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Author Topic: Jamming with guitarists etc  (Read 2342 times)

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Roland OBrien

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Jamming with guitarists etc
« on: August 26, 2012, 06:48:12 PM »

I've been jamming with some friends who play guitar, mandolin, ukulele (plus occasional fiddle). I am a virtual beginner on melodeon so at the moment I'm just picking out a few melody notes to add to the mix. My melodeon's a D/G. If they are playing in D or G I can usually find a few sympathetic notes that help fill out the sound. The tunes are usually simple 3 chord ones (roots type music).

It's more difficult if they are playing in C, F, A or E (which happens quite frequently). I've a couple of questions  (bear with me, I hardly know a thing about musical theory, but am trying to learn).

1. With a D/G melodeon should I be able to contribute at least some right hand notes, when they are playing in these other keys?
2. In these other keys, should I be able to add some bass notes?

If the answers are "yes", at least I know it's worth my while spending some time trying to figure out some accompanyments. Any tips would be very welcome.
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boxer

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Re: Jamming with guitarists etc
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2012, 07:46:27 PM »

my thoughts, for what they're worth:

There are probably things you could do in the non-D/G keys, but they would often amount to little more than odd notes in some of the keys you refer to. 

Capos liberate fretted players from the key constraints that you have to work under on the box.  There'd be a fortune for the person who invented a melodeon capo. 

A 2 and a half row (D/G with accidentals) box migh be some use to you, at least on the treble side.

B/C tuned boxes can do better - theoretically you can play them in any key, although they're usually played in G D A or related minors, sometimes in C or F, but, as I know to my cost, simple keys like E and Bb are tricky at first, and keys like Eb and Ab are a distinct challenge, especially when you only play them once a month or so.  If you're just playing slow song-like melodic lines you can usually get away with it, but dance tunes in odd keys require real effort.

If you can't be bothered with B/C (or C#/D for that matter), join a (dance?) band that only plays in fiddle keys, or buy yourself a fretted instrument (plus capo) to develop skills which complement your box playing, and that you easily can play along with your friends, whatever the key.

whatever you do, however you do it, keep on making music with other musicians.

good luck
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pbsalt

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Re: Jamming with guitarists etc
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2012, 08:08:50 PM »

I'm a bit lazy and tend to stick to the home keys of a 2 row  D/G melodeon + Em & Am but it is possible to play in A by missing out the top G sharp. Tony Hall plays some nice tunes in A on some of his recordings .
Personally with a D/G box I would  conisder persevering with tunes in A but don't think I'd attempt the other keys.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2012, 08:11:57 PM by pbsalt »
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Theo

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Re: Jamming with guitarists etc
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2012, 11:51:33 PM »

You have a range of minors and other modes too A minor E minor and B minor.
Right hand chords are another option. If you have some accidentals you should have possibility of chords or partial chords of Bflat, F,C,G,D,A,E,B, F# which gives you plenty of scope for accompanying tunes in several keys.
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Jamming with guitarists etc
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2012, 03:01:55 AM »

The guitarists in Cheshire do a song in G, than a tune in G, then  a song in G, than a tune in G, then  a song in G, than a tune in G, then ...

Seek out your right hand F chord (might be partial) which opens up C major. Minors as per Theo. Playing in A works too, though its dominant (E7) is weak as you probably don't have a pull G# - but experiment.

Mixolydian A (with a 7th=B natural) is popular with "roots" types, is all there on your D row, and offersan easy overlay of the melodeon's built in pull F# Blues scale. That's F# A B C C# E, all pull, and running up into 2nd octave on every D/G 2 row) Start on it's A note and it works well as "Amaj blues" and can should be put in judiciously eg over choruses. Once every Christmas, as strummer will stick his capo on fret 1 and play in F# minor (or even Blues!) and you'll sound really cool!  Arpeggiate your chords - most guitarists merely don't and it adds quite a lot. If you have a 4th position start box .. consider bass runs.

G is actually the key you can do least with harmonically  :-\, but you've got s lot of melody available.
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Marje

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Re: Jamming with guitarists etc
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2012, 09:46:11 AM »

Apart from G and D, A is often possible, albeit with a few skipped notes. You do have the three main basses for A, and sometimes it's quite effective just to do the basses if the tune is a bit of a struggle. If you can remove the thirds from your bass chords, this gives more flexiblity and you can pretend to play chords like E major or A minor although you're actually just playing open fifths.

If you don't have accidentals, the lack of an F natural (or, come to that, a B flat) on either side of the box will make tunes in F difficult or impossible. C can be tricky too, but you do have C and  G bass chords which will fit into tunes in C.

If you have accidentals on the right-hand side, this may allow you to find some of the missing notes.

Just keep trying, and you'll soon figure out which tunes/keys are accessible, and which are the ones when you should plan a trip to the bar. The other option is, when you're ready, to learn a few simple tunes that you can initiate. That way you get to choose the key and the tempo, and the others will have to fit around you.
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Roland OBrien

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Re: Jamming with guitarists etc
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2012, 01:09:04 PM »

Thanks for all the helpful & sagacious advice.

For a relative novice to the melodeon and musical theory, that has given me a lot to think about and work on - which is all to the good. It's encouraging to know there are quite a few options available, so I'm really looking forward to exploring them.

Thanks again.

Roland
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Roland OBrien

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Re: Jamming with guitarists etc
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2012, 07:10:18 PM »

I just have to say "thanks again"!

I've been playing around with chords (first time I've done it), as suggested. Luckily I've got a 4th button start and accidentals including F. It works a treat, and opens out lots of possibilities.
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Lester

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Re: Jamming with guitarists etc
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2012, 07:14:45 PM »

Chris Ryall

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Re: Jamming with guitarists etc
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2012, 06:34:10 AM »

Here's one we prepared earlier

  http://chrisryall.net/scalefinder.xls (also finds chords)
  Needs MSexcel, and macros turned on

.. Lester's pre-filled charts will probably be easier for a straight D/G.

One chord that's very useful (judiciously used) in a group is the 'sus'. To play it put a finger (middle for me) across the right end rows covering G+A pull buttons and pull. Doesn't sound to earth shattering like that .. but bring in a pull bass and it's power emerges. The basses to used in 'G' are pull C and pull D.  This allows the modal cadence

  susAG/Cbass |   susAG/Dbass | resolving to | Gright/Gbass

Depending on how your 4th start is set up there may be is a similar sus available for D, for me that is GlowAD on push and I play it against G and A push .. resolving to D (or G or Bm)! Basically the message is to find two touching notes in the scale in play, and experiment as to what basses work against it. The tension comes from the adjacent notes clash, the movement towards resolution from a bass run. Sus chords also work well for singing as they offer a softer and more flexible cadence than the more dominant D7 and A7.  :|glug
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Québécois

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Re: Jamming with guitarists etc
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2012, 03:25:26 PM »

There'd be a fortune for the person who invented a melodeon capo. 
Injecting helium in the bellows?
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Roland OBrien

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Re: Jamming with guitarists etc
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2012, 08:23:24 PM »

Thanks once again, both of you. More (pleasant) homework. I am already making good use of Lester's chord-sheets.

My box was thoughtfully set up by Mike Rowbotham. I can do that GAD push - on the G row my accidentals are F/Eb, B/C and D/F#; on the D row G#/Bb, G/A, A/C#. I'm now starting to understand why these are so useful. I'm really pleased I can get a (partial) F chord very easily, and doubtless there are many other advantages I have yet to find.

Lots to explore on the box, so little time to do it...
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