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Author Topic: Melodeon Terms  (Read 25220 times)

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Earbrass

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Re: Melodeon Terms
« Reply #100 on: October 01, 2012, 10:58:49 AM »

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Ebor_fiddler

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Re: Melodeon Terms
« Reply #101 on: October 02, 2012, 01:32:21 AM »

Don't tell him Pikey!  :-*
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Re: Melodeon Terms
« Reply #102 on: October 02, 2012, 12:37:34 PM »

On the subject of Melnet-specific terms, perhaps "noodling" should be included. 
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Re: Melodeon Terms
« Reply #103 on: October 02, 2012, 02:00:02 PM »

On the subject of Melnet-specific terms, perhaps "noodling" should be included.

It's quite common outside of Melnet too, if you mean the practice of making vague improvisatory instrumental noises that don't merit being called a tune.

Or is there a different Melnet usage that I've missed?
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Theo

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Re: Melodeon Terms
« Reply #104 on: October 02, 2012, 02:01:28 PM »

Noodling is not a melodeon specific term as far as I am aware.

Which does raise the question of the scope of the melnet glossary. Is just for melodeon specific words?
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Re: Melodeon Terms
« Reply #105 on: October 02, 2012, 02:08:32 PM »

I hadn't heard it before I saw it here.  Perhaps it is not used in certain parts of the world. 
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deltasalmon

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Re: Melodeon Terms
« Reply #106 on: October 02, 2012, 02:27:35 PM »

"Noodling" is often used in certain Irish sessions with a rather bad connotation regardless of instrument.

Often heard the same places as "Sessions are for playing tunes, home is for learning tunes"
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Graham Spencer

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Re: Melodeon Terms
« Reply #107 on: October 02, 2012, 02:39:44 PM »

Been used in all the bands I've played in (ceilidh, social club, rock'n'roll, strict tempo - yes, really! - and pop covers) to mean quiet, meandering music, generally improvised, to fill in the background while, for example, the bride & groom go round & say their goodbyes, or the committee goes round with the last chance to buy raffle tickets.  No melodeons in most of those bands.......all the musos I've chatted to in the early hours in curry-houses or motorway services have known the term.
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Adam-T

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Re: Melodeon Terms
« Reply #108 on: October 02, 2012, 03:14:34 PM »

It's quite common outside of Melnet too, if you mean the practice of making vague improvisatory instrumental noises that don't merit being called a tune.


Sounds like my entire musical career  ;D
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Lester

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Re: Melodeon Terms
« Reply #109 on: October 02, 2012, 07:36:26 PM »

3-ROW   Three row boxes generally have at least two rows tuned FOURTH APART, and 12 (sometimes 18) basses, to support the available keys. Beyond this there is considerable geographical and individual variation. Three FOURTH APART rows (eg A/D/G or G/C/F) are popular in English country music and "TexMex".  European 3-rows are more likely to have a full HELPER ROW of accidentals covering 2-3 octaves, and note reversals. The 1990's "Pignol-Milleret" layout increasingly seen in France and Belgium has a G>G#  C-row replacement (from A harmonic minor), allowing all notes on the pull. The  "BCA" British Chromatic Accordion is completely different with rows a SEMITONE apart  B/C/C#.  Occasionally you will see hybrid FOURTH/Semitone systems such as C#/D/G or G/C/B

Chris - could you explain what the highlighted bit means as I don't understand it.

