Melodeon.net Forums

Forum and website admin => Wish lists => Topic started by: Fred on November 19, 2019, 04:49:33 PM

Title: Migration to new forum software
Post by: Fred on November 19, 2019, 04:49:33 PM
Hi everyone,

I know that there has been discussion about this before but I wanted to bring up the topic again.

Are there any plans to migrate our beloved forum to some newer platform?

Good reasons to do so:
- HTTPS encryption (forum is handling login data and personal messages after all)
- no more cookie problems (you know, those lovely errors most of us get on an irregular basis)
- hopefully better search functionality

Webmasters and admins, what do you think?

Best wishes
Title: Re: Migration to new forum software
Post by: Mike Hirst on November 19, 2019, 05:07:10 PM
I understand your concerns, but it has to be said that I have never had any problems with this forum. I find it robust and dependable. Unlike other forums I do not have to jump through hoops to get to work. I am a cautious internet user. Some forums are incontinent - dropping  their sh*t with scant regard for cleanliness. In my experience, this forum does not. If it aint broke don't try to fix it.
Title: Re: Migration to new forum software
Post by: Sebastian on November 19, 2019, 06:23:29 PM
I don’t remember any technical problems for me using this forum.

Nevertheless reading it on the small screen of a smartphone is not exactly pleasing. (I do think SMF has a module or something to help with this a bit, but I’m not sure.)

Maybe I’m wrong, but isn’t HTTPS a different thing and independent from the forum software?
Title: Re: Migration to new forum software
Post by: Graham Spencer on November 19, 2019, 06:53:58 PM
I've never had any issues here either; it works smoothly and seamlessly on all three devices I use to access it. As Mike said, if it ain't broke........

Graham
Title: Re: Migration to new forum software
Post by: Theo on November 19, 2019, 07:10:53 PM
I don’t remember any technical problems for me using this forum.

Nevertheless reading it on the small screen of a smartphone is not exactly pleasing. (I do think SMF has a module or something to help with this a bit, but I’m not sure.)

Click on the link at the bottom of the screen “WAP2”

Quote
Maybe I’m wrong, but isn’t HTTPS a different thing and independent from the forum software?

Yes that’s correct.
Title: Re: Migration to new forum software
Post by: Roger Hare on November 19, 2019, 08:01:37 PM
...I have never had any problems with this forum...

Me too!

I have subscribed to at least two other forums in wildly differing areas (sailing, audio books) which use this
software - configured slightly differently, so that the appearance is slightly different in each case, but never
experienced a problem...
Title: Re: Migration to new forum software
Post by: Clive Williams on November 19, 2019, 10:14:31 PM
Main concern for me is that SMF2 (which we use) isn't terribly well supported at the moment. Have briefly considered a migration to a more recent platform, but as others have said, it works, and there's other ways to spend time for now...
Title: Re: Migration to new forum software
Post by: Fred on November 20, 2019, 12:53:20 AM
Quote
Maybe I’m wrong, but isn’t HTTPS a different thing and independent from the forum software?

Yes that’s correct.

Didn't intend to mix things up as I know that encryption is a topic of its own. Still, migrating to a new platform would be a good opportunity to set up a renewed SSL certificate and enforce https as the secure and modern standard. (Current certificate is expired since I don't know how long.)

Main concern for me is that SMF2 (which we use) isn't terribly well supported at the moment. Have briefly considered a migration to a more recent platform, but as others have said, it works, and there's other ways to spend time for now...

Understandable that you're not too keen on putting in the required time and effort. I'm wondering what would be the tipping point for you?

