Melodeon.net Forums
Discussions => General Discussion => Topic started by: Idelone on April 11, 2012, 11:38:38 AM
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Dear All,
This is the first ever posting that I have made to a forum, so I would be grateful for your patience. Incidentally, I checked the first draft of this epistle using the preview facility and lost the message, so should this appear twice in a slightly different form, you will know why.
I have spent many hours going through the Q&A's, and have gleaned a lot of useful information from your interesting and informative site (that's the creepy bit over and done with), but not enough to tip me over the edge into buying a "box".
I have decided that I would probably need to buy a G/C/?/? melodeon to match in tonality to my brother-in-law's G/C Maugein, as at some stage, I wish to make sweet music with him. Hmmmm! I assume that this would be the correct choice, and that I shouldn't choose something completely off the wall to make interesting harmonies ? We will be playing French music of various styles.
I am musically literate, play saxes, have recently started playing (badly) chromatic harmonica, and, in the past, have sung and played in various bands; I am not sure if the melodeon will suit me, or even if I have the ability to play one, hence my reticence to purchase. How difficult is the instrument to play, bearing in mind that "spring" and "chicken" no longer apply in my case ? It doesn't strike me as particularly intuitive, pushing and pulling to achieve notes in what at first glance doesn't appear to be in a logical order. Is it as frustrating to play as it looks ? My other dilemma is that I want an instrument that I can grow into, should it prove to suit me, but not so basic that I will have to change it after a year or so. The rub is that I do not wish to spend more than £500, less would be preferable; yes I know you get what you pay for, but I have no desire to spend a fortune on what might be a whim. I would prefer not to end up MAD.
I would be grateful for any suggestions, well almost any suggestions, but certainly don't ask me to try playing with my brother-in-law's instrument (distance might prove to be an issue) !
Keep up the good work; I really enjoy TOTM by the way. I look forward to your replies, regards,
Ian
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If you have another G/C box player in mind, then yes, G/C is a good choice. You don't need a box in different keys for playing harmonies, and if you're new to the instrument you certainly shouldn't try that.
If you are going to play French music, that's another good reason for choosing G/C.
As to difficulty of playing - it's hard to predict. Some people take to the push-pull system easily, others are completely thrown but get on fine with the logic of one-button-per-note on other instruments. There is only one way you're going to find out...
The standard advice is a 2nd hand Hohner Pokerwork as an instrument to start with and quite possibly to carry on playing for many years. Usually that advice is applied to D/G instruments, but G/C Pokerworks do exist and have a lovely sound. Have a listen to http://www.youtube.com/user/grivemusicienne/videos for some excellent examples. Such an instrument should easily be in your budget.
Don't bother with three rows or more than 8 basses. There's masses you can learn on a 21 + 8 box, though it might be worth looking for one with accidentals on the end buttons.
And... welcome to melnet! :|glug
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Welcome, Ian! This is one of the friendliest and most civilised forums on the intermet, so it's a very good place to start. Spring chickens are a minority in this group, so you're in good company - although I'm sure there are some prime birds, you will also find a number of noisy roosters and a few of us tough old hens who are no long laying .... no, I think I'll abandon this metaphor before I say something I'll regret.
Anyway, the first thing that strikes me is that if you have any access to other people who own melodeons, perhaps you could borrrow one and see how you get on with it. Most people who take to the diatonic system do so quite readily, and soon know whether it's for them or not. Just the loan of a melodeon for a a few days might help you decide whether you want one - it wouldn't matter whether it was in different keys from the one you eventually chose to buy, as the intervals between buttons are the same, and between rows probably the same, depending on how many rows you choose.
As to how easy it is to play: it is not really logical, but many people find it IS intuitive, whereas an English concertina, by contrast, is more logical but less intuitive. You will know from playing a harmonica that the push/pull or suck/blow system is not as complicated as it sounds - in fact, having to explain it to someone is probably the most complicated thing about it. Any melodeon has its limitations (remove most of these and you end up with a piano accordion) but most players enjoy working within the boundaries of what the instrument can do, and sometimes stretching or challnging them, to surprising effect.
My one concern would be that if you live a long way from your brother and don't get to play music with him very often, you might find yourself a bit musically isolated the rest of the time if you choose a G/C or C/F box. But perhaps there's an active local French music scene that you have your eye on? For English music, such as you find at clubs, sessions and festivals, a D/G model is the way to go. Since your brother can play in G, you'd have that as common ground when you got together. But while playing along with another melodeon player is helpful and fun, it rarely results in interesting music, as the instruments are too similar. Harmonies and chords can all be done on one instrument, so two boxes can be - dare I say it? - too much of a good thing (although that never stops those of us who play at sessions).
