Melodeon.net Forums
Discussions => Teaching and Learning => Topic started by: Peadar on September 08, 2019, 09:16:15 PM
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:|bl :|bl :|bl
Yes this is really embarrassing.
But quite genuinely I need a definitive set of dots for the Grand Old Duke of York. The grandson has asked for it . I had grown out of it before I developed any sense of pitch. And Folk Tune finder seems to have about 3 million variations (slight exageration) .
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http://www.hounslowmusic.org.uk/music/page.php?pageid=150 (http://www.hounslowmusic.org.uk/music/page.php?pageid=150)
or any other from
https://www.google.com/search?biw=1440&bih=766&tbm=isch&sxsrf=ACYBGNSqr3AYCY5h9xKN4Ig5cpYLF-rhIA%3A1567973889905&sa=1&ei=AWJ1XfXyNuHCxgORopa4Ag&q=grand+old+duke+of+york+music&oq=grand+old+duke+of+york+music&gs_l=img.3..0i8i30l2j0i24l3.4064.6044..6262...0.0..0.101.359.5j1......0....1..gws-wiz-img.......0.BXIF9tBUd5M&ved=0ahUKEwi19-X1hcLkAhVhoXEKHRGRBScQ4dUDCAY&uact=5#imgrc=YOhHVBzEMOsKkM: (https://www.google.com/search?biw=1440&bih=766&tbm=isch&sxsrf=ACYBGNSqr3AYCY5h9xKN4Ig5cpYLF-rhIA%3A1567973889905&sa=1&ei=AWJ1XfXyNuHCxgORopa4Ag&q=grand+old+duke+of+york+music&oq=grand+old+duke+of+york+music&gs_l=img.3..0i8i30l2j0i24l3.4064.6044..6262...0.0..0.101.359.5j1......0....1..gws-wiz-img.......0.BXIF9tBUd5M&ved=0ahUKEwi19-X1hcLkAhVhoXEKHRGRBScQ4dUDCAY&uact=5#imgrc=YOhHVBzEMOsKkM:)
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It just so happens it is one of my Whitby workshop tunes...
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Funnily enough, a setting of The Grand Old Duke Of York was one of my last Roose toones. aka Trelawny, we dance Ash Pole to another setting of the tune. [to be fair to Gena, it's more "puts me in mind of" than "identical to"]
X:859
T:Quadrilles No.1(#5) Finales. Roose.0859
T:aka The Grand Old Duke Of York
T:aka Trelawny
B:Roose MS, poss. Manchester, mid-late 19th century.
Z:vmp.2019.Greg Bradfield-Smith.
N:
R:
M:2/4
L:1/8
Q:1/4=120
K:Cmaj clef=treble
e/2d/2|cG EG|c3 B/2c/2|dd dd|d>e dG/2G/2|
ee ee|ef/2e/2 de/2d/2|cc B/2c/2d/2e/2|c3!fine!|]
c/2B/2|AA Bc|d>c Bc/2B/2|AA Bc|d3 c/2B/2|
AA Bc|dd/2d/2 dc/2c/2|cB/2B/2 BA/2A/2|Ggz G|
cc/2c/2 cc|c2 gg/2g/2|c'g ec|Ggz G|
cc/2c/2 cc|cz c/2c/2|d/2c/2B/2A/2 B/2A/2G/2^F/2|G2Z!D.S.!|]
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Hmm, that abc code looks quite unpleasant and a little suspect.
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ok, have the code for Ashpole instead. ;D
X:2
T:Ashpole
C:DBM
N:Notated GB-S
Q:1/4
M:4/4
L:1/8
K:G
W:A (Intro) 2A, 2B, 2A, 2B, 2A, 2B, 2A, 2B, 2C (dance off).
P:A (very steady)
B>A [|:"G"GD B,D .G zz G |"D"F>G AB A2 A2 |"G"B2 Bd "D7"cB AG |1"D"FG "D7"AF "G"G2B>A :|]2"D"FG "D7"AF "G"G2EE |]
P:B (a bit faster)
[|:"Em"E>E FG "D"F2 A2 |"Em"E>E FG "D"F2 D2 | "Em"E>E FG "D"F2 A2 |1 "D"FA"D9"EA"D"D2B>A:|]|2 "D"FA"D9"EA"D"D2B>A |]
P:C (dance off, same tempo as B)
[|:GD B,D G2>G2 |F>G AB A2 A2 |B>G Bd cB AG |1FG AF G2B>A :|]2FG Af g4|]
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because?
