds are already off the block (they usually are) then I take the pitch up before mounting them on the block. Only if the wax and valves were all done recently would I do it on the block.
-
I'm curious. I'm a novice to Melodeon and Melodeon tuning so bear with me.
On a 2 voice box the reeds are generally M/M+ I presume. The "+" being the second reed which is tuned sharp to give a "wet" sound. This is done from "dry" tuning to very "wet" tuning.
I understand that reeds tuned in various stages,( ie reeds alone, reeds in block, reeds in situ) , will have slightly different pitches. When reeds are out of the box the 2 reeds can be isolated to check their pitch, M being @440 and M+ being higher by whatever cents you chose. So when the box is completely together and both reeds are sounding, how can you check the pitch of a particular note? Won't a tuner read it as sharp because of the M+ reed? I understand the human ear may perceive it as in tune but how do you actually check it with a tuner?
I hope this question makes sense to you tuning experts 8-)...
Ken
-
So when the box is completely together and both reeds are sounding, how can you check the pitch of a particular note? Won't a tuner read it as sharp because of the M+ reed? I understand the human ear may perceive it as in tune but how do you actually check it with a tuner?
Yes, you are correct. An electronic tuner will usually pick up that the perceived pitch of the two reeds is sharp when they are sounding together. (I say usually, because some electronic tuners get confused by different pitches sounding together).
To actually measure the true pitch of each set of reeds you need to block off one set of reeds. This is mostly done by inserting a strip of paper underneath the appropriate reedblock vents and then reassembling the instrument. It will then only play the un-blocked reeds and you can then measure accurately the actual pitches produced by those reeds.
Some instruments have stops which allow you to isolate individual banks of reeds, so in that case there is no need to disassemble and place strips of paper under the reedblocks.
-
So when the box is completely together and both reeds are sounding, how can you check the pitch of a particular note? Won't a tuner read it as sharp because of the M+ reed? I understand the human ear may perceive it as in tune but how do you actually check it with a tuner?
Yes, you are correct. An electronic tuner will usually pick up that the perceived sound of the two reeds is sharp when they are sounding together. (I say usually, because some electronic tuners get confused by different pitches sounding together).
To actually measure the true pitch of each set of reeds you need to block off one set of reeds. This is mostly done by inserting a strip of paper underneath the appropriate reedblock vents and then reassembling the instrument. It will then only play the un-blocked reeds and you can then measure accurately the actual pitches produced by those reeds.
Some instruments have stops which allow you to isolate individual banks of reeds, so in that case there is no need to disassemble and place strips of paper under the reedblocks.
Or use Dirk's Tuner (https://www.dirksprojects.nl/index.php?Lan=english&Page=Tuner/SaveTime.php) which can identify up to three reeds at the same time.
-
Or use Dirk's Tuner (https://www.dirksprojects.nl/index.php?Lan=english&Page=Tuner/SaveTime.php) which can identify up to three reeds at the same time.
Yes - it's undoubtedly clever stuff, relying on Fourier analysis of the frequencies. But my strips of paper are cheaper than forking out €198 :o and ultimately work just as well.
-
Or use Dirk's Tuner (https://www.dirksprojects.nl/index.php?Lan=english&Page=Tuner/SaveTime.php) which can identify up to three reeds at the same time.
Yes - it's undoubtedly clever stuff, relying on Fourier analysis of the frequencies. But my strips of paper are cheaper than forking out €198 :o and ultimately work just as well.
But much slower, and I'm not convinced that blocking off half the reeds doesn't affect how the remaining reeds sound.
-
Or use Dirk's Tuner (https://www.dirksprojects.nl/index.php?Lan=english&Page=Tuner/SaveTime.php) which can identify up to three reeds at the same time.
Yes - it's undoubtedly clever stuff, relying on Fourier analysis of the frequencies. But my strips of paper are cheaper than forking out €198 :o and ultimately work just as well.
But much slower, and I'm not convinced that blocking off half the reeds doesn't affect how the remaining reeds sound.
Yes, it's slower. It must take me all of five minutes to change the strip of paper from one reed bank to another. I've never noticed any difference which inserting the strip makes to the remaining reeds. If there is any pitch difference, it must be minimal, a fraction of a cent or so, and hence well within the normal tolerance for tuning and setting up even a light tremolo.
-
Ok, so I take it that you need to block off one read at a time, tune the other reed and then reassemble to test. A lot of work isn't it?
The Dirk's tuner seems to be a good choice if it will read both reeds at the same time and tell you the value of each. Although a bit costly. But if you do this for a living maybe well worth it.
Another question. Does it matter which reed (of a 2 voice box) is tuned to 440 and which is tuned sharp? In other words, does the position of a reed in the block determine it's tuning?
Ken
-
Ok, so I take it that you need to block off one read at a time, tune the other reed and then reassemble to test. A lot of work isn't it?
The Dirk's tuner seems to be a good choice if it will read both reeds at the same time and tell you the value of each. Although a bit costly. But if you do this for a living maybe well worth it.
Another question. Does it matter which reed (of a 2 voice box) is tuned to 440 and which is tuned sharp? In other words, does the position of a reed in the block determine it's tuning?
Ken
No. But on a standard 2 row 2 voice Hohner with the block in front of you with low reeds to the left and high to the right you will almost always be looking at the pitch reeds. Need to be more careful on boxes with more voices and with stops as this may drive which reed set is on which side of the block.
-
Thanks Lester & Steve. That answers a few of my questions. These melodeons are mysterious little boxes.
I'm really enjoying learning about them. Have a good evening.
Ken
-
Ok, so I take it that you need to block off one read at a time, tune the other reed and then reassemble to test. A lot of work isn't it?
