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Discussions => Tunes => Topic started by: playandteach on January 11, 2020, 10:35:54 PM

Title: One row tunes
Post by: playandteach on January 11, 2020, 10:35:54 PM
It looks like I might be about to get a one row 1040, thanks to another thread here.
Can I have suggestions for good tunes to learn, that will build on the row skills?

I'm not looking to be a fast or ambitious player, but want to develop bellows use, as my cross row style of playing avoids using the bellows to change notes.
It's in C, but I'm happy to play it as a transposing instrument. I'd be grateful that any suggestions come with a tip about keys: e.g. this tune is in G to be played on a C box (I realise what that sounds like, and I know there won't be F#s available).
What I want to avoid is having a tipped tune, and then transposing it to C, to find that the whole point was to play it in the given key on the C box. It might be that all the beginner tunes for two row boxes are just right - you might just see me struggling with Speed the Plough.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: george garside on January 11, 2020, 11:02:39 PM
welcome to the one row brigade!  if you have to use written music  don't worry about the key its written in. just deem your box to be in that key  and play up and down the row.   Better still  have a  go at playing simple tunes that you can hum or whistle .  when the saints go marching in is a good 3 button starter.   Best start with slow tunes eg aires and waltzes as you are likely to be able to play them at more or less the natural speed which is far more satisfying than playing a fast tune slowly.

some  examples - waters of tyne,  oh dear what can the matter be,  endearing young  charms. winster gallop, cock of the north etc etc.

Practice the C scale over both octaves as some tunes can only be played in the upper octave. and some eg golden slippers the A part works in the lower octave but the B part has to be played in the upper octave.   

Don't worry about  the odd  'accidental' that you havn't got  . play the note before it twice, or cause a diversion by applying both bass spoons together to take peoples minds off it!

PLay the bass (if desired) when they sound ok and don't when they don't!

Keep in mind that the air consumption when using 4 voices is considerable  so keep the bellows well open unless you know you are heading for a series of 'pull' notes in which case bring the bellows in swiftly at the appropriate moment. Also keep in mind that if you are heading for the SHoneT  leaving the bass off for a few notes will greatly reduce air consumption.  Similarly it can help in the early stages to only  the high and one medium voice while you get the hang of things

many tunes on a C box can also be played in G  particulaly those devoid of F# or by faking the F#. 
f

Have fun!

george




Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Peadar on January 11, 2020, 11:39:30 PM
George- It's a 1040 Pete's talking about not a 4 stop.

Dorset 4 hand reel  a good beginners tune- bellows change direction just about every note so you don't run out of air. Bill Johnson's version (TOTM April 2019) is played in both octaves.

Blaydon Races, Byker Hill and Walkr Shore....There's a lot to be said for builing a small rpertioire of local traditional songs on the 1 row.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Graham Wood on January 11, 2020, 11:42:34 PM
Could you play Cajun tunes on a 1 row?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncOQACVViyk
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on January 12, 2020, 12:10:24 AM
Could you play Cajun tunes on a 1 row?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncOQACVViyk

Nice clip.
I thought all cajun was played on one rows.

You already play, PT. Grab a handful of English dance tunes and play them.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Pete Dunk on January 12, 2020, 12:23:00 AM
Tiger Smith's Jig (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeN8ibBtBfg) (aka Oscar Wood's Jig) is a little cracker of a tune for the one row, having the extra two buttons on the left hand end adds a bit to it too.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Steve_freereeder on January 12, 2020, 12:51:23 AM
It looks like I might be about to get a one row 1040, thanks to another thread here.
Can I have suggestions for good tunes to learn, that will build on the row skills?

I'm not looking to be a fast or ambitious player, but want to develop bellows use, as my cross row style of playing avoids using the bellows to change notes.
It's in C, but I'm happy to play it as a transposing instrument. I'd be grateful that any suggestions come with a tip about keys: e.g. this tune is in G to be played on a C box (I realise what that sounds like, and I know there won't be F#s available).
What I want to avoid is having a tipped tune, and then transposing it to C, to find that the whole point was to play it in the given key on the C box. It might be that all the beginner tunes for two row boxes are just right - you might just see me struggling with Speed the Plough.
You could do a lot worse than obtain (buy!) a copy of 'Before the Night Was Out': the East Anglian tune book. Many of the tunes in there are in the key of C and are transcribed directly from field recordings of great East Anglian melodeon players such as Oscar Woods (https://eatmt.wordpress.com/oscar-woods/), Percy Brown (https://eatmt.wordpress.com/percy-brown/), Dolly Curtis (https://eatmt.wordpress.com/dolly-curtis/), Cecil Pearl (https://eatmt.wordpress.com/cecil-pearl/), and other instrumentalists such as Walter Bulwer (https://eatmt.wordpress.com/walter-and-daisy-bulwer/) (fiddle) and Billy Bennington (https://eatmt.wordpress.com/billy-bennington/) (dulcimer).

Obtainable from the East Anglian Traditional Music Trust here (https://eatmt.wordpress.com/shop/).

Also, if you are going to Melodeons in Wensleydale (https://melodeonsinwensleydale.org.uk/) in April, I will be teaching a workshop (https://melodeonsinwensleydale.org.uk/workshops-2020/#D2) on one-row playing - tunes and techniques, which will probably include some East Anglian tunes, among others. Due to the relative uncommonness (is that a word?) these days of one-rows in C, I will be teaching the workshop in the key of D, suitable for one-row four-stop instruments in D, but any melodeon with a D-row will do, although it's best if you have a low-octave L voice on your box. We hope to have at least a couple of one-row four-stop instruments in D available to borrow during the workshop.


Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Steve_freereeder on January 12, 2020, 01:15:05 AM
Lovely video here (https://vimeo.com/11033996) of Katie Howson, Oscar Woods and Reg Reader (dulcimer) playing one of Oscar's tunes 'Waltzing over the Water'. This is a great tune for one-row melodeons.
Psst: It's in 'Before the Night Was Out'


Oh! I've just clicked on Pete Dunk's link...
 :|bl
Tiger Smith's Jig (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeN8ibBtBfg) (aka Oscar Wood's Jig)...
That seems a long time ago now...  :o
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Lester on January 12, 2020, 03:09:26 AM
If you go HERE (https://lesters-tune-a-day.blogspot.com/p/a-left-turn-at-albuquerque-little-cup.html) and scroll til you find 1 Row there are any number of unes
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Psuggmog Volbenz on January 12, 2020, 06:01:32 AM
Plenty of one row suitable tunes here:
http://www.mustrad.udenap.org/lerepertoire.html
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Psuggmog Volbenz on January 12, 2020, 06:06:40 AM
Here’s one I have been learning this week.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: tirpous on January 12, 2020, 06:49:41 AM
This one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jt4DjASIHbM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jt4DjASIHbM)  uses all buttons if I remember well.  If nothing else, it will help you find if your thumb strap is well adjusted (so that all buttons can be reached comfortably).  But I find it's fun to play too.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: GPS on January 12, 2020, 07:30:55 AM
If nothing else, it will help you find if your thumb strap is well adjusted

If you use one....... ;)
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Anahata on January 12, 2020, 09:11:58 AM
Check the melnet theme of of the month for one row tunes: http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php?topic=21326.0

It refers to an earlier one row TotM too...
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Helena Handcart on January 12, 2020, 10:26:16 AM
Whoo hoo! I have just (about 30 seconds ago when I sent the payment) become the owner of an HA114D.  It's going to take some time to get my head, and my hands, around playing it but I am looking forward to much rumpy-bumby, up-and-down-the-rowsy, not-having-to-care-about-which-chordsy playing.  I shall watch this thread with interest for tune suggestions.

Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: playandteach on January 12, 2020, 10:38:48 AM

Also, if you are going to Melodeons in Wensleydale (https://melodeonsinwensleydale.org.uk/) in April, I will be teaching a workshop (https://melodeonsinwensleydale.org.uk/workshops-2020/#D2) on one-row playing - tunes and techniques, which will probably include some East Anglian tunes, among others.but any melodeon with a D-row will do, although it's best if you have a low-octave L voice on your box. We hope to have at least a couple of one-row four-stop instruments in D available to borrow during the workshop.
Actually a one row session there would have been great, but I've booked some other really exciting workshops (also my D row on my DG box has been altered, of course - so that wouldn't work).

