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Author Topic: Benefit of low notes?  (Read 9462 times)

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AlexCJones

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Benefit of low notes?
« on: November 06, 2012, 03:58:24 AM »

I just recently bought a nice antique 2-row wood-grill Hohner.  (I'll post a photo some time in the makes and models section).  It tap-dances enough to need re-padding, but was only $170, so it's in good shape for that price.

Anyway, instead of having accidentals by the low end of the keyboard, it has low notes.  It is almost like the diagram shown for A/D low notes http://forum.melodeon.net/files/site/AD21low.gif, except is actually has a low G and a low D.

I am thinking of having those low notes replaced with accidentals when I take it to the shop for re-padding.  It does not seem like there is a need for those low notes.  Most jigs, reel, waltzes, rags, etc do not seem to be written for instruments that do have that extra range.  I think I would find a leading tone for the minor key (in this case and A# for the B minor), more useful than low notes.

Can anyone think of a good reason why I should keep the low notes?
Does anyone having melodeon with the low notes find them useful?

THanks.

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AirTime

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Re: Benefit of low notes?
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2012, 04:23:27 AM »

I like low notes - they can add a rich depth to some tunes. I'll submit Forrest's exquisite version of The Sherborne Waltz as an example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaZMt87ye6o&feature=relmfu

BTW: Love the look of your vintage 3 row Hohner with the anchors - could you post a photo of that?
« Last Edit: November 06, 2012, 04:30:04 AM by AirTime »
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Sage Herb

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Re: Benefit of low notes?
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2012, 08:40:31 AM »


 I think I would find a leading tone for the minor key (in this case and A# for the B minor), more useful than low notes.

Can anyone think of a good reason why I should keep the low notes?
Does anyone having melodeon with the low notes find them useful?

THanks.

Surely the leading note for Bm is A, rather than A# (unless you want harmonic minor which isn't too common in the sorts of music mentioned)? On the question of the value of low notes, one might take a different view depending on the absolute pitch of the box. On low-pitched boxes (say A/D or G/C) you are more likely to be playing in the upper octave and therefore not need the low notes. On high-pitched boxes (D/G) you're more likely to be playing off button 3 and therefore use the low notes.
Cheers, Steve
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Benefit of low notes?
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2012, 08:49:29 AM »

My 2 pen'th ...
.    Advantages    Disadvantages
  Low notes   Extend diatonic tune
downwards, bass runs
   no 'off scale' notes
eg can't play C maj  :P
no harmonic minor
'Accidentals' Harmonic minor,
Euro tunes,  Blues  8)
'the Dark Side'  >:E
   
  See  below!  :|glug
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george garside

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Re: Benefit of low notes?
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2012, 12:23:09 PM »

to me there is a lot to be said for low notes  and my prefered Dg set up on the chinmost buttons is G row  G/C  & B/E.  On the D row D/G &F#/B.   However in an ideal world I would also want an F nat on the G row and perhaps a G# on the D row.  The Fnat is the only 'must' to enable the C part of the Bluebell Polka to be played.

At the moment I have 4th button do on my Lilly  with the standard accidentals on the chinmost buttons and B/E & F#B on the respective 2nd buttons.  On a lilly I had abaout 15 years ago I went for 5th button do to keep the accidentals and have the low notes as above. Am  thinking about doing same again

advantages - continues the pattern of repeated notes  enabling playing in octaves at low end.  Provides the wherewithall to play many tunes in either mid or low octave.  Disadvantages  none  other than the remote chance of being without a required squeeky note

might not suit everybody but I like it!

( the other thing that I think improves the lilly no end is to tape off the big bass reeds)
george
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Adam-T

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Re: Benefit of low notes?
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2012, 12:32:39 PM »

I`m one of those who rarely uses the accidentals on D/G and on a 19 button box like my BP-II I`ll end up with replacing them with low notes as I keep hitting the damn things being used to helper rows and boxes with a lot more buttons , I`m finding that there are a lot more tunes which require the low notes there (to be played "Normally" than the accidentals.. I`ll see how I get on with the 21 button Lilly when I get one, may have the 4th button start done.

Why does the Lilly improve with the bass reeds taped George, I thought precious little bass came out of the things to begin with
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Strigulino

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Re: Benefit of low notes?
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2012, 12:57:51 PM »

I have low notes on both of my boxes, but the Liliput has the benefit of a short accidentals row.

I was in two minds but I'm glad I went for the low notes in the end.  There are some tunes you just can't do justice to without them.  That said, part of the reason why I bought the Liliput was that there was some tunes I just couldn't play without accidentals.  So unless you have a 2.5 row with low notes you're going to find some problems one way or the other, whatever you choose to do. 
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Steve C.