It doesn't have to be one reed at a time, you can block a whole set of reeds with a long strip of paper to solo/tune the other set.
-
Ok, so I take it that you need to block off one read at a time, tune the other reed and then reassemble to test. A lot of work isn't it?
It doesn't have to be one reed at a time, you can block a whole set of reeds with a long strip of paper to solo/tune the other set.
You can also ( at least you can on a 1 row) block off reeds from the front by lifting 3 or 4 keys all at once and slipping a piece of paper under them. the clogs either sde of the reed you are testing hold the paper firmly enough that the air takes the path of least resistance- past the other reed.
-
Ok, so I take it that you need to block off one read at a time, tune the other reed and then reassemble to test. A lot of work isn't it?
It doesn't have to be one reed at a time, you can block a whole set of reeds with a long strip of paper to solo/tune the other set.
Yes - that's what I meant and is general standard practice (unless you are using Dirk's tuner).
-
Um..when tuning a wettiish (let’s say a Hohner) instrument, the thing you hear apart from the perceived pitch is the tremolo..the beats. Factory turned Hohner tend to be a bit hit and miss on the pitch but generally get the tremolo right. My theory is that once the reeds are closeish in pitch the tuner just gets the tremolo as it should be and doesn’t bother tweaking the pitch...because... differences of a few cents (up to 3 or 4) on a wet tuned instrument are very hard to detect, so why bother spending more time on it? This is my theory.
And...I just tuned a new £12k accordion and the factory tuning wasn’t 100% accurate!!
-
Roger - I think you are right about the factory tuning for wettish Hohners. The other aspect is that the tuners probably have a big workload of instruments to get through and they do not have much time to spend working on each one.
-
Exactly. Now, on my tuning table it sounds reeds a bit # of where they are in the box. Around the middle of the range 4 or 5 cents. The upside, when MM+ are put back in the box, is that the perceived pitch is shifted flatter and therefore closer to the target pitch, so, left uncorrected the result is a semi-Viennese tuning, which sounds sweeter than if I get the M reed bang on concert (which you need to do for LMM etc voices). Wet tuned two voice boxes with the M reed bang on concert sound a bit harsh to my ear, but that's just me.
-
I just tuned a new £12k accordion and the factory tuning wasn’t 100% accurate!!
I have an older 20-button concertina from GDR (in octave tuning). At first I thought it to be badly out of tune, because many chords sounded horrible. But on closer inspection I had to admitt, that the octave sound of every note sound perfect, no beating at all. Even the buttons of the different octaves sound perfectly together. Than I looked even closer: The tuning of the instrument is in reality very near perfect – but perfect to an approximation to just intonation (a bit like diatonic harmonicas). But as fine as this may be for playing on the row, it produces some clashes when cross rowing.
What I want to say is: If you look at the tuning, don’t just look at the cents of your (willfully de-tuned) tuning devise and dismiss the fine tuners as »not 100 % accurate«, but search a possible pattern and a reason behind it.
-
And...I just tuned a new £12k accordion and the factory tuning wasn’t 100% accurate!!
I visited a factory in Castelfidardo a while ago. There was one guy working at tuning finished boxes. One of the few things I managed to learn, hampered by our lack of a common language, was that the factory did not allow him enough time to do the tuning as well as he wanted to.
-
approximation to just intonation
So each row was tuned to just intonation based on the tonic note in that diatonic scale? Presumably 5 limit?
Yes that would give issues cross rowing, definitely on a semi tone box, need to think a bit how bad on a fouth appart box.
Now on an instrument that only plays in one key, I can understand just intonation, but why on earth not do twelve equal tones on an instrument designed for different keys is beyond me ...
Edit: Just worked out what happens on a fouth appart DG box when tuned with 5 limit just intonation. There is only one duff note when cross rowing, and that is the E; the E on the D and G row are in an 81/80 resonace, that would sound grim .... If my maths is right that is almost a 22 cents difference ...
-
maybe 1/4 comma meantone would be worth considering then...
-
maybe 1/4 comma meantone would be worth considering then...
Well its technically a syntonic comma ;)
But to my mind once one gets this far - TET is the solution, at least then everything is equally bad, but by such a small margin that most people don't realise.
I can't imagine what you would do with a fretted instrument like a guitar on just intonation.
Edit: Oh cluck! Just discovered Theo having a go at me back in 2005 (https://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?/topic/2913-just-intonation-suggestions/&do=findComment&comment=28551)
-
But to my mind once one gets this far - TET is the solution, at least then everything is equally bad, but by such a small margin that most people don't realise.
Until your ears have been opened to the full horror of major thirds in 12TET
-
But to my mind once one gets this far - TET is the solution, at least then everything is equally bad, but by such a small margin that most people don't realise.
Until your ears have been opened to the full horror of major thirds in 12TET
Well a 5/4 resonance sounds seriously flat to my ear! (such is my exposure to TET!)
I guess where this moves on from an academic discussion, is on instruments like bag pipes, that are keyed, and often just intonation. I have musical friends who refuse to listen to bagpipes becuase they are so far out of tune! And it makes it a bit of a mare for a piper to play with anyone else other than another piper in the same key :)
-
Until your ears have been opened to the full horror of major thirds in 12TET
Yes indeed - fortunately an English concertina has, as you of course know, two enharmonic doublings in every octave, which are allowing to keep the "Wolf" (pun can't pass unnoticed here) at bay.
I really like meantone tuning for playing solo (only downside being the loss of an additional lower note on the left hand side; yes, still talking of an English concertina, I apoligize to the community).
Can anyone point to recordings of meantone-tempered melodeons?
Best wishes - Wolf