This thread is obviously going to keep me busy. Which is another way of rekindling my playing - so I'm looking forward to it. I'll check those all links as soon as the box arrives.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Helena Handcart on January 12, 2020, 10:48:32 AM
Also, if you are going to Melodeons in Wensleydale (https://melodeonsinwensleydale.org.uk/) in April, I will be teaching a workshop (https://melodeonsinwensleydale.org.uk/workshops-2020/#D2) on one-row playing - tunes and techniques, which will probably include some East Anglian tunes, among others.

Ha, that's how we got hooked on the one row - me at one of Steve's workshops at Witney some years ago and my partner at Steve's workshops at 'Pressing the Buttons'.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Anahata on January 12, 2020, 11:17:33 AM
Check the melnet theme of of the month for one row tunes: http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php?topic=21326.0

It refers to an earlier one row TotM too...

Now I'm awake and on a proper computer, here's the earlier one: http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php?topic=13877.0
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on January 12, 2020, 12:18:23 PM
Are there any  recordings of Oscar Woods (easily) available, at a reasonable cost?
I have read a lot about his playing, but never heard it.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: baz parkes on January 12, 2020, 01:40:44 PM
Are there any  recordings of Oscar Woods (easily) available, at a reasonable cost?
I have read a lot about his playing, but never heard it.

John and Katie Howsons; Veteran Music is a goldmine...Pigeon on a Gate features 18 examples of Oscar's playing and sundry other goodies in similar vein. www.veteran.co.uk/VTDC11CD.htm £13 25 double CD
Probably make an excellent accompaniment t0 Before the Night WAs Out... :|glug
(I should say no connection to the seller,but that would be a blatant lie....)
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Steve_freereeder on January 12, 2020, 02:08:24 PM
Are there any  recordings of Oscar Woods (easily) available, at a reasonable cost?
I have read a lot about his playing, but never heard it.

John and Katie Howsons; Veteran Music is a goldmine...Pigeon on a Gate features 18 examples of Oscar's playing and sundry other goodies in similar vein. www.veteran.co.uk/VTDC11CD.htm £13 25 double CD
Probably make an excellent accompaniment t0 Before the Night WAs Out... :|glug
(I should say no connection to the seller,but that would be a blatant lie....)
The archive recordings on that particular CD formed the source material for many of the tunes in 'Before the Night Was Out'. I spent many happy hours transcribing the tunes for the book.  :Ph
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: kenakordeon on January 12, 2020, 02:08:44 PM
Cajun and Quebecois.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Steve_freereeder on January 12, 2020, 02:10:05 PM
...but I am looking forward to much rumpy-bumby, up-and-down-the-rowsy, not-having-to-care-about-which-chordsy playing.  ...
I know. Isn't it lovely!  (:)
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Lester on January 12, 2020, 02:13:08 PM
Tufty Swift's Handbook (https://www.dropbox.com/s/wsyi8oamhprfds9/Tufty%20Swift.pdf?dl=0)
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Helena Handcart on January 12, 2020, 02:20:39 PM
...but I am looking forward to much rumpy-bumby, up-and-down-the-rowsy, not-having-to-care-about-which-chordsy playing.  ...
I know. Isn't it lovely!  (:)

Steve - I will tell you if Colin ever puts the thing down.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: boxcall on January 12, 2020, 02:56:25 PM
Could you play Cajun tunes on a 1 row?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncOQACVViyk


I thought all cajun was played on one rows.


Not played on 1040 one rows though, it wouldn’t be tuned right or sound right.
You wouldn’t play it on a four stop that is not Cajun tuned either for the same reasons.

I love my 1040! ( my first box and junker ;) ).
Enjoy it!
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on January 12, 2020, 04:34:28 PM
Tufty Swift's Handbook (https://www.dropbox.com/s/wsyi8oamhprfds9/Tufty%20Swift.pdf?dl=0)

Gosh! Thank you Tufty and Lester.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Gary Chapin on January 12, 2020, 06:56:21 PM
Hey, well done!

Can I leap in to ask for advice about the thumb strap -- I HATE the thumb strap. I find it very uncomfortable. So I attached a shoulder strap to my one-rows -- but I would still like to come to peace with the thumb strap.

Thanks
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: playandteach on January 12, 2020, 07:38:03 PM
This one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jt4DjASIHbM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jt4DjASIHbM)  uses all buttons if I remember well.  If nothing else, it will help you find if your thumb strap is well adjusted (so that all buttons can be reached comfortably).  But I find it's fun to play too.
I won't be using a thumb strap as I like thumb freedom, but thanks for the tune.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: GPS on January 12, 2020, 07:47:20 PM
Hey, well done!

Can I leap in to ask for advice about the thumb strap -- I HATE the thumb strap. I find it very uncomfortable. So I attached a shoulder strap to my one-rows -- but I would still like to come to peace with the thumb strap.

Thanks

I've come to peace with all the ones I've ever had; somewhere (with any luck I won't remember where!) I have a boxful of the wretched things.........      :D

Graham
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: playandteach on January 12, 2020, 08:16:53 PM
This one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jt4DjASIHbM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jt4DjASIHbM)  uses all buttons if I remember well.  If nothing else, it will help you find if your thumb strap is well adjusted (so that all buttons can be reached comfortably).  But I find it's fun to play too.
Maybe in a year or two.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on January 12, 2020, 08:35:44 PM
Are there any  recordings of Oscar Woods (easily) available, at a reasonable cost?
I have read a lot about his playing, but never heard it.

John and Katie Howsons; Veteran Music is a goldmine...Pigeon on a Gate features 18 examples of Oscar's playing and sundry other goodies in similar vein. www.veteran.co.uk/VTDC11CD.htm £13 25 double CD...

Thanks Baz

[Pigeon On A Gate downloaded. Just what I was after.]
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Rees on January 12, 2020, 11:04:57 PM
Are there any  recordings of Oscar Woods (easily) available, at a reasonable cost?
I have read a lot about his playing, but never heard it.

John and Katie Howsons; Veteran Music is a goldmine...Pigeon on a Gate features 18 examples of Oscar's playing and sundry other goodies in similar vein. www.veteran.co.uk/VTDC11CD.htm £13 25 double CD...

Highly recommended as is book Before The Night Was Out, also available from Veteran.

Thanks Baz
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Jesse Smith on January 13, 2020, 04:00:41 AM
I found the four-stop one-row quite excitingly liberating in that I didn't have to spare any mental energy towards "which chord should I play here?" or "which row should I play this part on?" All that extra brainpower ;) could be devoted towards playing with dynamics and flair. But with the 1040 you have a 4th chord, don't you, so I suppose you won't be able to benefit quite as much. At least you won't be tempted by substituting relative minors anymore.

As to the thumbstrap, I keep trying it both ways. I don't mind it on the one-row like I would on a two-row, and for some tunes it seems to work well, and even helps give a certain type of sound in the playing. But I haven't settled into using it consistently (or not).
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: playandteach on January 25, 2020, 12:41:18 PM
Thanks to all of you helping out, from new springs to the instrument in the first place, and of course to the tunes. I've decided just for now to pretend it's in D and play D tunes. I'm practising some exercises Stiamh suggested and building my own from that starting point. Still very early days. The box I'm using only has notes from the scale, so I'm wondering how Lester and of course all of the rest of you play tunes in G on a D box. Do most of them have a C natural as an accidental chin button?
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Steve_freereeder on January 25, 2020, 12:57:03 PM
The box I'm using only has notes from the scale, so I'm wondering how Lester and of course all of the rest of you play tunes in G on a D box. Do most of them have a C natural as an accidental chin button?
No - normally there are no accidental notes at the chin end. Here's the basic layout for a one-row four-stop box.
http://www.forum.melodeon.net/files/site/keyboards/1%20Row%204%20Stop%20-%20C.jpg

Do you mean playing in G on a C box? That's the cajun way of playing, with the F natural flattened seventh, which gives cajun music its flavour.
The equivalent on a D box would be playing in A.

Here's the equivalent layout of a D box:
http://www.forum.melodeon.net/files/site/keyboards/1%20Row%204%20Stop%20-%20D.jpg
There is sometimes an option to have the chin end pull note tuned to B instead of A. One of my D instruments is like this, but I have another tuned conventionally (like the layout diagram) so there is duplication of pull A and push A, which I actually prefer. It makes drone playing possible!
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: playandteach on January 25, 2020, 01:07:58 PM
Thanks, Steve
Just spotted two things in Lester's G tunes (on a one row D box), firstly is that he avoids the Cs - replacing them with alternate options, secondly is that some of his tunes (e.g. Tune 381 - Branle du Rat) have abc notation in G, but he's playing them transposed to D. Solves that problem.
I don't think I'm going to get used to using whatever chords come to hand, so just sticking to right hand only for this little foray, which of course opens the can of worms that if I'm not going to use the basses, perhaps I should find a semitone box...aargh what's happening?
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: playandteach on January 25, 2020, 01:17:01 PM
Another fingering question:
The A section of Mockingbird Hill - can I have some suggestions? Here's the problem... I'm taking my two row approach using my little finger to the one row - which I don't want to do, but it seems so appropriate for the arpeggio sections of the tune. If I'm not careful I'll end up making the one row sound too smooth, in which case the only point to learning it is for bellows control - so can I have some fingering options.
Second problem is the triplet upbeat. It sounds like a clown car. Is that because I'm not lifting my finger between the C# and the D?