Chris Ryall

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Re: Melodeon Terms
« Reply #110 on: October 03, 2012, 08:25:22 AM »

From amuse.danse.free.fr .. (rt-click-view image to see)

He must say - slightly odd as the boys play 11/12/11 keyboards  ::)

In our terms

Push    G#    Eb     F     G#      Eb      F       G     Eb     F       G#       
    Bb     A      C      E      A       C        E        A       C       E       A      ("was" C row)
Db    D     G        B       D     G       B      D      G        B        D        G  (G row)

Pull      Db    Eb     G     Bb      Db      Eb      G      Bb     Db     Eb     
     Ab     B      D       F      G#      B       D        F      G#       B      D ("was" C row)
E     F#      A       C      E       F#      A      C       E       F#        A      C  (G row)

Pignol describes this as Sol + La mineur harmonique + accidenteaux. The aim is complete chromaticity on pull - where 80%+ of his playing, and all his impro happens. It also gives extra chromatic leeway on push (bottom octave is chromatic) , while (almost) still remaining a melodeon. The red notes are accidentals and reversals. G row is normal.

That Amharmonic row is the big change. It starts a button lower - throwing notes like C and E back where they belong. In our terms "Up and down the row" starting "A" now plays harmonic - rather than simple minor.

But you can start a musical scale or tune on any of a diato's 7 notes. In effect he is thinking of his C row as the 3rdmode of A harmonic minor - FWIW that's "Ionian #5" >:E  So it's a bit more than just sharpening the G  as the push/pull pattern has changed in the process, but as these guys cross row all the time that's pas de probleme.

In simple terms - he's just substituted the G push to G# on his C row and is content to deal with the consequences. I though that might be enough for a terms page?

I did however feel that 1. French system 3-row was pretty big worldwide and deserved a mention. 2. System Pignol-Milleret is growing like Topsy and I've seen a lot around France and Belgium. At least 3 French makers (and recently Castagnari) make them. I also got to play an ancient G/Amharm box in central Finland 2 years ago (it suits their music) - so there's more to it than modern jazz etc
« Last Edit: October 03, 2012, 08:27:03 AM by Chris Ryall »
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Theo

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Re: Melodeon Terms
« Reply #111 on: October 03, 2012, 08:50:03 AM »

This seems way more information than needed in a glossary of melodeon terms.  If the purpose is to explain the term three row something like this would be sufficient IMHO:

Three row:  an instrument with three rows of buttons on the treble side, each row playing a diatonic scale.  There are many different combinations of keys used on the three rows. (possible link to more details)

As I see it that explains the term "three row"
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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Lester

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Re: Melodeon Terms
« Reply #112 on: October 03, 2012, 08:53:03 AM »

Chris Ryall

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Re: Melodeon Terms
« Reply #113 on: October 03, 2012, 09:02:04 AM »

.. except that very few of the 3-row boxes you'll see on the racks of the Castagnari/Loffet/Saltarelle stalls in the summer has diatonic scale on all three rows. They do however (mostly) have two such rows (+/-accs)
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Lester

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Re: Melodeon Terms
« Reply #114 on: October 03, 2012, 09:25:53 AM »

Anahata

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Re: Melodeon Terms
« Reply #115 on: October 03, 2012, 09:44:12 AM »

.. except that very few of the 3-row boxes you'll see on the racks of the Castagnari/Loffet/Saltarelle stalls in the summer has diatonic scale on all three rows. They do however (mostly) have two such rows (+/-accs)
That'll be in France, I guess...
Two rows + accidentals should perhaps also be mentioned as an option in Theo's description. But really that's a two-and-a-half row where the half row has grown to full size.

Elsewhere, the three row diatonic system is widely used and has a whole playing style to go with it. Tex-Mex and similar are three row GCF or ADG, and I can think of two ADG Hohner Coronas owned and played by people I know around here.
"student model" Steiriche boxes are also three row diatonic, albeit with Gleichton on middle and inner row.
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Theo

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Re: Melodeon Terms
« Reply #116 on: October 03, 2012, 09:52:56 AM »

Good point, so:

Three row:  an instrument with three rows of buttons on the treble side, each row playing a diatonic scale, or with the inner row made up of accidentals.  There are many different combinations of keys used on the three rows. (possible link to more details)
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Re: Melodeon Terms
« Reply #117 on: October 03, 2012, 10:00:18 AM »

That'll be in France, I guess... Two rows + accidentals should perhaps also be mentioned as an option in Theo's description. But really that's a two-and-a-half row where the half row has grown to full size.