Quote
some people saying that there are no cookie related problems with posting

There are posts about this on an irregular basis. There are often errors trying to post and I'd be happy to see them gone. Either with an updated version of SMF2 (presumably not going to happen) or with some other platform.
Title: Re: Migration to new forum software
Post by: Steve_freereeder on November 20, 2019, 01:13:36 AM
I like the way this forum software behaves. It works just fine for me.
As far as I can see it ain't broke, so no need to fix it.
Title: Re: Migration to new forum software
Post by: Nick Collis Bird on November 20, 2019, 06:04:45 AM
I like the way this forum software behaves. It works just fine for me.
As far as I can see it ain't broke, so no need to fix it.


Ditto!!
Title: Re: Migration to new forum software
Post by: Theo on November 20, 2019, 09:26:16 AM

Quote
some people saying that there are no cookie related problems with posting

There are posts about this on an irregular basis. There are often errors trying to post and I'd be happy to see them gone. Either with an updated version of SMF2 (presumably not going to happen) or with some other platform.

We are on the most up to date version of SMF 2.0.15.  There is SMF2.1 in beta testing

Apart from HTTPS our security seems to be pretty good.  We've had no spammers here for several years I think.  Spammers appear to be the biggest security risk for a discussion forum.

Nearly all the errors that have been reported are a result of some of our security settings being too restrictive.  At present these errors seem to be at a very low level, judging by the reports received.
Title: Re: Migration to new forum software
Post by: Bill Young on November 20, 2019, 12:18:15 PM
I don’t have any problems with the forum as it is and don’t think it needs to change. But then I'm biased as I use the same SMF software for my BCC# Button Box Forum https://buttonbox.org.uk.

Regarding a Search facility, it wouldn’t be easy to do better than the Google Search option in the main menu.

SSL security is a separate thing. I have it on the Button Box Forum (free from my website hosting provider).
Title: Re: Migration to new forum software
Post by: invadm on November 20, 2019, 12:24:27 PM
all works fine for me too however  ;) ....... I wish it was easier to upload full size photos-a bunch of them- and our own video sharing option without going thru you tube,sound cloud etc links ..
as main aim is discussion melodeons I'd guess photos and videos comes 2nd or 3rd and I understand that fully.     
Title: Re: Migration to new forum software
Post by: Clive Williams on November 20, 2019, 02:52:33 PM
Main concern for me is that SMF2 (which we use) isn't terribly well supported at the moment. Have briefly considered a migration to a more recent platform, but as others have said, it works, and there's other ways to spend time for now...

Understandable that you're not too keen on putting in the required time and effort. I'm wondering what would be the tipping point for you?

Generally when the risks of staying on the platform outweigh the risks of migration. A large security hole that goes unpatched for example. The risks of losing at least some of our existing data during a migration would be sizeable, even though I'd pick something with an established migration tool to move from SMF2 - there are products out there that do have that. We'd also have to migrate the informational parts of the site, which are currently implemented as an SMF2 plugin using 'SimplePortal'. That would probably go to Wordpress, or something similar I expect.

In general, I don't see functionality on other portal platforms that I miss enough to make a serious feasibility study of a non-emergency migration worthwhile yet.

Title: Re: Migration to new forum software
Post by: Fred on November 20, 2019, 03:15:20 PM
In general, I don't see functionality on other portal platforms that I miss enough to make a serious feasibility study of a non-emergency migration worthwhile yet.

Fair.
Title: Re: Migration to new forum software
Post by: Calum on November 20, 2019, 03:40:40 PM
Just a comment on the ain'tbrokedon'tfix mindset - this is a good principle in general, but it is worth knowing with tech that it's not that simple.  Every internet service depends on a cluster of supporting technologies, and over time those services update, change, retire, upgrade, and anything that relies on them needs to adapt.  Sometimes things get to the point where adaption is no longer possible, and it's worth staying ahead of that rather than being caught short when XYZ essential feature goes away because something else broke. 
Title: Re: Migration to new forum software
Post by: Eshed on November 22, 2019, 09:01:17 AM
While forum software is indeed not an issue.
I would like to voice my concern regarding https.
People will be using passwords for melnet that they use elsewhere no matter what we say or recommend. So their passwords are essentially public knowledge now.
I cannot exaggerate the security hazard here.
Title: Re: Migration to new forum software
Post by: Fred on March 15, 2021, 01:27:25 PM
While forum software is indeed not an issue.
I would like to voice my concern regarding https.
People will be using passwords for melnet that they use elsewhere no matter what we say or recommend. So their passwords are essentially public knowledge now.
I cannot exaggerate the security hazard here.

