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Author Topic: Tune of the Month for October 2012 - South Downs Jig  (Read 15446 times)

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pikey

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Re: Tune of the Month for October 2012 - South Downs Jig
« Reply #40 on: October 03, 2012, 04:50:45 PM »

Here we go.  The 'slows' are more like playing 3 to a bar in  tune with 4 bars - marked  with a '3' over the notes. I've tried to make them work - see what you think.

I've reflected the obvious morris source by playing 3 B parts, and ending on a A part.

I heard this on Banquest of Boxes, was blown away, but then forgot about it. Thanks to TOTM it's now firmly in my repertoire!

The video is a bit jerky, so avert your eyes....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAhddt58t1I&feature=youtu.be
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Andy Next Tune

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Re: Tune of the Month for October 2012 - South Downs Jig
« Reply #41 on: October 03, 2012, 06:58:49 PM »

Having watched South Downs Morris on that brief Youtube video  - a young team dancing slowly and so athletic and getting plenty of height, you can perhaps understand why the tune struggles within the confines of musical notation. The 'pause' was probably variable length depending upon the dancer and the height of their caper, or whatever.

Be nice to see someone compose a new jig for this.

Andy
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Re: Tune of the Month for October 2012 - South Downs Jig
« Reply #42 on: October 03, 2012, 07:04:00 PM »

Is this horse dead yet?

This is a transcription based on Howard's version. Actually I edited the one at the top of the thread.

X:1
T:South Downs Jig
R:jig
C: Jim Harding
M:6/8
L:1/8
K:G
|: dcA G3 | EFG A3 | D>EF GAB | cde d2d |
dcA G3 | EFG A3 | D>EF GAB | c>AF G3 :|
[M:3/8] Bcd |[M: 6/8] e2c  d2B | c2A  BGE |e2c d2B |"rall." (2cB A3 |
DGF E3 | cBA F3 | D>EF GAB |1 c>AF G3 :|2 cAF G3 |]

X: 2
T:South Downs Jig
R:jig
C: Jim Harding
M:6/8
L:1/8
K:G
|: dcA G3 | EFG A3 | D>EF GAB | cde d2d |
dcA G3 | EFG A3 | D>EF GAB | c>AF G3 :|
[M:3/8] Bcd |[M: 6/8] e2c  d2B | c2A  BGE |e2c d2B |\
[M: 7/8]c2B2 A3 |
DGF E3 | cBA F3 | D>EF GAB |1 c>AF G3 :|2 cAF G3 |]

Notes:
  • The two versions vary only in the middle of the B music. The first version is how I feel it should be written and felt, with a slowing down on those two notes; the second (with the 7/8 bar played in strict tempo) is a pretty close approximation to Howard's actual timing
  • Instead of a 9/8 bar mid-B section, I felt the emphasis was on the first beats of of the bars at the start of the B music as shown. An extra half bar between figures/figures and chorus in a real dance is quite plausible too.
  • I have added dotted-quaver/semiquaver pairs where Howard consistently and clearly uses that rhythm. In other places there are less exaggerated deviations from straight quavers, and in some cases the shorter note is the first instead of the second, like a Scottish snap, but the extent of that is subtle and up to the player

Rendered dots below for quick reference.
I shall not elaborate further on the notation details now - I've taken it as far as I want to, if not further  :Ph
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pikey

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Re: Tune of the Month for October 2012 - South Downs Jig
« Reply #43 on: October 03, 2012, 07:15:38 PM »

I  reckon it'd actually a bar in 4/4 for the 'slow' bit , with two single length notes and one double length , timed so that you get 8 beats in that bar as opposed to 6 in all the others. Hence it isn't 9/8.
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Howard Jones

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Re: Tune of the Month for October 2012 - South Downs Jig
« Reply #44 on: October 03, 2012, 08:00:04 PM »

what's that odd chord at the end of the slows please? I just can't seem to get it...

I'm playing a C and E against an A in the melody, which (I think) gives an inversion of Am.  Not perhaps what you'd expect for a tune in G, but very concertina-ish (and as Pikey pointed out, rather Kimber-ish) and I think creates a pleasing tension.