EDIT In fact I'm finding this problem on every tune I'm reading through. I can play them, but I don't know if I'm building the right habits.
Is there anyone willing to pick some tunes (any style at all) in D and finger them for me? I'm really after people who consider themselves one row players - or at least dyed in the wool on the row players. I don't at all mind if you are from a 2 or 3 finger standpoint - I can probably work out my own 4 finger versions - but that might be too close to the way I already play, and I'm looking to learn.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: mselic on January 25, 2020, 02:49:00 PM
If you find that a particular section of a tune works best for you using four fingers instead of three, then just do that. My earlier suggestion of favouring three fingers over four is certainly not a hard and fast rule. There isn’t really a right or wrong way or a ‘correct’ fingering for any particular tune. Different players will play the same tune on the same box with different fingerings. It takes a bit of experimenting and even mapping out when deciding how to best approach a tune. I mess around until I find something that feels comfortable and ‘sure-fingered’.

I have to admit that I don’t really read music, however for a series of rising notes as shown in your sheet music, I will often shift my entire hand up to finish the sequence (ie I start with fingers one and two and then jump my first finger to the next note and carry on from there, or do the first three and then back to one, or sometimes the first two notes with the first finger, sliding them up and so on...)
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Steve_freereeder on January 26, 2020, 12:02:05 PM
Theo thinks the latest replies to this thread have somehow become corrupted and have had to be removed.
Following his advice, I will try to recreate my posts using a 'clean copy' of my replies via a basic plain text editor. Please bear with me while I do this...

Hopefully I've recreated my replies and the corruption problem (whatever it was) has been solved...
Thanks for your help, Theo.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Steve_freereeder on January 26, 2020, 12:05:10 PM
Another fingering question:
The A section of Mockingbird Hill - can I have some suggestions? Here's the problem... I'm taking my two row approach using my little finger to the one row - which I don't want to do, but it seems so appropriate for the arpeggio sections of the tune. If I'm not careful I'll end up making the one row sound too smooth, in which case the only point to learning it is for bellows control - so can I have some fingering options.

Fingering is sometimes a matter of personal taste. But here's my suggestion for the opening rising arpeggio in bar 1:
D - 1st, F# - 1st, A - 2nd, D' - 3rd, F#' - 4th; then use the same fingers for the descending arpeggio in bar 2. 

You will notice that I have indicated a 1st finger jump between the D and F#; something which is sometimes frowned upon. But here it works (a) because you need a finger/hand jump somewhere in bars 1 and 2, and (b) where I have indicated it helps define the phrase, so it is not smeared out into a smooth arpeggio. When you get round to putting an oom-pah-pah LH accompaniment in, the first 'pah' on beat 2 helps normalise any slight lumpiness. (as if taking a fraction of breath if you were playing it on clarinet ;))

Quote
Second problem is the triplet upbeat. It sounds like a clown car. Is that because I'm not lifting my finger between the C# and the D?
The triplet as written needs a rapid pull-push-pull on the bellows. It helps if your fingering is crisp and yes, just a hint of lifting between the C# and the D - the barest lift, hardly enough to release the finger from the button. But it also helps if your instrument is set up to its optimum, with all the valves working perfectly and the reed tip gap just right. 

A perfectly acceptable 'fudge' for a one-row would be to abandon the triplets and play those upbeats as two pull quavers C# and E. It hardly loses anything melodically and the resulting lack of awkwardness on the one-row more than makes up for the missing D. (:)
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Steve_freereeder on January 26, 2020, 12:30:55 PM
Is there anyone willing to pick some tunes (any style at all) in D and finger them for me? I'm really after people who consider themselves one row players - or at least dyed in the wool on the row players. I don't at all mind if you are from a 2 or 3 finger standpoint - I can probably work out my own 4 finger versions - but that might be too close to the way I already play, and I'm looking to learn.
Try the attached tune with fingerrings added...


Extra information added post-corruption problem:

Before the posts disappeared, I think you previously queried my choice of fingering of 1,1 for the second beats of bars 2 and 4, also bars 21 and 23, which involves a 1st finger jump to the adjacent button. The reason I do this is so that I then have the same fingering pattern for bars 3 and 5, and bars 22 and 24, involving less of a stretch from the 1st beat crotchet G to the 2nd beat quaver E'.
But your fingering (which I think I understood to be 1,2) works too of course and if you prefer that, all well and good.

I think one of the almost subconcious things which drives my fingering choices is that I always like to maintain my four fingers hovering over an octave stretch of four buttons, so that I can instantly play a push RH triad chord plus the upper octave note, when I want to embelish the melody with extra notes in the chord (easier to demonstrate than to explain :Ph).
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: george garside on January 26, 2020, 12:50:49 PM
[q

Extra information added post-corruption problem:

 

I think one of the almost subconcious things which drives my fingering choices is that I always like to maintain my four fingers hovering over an octave stretch of four buttons, so that I can instantly play a push RH triad chord plus the upper octave note, when I want to embelish the melody with extra notes in the chord (easier to demonstrate than to explain :Ph).

seconded!

george
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Stiamh - away for the summer on January 26, 2020, 02:57:32 PM
Not a one-row player but on C#/D I spend rather a lot of my time on the D row. Being able to play full triads + 1 is not a concern of mine, so here is an alternative fingering of the first line from someone whose main preoccupation is being able to play fast and reliably using the stronger fingers. 


D3 F AD | f3 d AF | G3 B dg | b6 | a3 g ec | A4 (3cde | f3 e dB |A4
1  2 12   3  2 21   1  2 12   3    3  3 22   1    223   3  3 21  1


If the triplet is difficult, perhaps the issue is one of bellows control. The trick I learned early on - a iightbulb moment indeed - from Sabin Jacques (top one-row player) is to keep the front bottom edge of the bellows closed and acting as a sort of a hinge. If you get the hang of this you'll have no problems with in-and-out triplets.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: playandteach on January 26, 2020, 03:29:31 PM
Thanks Stiamh, just tried that and it makes the control better, but the clown sound is I think not releasing the button between the notes. It causes an ugly attack.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: tirpous on January 26, 2020, 03:50:55 PM
Another option would be to change the triplet from c#de to c#eg so that it's all pull notes.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: playandteach on January 27, 2020, 10:01:34 PM
Ok, another question: Peter Wyper's hornpipe -the triplet scalic passage in bar 4 -
I find that if I don't switch fingers on the E-F# back comes the car horn, but if I neglect to do it further down the scale it sounds ok.
1 What is a good fingering for this bar? Currently trying a few, and the best compromise seems to be 323, 232, 232, 121 (mainly switching fingers, but not in the middle - bad form?)
2 Is it my box (which is very nice and well set up - playing it on the D row of my Sander at the moment)?
3 Are higher notes more in need of finger switches in general for this reason?
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Stiamh - away for the summer on January 27, 2020, 10:14:28 PM
Ok, another question: Peter Wyper's hornpipe -the triplet scalic passage in bar 4 -
I find that if I don't switch fingers on the E-F# back comes the car horn, but if I neglect to do it further down the scale it sounds ok.
1 What is a good fingering for this bar?
2 Is it my box (which is very nice and well set up - playing it on the D row of my Sander at the moment)?
3 Are higher notes more in need of finger switches in general for this reason?

Pete, when you talk of "clown" sounds and car horn sounds I can only guess that you are yanking the bellows unduly to produce these noises (I think we need a demonstration). I don't see what difference a finger switch would make to the sound unless you are somehow doing something to change the air flow as you change fingers.

That is a very common passage and I see no need for fancy fingering. I would start with my ring finger on efe and probably make no switches until I got to the G, at which point I would shift my middle finger down onto the G button.

Another way of doing it would be to bring your ring finger down to play the first A.