Any updates regarding this topic?
Title: Re: Migration to new forum software
Post by: Graham Spencer on March 15, 2021, 03:56:08 PM
Other than that I  still have absolutely no problems whatever, I guess not.........
Title: Re: Migration to new forum software
Post by: Roger Hare on March 15, 2021, 04:36:20 PM
My comment of Nov 19 2019 still applies:

I have subscribed to at least two other forums in wildly differing areas (sailing, audio books) which use this
Simple Machines software - configured slightly differently, so that the appearance is slightly different in each
case, but I've never experienced a problem using this software...

This is still true. If it ain't broke, don't fix it is my feeling...
Title: Re: Migration to new forum software
Post by: Thrupenny Bit on March 15, 2021, 06:06:15 PM
I agree to the 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' concept.
But... I would request an eye be kept on it verses other alternatives as in time things will inevitably become obsolete and susceptible to viruses and hacking.
At which point we will all have to get used to a new version regardless of opinion.
I suspect I'm teaching Theo and Clive to suck eggs though!
Title: Re: Migration to new forum software
Post by: Theo on March 15, 2021, 06:07:50 PM
SMF is still being updated for security. 
Title: Re: Migration to new forum software
Post by: Fred on March 15, 2021, 09:28:17 PM
My recent inquiry wasn't about the forum software anymore but in response to what Eshed has posted. After my initial post 1,5 years ago, I now know very well that the majority of users on this forum are averse to a change of the forum software. I just stumbled upon this topic again while browsing the foum, wondered about a possible implementation of https and wanted to know if there are any thoughts or plans on this from our admins/webmasters.
Title: Re: Migration to new forum software
Post by: Theo on March 15, 2021, 10:57:07 PM
That’s Clive’s decision, it’s not something in my competence.
Title: Re: Migration to new forum software
Post by: Chris Ryall on March 16, 2021, 12:36:53 PM
Wish list : It would be nice to have more tolerance in posting attachments, I have taken to emailing quite ordinary iPhone pics to myself before posting here, to reduce size to 60k or so. But some forums automate this …

Mistyped searches are a pain. You correct the typo, then get blocked. “You have alreafy done a search in the last 5 minutes” whatever. Sorry, but searches are a form of exploration. Might this be relaxed?

I use [ code ] for keyboard layouts - obviously! But the CSS is set to kerned font 🥴 Fixed width font please. So much easier

Not got many more boxes to sell, but would like to contribute to funding. Is there an easy way (don’t do paypal)?
Title: Re: Migration to new forum software
Post by: -Y- on March 16, 2021, 01:17:11 PM
Nevertheless reading it on the small screen of a smartphone is not exactly pleasing. (I do think SMF has a module or something to help with this a bit, but I’m not sure.)

Some years back I asked if the admins could add a new forum theme that would be more convenient for mobile browsing, and I'm using the Startaza theme since. In addition to making mobile browsing easier, I think it did a more modern facelift of the interface. You can change it in your options here if you like: http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php?action=profile;area=theme
Title: Re: Migration to new forum software
Post by: Chris Ryall on March 16, 2021, 02:25:21 PM
Phone use is pretty clunky, but I eg set up and contributed to our vote on 4th position start layout from a Galaxy mobile, well up a mountain in the Drôme Vercors.  It’s doable, with reading glasses 😉
Title: Re: Migration to new forum software
Post by: -Y- on March 16, 2021, 02:34:26 PM
Well, the Startaza theme is responsive and already installed (that is accessible within 3 mouseclicks), so easier still.
But, an impressive feat nonetheless with the standard layout!
Title: Re: Migration to new forum software
Post by: Anahata on March 16, 2021, 03:10:55 PM
I just stumbled upon this topic again while browsing the foum, wondered about a possible implementation of https and wanted to know if there are any thoughts or plans on this from our admins/webmasters.