I'm not the best person to advise on the buying the sort of box you're after. But getting a half-decent second-hand one of a reputable make will usually ensure that you don't lose much if you decide to sell it after a year or two.
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Great advice from Anahata and Marje (:)
I will just add the following...
Ian - just be aware that in most of the UK (except perhaps in Scotland) you will most often come across the D/G melodeon, especially second-hand instruments. The G/C melodeon is usually played in a somewhat different fashion from the D/G, especially for French music. Most tunes for the D/G work at the lower-pitched end (nearest your chin) of the keyboard, whereas the G/C is played mostly in the higher-pitched half (nearest the floor) of the keyboard. This is because the G/C can generally be thought of as an 'alto' or even 'tenor' pitched instrument; it is the lowest commonly available pitch of melodeons. The G-row of a G/C box is a whole octave lower in pitch than the G-row of a D/G box.
So, if you are definitely sure you want to go mainly down the French music route, get a G/C but remember that the required fingering technique will be slightly different from a D/G instrument. If you play a G/C box using D/G technique in the chin-end, the sound will come out very low-pitched and possibly muddy.
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Welcome to Melnet Ian.
All sound advice from the "Sages" above.
Start with whatever you think you need. There is a permenant market for all sorts of boxes. So no worries of wasted monies.
I've just bought my seventh box. :||: An Eb/Bb and it is just what I wanted for singing with the box.
I also have 2 x D/G's, :||: :|||: 2 x G/C's :||: :|||: 2 one row 4 stops in C and D :||: :|||: And now this new one. :|||:
All are used in the right envirament.
There are many on here that have many, many more boxes than I have. :|bl
Once saw Simon Richie come on stage with eight different boxes. And he used them all !!
It sort of becomes a habit (can be expensive).
Anyway enjoy yourself and welcome to the mad house.
Chas
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Hi Ian and welcome. I've been playing from scratch for about three months now and am enjoying it very much. I guess like anything else you'll only get out of it what you put in and you'll know from playing other instruments that regular practice is crucial. I'd recommend that you have a look at Daddy Long Les' video blog on Youtube. From memory I think there are about 13 video's charting Les' progress over a number of months. I found them very informative and quite instrumental in persuading me to take the plunge! I bought a DG pokerwork via the forum and have been delighted with it. I haven't found the note finding too difficult and can see that it's getting easier over time. If you've got a good ear from music, as I'm sure you have given your previous experience, I'd be confident that you'd get it pretty quickly. I would also recomend considering a few lessons if you can find someone in your area. Getting left and right hand to converse with each other, whilst each is doing different things has been a bit of a challenge but again I think it's coming really well now. The scope for a really pleasing, full, and harmonious sound is considerable as is the potential to inject a lot of rhythmic bounce and air into the music. Good luck and I hope you find what you're looking for.
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Hello Ian,
As a recent convert myself (& also not a spring chicken), I can tell you that the melodeon is the most fun instrument to play I have come across & probably the "easiest" in terms of achieving musically satisfying results in a relatively short amount of time. I started with a GC Pokerwork myself - there are lots of great French tunes to play on a GC as well as transposing tunes from other musical traditions. I wouldn't hesitate to get one because, frankly - as anyone on here will tell you - the chances are you will end up with additional boxes in other keys anyway!
Buying a second-hand Pokerwork is a good choice - I would opt for a properly refettled one & would strongly suggest investing in having it tuned drier than the standard wet Pokerwork sound. A box like this will also be easy to re-sell if (when) you eventually sucumb to MAD. (:)
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I'd agree with the advice so far, but also recommend you include not just the Hohner pokerwork, but also it's older relatives which can be found in GC, the the Hohner Erica which is the same instrument in a more rounded shape if case.
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Well, what can I say, but thank you all very much for your kind words, encouragement, and sound advice. I really hadn't expected such a friendly welcoming response.
I guess it means that I'm just going to have to get off the fence and find myself something to squeeze. I have looked on Ebay and tapped onto a few sites selling instruments but haven't found anything that meets my criteria, so the next obvious question is, "Does anyone have an 'Erica' or 'Pokerwork' in G/C up for sale, or perhaps know where one is on the market ?" I don't know, it's just me me me, want want want, self self self ! The next thing I'll be asking is if anyone knows of a good teacher, but let's not jump the gun, I need a "box" first. I knew I shouldn't have got rid of my cricket gear.
