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Author Topic: Fettling a Liliput  (Read 21850 times)

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pikey

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Re: Fettling a Liliput
« Reply #60 on: October 27, 2012, 05:06:33 PM »

You could always do what my mate Harry Scurfield used to do - get hold of some fresh horse bones, boil then up in your wifes pressure cooker, and make your own glue.

On second thoughts....
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Re: Fettling a Liliput
« Reply #61 on: October 27, 2012, 05:07:55 PM »

What would you use Martyn?

Martyn, What would you use?
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Adam-T

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Re: Fettling a Liliput
« Reply #62 on: October 27, 2012, 05:09:37 PM »

There was a young fettler called Stephen
Who just couldn`t get pallets even
so he filled his Club-II
with loads of Hot Glue
and now they are stuck and not Breathin '
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Re: Fettling a Liliput
« Reply #63 on: October 27, 2012, 05:10:19 PM »

You could always do what my mate Harry Scurfield used to do - get hold of some fresh horse bones, boil then up in your wifes pressure cooker, and make your own glue.

On second thoughts....

I worked up in Wallsend on a new build ship whilst I was in the Royal Navy. The glue and fertilizer factory were just down river. My wife would not let me near the kitchen or even the neighbourhood for that matter!
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Martyn

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Re: Fettling a Liliput
« Reply #64 on: October 27, 2012, 05:12:00 PM »

What would you use Martyn?

Martyn, What would you use?

Steve, I would use 10mm linen circles. Stiffen the linen slightly using well diluted PVA to stop them fraying and when dry use a leather punch. Glue them in place with PVA.

Martyn
« Last Edit: October 27, 2012, 05:25:59 PM by Martyn »
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Gandy

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Re: Fettling a Liliput
« Reply #65 on: October 27, 2012, 05:12:50 PM »

Steve, I would use 10mm linen circles. Stiffen the linen slightly using well diluted PVA to stop them fraying and use a leather punch. glue them in place with PVA.

Martyn
Now I'm surprised.  I would have thought that PVA impregnated linen glued to wood with PVA would be much more difficult to dismantle than hot melt.  I was expecting you to recommend wax or maybe scotch glue.   What would have been used originally?
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Re: Fettling a Liliput
« Reply #66 on: October 27, 2012, 05:15:33 PM »

I use hot glue for fixing pallets too.  Quick and convenient to apply, easily removed when the time comes, allows a small amount of flexing to let the pallet bed in, and it is what Hohner have used for some years now.

When restoring a vintage instrument I prefer to use traditional methods. It is just as quick and allows time for adjustment, should you need it.
Hot glue was never used on Liliputs  ;)

Martyn

So Martyn you wouldn't use plastic valves on a Liliput?

I'm all for working conservatively with old things, so for example I always prefer to use scotch glue for woodwork repairs where this was the glue used originally, and imho has not been bettered by modern glues, it is quick and convenient to use, and unlike the majority of modern glues it can easily be released with warmth and moisture.  But in other cases, like pallets I'll use a modern alternative, if (a) it has advantages, and (b) it doesn't compromise the instrument, and it can be easily and completely removed if required. 


I've never had a problem like this and I must have done hundreds of pallet re-facings now. Once the keyboard has been removed, give the pallets a little twist and they are off.


All I can say is you have been dead lucky.  I've seen lots of examples of Hohner lever ends badly rusted where the meet the pallet.  The area in contact with the glue always seems to be the worst affected.
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Re: Fettling a Liliput
« Reply #67 on: October 27, 2012, 05:16:47 PM »

It's not always convenient to have a glue pot simmering away in the workshop.....the customers don't like it  ;)
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Re: Fettling a Liliput
« Reply #68 on: October 27, 2012, 05:18:45 PM »

It's not always convenient to have a glue pot simmering away in the workshop.....the customers don't like it  ;)

I'd have thought it would enhance your image as a user of traditional processes. ;D

I don't keep mine on all the time, just put it on 10 minutes before I need to use it.
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pikey

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Re: Fettling a Liliput
« Reply #69 on: October 27, 2012, 05:21:34 PM »

There was a young fettler called Stephen
Who just couldn`t get pallets even
so he filled his Club-II
with loads of Hot Glue
and now they are stuck and not Breathin '

THREAD DRIFT ALERT!!   But superb!  >:E
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Re: Fettling a Liliput
« Reply #70 on: October 27, 2012, 05:26:00 PM »

Thanks Pikey .......  ::)

While we`re on the Pallet subject - I`m waiting your tale of Chewing gum to hold a pallet on at a gig and it still being there now ... I`ve actually SEEN that in an old Club box - the pallet was a little loose but hangin' in there - I resisted the temptation to re-chew the gum (which was probably 1960s) to fix it
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syale

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Re: Fettling a Liliput
« Reply #71 on: October 27, 2012, 05:27:27 PM »

I've never had a problem like this and I must have done hundreds of pallet re-facings now. Once the keyboard has been removed, give the pallets a little twist and they are off.