For the avoidance of doubt: the use of https is quite independent of the forum software. SMF should work absolutely fine on an https: connection.
HTTPS capability is a function of the server hosting provider. Some have got their heads round Letsencrypt, others apparently haven't. Letsencrypt allows you to get security certificates (required for https) free of charge, but the downside is the certificate only lasts 3 months, which means you are expected to have an automated script that renews your certificates typically every two months to make sure you are always current.

Phone use is pretty clunky

Yes, that's the only reason I can think of why SMF isn't entirely ideal. It does have a very simplified text-only interface, and that's it's answer for small screens. The normal layout isn't responsive, though I use it sometimes on a 7" tablet in landscape mode where it's not too bad. I think on the whole SMF is not bad enough to merit the upheaval of migrating to something else.

“You have already done a search in the last 5 minutes” whatever. Sorry, but searches are a form of exploration. Might this be relaxed?
I guess the restriction is because many simultaneous searches on a big forum could gobble up a lot of CPU and database access time, making everything slow for other users. As such it's a target for a robot-driven denial of service attack. But I expect it's a parameter than could be cautiously adjusted.
Title: Re: Migration to new forum software
Post by: hickory-wind on March 16, 2021, 05:01:21 PM
My biggest complaint about the platform is the photos. I feel the threads with accompanying photos tend to be richer in content- especially when discussing physical or mechanical aspects of button accordions. Even just doubling or quadrupling the maximum photo size would get rid of a lot of hassle. Resizing everything to be posted here is a waste of everyone's time. Is it at all possible to keep the same platform and increase that one aspect?

Scott
Title: Re: Migration to new forum software
Post by: Anahata on March 16, 2021, 07:15:13 PM
If you allow and encourage posting of big photo files, the photos will quickly become the dominant consumer of file storage space.

It has been suggested, though, that all submitted photos should be resized automatically. This would have to be part of the SMF software,
but can't be hard to do automatically. I've done that for a folk club web site I built, where uploaded publicity pictures of forthcoming guests are silently and automatically scaled to a fixed size. We wouldn't want that, but we could shrink anything that exceeded a maximum size. The image crunching tools (imagemagick, most likely) can be made to apply sensible levels of JPEG compression too.

Maybe a word in the ear of the SMF developers, if the feature isn't already available?
Title: Re: Migration to new forum software
Post by: -Y- on March 16, 2021, 07:40:54 PM
Looks like there are some plugins that could do that, e.g. https://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=4087
Title: Re: Migration to new forum software
Post by: Stiamh on March 17, 2021, 12:35:33 AM
... I'm using the Startaza theme since. In addition to making mobile browsing easier, I think it did a more modern facelift of the interface. You can change it in your options here if you like: http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php?action=profile;area=theme

Thanks Yannick! I am using it now too, and it makes a refreshing - nay, invigorating - change.  :|glug
Title: Re: Migration to new forum software
Post by: Chris Ryall on March 17, 2021, 10:00:36 AM
How about a link that takes you to a facility that does trim (please let’s all trim our images, big size saving!) and then resizes to Melnet requirements automatically.  Ideally then an easy link into posting, a temporary URL whatever.

Yes, devil would be in the detail, but with my phone 🙄 taking jpg’s 10-50x allowed size, we are in a rut. Present arrangements are truly clunky, and just don’t work efficiently. Compare eg Facebook. Image upload is trivial, and auto resizes.

Whatever works. I’m an amateur, but maybe professionals like Clive and Anahata can script something?m
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