Steve F - My long term plans are to cross the channel, so the G/C would be my preferred option, so regarding your comments about alto/tenor for the G/C, does this mean that the D/G is closer to a soprano/alto ?
Eoin M - Thanks, yes I have seen the videos by DLL, and you're right, they do make interesting viewing.
Marje - No I don't have any friends over here who play the Melodeon, so as Anahata said, "There is only one way you're going to find out..." It's going to have to be "a toe in the water".
Once again, all of you, thank you very much for your extremely helpful advice.
Ian
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"Does anyone have an 'Erica' or 'Pokerwork' in G/C up for sale, or perhaps know where one is on the market ?"
It just so happens that as I now have 3 G/C Hohners one must go. So I have for sale a Mike Rowbotham (v good restorer) 1930's Pre-Pokerwork G/C box for sale for what I paid for it £400. It is a very good box but as I now consider myself to be a repairer/restorer in my own right I believe I should be playing my own boxes. I can do photos/video etc.
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Steve F - My long term plans are to cross the channel, so the G/C would be my preferred option, so regarding your comments about alto/tenor for the G/C, does this mean that the D/G is closer to a soprano/alto ?
The D/G box is the highest pitch of all the fourth-apart tuned instruments so it is definitely the soprano of the family.
Commonly available two-row tunings are, highest to lowest: D/G, C/F, A/D, G/C. Less common is Bb/Eb (mostly vintage instruments).
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Ian, I have a G/C German Pokerwork that is not being used that much.
Where abouts are you as you could borrow it for a week or two if you want.
I'm in S. Cambs.
Cheers. Adam
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When it comes to learning to get the first few tunes out of a box, the key doesn't doesn't really matter, so if you can borrow someone's spare for a couple of months you should be able to dispell any doubts you may have. Epsom is not a million miles from a number of people, so maybe a local morris side or someone on here can help?
I take it from the Spring + Chicken remarks that that isn't you trapezing from the spinnaker pole? A downhaul may be more controllable...
Rob.
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I have a friend who plays a G/C Weltmeister and it sounds alright - not sure if that's because of the player or the instrument. New they are about 800 euros I thought so I assume you can get them second-hand at about your price?
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I'm not too sure if one should reply personally to each response, or through the forum subject, so for the time being I will reply within the topic.
1930's Pre-Pokerwork G/C box for sale
Lester - I have no prior knowledge re instruments but my only concern with your offer would be with the age of the pre-pokerwork box. Is this relevant with respect to melodeons ? Perhaps as you suggested a video might be useful.
Ian, I have a G/C German Pokerwork that is not being used that much.
Where abouts are you as you could borrow it for a week or two if you want.
Adam - Thank you very much for such an unexpected generous offer; it would certainly remove any doubts that I have about getting on with the instrument. I live in Ewell near Epsom which isn't a million miles away from you but we would certainly need to discuss the finer details (security for you), especially as you don't know me from Adam (sorry about that).
I take it from the Spring + Chicken remarks that that isn't you trapezing from the spinnaker pole?
Rob - Yes it is me, though not trapezing, but in the throes of a spinnaker peel. I've noticed a few boaty pix; is there some connection between sailing and melodeons ?
Does anyone know anything about this melodeon ? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230766409952?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%3A80%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm570.l2736%26_nkw%3D230766409952%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1
Once again thank you all very much, Ian.
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Does anyone know anything about this melodeon ? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230766409952?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%3A80%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm570.l2736%26_nkw%3D230766409952%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1
Made by a Chinese outfit that will also (for the right size of order and price) make you instruments branded with any name you like. I don't know how good or bad they are.
(I wonder if I could get a genuine "Costalotti" from them?)
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Thanks Anahata, I'll not be buying one of those then. One less to be shipped over on a container ship.
Ian
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I seem to remember someone posting that those Ital-Alike Chinese boxes were lovely on the outside only and the innards were junk ..
Hohner even make an Ital-Alike, the Morgane which is basically a pokerwork re-styled with latin looks, it costs as much as a Sandpiper though which is made in china but to UK specs, has Italian reeds and is checked over and finished in the UK..
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I seem to remember someone posting that those Ital-Alike Chinese boxes were lovely on the outside only and the innards were junk ..
Hohner even make an Ital-Alike, the Morgane which is basically a pokerwork re-styled with latin looks, it costs as much as a Sandpiper though which is made in china but to UK specs, has Italian reeds and is checked over and finished in the UK..