I tend to doubt that it's your box. I think it's probably you :P  And I don't see why higher notes would need more finger switches.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: george garside on January 27, 2020, 10:16:16 PM
the simple approach to  getting used to fingering the upper octave 'on the row' is to practice scales  over both octaves. When that can be done without conscious thought  the 'fingering' of particular tunes should readily fall into place without much /any thought.  To me this is far preferable to thinking in terms of 'best?) fingering for particular parts of particular tunes.

The push/ pull sequence is axactly the same for both octaves  - blow/suck   blow/suck   blow/suck  suck/blow.   IN the lower octave the blow/sucks take placae on same  button whereas in the upper octave they are on adjacent buttons and 5 rather than 4 buttons are needed to produce the upper scale

george
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: tirpous on January 27, 2020, 10:38:55 PM
Quote
the simple approach to  getting used to fingering the upper octave 'on the row' is to practice scales  over both octaves. When that can be done without conscious thought  the 'fingering' of particular tunes should readily fall into place without much /any thought.  To me this is far preferable to thinking in terms of 'best?) fingering for particular parts of particular tunes.

One does not prevent the other.  Granted, scales help to become familiar with which button/bellows direction combination provides a given note, but the best finger to use for that note in the context of a tune is not necessarily the finger you would use in a scale. 
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: playandteach on January 27, 2020, 10:42:56 PM
the simple approach to  getting used to fingering the upper octave 'on the row' is to practice scales  over both octaves. When that can be done without conscious thought  the 'fingering' of particular tunes should readily fall into place without much /any thought.  To me this is far preferable to thinking in terms of 'best?) fingering for particular parts of particular tunes.
george
Certainly practising scales over two octaves now, but finding that a straight up and down scale doesn't necessarily present the same issues as scales that turn around on themselves. Also still not sure whether those reversals without changing the finger need lifted fingers between bellows changes. This is just the way I learn - needing to understand something from a range of options rather than trying stuff out without the understanding.
EDIT I think I overlapped with Tirpous making the same point.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: playandteach on January 27, 2020, 10:51:57 PM
[

Pete, when you talk of "clown" sounds and car horn sounds I can only guess that you are yanking the bellows unduly to produce these noises (I think we need a demonstration). I don't see what difference a finger switch would make to the sound unless you are somehow doing something to change the air flow as you change fingers.

That is a very common passage and I see no need for fancy fingering. I would start with my ring finger on efe and probably make no switches until I got to the G, at which point I would shift my middle finger down onto the G button.

Another way of doing it would be to bring your ring finger down to play the first A.

I tend to doubt that it's your box. I think it's probably you :P  And I don't see why higher notes would need more finger switches.
It's a tiny but noticeable difference in attack to the F#. I'll do a recording when I get a moment, but I don't know if you'll hear it on camera. The ABA bellows change certainly is more acceptable than the EF#E, but it's also fine to accept that this is part of the one row nature for me. As long as the accepted practice is not to lift fingers on these fairly rapid changes (at my level).
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: playandteach on January 27, 2020, 10:53:29 PM

Pete, when you talk of "clown" sounds and car horn sounds I can only guess that you are yanking the bellows unduly to produce these noises (I think we need a demonstration). I don't see what difference a finger switch would make to the sound unless you are somehow doing something to change the air flow as you change fingers.

That is a very common passage and I see no need for fancy fingering.
I tend to doubt that it's your box. I think it's probably you :P  And I don't see why higher notes would need more finger switches.
It's a tiny but noticeable difference in attack to the F#. I'll do a recording when I get a moment, but I don't know if you'll hear it on camera. The ABA bellows change certainly is more acceptable than the EF#E, but it's also fine to accept that this is part of the one row nature for me. As long as the accepted practice is not to lift fingers on these fairly rapid changes (at my level).
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Stiamh - away for the summer on January 27, 2020, 11:12:59 PM
I wonder if your hornpipe rhythm might be creating or adding to the problem. To play hornpipes properly (or at least, the way I play hornpipes like the one you posted  ;) ) the dotting indicated in the notation is wrong. I would want a sort of ternary rhythm where the first note in a pair is approximately twice the length of the second, not three times the length as when dotted. (You occasionally see hornpipes of this kind written in 12/8 with crotchet-quaver pairs.)

This carries over into the rhythm of the cascading triplets. You don't want (or at least, I wouldn't want) to make the three notes even in weight. In the case of your ef#e triplet, for example, the first e gets the main attack, the f# gets barely anything, and the last e a tad more.

Getting the right rhythm (or at least what I consider the right rhythm for this piece) might make everything easier...

Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: playandteach on January 27, 2020, 11:22:47 PM
I wonder if your hornpipe rhythm might be creating or adding to the problem. To play hornpipes properly (or at least, the way I play hornpipes like the one you posted  ;) ) the dotting indicated in the notation is wrong. I would want a sort of ternary rhythm where the first note in a pair is approximately twice the length of the second, not three times the length as when dotted. (You occasionally see hornpipes of this kind written in 12/8 with crotchet-quaver pairs.)

This carries over into the rhythm of the cascading triplets. You don't want (or at least, I wouldn't want) to make the three notes even in weight. In the case of your ef#e triplet, for example, the first e gets the main attack, the f# gets barely anything, and the last e a tad more.

Getting the right rhythm (or at least what I consider the right rhythm for this piece) might make everything easier...
I don't think the dotted notes are the problem. I don't think I'd be a slave to the notation - the weight thing is highly likely though. Just stopped playing as I knackered my air button -again (it's an ongoing annoyance), but I'll have another go tomorrow.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: george garside on January 27, 2020, 11:43:32 PM
in what way are you knackering your air button - is it due to a fault in the air button etc or in the way you are using it.   Just curious as in 60 odd years of playing a veriety of boxes air buttons  I have not been able to knacker any of them

george
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: playandteach on January 27, 2020, 11:53:45 PM
in what way are you knackering your air button - is it due to a fault in the air button etc or in the way you are using it.   Just curious as in 60 odd years of playing a veriety of boxes air buttons  I have not been able to knacker any of them

george
It's not me, I've had a couple of people fix it, and had a go myself - it's a bent wire pressing into a slot in a long wooden key - Older Sander. I've replaced the slot a couple of times with credit card inserts and it works for a while, but then gets gritty again. Now it's catching and leaking. It's not a great design. No problems on other boxes - and this is a lovely box, so it's worth getting sorted properly.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Steve_freereeder on January 28, 2020, 12:03:38 AM
Ok, another question: Peter Wyper's hornpipe -the triplet scalic passage in bar 4 -
I find that if I don't switch fingers on the E-F# back comes the car horn, but if I neglect to do it further down the scale it sounds ok.
.
.
Pete, when you talk of "clown" sounds and car horn sounds I can only guess that you are yanking the bellows unduly to produce these noises (I think we need a demonstration). I don't see what difference a finger switch would make to the sound unless you are somehow doing something to change the air flow as you change fingers.

I was thinking of the possible bellows control issue that Stiamh mentioned before I actually read his reply. I agree with him, perhaps not 'yanking the bellows' excessively, but maybe inadvertantly giving more emphasis on the pull than on the push, which would result in an uneven, lumpy sound.

For passages like those triplets on a one-row box, your bellows control has got to be absolutely tight and steady, and totally synchronised with your fingers. Additionally, whatever strap methods you are using must hold the box as rigidly as possible, so that despite the bellows waggling, any movement of the RH side of the box is kept to an absolute minimum.

Not sure how you are positioned when practising this, but I notice on your previous Youtube videos that you are standing up to play, which is fine for cross-row style, but for bellows-waggly one-row style, try sitting down to play with the lower RH end of the box resting on top of your left thigh and perhaps cross your right leg over your left and jamb the box against the inside of your right thigh. You might need to adjust the length of the shoulder strap(s) to allow this.