Because of |c3 B/2c/2| - if you try and resolve that in your head you'll find that that bar doesn't add up right as it seems like it adds up to 3 + 0.5*2 + 0.5*2 = 5? Since / cuts a note length in half, 2 would double it? Fortunately when one loads it into an interpreter, you discover/remember that it doesn't work like that and something like 44 out of 46 instances of '2' seemingly do absolutely nothing, so, I guess it's fine! Sorry for causing alarm.
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because?
Because of |c3 B/2c/2| - if you try and resolve that in your head you'll find that that bar doesn't add up right as it seems like it adds up to 3 + 0.5*2 + 0.5*2 = 5? Since / cuts a note length in half, 2 would double it? Fortunately when one loads it into an interpreter, you discover/remember that it doesn't work like that and something like 44 out of 46 instances of '2' seemingly do absolutely nothing, so, I guess it's fine! Sorry for causing alarm.
S'ok. You're right. The 2s are superflous and implied by / I thought maybe I should change to L:1/16, but it works fine. It's sound ABC and I couldn't be bothered reworking what I had done. I've attached a pdf to show it works. I thought you meant because it wasn't an identical tune (which I am aware of). I keep messing up my edits. Tired. I think I'll go and sleep off my insomnia, now.
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Since / cuts a note length in half, 2 would double it?
Not quite right, the / says shorten the note and the following number states by how much, so you could have /4 or /16 or whatever. But if you leave the number out then /2 is assumed as is the 1 proceeding the /.
If you want really untidy ABC use A3/2B1/2 in place of A>B
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all this seems to me to be overcomplication to say the least. The grand old duke of York only uses buttons 234 on a 3rd button start box so there is only a choice of 6 notes . Most people will have an idea of the tune and those that don't will be able to find it somewhere on youtube ( or lesters tune a day) After that its just a simple matter of pocking and prodding 3 buttons
george >:E
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Totally agree with George. It's how I learn new tunes. Although I've been playing for a few years,I wouldn't understand all
that technical blurb. So I don't know how a beginner would manage it. Keep it simple,I say.
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I agree with the previous two posts. I can't imagine not being able to play such a tune from memory, but I suppose it give an insight into how difficult that can be for some people.
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I first played the grand old duke of York as a kid on a mouthie 65 years ago. NObody told me , or my mates, how to play it - we just sucked and blowed until we got it right! After several years of knocking tunes out on a mouthie playing on the row on a 'melodeon' came naturally. - the similarity between the two instruments is confirmed by the german title of fist armonica ( or something like that) and I strongly recommend a simple mouthie to work out new tunes on ( quietly) as an aid to learning to play a melodeon.
george ;)
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(1) Not quite right, the / says shorten the note and the following number states by how much, so you could have /4 or /16 or whatever. But if you leave the number out then /2 is assumed as is the 1 proceeding the /.
(2) If you want really untidy ABC use A3/2B1/2 in place of A>B
(1) I've recently started editing all /2s to /s - unless they are necessary (which occasionally they are).
(2) Yup! It gets even more unpleasant if you have stuff like A3/2B1/2c1/2d3/2 - which resolves down to a much more simple
A>Bc<d (*)
I'd been wondering about whether it's legitimate to make blanket changes like this. Seems like it's OK? IMO it increases the
readability and comprehensibility of ABC scripts by a very large factor.
Thank to the contributors of the Duke of York dots - my nephews will love it!
(*) The intermediate forms A3/2B/2c/2d3/2 and A3/B/c/d3/ are equally 'orrible.
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Since / cuts a note length in half, 2 would double it?
Not quite right, the / says shorten the note and the following number states by how much, so you could have /4 or /16 or whatever. But if you leave the number out then /2 is assumed as is the 1 proceeding the /.
I think that's what I said, more or less. Probably more less and less more, though. It's what I meant to say, anyway. Took me three goes to realise what Gena's issue was.
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Never having played it before, I had a go today, and it took me about 3 minutes to work it out, but what a boring bloody tune!
SJ
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Never having played it before, I had a go today, and it took me about 3 minutes to work it out, but what a boring bloody tune!
SJ
Worth posting some variations then ;D
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but what a boring bloody tune!
Fulfils its job of being a nursery rhyme tune for the young
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but what a boring bloody tune!
Fulfils its job of being a nursery rhyme tune for the young
Exactly! And furthermore, being a nursery rhyme tune, is likely to be well ingrained in the brains of very many people from a very early age. This makes it an ideal tune for beginners on the melodeon to learn. It also has words, which most people know too. When I teach my beginners workshop at Whitby, we learn the tune by ear at first before I distribute the written music/tablature as attached in my earlier post.