Thanks Anahata, I'll not be buying one of those then. One less to be shipped over on a container ship.
I wouldn't dismiss a box like this out of hand simply because it's "made in China" - if you can look at it & play it in person it's worth considering.
The Morgane is not just "a Pokerwork re-styled with Latin looks" - it's a Pokerwork with mushroom buttons, a stepped bass, superior bellows & bellows tape, superior bellows straps, an adjustable bass strap, drier tuning & a faster, smoother playing action. It's a Pokerwork minus all the sub-standard, annoying things about a Pokerwork! The only downside is that the "Latin looks" & various improvements make it heavier than a Pokerwork. An older, properly re-fettled & re-tuned Pokerwork may still represent a great option, but I would definitely choose a Morgane or Sandpiper over a new Pokerwork. I can't speak for this Ebay listed box in particular, but in general I would say Euro-spec, Chinese-made accordions offer the best bang for the buck in new accordions.
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I wouldn't dismiss a box like this out of hand simply because it's "made in China"
Indeed not. I said I don't know how good or bad they are, and at the right price they may be good value for money.
I would caution, however, that while there is a lot of good stuff made in China, it's only usually good if it's made for a western reseller who enforces high standards of quality control, whereas the generic boxes described here are more likely to be made as cheaply as possible.
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The Morgane is not just "a Pokerwork re-styled with Latin looks" - it's a Pokerwork with mushroom buttons, a stepped bass, superior bellows & bellows tape, superior bellows straps, an adjustable bass strap, drier tuning & a faster, smoother playing action. It's a Pokerwork minus all the sub-standard, annoying charming things about a Pokerwork!
I've corrected that for you >:E
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Ha Ha Lester! We all know, you've made a good living taking those "re-fettled" Pokeworks & restoring them back to the charm of their stock condition! ;)
Indeed not. I said I don't know how good or bad they are, and at the right price they may be good value for money.
Yes, I understand what you were saying - I agree: the only way to know is to be able to try the box. There seem to a number of different boxes like this showing up, for eg:
http://cgi.ebay.fr/EXCELLENT-ACCORDEON-DIATONIQUE-GANKINE-NEUF-SOL-DO-A-SAISIR-PRET-A-JOUER--/270956406586?pt=FR_YO_InstrumentsMusique_Accordeons&hash=item3f1642a73a#ht_500wt_1285
It would be really informative to gather a variety of these boxes together for a bit of direct comparison.
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it's a Pokerwork with mushroom buttons, a stepped bass, superior bellows & bellows tape, superior bellows straps, an adjustable bass strap, drier tuning & a faster, smoother playing action. It's a Pokerwork minus all the sub-standard, annoying things about a Pokerwork!
The current pokerworks have stepped bass, Yeah the bellows tape is poor (Cheap if time consuming to change), the straps are easily changed for about £10, the bass strap is cheaply replaced with something better too, I`m not sure I`d want drier tuning in a Hohner, I guess they had to do it to one box.. If I was paying £750-£800 for a new box, It`d be a Sandpiper or save a bit more for a Saltarelle Le Bouebe and keep the Pokerwork for that Hohner sound.
I would say Euro-spec, Chinese-made accordions offer the best bang for the buck in new accordions.
The Black Diamonds certainly do (or did, i`ve not seen how much the prices have risen since they warned of one imminent), a classic example of Chinese construction with quality control .
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I would chose a Morgane over a Sandpiper. But a Bouebe secondhand over either of them (and that was my choice when I got mine!)
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It would be really informative to gather a variety of these boxes together for a bit of direct comparison.
Which reminds me: the other thing about cheap stuff is that the quality is very variable. It's always been like that with Pokerworks but many other things besides: best policy is to try out a whole bunch of supposedly identical boxes and pick the best one. Not practical on eBay of course...
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We seem to have arrived at a chicken an egg situation. To be able to evaluate a box, you have to be able to play one to appreciate the subtleties, and if like me you have no experience or do not know anyone locally who could assist with the choice, then your are rather on your own. If you have a budget then you are stuck with the choice available at that price, and could end up buying something amazingly good, or depressingly bad, which could alter your whole melodeon playing experience; a bit of a lottery. I remember when I first started sailing, a drunken skipper took five novices out for the weekend, and we ended up in some pretty nasty weather. I loved it and still sail, whereas the other four were ill, hated it, and have never sailed again, which is a great shame. One bad experience can alter your perception of something that could be great fun.
