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[Rog]

I have a habit of increasing tempo while I play a tune. Sometimes this is desirable but often it isn't.

Any tips on how to end a tune roughly at the same tempo as I start it?

A few things I've tried:
recording/listening to detect the problem;
tap foot;
use a metronome - this tends to fix the tempo and alert me to phrases where I speed up - but I can't use a metronome during performance;
try not to rush the tune, but this is where nerves play a part in causing a speed up esp if performing (in publc or to a camera);

Any tips?

Thanks
Roger

[Anahata]

Being aware of the problem is a vital first step, and everything you've tried should help.

Here's a suggestion: practice playing a tune slower than you are used to, and doing it often enough so you get used to it at the slower tempo. Then when you start at your previous normal tempo, you'll want to slow down to the speed you are familiar with, which will counteract the tendency to speed up.

If you can follow the logic of that, it might be worth a try.

[Chris Ryall]

but I can't use a metronome during performance;

One celebrated melodeonista used to .. playing with Nigel Eaton (AFAIR about the time of their "panic in the cafe" album). I have to say the "electronic beat box" didn't add anything for me. The duo were/are both incredibly rhythmic, and that combination made me realise that there's more to musical precision than microsecond accuracy. btw I'd say 1.metronome + 2.practice, but Anahata's scheme is probably better. 

[Ray Langton]

Quite a few tunes have a built in accelerator somewhere in there, often in the B music, in runs down the scale, or bits that you find tricky. Try and identify these in each tune and work to deliberately stop sliding down the slippery slope. Above all relaxation and confidence in knowing the tune properly are the keys to keeping speed steady. Alternatively play in a band for morris with six other melodeon players, assorted string players and percussionists who are all 'over eager' and be the one in charge of keeping the speed steady!

[Chris Brimley]

Being aware of the problem is a vital first step, and everything you've tried should help.

I agree, Anahata. 

I find that the root cause is usually that heady mixture of nerves and enthusiasm, and it is so important to keep concentrating your mind calmly on the overall effect rather than the individual notes.  A kind of out-of-body experience, really - imagine yourself as controlling the overall effect, and being in the audience, both at the same time. 

Also, I would add that this is something that happens when you've just about learned the tune - and when you've finally learnt it, you're going to be OK.

On the question of speeding up in a band, I have a little bee in my bonnet here:  It's so easy when you find this problem to criticise others in the band, because you've noticed bits where someone else speeds up, and not notice the other bits where they've noticed you speeding up!  But surely the true answer is to recognise that this happens in most bands, and to devise a strategy to deal with it.  And the simple answer here is real-time communication.  So if you're the band rhythm leader (and it's often not sorted out whether that's the case or not) and you've found that the tune is going frenetically fast, you lean back (or lean your head back, or something), and then, because you've pre-planned this situation, everybody else knows you want to slow down.  Then you can gradually do so, and everyone will hopefully follow.

In most bands, everybody wants to fit in with the other members, and this should therefore work.  However, sometimes, other band members may not agree with you.  Then you have a different, and much more difficult problem to resolve, and one needs to consider the awful possibility that maybe the others are right!

The other point is that waltzes (and some hornpipes) slow down, rather than speeding up.  If someone can suggest a psychological reason as to why that might be, I'd be interested to know what it is.

[george garside]

 The reason   a tune is being played is part and parcel of keeping a steady (or?? 'correct) tempo.   Also who/ how many are playing it can have a bearing on the matter.

AS some tunes can legitimately be played at quite varied tempos it is vital , particularly if pracicing/playing alone, to decide on the tunes function for that occasion  and try to keep a proper tempo for what you ;have in mind.  Without this 'discipline the tune can go all over the place.

Take scotland the brave as a simple example - to accompany a singer - as a pipe march - gay gordons - reel.  = 4 quite different tempos .  assuming playing at home to get the song accompanyment version something like ok try singing it as yhou play it ( if you can't sing  & play at same time sing it in your head so to speak).  The pipe march speed can be jusdged by either marching round the room! or sitting and keeping time with both feet i.e. marching on the spot sort of thing. - remember  men  once had to march miles to music like that so keep th;e tempo with that in mind.

