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[Howard Jones]

If a claim were made against the school its insurers could try to recover their costs from the person who was actually negligent.  This is called a right of subrogation.  This doesn't often happen in the case of employees*, but for an independent contractor it is more of a possibility, so you need your own PII.  You can't rely on the school picking up the tab for your negligence.

It's a bit of a nonsense in an area where professional negligence is unlikely to cause any measurable loss, but it's probably a case of being caught by a general rule for all contractors.

* There was a case where a surveyor (who had been an employee and therefore didn't have his own PII) was successfully sued because his former employer had gone bust and he was no longer covered by the firm's insurance.

[Chris Brimley]

but it's probably a case of being caught by a general rule for all contractors.

I would expect that to be the situation, too.  However, my earlier point was that I find it unlikely that the other peripatetic teachers are providing this insurance (because if they had been, I'd be surprised if any of them were left!), and therefore a simple approach might be successful.

There's another point here - the response to the (usually politically-imposed) need for swingeing cuts from Local Authorities has inevitably resulted in all outside contractors being given the chop, irrespective of the benefits they are giving, and just as in the private sector, imposing unreasonable and impossible requirements on contractors may be seen by some managers as a legal and painless way of doing this.  So the 'Do you really mean this?' approach may serve to heighten understanding of the actual effect of the new requirements.

[Chris Ryall]

  N.U.T?

[Daddy Long Les]

Having been responsible for a school's finances, I wonder if this is an auditor looking for something to say. I've certainly known auditors who would go looking for things to report, rather than keep telling a governing body that all was well - and who would go outside their remit and knowledge to do so.

Certainly, in my school, a peripatetic music teacher employed on anything resembling a regular basis would be covered by the school's insurances for the time he/she was actually in the school, with or without a contract. It's a different matter for contractors - builders, electricians etc - who would have to have (and show) their own cover. Still, if the cost isn't too much, perhaps it's prudent to have your own cover, even if it is frustrating that bureaucracy interferes with situations which have been thought satisfactory for years.

Qualifying as grumpy old man!

Well said!!

[Daddy Long Les]

Spot on, Roger!

He said that if the MU are offering PI cover for £55 I should "bite their hand off".

And I would bite their other hand off, DLL, but are they actually doing so?  I have heard that figure mentioned, but only in relation to what it costs them, not what they charge members, however this may be apocryphal rather than reliable.

Or is it £55 in addition to your membership costs of £177pa ?

Yes it's £177 for the MU membership plus £55 extra to another company for the PI cover.  The MU give you £10million PL cover plus £2000 musical instrument cover plus a load of other smaller benefits.  Like most people, I hate insurance but at least this way it doesn't feel like completely "dead" money.

[Newmoon]

Les,

We have access to a teachers and tutors policy that normally works out to about £50 a year.

Its not a direct insurance through us, but i wont take any commission (favor to melnet as it were)

If you're interested i'll have a look at the wording and let you know the limits?

Joe

[Daddy Long Les]

Thank you for the kind offer but I joined the MU yesterday and went with their link to PI insurance.  Perhaps next year....?

[Newmoon]

Not a problem! Let us know, although if you ca make use of the MU services its generally worth the money

The only problem i have us that i on;y have use for the PL, and its expensive for just that benefit

Joe

[Howard Jones]

Joe, from the insurer's side of the fence could you please explain what sort of professional negligence a musicians PII would cover?  It's been baffling me.

[Chris Ryall]

Joe, from the insurer's side of the fence could you please explain what sort of professional negligence a musicians PII would cover?  It's been baffling me.

See below 

[Daddy Long Les]

Joe, from the insurer's side of the fence could you please explain what sort of professional negligence a musicians PII would cover?  It's been baffling me.

See below 

I was told it was in case I taught someone a G chord and it was an E chord etc.!!!!! They call it "errors and omissions".  This is fairly unlikely as I've been teaching in schools since 1974!!!!!

[Theo]

There is always the danger that you might infect some nice clean pure classical student with folkiness!   

[Howard Jones]

OK, but

I was told it was in case I taught someone a G chord and it was an E chord etc.!!!!! They call it "errors and omissions". 
[/quote]

It's difficult to see what damages might be awarded.  Oh well, more business for the lawyers.  And insurers, of course.  I wonder how many successful claims there have been on musicians' PI policies? 

[Chris Ryall]

.. then it "should" be cheap!  Every opportunity for people like Newmoon to negotiate it as an economical "add-on" to their (excellent) more generic mucical policies.

I've had "public liability" as part of my home insurance for years. Mainly to cover eg a tree falling on neighbor's car, chimney pot through their roof, or my son smashing a cricket ball in to a large plate window. Came essentially free with buildings/content cover. 

I did once claim on someone elses when their dog (not on a lead) suddenly ran in front of my car at close range. It paid out for a new radiator grill and a bit of panel beating. Dog got away with a limb fracture

[Chris Brimley]

Yes, I'm with you, Howard - is this really necessary? Are we in danger of allowing those who want to 'invent things that cost money' to have their way?  I'd like to know what percentage of peripatetic music teachers have actually said to the Ed Auth that they carry such insurance - the Ed Auth should respond to such a request, if approached.

I'm not talking about public liability insurance - I accept that's necessary, though the premiums deserve to be pretty low.

[Newmoon]

Oh i agree entirely! The PI insurance is something we don't really have any interest in - IMO (which i will make clear may or may not be shared by the Newmoon Company as a whole)  the whole PII for the "creative arts" is entirely unnecessary. No insurance company in their right mind would ever pay a claim on the insurance because the evidence is never clear (if it were to come into contention).

Sadly its just more red tape as per usual sadly, because someone somewhere heard a rumor that someones dogs, uncles, brothers cousin might claim for it!

FYI - PL insurance for individuals with us is £21 for £1,000,000.00 of cover.

[Daddy Long Les]

Oh i agree entirely! The PI insurance is something we don't really have any interest in - IMO (which i will make clear may or may not be shared by the Newmoon Company as a whole)  the whole PII for the "creative arts" is entirely unnecessary. No insurance company in their right mind would ever pay a claim on the insurance because the evidence is never clear (if it were to come into contention).

Sadly its just more red tape as per usual sadly, because someone somewhere heard a rumor that someones dogs, uncles, brothers cousin might claim for it!

FYI - PL insurance for individuals with us is £21 for £1,000,000.00 of cover.

That's incredibly cheap.  If you need PL cover you won't beat this!!