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EastAnglianTed

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Re: Why the Box?
« Reply #100 on: February 18, 2013, 11:35:01 AM »

> What is it about the box that attracted you in the first instance?
I played Piano and Melodeon from age 4/5. It got to a point where the Piano bored me- everyone played a piano- and the Meldeon was 'different'. Portability was also important, I loved the fact I could take mine over to play with my Grandad as a child.
> Imagine that you were denied access to your box for some reason,
   which instrument do you think might substitute to satisfy that
   inevitable yearning? (if indeed any).
N/A
> Did you start playing in your childhood or later?
Childhood
> If you started in your childhood, did your parents choose the box for you
   or was it your own choice?
It was my own choice, as I showed interest in playing my Grandad's Erica.
> If it was your own choice, can you remember why?
I showed interest in playing my Grandad's Erica
> Were you inspired to play the box by another box player or
   by someone playing an instrument other than the box?
I was inspired mainly due to my Grandad, my 2 uncles and my cousin.

Dunno if this threads still alive but it came up in my recent posts  :P
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Melodeon Marodeur

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Re: Why the Box?
« Reply #101 on: April 24, 2015, 12:12:44 AM »

Hello,
It might be a little bit late for me to add my answer, but since my girlfriend is probably tired of hearing me ranting about the box the whole evening (after playing it tirelessly for two hours instead of helping in the kitchen) I feel a need to express myself here.

> What is it about the box that attracted you in the first instance?
I was just a kid when I first saw an accordionist (playing a piano-accordion, not a melodeon) at some celebration. I was completely amazed, both by the sound and also by how it looked. It is something very demonstrative in the way these instruments are played; the fingers leaping over the treble-keys and jumping around on the basses; the bellows folding and unfolding like a big colorful sun-feather.

> Imagine that you were denied access to your box for some reason,
 which instrument do you think might substitute to satisfy that
  inevitable yearning? (if indeed any).
Once my thumb strap broke on a travel. It could have been horrible, but I always carry a harmonica with me, and it takes the edge off the abstinence. 

> Did you start playing in your childhood or later?
I started playing the melodeon when I was 28. Now I am 31, and the years grow shorter.

> If it was your own choice, can you remember why?
My first box was an east German one row, which was very good looking but played awfully. I got it cheaply at an auction, and had great problems before getting my HA1114.

> Were you inspired to play the box by another box player or
   by someone playing an instrument other than the box?
This has always been a big problem for me. I do not have any box players around me. When I started out one guitar-playing friend thought me the basics. He did by incident learn the layout and became a harmonica-player in the process. My girlfriend is playing both pipes and flutes, and helps me when in trouble.
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Re: Why the Box?
« Reply #102 on: April 24, 2015, 09:54:07 AM »

A zombie thread!

But very interesting, having read through the last few pages.

On the question of instruments for children. When my son was in nursery the school had a visit from a brass quartet. They played the 'superman' theme and he was hooked, he decided he wanted to play the trumpet.  My father had been a cornet player with the Grenadiers, so there was a family tradition too. However, no way was I shelling out for a trumpet for a 5 year old. He was told that if he could pass the most basic recorder exam he could learn trumpet.

He took up recorder and was really not good at it. On one occasion his teacher wrote in his report that he had no affinity with the instrument and should give it up.  I went to see the headteacher who had the attitude that if David wanted to do the lessons, and we were happy with it, then David should do the lessons. We persevered. Eventually, in the last month of year 4, just before moving to middle school, David took and passed the most basic exam - below Grade 1.  My father turned up with a second hand trumpet - David 'played' it for 4 hours, on a baking hot day, with all the windows open. I went and apologised to the neighbours.

David learned trumpet through middle school, progressing through the school's three orchestras. Then he moved to secondary school where he didn't gel with the teacher in the new school and gave it up after a year. I was quite disappointed, but it was his decision, and as he has Asperger's Syndrome if he didn't get on with the teacher there was little point in continuing.

