Melodeon.net Forums
Discussions => Instrument Makes and Models => Topic started by: savantuk on March 09, 2011, 05:57:10 PM
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Hi,
I have an opportunity to buy this, and wonder if anybody knows the model??
The case is original to the instrument.
Thanks.
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And some more pics:
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More:
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Hi,
I have an opportunity to buy this, and wonder if anybody knows the model??
It is described as: Hohner Gold Medal St. Louise 1904 model, made in Germany. The case is original to the instrument.
Thanks.
No - but it looks rather splendid.
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I have one in Bb/Eb, 8 bass but otherwise identical. The basses sound like a Fokker DR-1, very loud and very nice tone. Treble reeds sound very smooth and surprisingly bright. That one looks to be in pretty good shape.
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1904 St Louis grandprix gold award steel reeds with brass reeds 😍
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Individual reed plates pinned onto leather gaskets are a sign of good build quality.
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Looks like one that I have in the keys of A and D. Of course A is 435 hertz rather than 440 hertz. The bellows on mine leaks a bit, but otherwise it is a pleasant box to play.
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I have an opportunity to buy this, and wonder if anybody knows the model??
It's described in my oldest Hohner list (1905, or very slightly later) as:
No. 495 - "Italian" style "HOHNER" ACCORDEON. Most Beautiful and perfect Accordeon ever made, the greatest care being given to their Manufacture. Top 11 x 5 1/2". 21 Keys, 12 Basses, 14 Strong folds Ebonized case with Polished Alderwood edge. "Very rich tone".
I've got the single row version of it, with spring-loaded catches and steel reeds, and the range of instruments then available is illustrated/described in the Hohner Accordeon Instructor, for Single, Double and Triple Row Instruments - Supplied free with all Hohner Accordeons that was in the original cardboard box along with it.
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Here are a couple similar age and design but not identical. These have flat, closed keyboards. Left one in CF, right in BE.
Scott
BellingersButtonBoxes.com (http://BellingersButtonBoxes.com)
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I like those close fat keyboards rather than the cajun keyboards. I got one double row in D/D# but it's a Beaver. And also a couple single rows in D from Hohner GrandPrix St. Louis 1904 Brassy Reeds. Thanks all for the info.
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Looks like one that I have in the keys of A and D. Of course A is 435 hertz rather than 440 hertz.
I wouldn't rush to say "of course" when it comes to the pitch of these early models - my 10-key one was in beautiful original tuning when I got it, but half-a-semitone flat of concert pitch.
However, by the 1930s things seem to have got more standardised and Hohners are normally at A-435 or A-440, and often rubber-stamped with the pitch on the reedblocks (only an octave higher) as 870 or 880 respectively.
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Left one in CF, right in BE.
Left one is No. 466, right is No. 464.
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Not that distant a cousin from my BbEb Hohner. Mine has a "double" air button hole. Beautiful rich sound. I really like the open keyboard design & after re-facing the palettes & re-felting the buttons it has a very smooth, quiet action.
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often rubber-stamped with the pitch on the reedblocks (only an octave higher) as 870 or 880 respectively.
870 or 880 mark the number of halfcycles per second. They are equal to 435/440 full cycles per second ("Doppelschwingungen") or 435/440 Hertz.
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Not that distant a cousin from my BbEb Hohner. Mine has a "double" air button hole. Beautiful rich sound.
That's a No. 496, and the only lists I have that on are dated 1926 and 1929 respectively.
(In fact it's shown on the front cover of the 1926 How to Play a Hohner Accordion.)
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870 or 880 mark the number of halfcycles per second. They are equal to 435/440 full cycles per second ("Doppelschwingungen") or 435/440 Hertz.
"Doppelschwingungen"? It sounds like a peculiar concept for measuring pitch... ???
But while I've got your attention, I have a question for you that's relevant to this thread: My circa 1905 Hohner, and numerous other old (mainly 19th century) German instruments (both accordions and concertinas) that I have, seem to have been made in a pitch that's about half-a-semitone flat of A-440, but I've never managed to identify what it's called - do you have any idea? (It has certainly caused some confusion in Britain, where many instruments used to be tuned to "Old Philharmonic" pitch, half-a-semitone sharp!)
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Lot of old instruments were factory tuned A=435, some of very old in A=432 (old standards).
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Lot of old instruments were factory tuned A=435, some of very old in A=432 (old standards).
Yes, but A=435 is only -20, and 432 is -32 cents. I'm talking about more-like -50 cents, which would be around A=427.5...
It meant that a British A was more like a Bb on some imported German instruments, and (I think) may explain why quite a number of B/F# Anglo-German concertinas were built in England, to play with some German C/G ones.