The gay gordons tempo and the reel tempo  are more difficult to practice alone and are much easier with dancers doing their stuff.  Play to the feet of the best dancer in the hall, morris side or whatever.

The point has  rightly been made By Chris about having a 'band rhythm leader'  .  This can of course be the bandleader or the timekeeping function can be delegated eg to a drummer or other fairly loud percussionist.  The band leader will stick with this rhythm ( if not all is lost!)  and everybody else should stick like glue to the band leader.  This is where keeping time with feet comes in very useful  - a quick glance around the band  should reveal that EVERYBODIES feet are going up a
and down in strict unison - if not all is about to go down the pan!

I personally see it as the band leaders job , be it ceilidh, old tyme, ballroom,  morris or whatever type of dancing, to set  and maintain the appropriate tempo and for the drum or whatever to pick this up  and stick firmly with it.  i.e no freelansing by anybody.  That way its always the bandleaders fault if it goes wrong!

It also means that the tempo can if necessary be ( slightly) varied to suite the ability, boisterousness or whatever of dancers.  eg whilst I am very much a strict tempo man I will sometimes considerablyspeed up the last time (or 2)  through the circassian circle at the end of an evening if the dancers are a lively lot.  I do however give the band a nod if I decide so to do.

For those not yet playing 'in public' try playing along with CD's of the type of music you want to play or better still  try to play with 2 or 3 others  and sort it out between you.

Playing in large sessions is somewhat different  and its sometimes difficult to follow/hear the person who started a tune so all you can do is try to keep with your immediate neighbours.  This leads to a sort of 'chinese whispers' situation   with at least 3 speeds in different partss of the room!    This can sometimes be minimised in a lead session if everybody know what sort of tempo  is intended  eg not just ,say, Athol Highlanders, but Athol Highlanders as a pipe march!
george

[Rob2Hook]

All good advice so far...  In addition, there are a few tricks that can be applied.  I like to include an ornament in a phrase such that it becomes noticeably more difficult to play if the speed increases too much.  Why is it that there are so often triplet phrases in a B part where the band race along?  If you're setting the pace for a band then playing these triplets a little slower than strict tempo and very staccato is easier for the rest to hear.  With Hornpipes (Border Morris) I like to stomp in time to the music, so if I can keep up, so can the dancers.  Waltzes - well, if you chose your dance partner you will appreciate the tempo slowing!

Rob.

[Sage Herb]

Quite a few tunes have a built in accelerator somewhere in there, often in the B music, in runs down the scale, or bits that you find tricky. Try and identify these in each tune and work to deliberately stop sliding down the slippery slope.

My experience is exactly Ray's. Try to identify the characteristics of the passages where you speed up. All Ray's examples are prime candidates, but the problem might not even be long enough to call a passage, and could be just a moment where you habitually 'lean into' the next bar. After years of playing I still have to take a hard listen to myself. Band situations are something else, but I'm fortunate enough to have the services of the wonderful Alice Jones on piano - she doesn't allow any of the rest of us to shift from the rock solid.

Best wishes
Steve

[Chris Brimley]

Yes, I'm also fortunate in my dance band to have a superbly steady piano and bass (which makes playing box with them really enjoyable), and I notice they tend to take the initial rhythm from me (specifically, from my four bars solo intro).

George, I think I agree with just about everything you've said there, but I'd just like to put the point of view of a bass player, in a very different band that I play in, where the natural leader's rhythm is less consistent (and nothing wrong with that, that's what she and the band want it to be like!)  The tricky function (indeed the main skill) of the accompanist is to play the tempo solidly where required, but also to be prepared to change it subtly to stick with the flow and feel of the song.  And at the same time, the leader is still picking up tempo cues from the rhythm section.  This is where my bonnet bee comes in - the answer can only be real-time communication between band members - a two-way process.

It's not easy recording (non-live), because if you're over-dubbing, you can really only use click tracks to overcome the lack of real-time communication between band members.  And that's when the cracks start to emerge!

[Chris Brimley]

Talking about sessions, I remember starting a well-known tune in a large festival marquee session, and after a couple of times through the tune, I found the other side of the tent was now about two bars ahead of me.  I just quietly stopped playing, so that it wasn't too embarrassing.  It was just down to the impossibility of communication.