To summarise, the two key points are:
1. Rigid box
2. Synchronise bellows waggles and precise fingering (practise slowly and gradually increase speed - but you know that!)
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Jesse Smith on January 28, 2020, 02:17:05 AM
I am reminded of the advice John Kirkpatrick gives on his DVD regarding the fast triplet runs in "Harvest Home" - practice it over and over again, very slowly and staccato, in order to retain clarity when you get it up to speed.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Winston Smith on January 28, 2020, 07:54:44 AM
"1. Rigid box"

What, like this? (Only joking!)
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: george garside on January 28, 2020, 01:22:07 PM
and bring in the bellows to as near closed as possible when approaching the fast triplet run in harvest home  .Also leaving the bass off the fast triplet run will have 2 beneficial effects.  It will increase the volume of the treble (as all the air has to get out that end)   whilst at the same time reducing air consumption by giving the big air hungry bass reeds some time off,

george
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: playandteach on January 28, 2020, 03:28:39 PM
and bring in the bellows to as near closed as possible when approaching the fast triplet run in harvest home  .Also leaving the bass off the fast triplet run will have 2 beneficial effects.  It will increase the volume of the treble (as all the air has to get out that end)   whilst at the same time reducing air consumption by giving the big air hungry bass reeds some time off,

george
Thanks George - I'm not using basses purposefully at the moment, but I get your point. Could you confirm whether you (personally) lift fingers in that passage or if it is too fast to separate at speed?
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Andrel on January 28, 2020, 04:57:45 PM
Johnny Connolly recently passed away, but he left us his wonderful music. If you don't already won it, I would recommend getting An tOilean Aerach, all played on a C one-row. Mostly Hohner, I believe. Absolutely terrific.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: george garside on January 28, 2020, 10:53:47 PM
and bring in the bellows to as near closed as possible when approaching the fast triplet run in harvest home  .Also leaving the bass off the fast triplet run will have 2 beneficial effects.  It will increase the volume of the treble (as all the air has to get out that end)   whilst at the same time reducing air consumption by giving the big air hungry bass reeds some time off,

george
Thanks George - I'm not using basses purposefully at the moment, but I get your point. Could you confirm whether you (personally) lift fingers in that passage or if it is too fast to separate at speed?

As a general rule I always lift fingers clear of the buttons but the amount of lift varies with the degree of 'staccatoness' that I require.   I only keep fingers resting on buttons for deliberately  legato passages.   So yes I do lift fingers ( slightly ) off for that passage

george
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: boxcall on February 13, 2020, 05:04:12 PM
and bring in the bellows to as near closed as possible when approaching the fast triplet run in harvest home  .Also leaving the bass off the fast triplet run will have 2 beneficial effects.  It will increase the volume of the treble (as all the air has to get out that end)   whilst at the same time reducing air consumption by giving the big air hungry bass reeds some time off,

george
Thanks George - I'm not using basses purposefully at the moment, but I get your point. Could you confirm whether you (personally) lift fingers in that passage or if it is too fast to separate at speed?

Here’s how a ham and egg’er does it with four fingers .
First time though probably not that clean, and maybe I’m just making clown sounds (:)

I don’t lift my finger between notes on the same button. Right or wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEtBfv56CPo

Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: rileycat on February 13, 2020, 06:33:55 PM
After a quick scan of this thread, I don't think our beloved hero John K. has been mentioned as a 1 row source.  I mention this, having caught him at a recent concert in full 1 row-flow with a very powerful and controlled set of tunes in typical style.  He just doesn't know how to be half-hearted, does he - totally marvellous what he can get out of a 114!! Check his cd's, there's usually at least one tune-set on the 4 stopper included.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Peadar on February 13, 2020, 07:35:17 PM


Here’s how a ham and egg’er does it with four fingers .
First time though probably not that clean, and maybe I’m just making clown sounds (:)

I don’t lift my finger between notes on the same button. Right or wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEtBfv56CPo
Sounds good to me. :)
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Lester on February 13, 2020, 07:43:59 PM
I don’t lift my finger between notes on the same button. Right or wrong.


Yes, or it depends, or it may not be possible and maintain the musicality.


ps Nicely played
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: playandteach on February 13, 2020, 08:06:19 PM

Here’s how a ham and egg’er does it with four fingers .
First time though probably not that clean, and maybe I’m just making clown sounds (:)

I don’t lift my finger between notes on the same button. Right or wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEtBfv56CPo
Thanks a lot for the demo - no clown sounds. I'll give it another whirl.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Dick Rees on February 13, 2020, 08:28:22 PM
General reply regarding hand position:

I have found it easier to handle two adjacent buttons at the end(s) of a 5 button spread by working from the index finger end rather than the pinky end.  In the case of Harvest Home I'd start my hand position with the index finger over the third of the chord and stretching to the side to get the tonic note.  Middle finger gets the five note, so the first bit would finger

I M I M I M I M  (1 5 3 5 1 5 3 5)

putting the burden of the stretch onto the more dexterous digit. 

Just a thought FWIW.

PS.

For one-row 4 stop I love the YT videos from Gilles Poutoux.

Good luck, have fun.

Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: playandteach on February 13, 2020, 08:54:37 PM
Anyone know this tune? Thinking of learning it as a one row challenge for theme of the month, but could do with tempo guidance and whether it's swung or straight 8ths.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: boxcall on February 13, 2020, 09:38:38 PM

Here’s how a ham and egg’er does it with four fingers .
First time though probably not that clean, and maybe I’m just making clown sounds (:)

I don’t lift my finger between notes on the same button. Right or wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEtBfv56CPo

Thanks a lot for the demo - no clown sounds. I'll give it another whirl.
Hi P&T
No problem, I put this up, for you , I did it a couple of days ago but had you in mind.
Then came the wonderful surprise of a grand daughter, so I’ve been busy tending to mom.
I am in no way musically educated, so it is what it is.
Video speaks a thousand words
I also did a 1040 one if you look for it , just the A part.
It takes more work on the ten forty, because of reed response time. IMO ( compared to Beltuna)

I hope you keep it going and share your progress.

As for the tune, I have no idea but it sound delicious!
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on February 13, 2020, 10:11:44 PM
Anyone know this tune? Thinking of learning it as a one row challenge for theme of the month, but could do with tempo guidance and whether it's swung or straight 8ths.

There's a recording here of the tune played by Tom Hughes. This seems to be the only recording. Plays it at about 100bpm.

http://www.springthyme.co.uk/1044/
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: playandteach on February 13, 2020, 10:36:50 PM
Interesting. It drops a bar in the B section, also not sure but it might have some different notes too - haven't listened hard enough to see if it's intonation or real pitch differences in the scales. Certainly going to be a challenge.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on February 13, 2020, 10:58:49 PM
Interesting. It drops a bar in the B section, also not sure but it might have some different notes too - haven't listened hard enough to see if it's intonation or real pitch differences in the scales. Certainly going to be a challenge.

I think the Hughes recording is probably more definitive than your score. Don't know for certain, of course. Just going on scraps of information. I rather like his playing of it.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: playandteach on February 13, 2020, 11:10:01 PM
Just listened again, and the B section starts in A major, which is nice, but not one-row stuff. Might have to ignore the recording - apart from tempo.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: mselic on February 14, 2020, 01:34:29 AM
Just listened again, and the B section starts in A major, which is nice, but not one-row stuff. Might have to ignore the recording - apart from tempo.

A major is often played on a D one-row, including tunes that have one part in D and the second part in A.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Steve_freereeder on February 14, 2020, 07:08:03 AM
Just listened again, and the B section starts in A major, which is nice, but not one-row stuff. Might have to ignore the recording - apart from tempo.

Are you sure about the A major? Listening to the recording which Greg posted, I don't detect any G#s in the B-music. It is definitely possible to play it on a one-row in D.

I agree with you about the 'missing' bar in the recording. Your written music shows a twelve-bar length for the B-music, but The fourth bar is omitted in the recording, so only 11 bars are played. As you say, 'interesting'...
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: playandteach on February 14, 2020, 10:33:02 AM
Could be wrong, Steve - my tinnitus is lively at the moment, but the downward scales definitely had an odd feel about them - could you check and see if there aren't G# in those? Or is it just some weird tuning issues?
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: playandteach on February 14, 2020, 10:36:55 AM
Just listened again. If those are G#s in the downward scales, then I'm losing the plot.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Steve_freereeder on February 14, 2020, 11:19:42 AM
Could be wrong, Steve - my tinnitus is lively at the moment, but the downward scales definitely had an odd feel about them - could you check and see if there aren't G# in those? Or is it just some weird tuning issues?
Just listened again. If those are G#s in the downward scales, then I'm losing the plot.
Pete,
I've listened again (several times) and I still think there are no G#s in the descending scales in the B-music. I agee that the intonation isn't pure by ET electronic standards but I'm certain the meaning is clear. I have just tried playing the tune with and without G#s. Playing the descending scales in A major with G#s definitely sounds wrong in this instance.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Steve_freereeder on February 14, 2020, 12:15:32 PM
Here's my transcription of 'Banks of Kale Water' based on Tom Hughes' recording. I've been playing this on my one-row in D. It's perfectly possible, although there are a couple of slightly awkward hand position shifts needed. I'll try to post a recording sometime soon. (Cue gasps as I hardly ever post any recordings these days...  :o)
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on February 14, 2020, 12:30:08 PM
 :P :P :P
!!!GASP!!!

