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Author Topic: FBE?  (Read 2743 times)

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Daddy Long Les

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FBE?
« on: September 01, 2012, 04:07:21 PM »

This is currently advertised on eBay.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-Row-Melodeon-Concertina-Accordion-Tunings-F-B-E-Other-Tunings-Available-/230841929295?pt=UK_MusicalInstr_Keyboard_RL&hash=item35bf404e4f#ht_500wt_1090

If the tuning is FBE this would appear to not fit in with the convention of other 3 row boxes i.e. GCF, ADG where the rows are a perfect fourth apart.  For this to be the same it would have to be F Bb Eb  or F# B E etc.  Can someone explain this to me please as if you were used to playing a GCF or ADG box your tunes would not work the same on this box?
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Theo

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Re: FBE?
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2012, 04:29:01 PM »

it is most likely to be a mis-translation from either F Bb Eb or F# B E from Italian solfege notation.  I think the seller is not a native speaker of English, so it would be quite understandable.  Best to ask the seller.
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Daddy Long Les

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Re: FBE?
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2012, 04:31:02 PM »

it is most likely to be a mis-translation from either F Bb Eb or F# B E from Italian solfege notation.  I think the seller is not a native speaker of English, so it would be quite understandable.  Best to ask the seller.
Ah, I see!!
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Christopher K.

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Re: FBE?
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2012, 05:20:41 PM »

I would also ask the seller as Theo reocmmended. But it is more than likely F/Bb/Eb. I think our Al has, or had, a Compadre in this tuning.

Lost Alamos

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Re: FBE?
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2012, 06:56:03 PM »

In german B is Bflat H is B...you should reaseach that but I believe it to be so.
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EeeJay

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Re: FBE?
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2012, 09:46:35 PM »

More commonly used alternate Tex-Mex tuning is F/Bb/Eb, so I'd safely assume this is one of those. The FBE shorthand probably stems from the woodstamps Hohner uses on their instruments, which would read as FBEs, and the s is kind of dropped - like Lost Alamos said, it's German key notation...

I think our Al has, or had, a Compadre in this tuning.

Think Al's was a Bb/Eb/Ab, if I recall... or BEsAs as the Hohner stamp would say (known in Colombia, where this tuning is popular, as "Cinco Letras" - i.e. 5 letters - because of this stamp)...

Ed J
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Adam-T

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Re: FBE?
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2012, 09:53:04 PM »

Bb/Eb/Ab is the alternative German tuning - it fits well with the Brass .
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forrest

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Re: FBE?
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2012, 05:05:00 AM »

To Les:  As the instrument shown in the listing seems rather recent (or new) it would be more likely an F/Bb/Eb tuning. I own a Hohner 3 row from the 1920's which is indeed an F#/B/E, which is marked in the old German way as : Fis/H/E where Fis is F#, H is B, and E is E. I think this tuning went out of style many decades ago, because I have not seen any more modern three rows in this key. I could certainly be mistaken, of course. And I'm sure someone could build a custom, as well. 
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Adam-T

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Re: FBE?
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2012, 07:20:37 AM »

It`s a generic Chinese box - Antonio (of Londonaccordions) is a really good guy and his English is a lot better than a lot of us would be speaking Italian but we all make mistakes - probably best to ask him ..
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Daddy Long Les

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Re: FBE?
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2012, 10:21:06 AM »

It`s a generic Chinese box - Antonio (of Londonaccordions) is a really good guy and his English is a lot better than a lot of us would be speaking Italian but we all make mistakes - probably best to ask him ..

Yep, spoke to Antonio - it's an F/Bb/Eb. 
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Owen Woods

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Re: FBE?
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2012, 02:46:18 PM »

A true FBE would be interesting...
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MarioP

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Re: FBE?
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2017, 12:25:03 PM »

So i got this 100+ year old box and it has that Fis B E.. does this mean this is a B# B E? or an F# B E?

« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 12:28:18 PM by MarioP »
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Anahata

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Re: FBE?
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2017, 01:43:40 PM »

F♯/B/E
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pgroff

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Re: FBE?
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2017, 02:42:11 PM »

So i got this 100+ year old box and it has that Fis B E.. does this mean this is a B# B E? or an F# B E?

Agree with Anahata that the box in your photo, if it has stamped lettering for Fis, ? E, is probably an "F# B E" in modern english terminology.

But are you sure the middle letter in the stamping is not "H" - that's what I'd expect.

PG
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MarioP

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Re: FBE?
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2017, 03:50:00 PM »

Looking at it closely I think the F is more of an Hs the B and the E are clear to me.

let me post a pic for assistance on making the H or the F (i could swear is F but the sound isn't all there) i know it's out of tune ..
but i'd appreciate any connoisseur on how to tell if thats an H or an F.. it's starting to feel more like an H dating back to 1904..

https://i1.wp.com/maestromartincom.files.wordpress.com/2017/12/img_5954.jpg?ssl=1&w=450
https://i1.wp.com/maestromartincom.files.wordpress.com/2017/12/img_5955.jpg?ssl=1&w=450
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Anahata

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Re: FBE?
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2017, 03:55:37 PM »

But are you sure the middle letter in the stamping is not "H" - that's what I'd expect.

Only if it was German. Couldn't the box be Italian? (or some other country that made accordions then and would have used Fis for F♯)
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pgroff

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Re: FBE?
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2017, 04:05:25 PM »

But are you sure the middle letter in the stamping is not "H" - that's what I'd expect.

Only if it was German. Couldn't the box be Italian? (or some other country that made accordions then and would have used Fis for F♯)

Hi Anahata,

MarioP's photo is small & not too clear but I think it's one of the early Hohners with color illustrations of Hohner on the metal pieces.

In the US these models are usually found in low or "continental" pitch ( A 435 ), and sometimes can seem even flatter if not restored (by cleaning, revalving, etc).

When I get home from my Christmas travels, I'll try to locate and post below photos showing the typical stamps for FisHE and for FBEs as seen on pre-war 3-row Hohners.

PG
« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 04:15:49 PM by pgroff »
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MarioP

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Re: FBE?
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2017, 04:08:33 PM »

The box is german 100% it's an M. Hohner with the M. Hohner little pictures faded away with time and oxidized due to humidity i'm sure negligence....I may have to red rid of those as they are causing leakage on the box.
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MarioP

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Re: FBE?
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2017, 04:19:04 PM »

I would have guessed it's 435 because .. here's what the project is looking so far.. :D don't laugh it's 100+

[/quote]

Only if it was German. Couldn't the box be Italian? (or some other country that made accordions then and would have used Fis for F♯)
[/quote]

Hi Anahata,

MarioP's photo is small & not too clear but I think it's one of the early Hohners with color illustrations of Hohner on the metal pieces.

In the US these models are usually found in low or "continental" pitch ( A 435 ), and sometimes can seem even flatter if not restored (by cleaning, revalving, etc).

When I get home from my Christmas travels, I'll try to locate and post below photos showing the typical stamps for FisHE and for FBEs as seen on pre-war 3-row Hohners.

PG
[/quote]
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pgroff

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Re: FBE?
« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2017, 06:08:08 PM »

The box is german 100% it's an M. Hohner with the M. Hohner little pictures faded away with time and oxidized due to humidity i'm sure negligence....I may have to red rid of those as they are causing leakage on the box.

Thanks for the pics, MarioP. On some of these Hohners (especially the very earliest accordions they made, and then later on some of the first examples of certain key models*), the stamping is unusual, seemingly they used non-matching stamps to make up the parts of the key designation. Also sometimes there are stamps that may refer to pitch (as opposed to key). The stamping of yours is really hard to read in those pics.  Again, when I can I'll post some other examples. It would also be interesting to see the stamping marks, if any, on the reedplates of your accordion. Some of these early ones have circles, squares, triangles, or other markings, rather than the "H" stamp.

« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 06:12:04 PM by pgroff »
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