[Lester]

I notice they tend to take the initial rhythm from me (specifically, from my four bars solo intro).

By far the most difficult part of learning to play in my band was getting the intro speed right.

[Chris Brimley]

Which of course is why it's important for the experienced dance musician, not usually the 'rhythm' section, to adopt that initial role, as I think you are indeed saying, Lester?

[Theo]

Lots of good advice here.

Just one small but important point about tapping the foot.  In reels and hornpipes  avoid tapping 4 times in a bar, this is a sure way to accelerate.  Tapping 2 beats per bar helps get the right emphasis for a good grounded pulse.

[Stiamh]

As well as the built-in accelerator passages mentioned by Ray, it is easy to crank the tempo up a notch when you change from one part of a tune to another, or get back to the start - this is a danger area for me anyway.

Some people love to trot out, somewhat glibly I feel, zen-like assertions that "the space between the notes is more important than the notes themselves", etc. A cliché, and absurd at face value, but it might help you see or feel the flow of a tune differently. In dance music, I think it's a case of every note being in its right place, which is all about establishing the correct rhythm for the piece and settling into it. Giving the tune a bit of room to breathe. Years ago it suddenly dawned on me, very forcefully, that the best musicians are not just playing the melody beautifully but also stating - that is, smacking the listener about the head with - the rhythm of a tune. (It amazed me to realize to what extent I had been failing to register the blows!) Well, we have to do the same.

On the "Joe Cooley tapes" page that has been linked to in these forums, Cathie Whitesides writes that Joe "told me that what was actually important in music was 'the sunshine between the notes'.” I like that image - suggests cheerfulness and warmth rather than mere empty space.

All that said, a wee bit of speed creep, esp. in ensemble playing, is not something to worry about unduly. I'd rather listen to a lively musician gain a few bps over the course of a set of tunes than a dull one religiously sticking to a mental or actual metronome.   

[george garside]

for some strange reason I find it much easier to keep to an even tempo when playng without dancers if i keep my eyes shut.  I can only surmise that disconecting the visual input from the brain leaves it with more capacity to accurately process the   aural input

george-

[TomB]

Metronomes are handy (borrowed from another thread)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq61sM_tyck

[Gary P Chapin]

Quite a few tunes have a built in accelerator somewhere in there, often in the B music, in runs down the scale, or bits that you find tricky.

I play a tune in which, if I play across the rows, I speed up, but if I play along one row, I'm right on tempo.

[oggiesnr]

Previous thread on this subject http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,9365.0.html

I'm still doing the exercises, now at 140 bpm!

Steve

[boxer]

if you want to keep steady time, try playing the tune without bass accompaniment (as many B/C players do) and (when practicing) play slowly and stress regular beats in the tune as heavily as you can.  If you're playing English tunes, stressing the first and fourth (for jigs) or first and fifth (in 4/4 tunes) notes of the bar seems to work best.  The slight but regular pause required to build up the increased pressure or vacuum that produces the stress keeps the pace steady automatically.  After a while you can speed up and reduce the stress but still keep good time. 

The hard bit is learning to reconcile this technique with using the basses.

[george garside]

Practicing steady speed playing without the bass is a very good point indeed.   To me, the  left hand thumpers should not be the ruling body but should be used , if desired,to add an additional layer of rhythm and/or harmony ( depending on the sytem played) to that that is inherent in the way the tune itself is being played.i.e. the rhythm MUST be in the way the tune is played as if it is not no efforts on the bass will  improve it.

Following on from the point made by Boxer    playing at a steady tempo is easier if a little gap is left between treble notes,  (and of course bass if used) i.e get a bit of air between fingers & buttons,  play staccato or whatever you want to call it.   Playing 'lagato' by accident i.e. running notes into each other is often the cause of ever increasing speed as there is no rhythm by which to judge the tempo!  For what its worth I reccomend playing 'staccato' to be used as the default method  even on aires  and  waltzes  with 'lagato' only being used when the player feels that a particular part of a particular tune will benefit from it. in a nutshell 'staccato' for most things and 'lagato' only as a very concious choice.

george