I've also found some German wind instruments tuned as low, and had to get flute barrel joints significantly shortened to get them up to A=440. :o
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Lot of old instruments were factory tuned A=435, some of very old in A=432 (old standards).
Yes, but A=435 is only -20, and 432 is -32 cents. I'm talking about more-like -50 cents, which would be around A=427.5...
It meant that a British A was more like a Bb on some imported German instruments, and (I think) may explain why quite a number of B/F# Anglo-German concertinas were built in England, to play with some German C/G ones.
I've also found some German wind instruments tuned as low, and had to get flute barrel joints significantly shortened to get them up to A=440. :o
Yes, agree that there were some extremely low-pitch instruments in the teens and twenties of the 20th century (I realize this is a later period than most of the B/F# anglos). I have a very original early steel-reeded Hohner (with portrait-decorated trim) that I remember as halfway between GC and G#/C# - much below A 435 (G#/C#). I think this has an unusual number stamp on the keyboard near the key letter stamp, and that may refer to this pitch standard.
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Not that distant a cousin from my BbEb Hohner. Mine has a "double" air button hole. Beautiful rich sound. I really like the open keyboard design & after re-facing the palettes & re-felting the buttons it has a very smooth, quiet action.
I have the same bass layout (or structure) how do you prevent from hitting the Air valve (LLLLLLLLLLLLLLONG) air valve while playing?
Since this is octave valves it throws out most of my air if not all while pushing.
I've tried adding some tension but still the least little touch on that octaved bar i'm getting a whole tank of air out.
thanks..
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"I wouldn't rush to say "of course" when it comes to the pitch of these early models - my 10-key one was in beautiful original tuning when I got it, but half-a-semitone flat of concert pitch."
I checked mine with an electronic tuner set to A-435 and most of the notes were quite close to the middle of the meter scale.
My 1904 has 21 treble buttons and 12 bass buttons. As I mentioned it is in the keys of A and D.
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I checked mine with an electronic tuner set to A-435 and most of the notes were quite close to the middle of the meter scale.
I wouldn't be at all surprised at it being A=435, with a scale that (if in original tuning) is sweetly tempered (as mine was when I got it), but there was no single "standard" of pitch at the time and I was suggesting that there's not really an "of course" when it comes to old tunings.
My 1904 has 21 treble buttons and 12 bass buttons. As I mentioned it is in the keys of A and D.
Mine is in D and was beautifully in tune with itself, but this was back in the '70s and I wanted to be able to play it with other people then and I got Nils Nielsen to retune it to "concert pitch". It's still a great little box, but I regret doing that to it because the old tuning was absolutely gorgeous, and I understand a lot more about it now... :-\
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Not that distant a cousin from my BbEb Hohner. Mine has a "double" air button hole. Beautiful rich sound. I really like the open keyboard design & after re-facing the palettes & re-felting the buttons it has a very smooth, quiet action.
I have the same bass layout (or structure) how do you prevent from hitting the Air valve (LLLLLLLLLLLLLLONG) air valve while playing?
Since this is octave valves it throws out most of my air if not all while pushing.
I've tried adding some tension but still the least little touch on that octaved bar i'm getting a whole tank of air out.
thanks..
You mean the long bar that controls the air buttons? I understand that some people use it "as is" & manage perfectly well. I found it awkward to use, so I screwed a little wooden button into the airbar (see the attached Jpeg) & then press my thumb against it (similar to the way the button works on a Hohner Pokerwork) to activate the air buttons. It means that only the second knuckle of the thumb & is pressing against the button. It took me a little while to get used to it, but now it works pretty well. The double air button does have the advantage of allowing you to spill a lot of air quickly when you want to.
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Strange, isn’t it the way we handle the variety of air buttons. I’ve moves so many boxes on because I disliked the way they work, even got Rees to convert my brand new Albrecht one row from push in to press down. I was very happy with the spoon system on my 114’s and found the long bar on my Koch really handy....and now that I am reduced to only playing my Honorised toy boxes am probably the only person in the world happy with the air button, activated by the little finger...... ???
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....and now that I am reduced to only playing my Honorised toy boxes am probably the only person in the world happy with the air button, activated by the little finger...... ???
It's the same for anybody who actually plays on any of the 19th-century French accordions/flutinas Brian, though complicated by having to grip the socle frame on the bass end between the thumb and the other three (stronger) fingers (seeing that you've no bass-end hand strap) and you've still got two bass buttons to manage as well... :o
I've been doing it since the early '70s, so it's second nature to me, but others find it impossible! ;)
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I like long air bar, no problems with it