Thanks, Steve.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Alan Pittwood on February 14, 2020, 02:33:53 PM
Lovely video here (https://vimeo.com/11033996) of Katie Howson, Oscar Woods and Reg Reader (dulcimer) playing one of Oscar's tunes 'Waltzing over the Water'. This is a great tune for one-row melodeons.
Psst: It's in 'Before the Night Was Out'

The tune is, perhaps, more widely known as the "Italian" waltz, as it was track 7 on English country music from East Anglia Topic Records 12TS229 (1973)
and this is the name that is used in Before the night was out . . tune no.59 on page 76: the notes also confirm Waltzing over the Water and Oscar's waltz as local,  Suffolk, names.

It is Waltzing over the Water on The pigeon on the gate  melodeon players from East Anglia Veteran [2 cassettes] (1997) and Veteran VTDC11CD [2 CD] (2008)

It is The Italian Waltz as track 4 on Rig-a-jg-jig dance music of the South of England The Voice of the People volume 9 Topic Records TSCD659 (1998)
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: JohnAndy on February 14, 2020, 02:42:03 PM
I've listened again (several times) and I still think there are no G#s in the descending scales in the B-music. I agee that the intonation isn't pure by ET electronic standards but I'm certain the meaning is clear. I have just tried playing the tune with and without G#s. Playing the descending scales in A major with G#s definitely sounds wrong in this instance.

That's interesting. When I listened it seemed clear to me that there were G#s in those scales. I was puzzled about why we might be perceiving this differently.

So I grabbed the clip as an MP3 and put it into Transcribe, isolated that note, and switched on "View Spectrum". It shows the note in question as being "Ab - 40 cents". Meaning about half way between a G and a G-sharp, verging a bit towards G-sharp side.

I checked some other notes too, as it's the relative pitch that matters. Results were a bit variable but mostly the notes were a bit under (A=440) pitch, which think strengthens the case for interpreting this note as a G-sharp.

However, my overall conclusion would be that he is playing an "in-between" note, which could be interpreted either way. I prefer the G# interpretation myself, but hey, I'm not trying to play the tune on a one-row!
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Steve_freereeder on February 14, 2020, 03:55:59 PM
That's interesting. When I listened it seemed clear to me that there were G#s in those scales. I was puzzled about why we might be perceiving this differently.

So I grabbed the clip as an MP3 and put it into Transcribe, isolated that note, and switched on "View Spectrum". It shows the note in question as being "Ab - 40 cents". Meaning about half way between a G and a G-sharp, verging a bit towards G-sharp side.

I checked some other notes too, as it's the relative pitch that matters. Results were a bit variable but mostly the notes were a bit under (A=440) pitch, which think strengthens the case for interpreting this note as a G-sharp.

However, my overall conclusion would be that he is playing an "in-between" note, which could be interpreted either way. I prefer the G# interpretation myself, but hey, I'm not trying to play the tune on a one-row!

Oh goodness! Maybe it's a case of me hearing what I want to hear and not what is actually there!  :o

OK - I've just loaded the recording into Garageband and slowed the relevant bars right down. Here's what I now think:

Where does this leave us?
I think the tune works well with G naturals throughout. (I would say that wouldn't I, as I want to play it on a one-row in D which has no G#s ::) ). It's interesting how P&T's original dots (downloaded from The Session website) also have G nats  throughout, as it sort of indicates that's how the transcriber heard it or was given it.
Ultimately for this tune, I don't think it matters which way you play it, so long as you do play it, as it is a great tune worth playing. The tune doesn't mind.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Alan Pittwood on February 14, 2020, 03:56:44 PM
An example of playing in A mixolydian [flat 7th, G natural] to play on the D row starting on the A, 5th button.

This is side TWA [English: two] of Will Powrie's recording of The drunken piper/ Highland whisky/ The high road to Linton recorded in 1932 and released on the 78rpm Beltona 1855

More helpfully, it is track 18 on They ordered their pints of beer and bottles of sherry: the joys and curse of drink  The Voice of the People Volume 13 Topic Records TSCD663 (1998)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUgWfeu-3Ns (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUgWfeu-3Ns)

X:1
T: Drunken piper, The
M: 4/4
L: 1/8
K:Amix
|:e2 |A2 AB d3e | edBd e2a2 | G2 GB d3e | dBGB d3e |
A2 AB d3e | edBd e2a2 | g2eg efed | c2A2A2 :|
|: e2 |a4 e2a2 | edef g2a2 | G2 GB d3e | dBGB d2e2 |
a4 e2a2 | edef g2a2 | g2eg efed | c2A2A2 :|


And before you ask, yes, the other side of Will's Beltona 1855 is called ANE [English: one]
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: tirpous on February 14, 2020, 04:47:15 PM
Quote
That's interesting. When I listened it seemed clear to me that there were G#s in those scales. I was puzzled about why we might be perceiving this differently.

There are many fiddlers (& Friends) in the recording and I think they don't all play the same note, some being G-ish and others G#-ish...
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: baz parkes on February 14, 2020, 04:56:43 PM
Oh goodness! Maybe it's a case of me hearing what I want to hear and not what is actually there!  :o

And so say all of us Steve... :|glug
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: playandteach on February 14, 2020, 05:09:42 PM
Lots of opinions, and not a cross word between us. More in tune than the playing (although it's not fair to say it is out of tune, if different people are playing different notes). Just glad to know some part of my aural ability is working.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Jesse Smith on February 14, 2020, 05:27:48 PM
I don't play the fiddle, but isn't this possibly just an artifact of "sloppy" (no value judgment intended) fingering? Even on a fretted instrument like a guitar it's not that hard to end up playing a bit sharp when fretting aggressively. I imagine on fiddle it's quite easy, especially when playing fast, for your fingers to come down slightly short of the precise pitch, or end up bending the string like on a guitar. So then the question becomes, what makes more sense to be the intended pitch? If the rest of the tune is in D Major, and there's no obvious key change to an A Major tonality in the B part, isn't it more likely that the notes are intended to be G naturals, and any perceived sharpness is just a bit of sloppy intonation?

I'm all about learning by ear, but we should make sure we're not mechanically imitating accidental mistakes. (I mean, unless we like how they sound and want to consider them serendipitous variations!)
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: playandteach on February 14, 2020, 06:11:58 PM
I don't think so. At that part of the fingerboard the G and G# aren't very close, and it would take quite a bit of sloppy playing to achieve that for a decent player.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: playandteach on February 14, 2020, 06:23:59 PM
Someone posted Seven Stars on another thread. Lies well on the row, it seems. I've been following advice about using the bottom front edge of the bellows to anchor bellows reversals. Just how much is that technique used by on the row players? - Most of the time, just in quick passages etc?
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Jesse Smith on February 14, 2020, 06:47:25 PM
I don't think so. At that part of the fingerboard the G and G# aren't very close, and it would take quite a bit of sloppy playing to achieve that for a decent player.

Thanks, like I said I don't play the fiddle (or any of the fretless string family). I would really like to have a dabble with it someday, but I am honestly profoundly intimidated. The beauty of the melodeon is being able to press a button and squeeze and get the right pitch every time. With a fiddle it seems like it would take six months or more of practice just to be able to consistently produce a tolerably in tune sound.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Steve_freereeder on February 14, 2020, 06:52:48 PM
Someone posted Seven Stars on another thread. Lies well on the row, it seems. I've been following advice about using the bottom front edge of the bellows to anchor bellows reversals. Just how much is that technique used by on the row players? - Most of the time, just in quick passages etc?
I just hold the box comfortably, sitting down, and jam one end against the inside of my thigh and waggle the blooming bellows as needed without over-thinking it.

Was it this post you referred to?
http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,25060.msg298169.html#msg298169
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Jesse Smith on February 14, 2020, 07:00:15 PM
Someone posted Seven Stars on another thread. Lies well on the row, it seems. I've been following advice about using the bottom front edge of the bellows to anchor bellows reversals. Just how much is that technique used by on the row players? - Most of the time, just in quick passages etc?

Not sure I'm clear on what you're describing. Do you mean anchoring the bottom front edge of the treble end on your leg? I don't think I hold my one row much differently from my Pokerwork.

Regarding tunes that sit nicely on the one row: I have found that a lot of the tunes used by long sword dancing work really well on one row. For example:

Bobby Shafto
The Keel Row
The Oyster Girl (I really love this one in particular)
The Lass of Dallogill
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: playandteach on February 14, 2020, 07:14:19 PM
Someone posted Seven Stars on another thread. Lies well on the row, it seems. I've been following advice about using the bottom front edge of the bellows to anchor bellows reversals. Just how much is that technique used by on the row players? - Most of the time, just in quick passages etc?
I just hold the box comfortably, sitting down, and jam one end against the inside of my thigh and waggle the blooming bellows as needed without over-thinking it.