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pikey

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Re: Tune of the Month for October 2012 - South Downs Jig
« Reply #45 on: October 03, 2012, 08:16:44 PM »

...and a lovely Kimberish tension it is too.....

Btw - what 'tina are you playing?
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Chris Brimley

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Re: Tune of the Month for October 2012 - South Downs Jig
« Reply #46 on: October 03, 2012, 09:44:45 PM »

Hmm - still not sure about the strict tempo 4/4 or 7/8 ideas for representing that 'slow' in Howard's version - wouldn't both lose his underlying beat?
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pikey

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Re: Tune of the Month for October 2012 - South Downs Jig
« Reply #47 on: October 03, 2012, 10:11:16 PM »

This represents a perfect example of the difficulty of notating music from a tune (and timing) that was developed by ear!

Musical notation is always an attempt to write down how it should sound, and it is (and never can be) an exact science. That's why good conductors can make a piece of music sound so different from another - the written notes don't change, just how to interpret them.

It's also why IMHO you should always try to learn by ear, and not from the dots (although I agree they can support learning by ear), for precisely the reasons in this thread - you can't always capture on paper how the tune is meant to sound.

Hence why I believe the use of ABC has led to the loss of character of so many beautiful tunes (see comments at the begining of this thread).

My advice to others that want to learn this gorgoeus TOTM (and all other tunes too!) is:

- Listen to the versions posted, several times, to get them into your musical mind
- if you like using written music, look at Anahatas notations to see what the notes are and the general structure of the tune
- Practice until you know where the notes are
- Listen to the posted versions again to see how the rhythm really works

There is no subsitute for listenng to someone playing a tune to see how it should go.

 ;D
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Anahata

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Re: Tune of the Month for October 2012 - South Downs Jig
« Reply #48 on: October 03, 2012, 10:19:02 PM »

Hmm - still not sure about the strict tempo 4/4 or 7/8 ideas for representing that 'slow' in Howard's version - wouldn't both lose his underlying beat?

Yes, but he does stretch the beat a little at that point (I think it's about a quaver's worth, hence the 7/8 bar)
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Re: Tune of the Month for October 2012 - South Downs Jig
« Reply #49 on: October 03, 2012, 10:52:53 PM »

Yes, I agree, Pikey - I'm not concerned about how to notate it just as an exercise, rather to try to understand what's going in the rhythm, because I agree with Howard about this little bit in his version being important to the feel of his version of the tune, as are his variations in syncopation.  As I was saying earlier, it seems to me that the cleverness of a 'slow' is that the original beat often carries on silently underneath, and when it's resumed afterwards it's a lovely effect (AFAIK unique to Morris), and I think that's what's happening here.  I agree with you Anahata that there is a very slight slowing-down in his playing, but if you try tapping strict LR,LR through this section, you'll see that it fits pretty closely, but you end up RL,RL, implying that there's a 3/8 or 9/8 bar.

It seems to me this isn't just an academic exercise, it's about the essence of the rhythm of these tunes.  On the earlier debate, sure, it's absolutely fine to adapt and modify a tune to what you like, and it's also nice to understand its origins.

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pikey

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Re: Tune of the Month for October 2012 - South Downs Jig
« Reply #50 on: October 03, 2012, 11:03:52 PM »

I would love to see the dance notation to work out what's going on in the slow bit. Maybe a slow forrey caper, or a leapfrog?
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Howard Jones

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Re: Tune of the Month for October 2012 - South Downs Jig
« Reply #51 on: October 03, 2012, 11:18:37 PM »

.Btw - what 'tina are you playing?

It's a Dipper Cotswold G/D.
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Re: Tune of the Month for October 2012 - South Downs Jig
« Reply #52 on: October 04, 2012, 12:39:09 AM »

Here's my version of this tune; one of the tunes that I'm not sure what I could do to it without doing damage, so here it is, played simple and sweet on the Castagnari Giasco in D/G.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7RK5h-OvqQ

Movie maker trashed my video for me, which given the melodeon face on it wasn't a bad thing, so I salvaged the soundtrack which I record separately anyway, and made a simple photo/soundtrack video. Really, it's much more pleasant to look at than the original.