However, when my father died a couple of years ago his widow was looking to get rid of his cornet and trumpet, so David was asked if he wanted them.  As a result he has taken up the cornet and recorder again (and the guitar) and now plays with our morris side. He has an understanding of music that I envy, he understands the mathematical relationships, which I am struggling to begin to understand.

He didn't play for about 10 years, but he still retained that knowledge (yes, his playing was very rusty and he had to work on embrouchure). I never had that, I didn't start to learn an instrument until my late 50s.

If you know how to play an instrument you have the choice of whether you play or not, if you don't know, then you don't have that choice. It was worth letting him continue with the recorder when he was advised to give it up, but I wouldn't (couldn't) have forced him to play anything if he didn't want to.

If a child has the basic understanding of how music works from learning something like a recorder or 'tin' whistle, then they can progress to other instruments.

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Re: Why the Box?
« Reply #103 on: April 24, 2015, 11:40:17 AM »

I second that, out of my own experience. This is the same reason for why I started playing late in life. I was forced to play the recorder in elementary school, and since I did not like it, I did not develop. When I asked to learn accordion or clarinet, i was told I did not have the "musicality" needed. Some ten years ago I stumbled upon a piano-accordion, that a friend left at my place after a party. I felt so bad about this, that I decided to learn how to play it. After a couple of days I where already playing easy songs with bass accompaniment. I still get kind of a shiver down my back when people speak about being "gifted" or "musical", when it is really more a question of endurance. Anybody who wishes to to something should be encouraged. I realize I might sound a bit agitated. Somehow I understand that starting to play a bit later in life might make your relation to playing music more strong, reflected, and that this makes one very happy when learning.
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Clive Williams

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Re: Why the Box?
« Reply #104 on: April 24, 2015, 12:29:51 PM »

From my experience, and that of my 2 boys, I think it's virtually impossible to learn recorder in school if the whole class is being taught, as is usually the case. It's quite useful for understanding the basics of music though. One-on-one lessons, or small class sizes, is a different matter of course.

I was 'taught' recorder at school, and got nowhere with it, but I did learn the basics of music theory, reading music, rhythms and so on. It was only about 15 or so years later that I picked one up and tried playing along with records... and in no time at all, was *way* better than I ever was at school. Of course, it helped that I knew what notes were, and roughly how to play each note, even if I'd never successfully put them together before.

Theo

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Re: Why the Box?
« Reply #105 on: April 24, 2015, 12:57:27 PM »


I was 'taught' recorder at school, and got nowhere with it, but I did learn the basics of music theory, reading music, rhythms and so on.

Of course you don't need an instrument at all for that, you can do it all with singing, and that does work well with a class sized group.
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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Sebastian

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Re: Why the Box?
« Reply #106 on: April 24, 2015, 06:14:22 PM »

you can do it all with singing
I don't think so. When you try to communicate with musicians about details of music you will often find that singers have a less clear understandig of musical structures than instrumentalists.

(That is my personal experience, and it was corroborated by some composers and conductors with whom I spoke.)
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Theo

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Re: Why the Box?
« Reply #107 on: April 24, 2015, 07:23:22 PM »

I'm talking about enthusing children with music making, which is not the same thing as getting adults well educated about mushy at a pro or semi pro level.
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Theo Gibb - Gateshead UK

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Roger Howard

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Re: Why the Box?
« Reply #108 on: April 24, 2015, 09:01:27 PM »

.. I still get kind of a shiver down my back when people speak about being "gifted" or "musical", when it is really more a question of endurance.

There is such a thing as natural talent though. If you don't have at least some musical talent, all the endurance in the world
won't get you too far.

Absolutely ... And I speak as one with virtually no musical talent, whose endurance has taken him only a very little way, but who is full of admiration for those who do.