Was it this post you referred to?
http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,25060.msg298169.html#msg298169
Not sure you've linked to the post you think you have.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Steve_freereeder on February 14, 2020, 07:40:58 PM
Someone posted Seven Stars on another thread. Lies well on the row, it seems. I've been following advice about using the bottom front edge of the bellows to anchor bellows reversals. Just how much is that technique used by on the row players? - Most of the time, just in quick passages etc?
I just hold the box comfortably, sitting down, and jam one end against the inside of my thigh and waggle the blooming bellows as needed without over-thinking it.

Was it this post you referred to?
http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,25060.msg298169.html#msg298169
Not sure you've linked to the post you think you have.
I think I did, but I now see there's yet another thread about Seven Stars!
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: playandteach on February 14, 2020, 07:45:23 PM
Just taken the bass blocks out on my Sander. Getting a sore tricep from practising with that bit of extra weight, and I have no desire to spoil the sound of the right hand with basses at the moment. I can't imagine a sweeter right hand sound than this box on 2 voices. Does anyone else have the ideal lightweight bass end - anyone else take out the blocks or not use basses?
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: JohnAndy on February 14, 2020, 08:01:03 PM
isn't it more likely that the notes are intended to be G naturals, and any perceived sharpness is just a bit of sloppy intonation?

If it were due to sloppy playing (which was my first thought also), then I think it's more likely that the player was trying to change finger spacings to get the G# and didn't quite get it right - in the first scale down the B is quite flat, the A is actually a bit sharp, and the G# is also quite flat (according to Transcribe). After all, other Gs seem to be pitched OK (e.g. there's another high G towards the end of the B music and it's more or less bang on).

I do also happen to think that the G-sharps make musical sense and add to the character of the tune.

But on reflection I think it's more likely - as suggested by P&T and others - that it's more a case of one player playing a G and the other one playing a G-sharp. (Although I can't really hear a semitone clash sound, and Transcribe isn't showing me two peaks in the spectrum a semitone apart, as I'd expect - so I'm not really sure about this...)

Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: boxcall on February 14, 2020, 08:54:56 PM
isn't it more likely that the notes are intended to be G naturals, and any perceived sharpness is just a bit of sloppy intonation?

I do also happen to think that the G-sharps make musical sense and add to the character of the tune.


Adding them here and there.
P&T pasted the first take off the session site, the one bellow it on that site has a G# in the B part and the rest G nat.

when I listen to it  (not me but the tuning app.) using the app. the only time a g# shows is there in the Bpart.
all other notes showing up pretty clear and similar to, but I don't know this tune?


X: 2
T: Banks Of Kale Water
R: reel
M: 4/4
L: 1/8
K: Dmaj
(3ABc)|d2[Af]e c2ec|BcdB AFDF|G2BG F2AF|EDEF GABc|
d2fe c2ec|BcdB AFDF|B2BG F2AF|EGFE D2(A2||
|:A)cef gf gz||Ace^g ag az|Acef g2gf|1 faec d2B2:|2 faec d2||


Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on February 14, 2020, 09:05:02 PM
I wonder who wrote it...or is it Gan Am (or whatever that's called in Scotland, cue Peader), in which case it's wide  open to individual interpretation, in my very humble opinion.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: JohnAndy on February 14, 2020, 09:47:38 PM
X: 2
T: Banks Of Kale Water
R: reel
M: 4/4
L: 1/8
K: Dmaj
(3ABc)|d2[Af]e c2ec|BcdB AFDF|G2BG F2AF|EDEF GABc|
d2fe c2ec|BcdB AFDF|B2BG F2AF|EGFE D2(A2||
|:A)cef gf gz||Ace^g ag az|Acef g2gf|1 faec d2B2:|2 faec d2||

That version has the same A part as the Tom Hughes version but a completely different B part.

This would be my version:

X:4
T:Banks Of Kale Water
R:Reel
M:4/4
L:1/8
K:Dmaj
Ac |: d2 fd c2 ec | B2 dB AFDF | G2 BG FGAf | gfed cdec |
d2 fd c2 ec | B2 dB AFDF | G2 BG FGAe |1 fedc d2 Ac :|2 fedc d2 dd ||
ba^gf edcA | a^gfe dcBA | ^gfed cABc |
d2 fd c2 ec | B2 dB AFDF | G2 BG FGAf | gfed cdec |
d/2d/2d fd c/2c/2c ec | B/2B/2B dB AFDF| G2 BG FGAe| fedc d2 |]

I added 3 G-sharps and changed one other note (last quaver before the 1st time bar, and same part of tune later on, where they are mostly playing an E rather than an A, though it's true an A is played by one of the players on one time through)
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: JohnAndy on February 14, 2020, 09:53:44 PM
could do with tempo guidance and whether it's swung or straight 8ths.

I noticed something interesting about the Tom Hughes version.

It starts off being swung and at a relatively deliberate pace.

It gets gradually faster and the quavers get more even towards the end.

Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: JohnAndy on February 14, 2020, 10:39:56 PM
Oh dear! Maybe I got it wrong :-(

Or at least, I disagree with the expert.

I found a PDF available of a very interesting book on Tom Hughes' music, and it has transcriptions of his recorded tunes.

You can download it here: http://springthyme.co.uk/tom-hughes-book/05TomHBook13_2.pdf (http://springthyme.co.uk/tom-hughes-book/05TomHBook13_2.pdf)

See pages 86-87. Transcriber Peter Shepheard has all the notes in question as G-naturals.

In my defence, the text does also say "Tom was a little uncertain of the descending phrases in bars 9 to 11."

Anyway, I still like the G-sharps better!
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Jesse Smith on February 14, 2020, 10:59:03 PM
JohnAndy, that looks like a great book. I think I'm going to read it through even though I don't play the fiddle! So much of our melodeon repertoire was written for the fiddle or evolved through it that it seems like a good idea to understand the nuances of the instrument better, if even just academically. And I have a couple of friends who do play it that I want to show this book to, so thanks for posting this!
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on February 14, 2020, 11:01:31 PM
I can't get the link to work, or any links to the springthyme site. I'm in the UK.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: JohnAndy on February 14, 2020, 11:51:24 PM
I can't get the link to work, or any links to the springthyme site. I'm in the UK.

Hmmm. I'm also in the UK, and it's still working for me. I'm using the Firefox browser. Also tried in Chrome, and that works too, but it says the site is "not secure". Maybe that's because the link uses the protocol prefix http:// and not https://.

You could try this link: https://springthyme.co.uk/tom-hughes-book/05TomHBook13_2.pdf (https://springthyme.co.uk/tom-hughes-book/05TomHBook13_2.pdf).

Or try connecting to the link using a different browser or from a different device?

Otherwise I don't know what to suggest.

Hope you'll be able to get it working.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on February 15, 2020, 12:08:10 AM
I can't get the link to work, or any links to the springthyme site. I'm in the UK.

You could try this link: https://springthyme.co.uk/tom-hughes-book/05TomHBook13_2.pdf (https://springthyme.co.uk/tom-hughes-book/05TomHBook13_2.pdf).

nope. I don't get anything. It just sits there with a blank screen, which what happens when I try to google or Yahoo anything related to it. The links never seem to execute. Presumably it's a firewall thing, but it's not something I normally see. Just this site. I can get other Tom Hughes  stuff up in the UK, but nothing accessing a pdf, just a spiral bound copy, at £20. Which I am interested enough to consider, but I would rather  settle for a sanctioned pdf. I have become more interested in the provenance of the tune than a transcription of it.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on February 15, 2020, 09:09:29 AM
I would like to thank all those who came forward with offers of help with the Tom Hughes book. You are a superb group of people.

I finally worked out why I was struggling with it.

I looked in my download folder and discovered about 15 copies of the pdf there.

 :|bl :|bl :|bl

Every time I thought it hadn't worked and tried again it was downloading another copy.
I had made the totally incorrect assumption it was a link to a download site, not the pdf itself.
I am making an omelette for breakfast with all the egg I've scraped of my face.

Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: playandteach on February 21, 2020, 09:04:53 PM
I don't think so. At that part of the fingerboard the G and G# aren't very close, and it would take quite a bit of sloppy playing to achieve that for a decent player.