Cheers,

Clive

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Re: Tune of the Month for October 2012 - South Downs Jig
« Reply #53 on: October 04, 2012, 01:34:11 AM »

I think I need to record a box version...
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Chris Brimley

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Re: Tune of the Month for October 2012 - South Downs Jig
« Reply #54 on: October 04, 2012, 12:31:58 PM »

Listening to everyone's versions, there's certainly lots of interesting variations in beat emphasis here, related to Ollie's earlier point.  Like Ollie, I've also always 'heard' the DDCA as an anacrusis, and  mentally shifted the bar lines.  However, the more I listen to this tune, the more I'm thinking, perhaps the tune was originally conceived by Jim Harding as being in 3/8, without any such emphases?  Certainly, the single 123, 123 beat seems to work for me as I try to play it.  It would be so nice to know how the dance went when he played it, as you say Andy!

As everyone says, this is a really interesting tune.
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Re: Tune of the Month for October 2012 - South Downs Jig
« Reply #55 on: October 05, 2012, 11:19:30 AM »

I had a bit more time than usual and have really enjoyed listening to all the uploads so far and trying to play along with those in the right key.

So here an attempt:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_h7Kiw8c0-w&list=UUvD6wxTdPKq2dN7O7QAd9-g&index=1&feature=plcp

playing it back and comparing with other uploads I realise just how much of the tune I don't seem to grasp, Oh well back to practising  :(

Louise
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Chris Brimley

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Re: Tune of the Month for October 2012 - South Downs Jig
« Reply #56 on: October 05, 2012, 01:29:46 PM »

Here's my interpretation of this:

http://soundcloud.com/chrisbrimley/south-downs-jig

This took me a long time to work out, and it's still not quite right.  I wanted to try a mix of different bits from other versions - I liked particularly Ukebert's free rhythm, Ollie's insights into the tune's rhythmic structure, Howard's syncopation and 'slows' (although I think I used a different timing), and Anahata's transcriptions.  I've attached a Musescore file (also in pdf) of my interpretation with my chords (letters in brackets are bass notes).  I'm now trying to think of this tune as being in 3/8, so that's how I've written it out.

The main difficulty for me in playing this is the 'slow' in the B music.  I think of the CDB quavers (in the first bar of the 'slow') as being doubled in length, so that each note becomes a crotchet.  This means playing 3 notes evenly against a 2-beat rhythm, which I don't find easy!  The idea was to keep the underlying rhythm going.

(Silly end is Mr McCartney's.  Apt words, I thought, while working out the 'slow' in this tune: 'How do you manage to make ends meet?)

« Last Edit: October 05, 2012, 02:06:16 PM by Chris Brimley »
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Re: Tune of the Month for October 2012 - South Downs Jig
« Reply #57 on: October 07, 2012, 08:19:14 PM »

Here's my offering. I'm really enjoying playing the liliput it's recorded on. Couldn't get a take without mistakes though so had to admit defeat and go with this, at least it gets across what I was trying to do...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMGFJG41sQA

Thanks.
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Re: Tune of the Month for October 2012 - South Downs Jig
« Reply #58 on: October 07, 2012, 10:01:29 PM »

http://youtu.be/h6kwRijhHZE

My first post for the tune of the month.

South Downs Jig played in G on a B/C Weltmeister 512.

Maybe next month I'll learn to play basses along with the tune.

EDIT: I should have considered posting this into the Beginner's showcase instead... Oh wells...
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Re: Tune of the Month for October 2012 - South Downs Jig
« Reply #59 on: October 08, 2012, 01:01:16 PM »

Mindful of which forum this is, I've now recorded a melodeon version:

http://soundcloud.com/howardj/south-downs-melodeon

Still needs a bit of work really.  I think I'll stick to playing it on the anglo, but it has some interesting possibilities on melodeon.
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