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Re: Benefit of low notes?
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2012, 02:59:10 PM »

It might be expensive, but Michael will sometimes give a good price for a major reed re-org.

IF he's willing and you can afford it, consider low notes AND accidentals, essentially removing the two highest (dusty end) reeds, which are really the one ones you will never use.
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Strigulino

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Re: Benefit of low notes?
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2012, 03:03:22 PM »

I do wonder why they don't put accidentals in the dusty end as standard.  It's an ideal place for accidentals.  Who wants to play notes only dogs and dolphins can appreciate?   :D
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deltasalmon

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Re: Benefit of low notes?
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2012, 03:11:06 PM »

I never played an accordion with the accidentals at the chin end. I have an old 2 row G/C with accidentals up there but it was rather unplayable so I sent it away to get fixed up or "fettled" (is this the right instance to use that word??) before I could really try it.

How is reaching for the accidentals? it seems like it would be pretty unintuitive keeping them all the way on the end like that but then again there are a few aspects of the melodeon that are unintuitive.
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Gary P Chapin

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Re: Benefit of low notes?
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2012, 03:15:40 PM »

How is reaching for the accidentals?  ... but then again there are a few aspects of the melodeon that are unintuitive.
I would say, playing for 14 years, it has only just become intuitive for me to reach that chin-accidental.  Possibly this is because I've got a 2.5 row that I tend to go to for anything needing heavy accidental work, but I have been working hard to bring up the skills.
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Benefit of low notes?
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2012, 03:28:15 PM »

I'm about to take my Lilly up to Theo for an overhaul, and conversion to 4th button start + accs.  This was massively the most popular choice here when we voted last year.

Helper rows are better - but 4BS+accs is pretty good! I like those low notes too and when Lilly was my main box I would dab in B and C from the other end.  I still often run a G scale onto ... D.. E on the Oakwood.  (Its lowest right end note is F)

Benefit?   They sound good!  ;)
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Adam-T

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Re: Benefit of low notes?
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2012, 03:33:00 PM »

I'm about to take my Lilly up to Theo for an overhaul

Don`t You mean Dols' Lilly Chris  :P
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forrest

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Re: Benefit of low notes?
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2012, 03:33:23 PM »

I`ll end up with replacing them with low notes as I keep hitting the damn things........

That's why they are called 'accidentals' ;) I suppose if one is playing tunes frequently using these notes, then one will become quite adept at finding them at the proper moment. I have often opted for low notes myself, but find that I am increasingly wishing for those magic notes that transform the mood (as Chris has pointed out). To my mind, the best scenario, for a melodeon, at least, is to have a helper row, where you can find these missing links where they are not part of a row structured for a particular scale.
 
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Benefit of low notes?
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2012, 03:37:04 PM »

Don`t You mean Dols' Lilly Chris  :P

.. It was - but mysteriously is now back in my car boot following the Ghent trip.
   Dols is however accompanying up to Newcastle, and probably also to Theo's emporium

   .. may I deduce from this exchange that you ... have no daughters?  :|glug
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Adam-T

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Re: Benefit of low notes?
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2012, 03:44:03 PM »

Sorry, was being facetious (I didn`t think you were a 2 lilly family)  ;D Lets hope she likes the setup for when she wants it back again  :|||: ..... 
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911377brian

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Re: Benefit of low notes?
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2012, 04:05:28 PM »

Anyone casting an eye over my queries since joining Melnet will realise that my knowledge of musical theory is nil.....I have Hohner 1040's in D and A, and will hopefully soon have one in G. The A box has become my favourite because of its full rich tone, and hopefully a G box will be even richer??? My question; where one rows ever built in a lower register than G ?
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Adam-T

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Re: Benefit of low notes?
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2012, 04:12:06 PM »

Not that I know of and when you get one you`ll see why, the lowest note in pitch is almost like a bass reed on the L stop of a HA114 or HA113 . it won `t be as deep on a 1040 of course which has two sets of middle reeds .. never seen a A one (they`re usually in C, G and D with C being the most common) , sounds like a nice find !
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Re: Benefit of low notes?
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2012, 04:32:09 PM »

Thanks entirely to Microbot Adam, he is uncanily adept at finding and the fettling the old ones...
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Sage Herb

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Re: Benefit of low notes?
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2012, 06:42:34 PM »

Anyone casting an eye over my queries since joining Melnet will realise that my knowledge of musical theory is nil.....I have Hohner 1040's in D and A, and will hopefully soon have one in G. The A box has become my favourite because of its full rich tone, and hopefully a G box will be even richer??? My question; where one rows ever built in a lower register than G ?

My mate and co-band member Vic Gammon has a 1040 in F, which I think is original (I'll ask him and report back). It's too loud to be of much practical use, though.

Cheers
Steve
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