Thanks, like I said I don't play the fiddle (or any of the fretless string family). I would really like to have a dabble with it someday, but I am honestly profoundly intimidated. The beauty of the melodeon is being able to press a button and squeeze and get the right pitch every time. With a fiddle it seems like it would take six months or more of practice just to be able to consistently produce a tolerably in tune sound.
I tried teaching myself enough violin to help my son pick a violin (he's now got a nice old French fiddle through that process). But I was horrified that you can even make open strings out of tune with the bowing pressure and placement.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: playandteach on February 21, 2020, 09:23:53 PM
Here's Banks of Kale Water (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5RNVvytuVI&feature=youtu.be), which I'll also link to in the 100 days thread, but not triplicate in the ThOTM. Slightly panicky at times, but holding on.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Alan Morley on February 22, 2020, 05:29:40 PM
Great one row playing here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgE9QVx6p9Y
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: richard.fleming on February 23, 2020, 09:54:03 AM
Great one row playing here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgE9QVx6p9Y

Just noticed he plays with the flats of his fingers. You couldn't do that on a two-row box. Never seen it before. Is it purely personal or something the French do?
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Winston Smith on February 23, 2020, 10:51:13 AM
I'm not French, and I do it. Mind you, you're right about not being able to do it on a 2 row. Perhaps that's why some boxes have stepped keyboards, to accommodate duffers like me?
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Mike Hirst on February 23, 2020, 12:57:28 PM
Just noticed he plays with the flats of his fingers. You couldn't do that on a two-row box. Never seen it before. Is it purely personal or something the French do?

I'm sure this is a one row thing. I spent 10 years playing like this. It was only when I progressed to three row that I changed. It has to be said that early experience playing tin whistle and time spent in the company of pipers greatly influenced the finger patterns and decorations that I used.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Peadar on February 23, 2020, 01:04:03 PM
I'm not French, and I do it. Mind you, you're right about not being able to do it on a 2 row. Perhaps that's why some boxes have stepped keyboards, to accommodate duffers like me?
In my limited experience of 2 row instruments, open keyboards are stepped and closed keyboards are flush. The open keyboard instruments typically have a wooden  action and the action is quite high (Long travel of the key), which lets you obtain a volume tremelo on long notes. The key levers tops of the outer row are usually adjusted to lie flush with the inner row finger board surface. Any higher and the inner row key presses interfere with the outer row.

A Thumbstrap (relatively common on one rows) set up for the thumb to lie behind the fingerboard and pointing towards the bellows will tend to promote a flat fingering technique. Utterly foreign to fiddlers but very natural to pipers.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Mike Hirst on February 23, 2020, 01:04:23 PM
Further to my post re flat fingering, it is perhaps worth noting that playing spoon bass requires flat finger technique, as do the widely spaced bass buttons found on most one row four stop growl boxes.

This (flat finger technique) also my be a factor in the development of outside-in semitone boxes such as the French C/B arrangement and Irish American D/C#.

Edited to remove ambiguity. MH - Sun 23 Feb 14:06:01 GMT 2020.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Peadar on February 23, 2020, 01:18:22 PM
Further to my post re flat fingering, it is perhaps worth noting that playing spoon bass requires flat finger technique, as do the widely spaced bass buttons found on most one row four stop growl boxes.

This also my be a factor in the development of outside-in semitone boxes such as the French C/B arrangement and Irish American D/C#.

Interesting comment. I really like spoon bass boxes but find them difficult to control compared  with trap door and inset basses
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Pearse Rossa on February 24, 2020, 12:38:53 AM
I really like spoon bass boxes but find them difficult to control compared  with trap door and inset basses

Céard is brí leis sin a Pheadair?
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Tone Dumb Greg on February 24, 2020, 08:48:14 AM
I really like spoon bass boxes but find them difficult to control compared  with trap door and inset basses

Céard is brí leis sin a Pheadair?

I'm not sure, either. But, I don't know much.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: tirpous on February 24, 2020, 02:47:06 PM
I guess he means the other usual type, as per picture.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Steve_freereeder on February 24, 2020, 03:09:23 PM
Here's my transcription of 'Banks of Kale Water' based on Tom Hughes' recording. I've been playing this on my one-row in D. It's perfectly possible, although there are a couple of slightly awkward hand position shifts needed. I'll try to post a recording sometime soon. (Cue gasps as I hardly ever post any recordings these days...  :o)
:P :P :P
!!!GASP!!!
Thanks, Steve.

Right - I have finally got around to making a recording of 'Banks of Kale Water', as promised. Here it is:
https://soundcloud.com/steve_freereeder/banks-of-kale-water

It's very rough and ready, and recorded just using the small built-in mic on a laptop, so the sound quality is not briliant. The version of the tune I finally arrived at was the one in the Tom Hughes tunebook (https://springthyme.co.uk/tom-hughes-book/05TomHBook13_2.pdf), regularised by transcriber Peter Shepheard (see page 87). My version is attached to this post.

I have to say that I found this tune quite difficult to play, especially to keep the rhythm rock-steady (which I didn't manage terribly well). But there we are...
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: playandteach on February 24, 2020, 03:52:07 PM
Glad to hear you found it tricky, Steve. Still played with a nice bounce, though.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: JohnAndy on February 24, 2020, 06:35:29 PM
The version of the tune I finally arrived at was the one in the Tom Hughes tunebook (https://springthyme.co.uk/tom-hughes-book/05TomHBook13_2.pdf), regularised by transcriber Peter Shepheard (see page 87).

Steve, that's beautiful playing, with a lovely rhythmical drive and articulation.

But...

It's not the version regularized by Peter Shepheard.

Shepheard's version not only has the extra bar at bar 4 of the B music (which you also have), but he also has a repeat structure so that the B music gets repeated i.e. by going back to the descending scales figure (which you don't do).

That means the Shepheard's version is 32 bars long, which you might want if using the tune for dancing, or to make it match up with other reels in a set maybe. I think that's the purpose of his regularization.

The version you play on your Youtube clip is 28 bars long, so it isn't really a "regular" reel!

However, as I said before, I think your playing is great, and this post is not intended as a criticism - I just wonder whether maybe you haven't actually counted the bars and that when you're aware that you're not playing 32 bars you might want to switch to the Shepheard version as printed in the book.

Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Steve_freereeder on February 25, 2020, 01:29:56 AM
The version of the tune I finally arrived at was the one in the Tom Hughes tunebook (https://springthyme.co.uk/tom-hughes-book/05TomHBook13_2.pdf), regularised by transcriber Peter Shepheard (see page 87).

Steve, that's beautiful playing, with a lovely rhythmical drive and articulation.

But...

It's not the version regularized by Peter Shepheard.

Shepheard's version not only has the extra bar at bar 4 of the B music (which you also have), but he also has a repeat structure so that the B music gets repeated i.e. by going back to the descending scales figure (which you don't do).

That means the Shepheard's version is 32 bars long, which you might want if using the tune for dancing, or to make it match up with other reels in a set maybe. I think that's the purpose of his regularization.

The version you play on your Youtube clip is 28 bars long, so it isn't really a "regular" reel!

However, as I said before, I think your playing is great, and this post is not intended as a criticism - I just wonder whether maybe you haven't actually counted the bars and that when you're aware that you're not playing 32 bars you might want to switch to the Shepheard version as printed in the book.
Thanks!

Yes, I can see that my version has an extra 4 bars in the B-music, which when played without repeats gives a 12-bar B-music. It's a hybrid version of Peter Shepheard's transcription and my own transcription of the structure which Tom Hughes played.  :|bl

In hindsight, I ought to stick to one or the other and for the sake of danceability, I will probably use the regularised 32-bar version. I will correct it and try again (when I have a chance!).
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Jesse Smith on February 25, 2020, 10:12:12 PM
Further to my post re flat fingering, it is perhaps worth noting that playing spoon bass requires flat finger technique, as do the widely spaced bass buttons found on most one row four stop growl boxes.

Hmm, I think I play my Pokerwork's bass buttons with the flats of my fingers. If I try to put my hand far enough through the strap to curl the fingers over and play with the tips, the strap doesn't pass over the widest part of my hand and I don't feel like it is secure enough. Maybe if I tightened the strap it would be fine, but then it would be harder to get the hand in and out. I imagine isn't uncommon with this type of box. I'm thinking of some of mcgrooger's videos with his Pokerwork shaped Hohners where he is practically slapping the bass buttons with the flats of his fingers.
Title: Re: One row tunes
Post by: Winston Smith on February 26, 2020, 12:46:49 AM
"where he is practically slapping the bass buttons with the flats of his fingers."

Again, that's why the buttons are stepped.
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