10 of mine were rusted in and I damaged 2 pallets separating the arm from the pallet. Paul G is very kindly send me a couple of replacements. The odd thing is that I bought a piece of 1/2 inch square timber from a hobby shop to fabricate a couple of pallets and when I got it home I noticed that the label with the barcode on had 'Made in China' written on it which caused the hairs on the back of my neck to go up! Paul came to the rescue with some OEM parts...
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Re: Fettling a Liliput
« Reply #72 on: October 27, 2012, 05:29:29 PM »

There was a young fettler called Stephen

Young, I like that!
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Re: Fettling a Liliput
« Reply #73 on: October 27, 2012, 05:40:27 PM »

Thanks Pikey .......  ::)

While we`re on the Pallet subject - I`m waiting your tale of Chewing gum to hold a pallet on at a gig and it still being there now ... I`ve actually SEEN that in an old Club box - the pallet was a little loose but hangin' in there - I resisted the temptation to re-chew the gum (which was probably 1960s) to fix it

No chewing gum, but the emergency on-tour pallet pin made out of a Swan Vesta lasted in my Pokerwork for nealry 20 years. Even then, I only took it out 'cos I needed to get the end off to repair the leaky gasket, otherwise it would still be there now!

 :D
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Re: Fettling a Liliput
« Reply #74 on: October 27, 2012, 05:43:56 PM »

I remember the matchstick bellows pin (and the carpet tape on the bellows) hence why I asked  ;D
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Re: Fettling a Liliput
« Reply #75 on: October 27, 2012, 05:44:36 PM »

The boxes that I've refaced I used wax. That's how my Bouebe pallets are fixed in, so I reckoned that it was probably OK. I think that PAs tend to have wax as well. It is quick and easy to apply and easily renewed.
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Re: Fettling a Liliput
« Reply #76 on: October 27, 2012, 05:48:21 PM »

My BP-IIs are too, it seems to be an Italian thing (seen it in Scandalli, Paolo, Orfeo etc) - but then their pallets are designed for it and the lever arms a round bar - I don`t think it`d work as well with Hohners thin steel arm in a slot
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an bosca ceoil

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Re: Fettling a Liliput
« Reply #77 on: October 27, 2012, 09:00:49 PM »

What would you use Martyn?

Martyn, What would you use?

Steve, I would use 10mm linen circles. Stiffen the linen slightly using well diluted PVA to stop them fraying and when dry use a leather punch. Glue them in place with PVA.

Martyn

 One can use bookbinders linen which comes already stiffened, so dots can be punched out without fraying and ready to use.
Whilst Hohner now actually glue pallet to the arms I imagine that the original idea was merely to fix the dot to the pallet, relying on the cutout in the arm to keep it in situ.
(If you are quick enough, and have a high enough pain threshold, there is no reason that you cannot use hot melt and still affix dots to make the job look right)
Regarding the use of wax, I could not help thinking (from a purely aesthetic point of view), how much tidier the bass end of Ukebert's "Impiliput" would have looked with original  Imperial styled pallet straps.
(Daresay such a criticism is a bit rich coming from someone who has been slagged off here for marking up reedplates!)
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Re: Fettling a Liliput
« Reply #78 on: November 04, 2012, 03:41:38 AM »

Started work tonight.

Got all the felt/leather glued to the pallets. Put the pallets back in either end and my buttons are sunk in a little further due to the thickness of the felt/leather. Hoping it doesn't make a difference when being played!
Replaced the muslin on either end.
Replaced the bellows gasket but I still have leaks so it looks like I need a thicker gasket. Probably visit the hardware store tomorrow and see what I can find.

She is looking good but has no heart at the moment till I build the tuning bench which looks like it will be next weekend. Enjoyed every moment so far  8)
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Re: Fettling a Liliput
« Reply #79 on: November 04, 2012, 07:53:50 AM »

Leaks may also be due to a breakdown of the glue on the soundboards at both ends, easy to fix, just run glue around the joint.. preferably the Scotch glue originally used but lesters method of running superglue around works too if there aren`t any gaping gaps as it seeps into the cracks nicely .. whatever, don`t use reedwax to seal it as it soaks into the wood and you won`t be able to use glue ever (and do you want a box held together with Wax?)

Another classic Hohner leak point issue is the bellows frame corners parting, a thick dose of PVA should sort that. Check the bellows pins too, My liliput was actually leaking through them , I swapped them with ones from a Corso and all was well (the corso ones were a bit rusty and it took up the slack. talking of bellows, check that it`s not leaking between the bellows and the frames , that`s common too .

As far as fettling is concerned, I don`t do tricky stuff, IE:- I`ve not ventured into heavy grade tuning and don`t like messing with reed blocks with no gaps between the reedplates or where the blocks are close and glued in but I`m getting really good at sealing boxes , I got a basket case HA114 to a stage were you could almost pump up tyres with it and they`re the leakiest things hohner made.
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