Oui! I really didn't want to suggest all the above in a terms paragraph, but if you look - I did think Tex-Mex deserved a mention as it is such a big style. I'd personally see 2½ as a cut down three, but admit there are 2½ (this is melnet!) ways of looking at that  ;)

Quote
"student model" Steiriche boxes are also three row diatonic, albeit with Gleichton on middle and inner row.

With respect .. that Gleichton makes them no longer diatonic - hence Club "system"  ::)
Quite like Theo's v2. At the root of this is that there is a lot of variation across the World  :|glug
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Mike Hirst

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Re: Melodeon Terms
« Reply #118 on: October 03, 2012, 12:03:46 PM »

there is a lot of variation across the World

It would seem to me that there essential point here is that these are regional variations (often, but not always, influenced by an older generation of indigenous music making).

From my own experience I can offer the following regional variants:

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Italy
------------------------------------

du botte -  1.5 row two bass instrument like single row with half row of reversals. The main row of buttons can be anything from 5 to 11 buttons. The reversal row is usually between 2 and 5 buttons, but I have seen examples with a full row (10 buttons) of reversals. There are also examples of the above with four bass buttons.

maggiore minore - similar to the du botte instrument, but with a switch to reconfigure the major scale to a minor key.

organetto - this is the name usually associated with a two row forth apart instrument, although it can also be used to describe the du botte instrument, and in some instances is used to describe a small portative organ.

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Tejano/Norteno/Conjunto(Tex Mex)
------------------------------------

acordeon - The majority of musicians playing these styles favour three row instruments, although there is a small number of musicians who play two row. The standard here is the Hohner Corona layout, which is copied by other makers. These are commonly played in GCF, EAD, BbEbAb and to a lesser extent ADG. It is common for the bass reeds and blocks to be removed completely. This gives a much lighter instrument and also allows the chord buttons to be used as a massive and extremely responsive air button. There are also variants among this basic pattern. Most common here is a recent shift towards four row fourth apart instruments.

dos tonos - there is also a significant number of musicians who favour two tone (dos tonos) instruments these are similar to the three row acordeon described above, but with a switch which allows changing between two sets of reeds. Common combinations include Fa/Mi (FBE/EAD), Sol/FA (GCF/FBE) and Sol/Mi (GCF/EAD). Other combinations are possible.

------------------------------------
Vallenatos
------------------------------------

cinco letras - Musicians in Columbia favour the three row Hohner layout, but unlike Tejano/Norteno/Conjunto musicians they make good use of the 12 bass buttons. The majority of the Vallenato Accordions are tuned in Bb-Eb-Ab (Si bemol, Mi bemol, La bemol), the "cinco letras", or the "five characters", for the five characters in the German name for this tuning.

------------------------------------
Portugal (Desgarada?)
------------------------------------

concertina - Portuguese musicians favour the three row (Hohner Corona) layout, but club boxes are also common. Both these instruments are commonly referred to as concertinas.

There are many other regional variations that could be added to this list.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2012, 12:13:04 PM by Mike Hirst »
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Stiamh

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Re: Melodeon Terms
« Reply #119 on: October 03, 2012, 01:59:12 PM »

Italy

du botte -  1.5 row two bass instrument like single row with half row of reversals.

Thread drift alert...

Mike, do you know anything about the origin/meaning of this name? My curiosity was aroused by the "du", which looks French rather than Italian.

Assuming it's a short form of "due" in informal speech or dialect, "botte" would then be the plural of "botta", and the phrase might mean something like "two hits/blows/belts". A reference to the push-pull action? Or the two bass buttons?

Here's the only web reference turned up by a quick search to "due botte" (as opposed to du botte) in a melodeon sense - some interesting other meanings though! 

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/14342467
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