I guess most of you were in this situation at some time, and some made a lucky choice and others not so; perhaps another one of life's little learning curves. I will let you know what I finally choose, once I summon up the courage, but out of choice I would prefer not to purchase an instrument made in China, although sometimes it is not evident from the description.
Cheers, Ian
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Yes, I understand what you were saying - I agree: the only way to know is to be able to try the box. There seem to a number of different boxes like this showing up, for eg:
http://cgi.ebay.fr/EXCELLENT-ACCORDEON-DIATONIQUE-GANKINE-NEUF-SOL-DO-A-SAISIR-PRET-A-JOUER--/270956406586?pt=FR_YO_InstrumentsMusique_Accordeons&hash=item3f1642a73a#ht_500wt_1285
Airtime - I checked out the Gankine; this is what it sounds like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHzqO_2LXNc
Do you know its pedigree ? Could it be one of the made-to-order Chinese boxes like the Guidi ?
Cheers, Ian
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We seem to have arrived at a chicken an egg situation. To be able to evaluate a box, you have to be able to play one to appreciate the subtleties, and if like me you have no experience or do not know anyone locally who could assist with the choice, then your are rather on your own. If you have a budget then you are stuck with the choice available at that price, and could end up buying something amazingly good, or depressingly bad, which could alter your whole melodeon playing experience; a bit of a lottery. I remember when I first started sailing, a drunken skipper took five novices out for the weekend, and we ended up in some pretty nasty weather. I loved it and still sail, whereas the other four were ill, hated it, and have never sailed again, which is a great shame. One bad experience can alter your perception of something that could be great fun.
I guess most of you were in this situation at some time, and some made a lucky choice and others not so; perhaps another one of life's little learning curves. I will let you know what I finally choose, once I summon up the courage, but out of choice I would prefer not to purchase an instrument made in China, although sometimes it is not evident from the description.
Yes, I was in your position not very long ago. I was also confused & somewhat daunted by the conflicting information. And you're right: when you are not yet able to play anything, testing a melodeon is not going to help you much. Here's the insight I can offer based on what happened to me:
I first bought a 50 year old CF Pokerwork on Ebay for $190. It was in perfect external condition but required re-valving & tuning to be playable, which cost another $250. I also bought a 1980s GC Pokerwork on Ebay for $265 which was in perfect condition inside & out, playable & in tune. Following that, I was lucky enough to get a great Ebay buy on a very slightly used Hohner Morgane, which turned out to be a BC & not a GC as advertised. This I (in effect) traded for a GC Merlin. Subsequently I bought 3 very old Hohners which needed extensive restoring.
Ideally, what you want to find is something like my GC Pokerwork - a relatively recent German-built Pokerwork/Erica in new & playable condition. Here's a current example in the US:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/220999051607?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_500wt_1356
It's not possible to know FOR SURE what the playing condition will be of one of these boxes, but you can have a pretty good guess based on the information in the listing. The worst case scenario is that you might have to spend 100 - 200 pounds to have it fixed up. A Pokerwork like this is something you may always hang on regardless of what you go on to play & if you choose not to, you will always be able to re-sell for more or less what you paid for it.
The second option is to buy an older re-furbished Hohner - Pokerwork/Erica - from one of the professional restorers mentioned on this website. This will be a somewhat more expensive option than the Ebay purchase, but you will be getting a box you KNOW is playable & may also have had modifications made that make it easier to play & with a drier tuning. You are likely to pay between 300 & 500 pounds for one of these.
The third option is to buy a modern "Italian/French style" box that is "Euro spec", but partly or entirely assembled in China. Examples of these are the Hohner Morgane or the Sandpiper, or a number of other brands that pop up on the internet. It is hard to find these used, as they are recent additions to the market. New they are around $1000 US - apparently around 750 pounds in the UK. A new Pokerwork appears to be around 575 pounds in the UK, but does not include a case or straps. I can't speak about the Sandpiper or other brands, but based on my own experience, I consider the Morgane very significantly superior to a stock Pokerwork & a much better value than a new Pokerwork.
The final option is to start off buying a used or new Italian or French box. Which is going to set you back a lot more. You'd have to ask some of the better-off members of melnet for opinions on these boxes ...
Finally, I think it's unlikely that whatever option you choose you are going to end up with something that is so bad that it puts you off the melodeon completely.
Hope this helps!