So although it might be a 'bloody boring tune' (debatable), it is also a bloody useful tune.
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but what a boring bloody tune!
Fulfils its job of being a nursery rhyme tune for the young
That's probably why it's being played for morris.
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..., but what a boring bloody tune!
Good candidate for a processional, then.
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but what a boring bloody tune!
Fulfils its job of being a nursery rhyme tune for the young
Exactly! And furthermore, being a nursery rhyme tune, is likely to be well ingrained in the brains of very many people from a very early age. This makes it an ideal tune for beginners on the melodeon to learn. It also has words, which most people know too. When I teach my beginners workshop at Whitby, we learn the tune by ear at first before I distribute the written music/tablature as attached in my earlier post.
So although it might be a 'bloody boring tune' (debatable), it is also a bloody useful tune.
[/quote
Absolutely.
(Steve- Thanks for the dots-first off the mark and as ABC isn't my strong point the easiest for me deal with)
Now all I have to do is work out how to play it in C on a 7 key melodeon with 1st button start.
Then I can think about how to play Steve's setting at pitch on the AD.
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Then I can think about how to play Steve's setting at pitch on the AD.
Just treat it as a one-row tune and play it all on the D-row. Don't worry about the bit where I have indicated to play a couple of bars on the G-row. That is for D/G box players.
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It was rumoured that her Grace the Dutchess tried very hard to outdo the noble Duke …
(Please refer to line 2) ;)
GREAT melodeon tune, and on of the few playable using an empty beer glass on the row :P
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It was rumoured that her Grace the Duchess tried very hard to outdo the noble Duke …
(Please refer to line 2) ;)
GREAT melodeon tune, and on of the few playable using an empty beer glass on the row :P
::) (:)
The Grand Old Duke of York referred to in the nursery rhyme (which started off as a satirical song of the day) was probably Prince Frederick Augustus, 1763 – 1827. He was the second son of King George III and was conferred with the title Duke of York and Albany.
He went on to have a high-ranking career in the British Army, but which was not so illustrious at first, with less than effective field campaigns in Flanders during the Napoleonic wars, hence the ‘Grand Old Duke of York’ rhyme. He was also the subject of notorious scandals involving gambling debts and mistresses. But he eventually went on to reform the army. The tune for the song also appears in ‘A gentleman’s musical companion: favourite airs, rondos, marches, songs, glees and duets’, London 1803.
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...He was also the subject of notorious scandals involving gambling debts and mistresses...
Another tie-in with the Morris, then?
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..., but what a boring bloody tune!
like any tune its bloody boring if its played boringly, played with half decent rhythm
phrasing and dynamics its quite a jolly processional tune and goes well with in and out the windows!
george >:E ;D
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Then I can think about how to play Steve's setting at pitch on the AD.
Just treat it as a one-row tune and play it all on the D-row. Don't worry about the bit where I have indicated to play a couple of bars on the G-row. That is for D/G box players.
I was thinking of playing it on the A row. Transposition for beginners....and then there are Greg's variations.
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Then I can think about how to play Steve's setting at pitch on the AD.
Just treat it as a one-row tune and play it all on the D-row. Don't worry about the bit where I have indicated to play a couple of bars on the G-row. That is for D/G box players.
I was thinking of playing it on the A row. Transposition for beginners....and then there are Greg's variations.
OK just play it on the A-row and it will come out sounding in A. Use the fingering I supplied in the tablature. No need for any transposition.
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Then I can think about how to play Steve's setting at pitch on the AD.
Just treat it as a one-row tune and play it all on the D-row. Don't worry about the bit where I have indicated to play a couple of bars on the G-row. That is for D/G box players.
I was thinking of playing it on the A row. Transposition for beginners....and then there are Greg's variations.
OK just play it on the A-row and it will come out sounding in A. Use the fingering I supplied in the tablature. No need for any transposition.
That's the plan.....maybe a few bumps on the road.....I've got my head round the 2 bass & to some xtent the 4 bass 1 rows but haven't got th 2R8B set up fixed in my mind
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So although it might be a 'bloody boring tune' (debatable), it is also a bloody useful tune.
On John Kirkpatrick's DVD, he introduces this tune early on the first disc, and then returns to it a few times with additional techniques and ornaments, eventually at the end of the second disc using it as a vehicle for playing the melody with the top two fingers and filling in various arpeggios and countermelodies underneath it in between the melody phrases.
A very simple tune can be extremely useful as a framework for experimenting with more advanced techniques.