Roger
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Re: Why the Box?
« Reply #109 on: April 24, 2015, 09:46:42 PM »

Oh, I did of course not intend to say that the people who play well are not talented or gifted. I am strongly affected by these thoughts about music belonging to anybody that is interested, rather than the "inspired individual". And I am at times expressing myself clumsily. It should be added that I play quite poorly and that it is very important for me to have role models who play well.
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Sebastian

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Re: Why the Box?
« Reply #110 on: April 24, 2015, 11:55:50 PM »

I'm talking about enthusing children with music making, which is not the same thing as getting adults well educated about mushy at a pro or semi pro level.
I'm sorry. I thought you were referrimg to Clive William's excellent posting, where he wrote:

I was 'taught' recorder at school, and got nowhere with it, but I did learn the basics of music theory, reading music, rhythms and so on.
I don't have the impression Clive was overly enthusiated with music making at school. But I do think --and not I alone-- that seeing what your hand does during playing music helps to develop basic understandings of musical structures in the infant mind.
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Sebastian

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Re: Why the Box?
« Reply #111 on: April 25, 2015, 12:25:55 AM »

It should be added that I play quite poorly and that it is very important for me to have role models who play well.
That's a nice thought.

You seem to like music which differs a bit from the mainstream melodeon music. I would be interested to hear some tunes you like and how you play them. I know that I myself am never tillfreds med mina upptagningar och därför anser dem bara som principskisser. Den här tanken har hjälpt mig att lägga några av dem upp på nätet. ;)
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Malcolm Clapp

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Re: Why the Box?
« Reply #112 on: April 25, 2015, 04:08:47 AM »

I'm talking about enthusing children with music making, which is not the same thing as getting adults well educated about mushy at a pro or semi pro level.

Sorry, but where exactly do overcooked peas come into it?

Stiamh, I think Theo was (intentionally or subconsciously) referring to the horrors of school recorder lessons at UK schools in the 1950s and '60s. "Peas pudding hot; peas pudding cold; peas pudding in the pot, nine days old" was the first tune in the school recorder tutor, and indelibly inscribed into the memory of a whole generation (and their long suffering parents).

I assume this cruel and unnatural method of torture never occurred Quebec....
« Last Edit: April 25, 2015, 04:38:53 AM by Malcolm Clapp »
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Chris Ryall

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Re: Why the Box?
« Reply #113 on: April 25, 2015, 08:38:20 AM »

I don't have the impression Clive was overly enthusiated with music making at school. But I do think --and not I alone-- that seeing what your hand does during playing music helps to develop basic understandings of musical structures in the infant mind.

Reminds me of my own journey. Grandma had 4 kids, three of whom were enrolled for formal guitar or piano lessons as juniors. None plays anything as adults.

I was #4, took up guitar in my teens (and a mouth organ) and arranged own tuition, moving through concertina to … well, no one moves on from melodeon!  ;). I've also sung a lot and run a couple of folk clubs.

It's not a great advert for a strict didactic approach to learning music, is it? I think it should come from the child. My own three only got musical instrument lessons … when they asked for them.
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Re: Why the Box?
« Reply #114 on: April 25, 2015, 09:35:42 AM »

Interesting.

Son David has a good understanding of music theory, which was started off in recorder (small groups, essentially private lessons in the school) and trumpet lessons (one-to-one or two-to-one) at school . However, I know that his knowledge is well beyond what he learned in school. Speaking to him last night on the way to 'band practice' he explained that he built on what he learned in school by internet reading later on. He was motivated to continue with music, and, unlike me at his age, he knew enough theory to carry on. Despite my father being a professional musician, I always felt that music was a hidden code that I would never crack.

David's younger brother also had recorder and guitar lessons. He never really got motivated by them, and gave up in middle school. He has never been motivated to pick up an instrument again. As others have said, it has a lot to do with the teacher, and the motivation in the group.

A few weeks ago I said to a friend in her early 40s that I wish that I had taken the melodeon up 20 or even 40 years ago, and that I felt that I had missed out by not playing an instrument. She had never played an instrument before, but within a week of our conversation had taken up concertina - and is making good progress.
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