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Pokerworks are £499 from the Music room, for an extra £50 you get a gig bag, two Hohner straps and a Mally book and CD - the Motgane is £750 and no mention of any extras with it ..
To be honest I`d not buy a new Pokerwork anymore than buy a new Morgane and I can see your point about the value of the morgane in this comparison (Difference of £250 maybe worth it to many, especially those not into DIY fettling who prefer a dry sound) but there`s no shortage of used pokerworks, Lester has a totally fettled one for £350 as well as other Hohners such as Ericas, Corsos, DoubleRays etc and if a better box is the order of the day, there are used italian boxes about (Bafettis, Saltarelles etc) ..
Loadsa Choice, different tastes, different pockets..
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I'm in the rural US and therefore have little accessibility to boxes. I scrounged ebay for mine--was able to acquire a couple of good old pokerworks, a corso, and an old club--each for ~$200. Hohners make great boxes for beginners. However, I haven't been quite smitten with any of my boxes until I obtained another old Club IIIB S -- just what the nomenclature desingates, I don't know. I love this box. And I acquired it for well under $200.
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In response to Airtime and Catty's postings.
Having checked out the US Ebay, it does seem that, at the moment, you have more on offer than we have on the UK site, but I guess that will change over time (more available in the UK not less in the US).
Catty, having perused past postings on this site, it seems that the view, for people like myself who are learning, is to stay away from the Club box, down to layout from what I can glean, but here you are saying you really love your Club. Is this down to ease of playing, keyboard layout, or the general feel of it ? What makes it so special ?
Never the less, it does seem from both of your postings, that once you buy one you somehow feel compelled to buy, another, and another, .......
Perhaps that's why there seems to be a dearth of boxes available in the UK; everyone here who plays has at least a dozen !
Thanks for your common sense views. Regards to you both, Ian
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It should be remembered that Hohners are not just beginners boxes. Yes, they make cheap boxes for beginners, but a well-fettled Hohner in good condition is a joy to play. I spent many years on a Pokerwork, constantly pining after a Costalotti. I am very happy with my Beltuna, as it works fantastically for some things, but I've since, er... regressed (?) to a wonderfully set up 12 bass Hohner Erika from Mike Rowbotham, which is an utter joy, and certainly my default box.
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In response to Airtime and Catty's postings.
Having checked out the US Ebay, it does seem that, at the moment, you have more on offer than we have on the UK site, but I guess that will change over time (more available in the UK not less in the US).
Catty, having perused past postings on this site, it seems that the view, for people like myself who are learning, is to stay away from the Club box, down to layout from what I can glean, but here you are saying you really love your Club. Is this down to ease of playing, keyboard layout, or the general feel of it ? What makes it so special ?
Never the less, it does seem from both of your postings, that once you buy one you somehow feel compelled to buy, another, and another, .......
Perhaps that's why there seems to be a dearth of boxes available in the UK; everyone here who plays has at least a dozen !
Thanks for your common sense views. Regards to you both, Ian
Ian, I'm more comfortable on the standard (?) layout on my other boxes...but as I said I'm not entirely enticed by their sound--corso is a little much, and the pokerworks lacking in playablility. I acquired one old Club III (for $60), and whille its tuning is a scant off I like its playability--so I sought another. Over christmas I acquired this one (for $160)...it plays and sounds beautiful. So, I persevere with its layout as I prefer its sound. I think I can say that, regarding all the aspects you mention--key feel, bellows feel, sound--in my hands, it's a more expressive instrument. Also, I have a few extra keys in more convenient location (the middle of the board on the 3rd row) than on the others (at the ends). Layout takes a little adjustment--some tunes seem to lie better on one box or the other--but I think the adjustment is not too difficult. Rather than the layout, I think the more significant differencesa are in the bellows action...the experts here can provide more insights into the differences in layout, and the basses. Simply, I love to play my tunes in minor keys...or what sound like minor keys on my box
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I think my precious (and heavy, btw) red club is as Ollie states--a "well fettled" hohner...very rich sounding and mellower in tone than my corso and the coronas I've played. Plus, switchable reed banks.
Add: but I am truly a bargain hound--being a "work-at-home" parent with limited means, I dont acquire a new instrument these days without selling another... So I hunt down the most inexpensive gear. I'm fortunate that some things here--like hohner melodeons, tenor banjos, and especially piano accordians--are sometimes cheap and plentiful...you can't throw astone without hitting an unplayed PA. either by necessity, lack of better judgement, or otherwise I try to take advantage of this--anyone need a good PA? :-[