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Author Topic: Domestic Harmony  (Read 2190 times)

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penn

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Domestic Harmony
« on: August 19, 2012, 11:02:59 PM »

In the interests of domestic harmony ( or even unison) I would like to learn to play some tunes with my wife who has a treble recorder. To complicate the issue (which is what's doing my brain in) she can play very well from dots on a soprano recorder, however the treble recorder is a fourth up (or fifth down I suppose) for the same fingering. 
So, she can play from music in C but it'll come out in F. 
I am playing a D/G Erica.
Can anyone suggest keys that might be playable whilst keeping the number of sharps and flats on the recorder to the minimum?
I've been told that on the fly transposition is not an option.
Or is this an opportunity to slip a new accordion into the house?
Thanks
Steve
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xgx

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Re: Domestic Harmony
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2012, 11:17:01 PM »

A cheap CF box should do the trick  ;)
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Graham

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Lester

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Re: Domestic Harmony
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2012, 08:16:10 AM »

Any tunes written in D will come out in G and tunes in A will come out in D. So just get your tunes in ABC format and print out the manuscript in both her key and yours and Robert's your father's brother.

Keithypete.

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Re: Domestic Harmony
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2012, 08:25:31 AM »

New accordion - you may never get an opportunity like this again. Although it would be cheaper to get your wife playing the whistle!
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Domestic Harmony
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2012, 10:13:43 AM »

The transposing nature of her instrument is actually a diversion here. Basically you need  to be on the scale scale/chords and it's a matter of what you can both comfortably achieve. F in D/G repertoire is F in rare, and our instrument basically has its sweet spot keys whereas a recorder is 'supposed' to be fully chromatic.

So its a matter of whether she's comfortable playing in (piano notation) D major, G major, or their related modes. To play in a mode of say D' you simply start on a non 'D' note - eg all the stuff played Em pull on your outer row. The consideration then is whether the scale starts on a practical note for her, and doesn't get to high in the playing.

  So can the lady 'manage' any of Dmaj, Gmaj, Amin, Emin or Bmin?
 (Bm plays across the rows and is well worth mastering for a melodeonista)

Once you've matched up scale - it becomes a matter of what music you both like  ;)  Be aware that recorder pieces tend to be in harmonic minor. Your box is could be set up for Emharm (it replaces D with D#) and that is why the B chord is major. The grand-daddy of the D/G box would have had a D# push 'accidental' too.  Modern set-ups vary, but turning the plates over isn't very hard.

I'd finally council you to not to 'both play tune'. That's harmonically pretty dull and you can do so much more on your "accord"ion!  Let your spouse play/develop/sparkle on what is basically a melody instrument - support that with chords  :D   Provided she is in the right key/mode (see above  ::)) there is a massive set of chords available on right end of your box - diligently researched and compiled by Darren Bottoms and Lester Bailey of this parish. You have left end chords too of course, but there's not so much flexibility. Right enders can be broken, arpeggiated, and you can do subtle changes - eg move just one finger to go from C to Am. 

Your lady will appear to be be the star, you just get a warm feeling and a happy marriage  :|glug
« Last Edit: August 20, 2012, 10:42:29 AM by Chris Ryall »
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penn

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Re: Domestic Harmony
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2012, 07:29:29 PM »

Thanks everyone, I knew this was the place to come. That's given me plenty to think about - I think I'd been getting too hung up about the idea of a recorder being 'diatonic', but I think that was basically wrong.
Thanks for the ideas and to Chris for the detailed explanations.
Steve
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Howard Jones

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Re: Domestic Harmony
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2012, 08:08:06 PM »

On a treble recorder, playing what would be the fingering for the key of D on a soprano (descant) recorder will come out in G.  To play in D, she'd have to use descant A fingering patterns.  If she can play by ear, this isn't too difficult an adjustment once you get used to it.

If she must play from written music, you could taken tunes written in D and play them on the G row of the melodeon and she will be able to play from music using her usual fingering for D but actually playing in G.  Or play tunes written in A and you play on the D row.  The alternative, as already suggested, is to use music software (such as ABC) to transpose the tunes so that she can read the notes using her usual fingering but playing in a different key.

The first option uses the original notation, but you play in a different key from what is written.  The second option transposes the notation but you end up playing in the original keys.

There was a long discussion on Mudcat about the pros and cons of transposing the notation for a different recorder rather than learning to read properly.  If it's just to play a few tunes then personally I think it's OK to cheat, but in the long run I have some sympathy with the opinion that you should just knuckle down and learn to read for the treble.  Not that I have.

Owen Woods

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Re: Domestic Harmony
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2012, 09:09:10 PM »

I learned clarinet, so I can read from treble and descant. Definitely you should knuckle down, but then I am the sort of person who learns trumpet valve positions in concert...
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Domestic Harmony
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2012, 08:53:53 AM »

I realised I've just done this. I wrote a little scottiche last week at Oxford Dance Camp and was playing it with a bass clarinettist. While I knew he had  a 'transposing' instrument I left that to him and certainly wasn't going to post his "how to do it" on an internet melodeon group (not that the field had any signal)! I saw my role to pick a key with as few #'s as possible, still offering me some bass power on the Oakwood. That was an Am,F riff: both are modes of {real money} C scale (only use C,D,E,F,G,A,B)

We did our discussion in 'concert pitch' as that was common currency. I didn't look up 'til today what our tone centre was called on Nick's clarinet ('Bm','G' modes of 'D' apparently). The issue was just what we could 'get at' together. Our solution was one 'accidental' for me and two #'s for him.

Amconcert might work on a D/G but I'd tend to want both F and Eb notes on pull. You also have no F on the left end. This suggests the 'field for exploration' might be tunes in Gconcert or it's Amdorian mode - (eg about half the Irish minor repertoire). If I calculate correctly wifey would be playing in 3 #s


BTW t'other Chris on my current ativar had just set off in a 'comfortable' Gmconcert on his trumpet and I'm the one trying to remember where C, Bb and Eb are ;)

Anyone curious about 'modes' - see http://chrisryall.net/modes (examples there are on our D row I'm afraid but still valid)
« Last Edit: August 21, 2012, 10:34:34 AM by Chris Ryall »
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Marje

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Re: Domestic Harmony
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2012, 02:06:19 PM »

On a treble recorder, playing what would be the fingering for the key of D on a soprano (descant) recorder will come out in G.  To play in D, she'd have to use descant A fingering patterns.  If she can play by ear, this isn't too difficult an adjustment once you get used to it.

If she must play from written music, you could taken tunes written in D and play them on the G row of the melodeon and she will be able to play from music using her usual fingering for D but actually playing in G.  Or play tunes written in A and you play on the D row.  The alternative, as already suggested, is to use music software (such as ABC) to transpose the tunes so that she can read the notes using her usual fingering but playing in a different key.

The first option uses the original notation, but you play in a different key from what is written.  The second option transposes the notation but you end up playing in the original keys.

There was a long discussion on Mudcat about the pros and cons of transposing the notation for a different recorder rather than learning to read properly.  If it's just to play a few tunes then personally I think it's OK to cheat, but in the long run I have some sympathy with the opinion that you should just knuckle down and learn to read for the treble.  Not that I have.

Some really sound sense and useful tips from Howard there (I'd expect nothing less!). The other thing you might persuade your swife to do is learn to play be ear, which might work out easier, and more useful in the long run, than learning to read staff notation all over again for the treble.

The other point to consider is the range of notes available. If the two of you play a tune in G (which is an easy and natural key for the treble), she won't be able to go any lower than the F#, so with tunes that jump down to the D below the keynote, she'll either have to skip notes or invent a workaround. But as someone has remarked, both of you playing the melody doesn't make for interesting listening, so if she could play a harmony line, she could arrange it in the range of available notes. This is another good reason for her to learn to play by ear, as it won't be easy to find ready-written harmonies to your tunes. If, on the other hand, she opts for playing the tune, you can do harmony/chords (probably a better arrangement), but she'll need to be able to reach all the notes and not rely on fudging it. She may find that for some tunes, the soprano recorder offers all the notes while the treble doesn't.

Anyway, think yourself fortunate to have a musical partner. I wouldn't trust my husband to accompany me on the shaky egg.
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Marje
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